View Full Version : 44Mag.com charges $99.99/ea for 17-rnd 9mm M&P magazines...WTF!
HardLuck682
08-13-13, 14:43
like the titles says, the most recent gouging i have found today is 44mag.com
I was on a wait list for M&P magazines. When i contemplated buying 6 magazines in Nov 2012, they were $24/ea. They have not been in stock since January. Now today i get an email with link to product, where they are charging $99/magazine.
Sad thing is, they started with 56, at the time of typing they have 2 in stock, the screenshot will show six. So they are being bought for this price.
I mostly want to put this out to this outlet. Take it for how you want.http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/clyde0682/MampPMag2.jpg
I briefly had an M&P9 Full size, and the primary reason I sold it was lack of available magazines. About a month ago I saw a dealer at a gun show selling them for $39.95 a piece, and with a decent amount in stock. I almost cried on the spot.
SpeedRacer
08-13-13, 15:14
Consumers are still high from the panic. Sad really. For the price of two mags you just paid half of a new M&P which comes with two mags.
Well, to be fair, they have 9mm C.O.R.E. slide assemblies for only $349 in both 4.5" and 5"
You just spoke out of turn because you have no idea what their cost per unit was, nor does it really matter. The historical value of the magazines is a basis for nothing. That being said...
Last November you didn't need any magazines at $24 a pop. Now you don't want them at $99 a pop. How does your failure to recognize what you need when you it translate into price gouging?
The guy who own's 44mag.com has clearly demonstrated that he is a genius and that the laws of supply and demand are still relevant because he sold out of M&P magazines at $99 a copy.
WickedWillis
08-13-13, 15:37
Jesus I guess that hit a nerve with you. I highly doubt the guy on 44mag.com is paying out the nose for these magazines. All signs point to an instance of price gouging.
You just spoke out of turn because you have no idea what their cost per unit was, nor does it really matter. The historical value of the magazines is a basis for nothing. That being said...
Last November you didn't need any magazines at $24 a pop. Now you don't want them at $99 a pop. How does your failure to recognize what you need when you it translate into price gouging?
The guy who own's 44mag.com has clearly demonstrated that he is a genius and that the laws of supply and demand are still relevant because he sold out of M&P magazines at $99 a copy.
Jesus I guess that hit a nerve with you. I highly doubt the guy on 44mag.com is paying out the nose for these magazines. All signs point to an instance of price gouging.
No such thing as price gouging for pistol magazines...
HardLuck682
08-13-13, 15:52
You just spoke out of turn because you have no idea what their cost per unit was, nor does it really matter. The historical value of the magazines is a basis for nothing. That being said...
Last November you didn't need any magazines at $24 a pop. Now you don't want them at $99 a pop. How does your failure to recognize what you need when you it translate into price gouging?
The guy who own's 44mag.com has clearly demonstrated that he is a genius and that the laws of supply and demand are still relevant because he sold out of M&P magazines at $99 a copy.
On Smith&Wesson's site, they are out of stock, but pricing at $41/mag
I HIGHLY doubt S&W charges their dealers $75+/mag. While i agree that if you can make a buck, by all means do, but really, $100/mag?
I did want the mags then, but didn't have the extra money with the holidays and shit, not that i owe you or anyone an explanation.
furthermore, if all you offer to the conversation is condescending trolling, i kindly ask you to go and play hide and go finger yourself.
have a great day
WickedWillis
08-13-13, 15:55
It seems you have some ties to the website selling these, there is no other defense for the things you've said.
No such thing as price gouging for pistol magazines...
It seems you have some ties to the website selling these, there is no other defense for the things you've said.
My defense is simple and well founded. You can read up on it here (http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp).
wait... when I got the email alerting these were in stock the price was $47, NOT $99.
what's going on??? :confused:
SpeedRacer
08-13-13, 16:23
For the record I have zero issue with and am not offended in the least by vendors selling their wares at any price they can sell them at. That's capitalism at it's finest and part of the foundation of this great nation.
I will, however, wholeheartedly point and laugh at the people that pay ridiculous prices for things.
It seems you have some ties to the website selling these, there is no other defense for the things you've said.
I think that his point is that it cannot be price gouging in the legal sense due to a lack of: 1) period of emergency, 2) item essential to survival, and 3) established price ceiling.
I'm now adding 44 mag to the list of vendors that can lick my bum along with CTD and Bud's
DanjojoUSMC
08-13-13, 17:22
I'm now adding 44 mag to the list of vendors that can lick my bum along with CTD and Bud's
Same here....
Being legally OK, doesn't make it OK.
Sort of like the people who buy expensive items to use on a trip or vacation only to do returns when they get back home. Free rentals for them, hurts many in the long run, shows poor character to most.
Early on in marketing you learn to make it at least appear as though the company cares about people/society.
Looks like someone is following in CTD footsteps to each their own but I'll avoid doing business with them now.
SpeedRacer
08-13-13, 17:59
To play devil's advocate, consider it's a company that has bills to pay to keep the doors open. A business that sells gun magazines, which obviously have been hard to get a hold of for at least 6 months (all magazines, not just M&P). With no inventory there is no profit. They have to make money where they can.
Some companies, CTD being a good example, do blatantly exploit situations for increased profit. But I have several friends in the retail gun biz that barely made it through the panic. It seems like they were all making money hand over fist, when the exact opposite was true. After a quick inventory clearing in the beginning, they had nothing to sell and could barely keep the payroll taken care of. When they did finally get some stock in, they had to help offset the loss of income by selling at current market prices. And why wouldn't they? For example if 44mag sold the M&P mags for $35, chances are a majority of them would be snagged up by guys looking to turn around and sell them for $100.
Not saying that's exactly what happened, just offering a different viewpoint.
free market, suck it!
be an adult and make sound decisions for the future. current market rate of some trivial item shouldn't engender resentment.
bitch when eggs, and heating oil soar
I'm all about a free market, anybody can choose to price an item however high they want. I also can choose to tell them to go **** themselves, so 44mag..... GFYS
Im happy to see that somebody got them in finally so that is a good a sign atleast. But they sold out at that price? LMAO
ETA - interesting the see the slide assemblies available. I was not aware that that was going to happen. I wish SW would sell just complete frames too.
44mag burned me once, and I've been hesitant to deal business with them since. They were selling Korean G19 mags with the guarantee that they'll work and drop free, or otherwise he'll replace them.
I bought a couple, and had a mag that was made oversized. I sanded it a bit, but it still wouldn't drop free, so I contacted him to get a replacement. His reply? "Oh it's sanded so no replacement." He later edited the page for the mags to change the policy.
Seemed like some bait & switch shit to me.
44mag burned me once, and I've been hesitant to deal business with them since. They were selling Korean G19 mags with the guarantee that they'll work and drop free, or otherwise he'll replace them.
I bought a couple, and had a mag that was made oversized. I sanded it a bit, but it still wouldn't drop free, so I contacted him to get a replacement. His reply? "Oh it's sanded so no replacement." He later edited the page for the mags to change the policy.
Seemed like some bait & switch shit to me.
You sanded them, soooo...
At that price I would sell all of mine.
Yes, I agree they are completely free to price them at any price that they want. But I choose my free market right to not buy from them again, even for products that I consider fairly priced. And that is coming from a former customer of this company.
Midway now gets all of my business because they have been nothing but fair during all of the craziness.
Anyone bothered to reach out to 44mag directly and request a comment?
Anyone bothered to reach out to 44mag directly and request a comment?
I shot them email but haven't heard back yet.
For the record I have zero issue with and am not offended in the least by vendors selling their wares at any price they can sell them at. That's capitalism at it's finest and part of the foundation of this great nation.
I will, however, wholeheartedly point and laugh at the people that pay ridiculous prices for things.
This. $99 a mag is not price gouging. It is merely setting a price that the market dictates. At the same time with a limited supply he needs to charge a price that will cover his bills.
They are smart enough to sell them for $99.99 if people are dumb enough to buy them for $99.99. By the way I have some AR 15s to sell for $3000.00 each if I could find some buyers:bad::bad::bad:
This. $99 a mag is not price gouging. It is merely setting a price that the market dictates. At the same time with a limited supply he needs to charge a price that will cover his bills.
Exactly... at $99, I as a "producer" might be motivated to put a few of my M&P mags up for sale, thereby increasing the supply...
Exactly... at $99, I as a "producer" might be motivated to put a few of my M&P mags up for sale, thereby increasing the supply...
Somebody that gets it.
kantstudien
08-13-13, 23:07
Good for 44mag, as long as dumbasses want to pay I hope he charges $129 next time. Once people stop paying, then the prices will come down on everything. Simple as that.
@dc202 - Twice you used the word fair. I'd love to hear your definition of the word.
@Skintop911 - What would be the point of reaching out to them? I'm not trying to spool you up but if I owned the company and you reached out to question my business decision, I guarantee the response wouldn't be polite. The only thing that company owes anyone is a thank you after they process your credit card.
44mag burned me once, and I've been hesitant to deal business with them since. They were selling Korean G19 mags with the guarantee that they'll work and drop free, or otherwise he'll replace them.
I bought a couple, and had a mag that was made oversized. I sanded it a bit, but it still wouldn't drop free, so I contacted him to get a replacement. His reply? "Oh it's sanded so no replacement." He later edited the page for the mags to change the policy.
Seemed like some bait & switch shit to me.
now, wait a minute...you permanently and visibly altered a product using abrasive friction and you call "bait and switch"?
and you did that on a cheap asian knock off of an austrian product and you still think you're the victim?
if you do ANYTHING to alter a product and then expect to return it, you've screwed yourself.
you can't wear shoes outside the house and return, can't take tags off clothes and return, can't stipple a pistol grip and return.
i haven't ever seen a mag at this site that i'm wiling to pay for, so i just shake my head in disappointment and click through to the vendors who price reasonably. and my patience is eventually rewarded.
HardLuck682
08-13-13, 23:10
Anyone bothered to reach out to 44mag directly and request a comment?
I have. Right before posting this thread. I am yet to receive word back from them. I may post it, if some of you are interested.
@Skintop911 - What would be the point of reaching out to them? I'm not trying to spool you up but if I owned the company and you reached out to question my business decision, I guarantee the response wouldn't be polite. The only thing that company owes anyone is a thank you after they process your credit card.
I like to talk to people and find out where they're coming from, rather than simply making assumptions and talking about them. Most will respond as they are approached, with tact and reasonableness being returned. Even if you don't agree with the reasoning, you have better info to act on. That's all.
I had wondered what the price was... Not suprised.
By the time that I had seen the email they where sold out.
@dc202 - Twice you used the word fair. I'd love to hear your definition of the word.
@Skintop911 - What would be the point of reaching out to them? I'm not trying to spool you up but if I owned the company and you reached out to question my business decision, I guarantee the response wouldn't be polite. The only thing that company owes anyone is a thank you after they process your credit card.
Fair is selling something at a markup that one normally sees in a given line of product. If you want to sell something that is many multiples the usual markup to take advantage of a given situation, then that is your right, as is my right to buy elsewhere because I personally do not like your business practices and choose no longer to do business with you.
Midway, grabagun, Grant, and others chose not to do what CTD and a few other online stores chose to do and those businesses will get my money in the future. Not very complicated and the end of my story.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-14-13, 00:40
Interesting. 44mag has been my go to (usually for my 20rd NHMTG Mags) for years. Although, I never sanded my mags and tried to return them :rolleyes:
Nothing more frightening than the use of the word "fair" in relation to the free market.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-14-13, 07:28
Nothing more frightening than the use of the word "fair" in relation to the free market.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/lionfair_zps54d3353a.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/lionfair_zps54d3353a.jpg.html)
Jesus I guess that hit a nerve with you. I highly doubt the guy on 44mag.com is paying out the nose for these magazines. All signs point to an instance of price gouging.
While this is a difficult subject for a dealer to step into, there are several things you must consider.
Normally, 44Mag receives 200 M&P mags a month. He has not received any mags since November 2012 (as S&W has not been shipping any). All through 2012, 44Mag paid $20 per mag and sold them for $25 apiece after CC fees and shipping fees, he made $3.25 per mag. Assuming he sold his allotment of 200 mags per month, he would have made $650 a month. Taking this number times 11 months, he would have made $7150 for 2012.
It is now August. He has not received a S&W M&P mag for 9 months! This means that he is out a considerable amount of money. How does he make up for this loss of revenue? He prices the magazines he got in (which was most likely no more than 50) at $100 per. Assuming he was still paying $20 per mag, he now made $4,000. Still a long way away from his $7150 from last year though.
When dealers are used to getting a certain number of mags per month and then that stops, they have to make up for that lost revenue. In the end, it is up to you, the consumer to adjust his pricing. Think the price is too high? Don't buy them. He will eventually come down.
Since 44Mag sold out in what looks to be 1 day, my guess is that people didn't consider the $100 price tag out of line.
Free market wins again!
C4
I think that his point is that it cannot be price gouging in the legal sense due to a lack of: 1) period of emergency, 2) item essential to survival, and 3) established price ceiling.
Correct.
C4
A year ago, I was listening to a lecture on the subject of "fairness." The author basically stated that inside all humans, we have need/desire to see "fairness." This fairness "gene" seems to stem from reciprocal altruism (which basically means that if I do something for you, you will do something for me).
When we see big kids picking on little kids, we have this immediate urge to stop it. When we see someone being mean or rude to an elderly person, we have this urge to stop it.
This concept also carries over into money. Many people view the wealthy as needing to "pay their fair share." I only make $30K a year so why is it fair that they make $500,000 a year???
So in this instance, the OP wants M&P mags at a "fair price." The problem is that there is no such animal. I would argue that we do not WANT fairness in our lives, especially when it comes from the Govt. ;)
I know it is a hard pill to swallow, but think about the consequences of some entity policing all the "unfairness" that we see everyday.
C4
Simple economics. It was clearly the price the market will bear. Technically if people are willing to pay that price, and there are not others for less, it is the fair market value.
If you don't like don't buy them. If others don't like it and don't buy them either the price will go down.
While this is a difficult subject for a dealer to step into, there are several things you must consider.
Normally, 44Mag receives 200 M&P mags a month. He has not received any mags since November 2012 (as S&W has not been shipping any). All through 2012, 44Mag paid $20 per mag and sold them for $25 apiece after CC fees and shipping fees, he made $3.25 per mag. Assuming he sold his allotment of 200 mags per month, he would have made $650 a month. Taking this number times 11 months, he would have made $7150 for 2012.
It is now August. He has not received a S&W M&P mag for 9 months! This means that he is out a considerable amount of money. How does he make up for this loss of revenue? He prices the magazines he got in (which was most likely no more than 50) at $100 per. Assuming he was still paying $20 per mag, he now made $4,000. Still a long way away from his $7150 from last year though.
When dealers are used to getting a certain number of mags per month and then that stops, they have to make up for that lost revenue. In the end, it is up to you, the consumer to adjust his pricing. Think the price is too high? Don't buy them. He will eventually come down.
Since 44Mag sold out in what looks to be 1 day, my guess is that people didn't consider the $100 price tag out of line.
Free market wins again!
C4
Excellent post! Provides clarity into the kinda decisions people must make to run a successful business.
Simple economics. It was clearly the price the market will bear. Technically if people are willing to pay that price, and there are not others for less, it is the fair market value.
If you don't like don't buy them. If others don't like it and don't buy them either the price will go down.
Agree. The market has spoken and $99 isn't too much to pay for an M&P 9mm mag.
I would personally like to buy a Porsche 911 turbo for $50k! The market has dictated that they are more than double that price. I think I am going to fire off an angry e-mail to Porsche about their prices! :D
C4
Excellent post! Provides clarity into the kinda decisions people must make to run a successful business.
Thanks. I had been warning people (on this forum) since Spring of 2012 that bad things were coming. Little did I know that we would get Obama AND Sandy Hook all at the same time (perfect storm). Following my own advice, I stocked up on guns, mags and ammo. I also had PO's written since early 2012 for delivery all through 2013. So I had lots of inventory and was in a very good position.
Many of my fellow dealers were not in my same position and ran out of inventory. No inventory means no money. No money means that they cannot pay their bills and thusly shut down. So I never question what another dealer is selling products for (as I simply do not know their financial position).
C4
Fair is selling something at a markup that one normally sees in a given line of product.
Complete BS!
There is no such animal as a fair price. There is only the price. You either pay it or you don't. You may want to pick up a copy of this book (http://www.amazon.com/Economics-Dummies-Sean-Masaki-Flynn/dp/0470879483/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376487533&sr=8-1&keywords=economics+for+dummies) and educate yourself.
More than likely, this thread also substantiates the theory that there is no such thing as bad advertising. After 1000+ views, I'd bet that there are at least 100 people that didn't know that 44mag.com even existed and have subsequently bookmarked the website. I'd also bet that a handful of them WILL make a purchase in the near future... :big_boss:
1slow01Z71
08-14-13, 09:24
While I agree with your stance mk18, a bit of tact will go a long way. Take notes on the way grant responded to this thread.
free market, suck it!
be an adult and make sound decisions for the future. current market rate of some trivial item shouldn't engender resentment.
bitch when eggs, and heating oil soar
This. If your over 20 years old, grow up and get a handle on the priorities of life.
- Be careful what you wish for...for it won't be long till Uncle Samuel sets the price on all things you dream of.
evilblackrifle
08-14-13, 09:40
I would personally like to buy a Porsche 911 turbo for $50k! The market has dictated that they are more than double that price. I think I am going to fire off an angry e-mail to Porsche about their prices! :DPerfect!
The sense of entitlement, even on gun forums, has amazed me (and some of these people will complain about the entitlement attitudes of others such as Obama voters). A whole lot of butthurt from guys who don't understand simple economics.
Personally, I wouldn't pay $100 for a M&P mag, but if there are people willing to do so, how can I be upset with dealers who price it at that level???
Agree. The market has spoken and $99 isn't too much to pay for an M&P 9mm mag.
Almost enough to make me sell a few mags I've got and buy a glock :p
I was also on the email list waiting for these to come back in stock. When I saw the email yesterday I headed for the 44mag.com website and nearly fell out of my chair when I saw the $100 price tag. At that time I think the site said there were 22 in stock. We can debate whether this is price gouging or unethical til the cows come home. At the end of the day, however, I will NOT pay that price for a pistol magazine, and it's doubtful that I'll ever do business with 44mag.com again. But as people are clearly paying that price for them, it's not like the loss of my business is going to hurt them.
Jesus I guess that hit a nerve with you. I highly doubt the guy on 44mag.com is paying out the nose for these magazines. All signs point to an instance of price gouging.
Limited supply, demand sets price. Obviously, if he set his price accordingly, he would always have 1 in stock, or sellout magazines right as he gets a new shipment. Quit bitching about prices. If the price is too high, don't buy the product. If you knew that WW3 was going to be happening in your neighborhood tomorrow, and someone was willing to sell you 5 magazines at $1000 a piece, and you KNEW you would need those magazines by tomorrow, you would pay because of your demand for magazines, future knowledge of a demand, and the limited supply.
Here is something to consider. Just say, you have an m&p and need to go to a match or defend yourself, but you, for some reason, only have 1 or 2 mags. Since someone charges $100 per mag, that will limit the number of people buying them, enabling people who REALLY want/need them to obtain them. Hence the value goes up - supply and demand.
This is a GOOD thing. Sure CTD charged ridiculous prices for ammo, but if I bought a gun and wanted to defend myself, I sure as hell would be thankful they had ammo in stock. Personally, I had ammo so I did not have to pay for getting to the game late.
To be honest, I'm surprised nobody has used a 3d printer to make 9mm mag bodies baseplates and followers... grant has springs. Maybe not as many people have them as I thought.
I for one am glad he raised the price to $99 as that means most of the people that bought them actually needed them, as opposed to someone buying them ALL just to resell them.
I for one am glad he raised the price to $99 as that means most of the people that bought them actually needed them, as opposed to someone buying them ALL just to resell them.
This. One of the things that used to drive me crazy is that the consumer would buy products at normal MAP prices and then turn around and sell it for HUNDREDS of dollars more than I.
It seems there is somewhat of a double standard going on here. When consumers buy low and sell high, they are praised. When dealers do it, there are 10 page threads with their name on it.
Is that "fair?" ;)
C4
Is that "fair?" ;)
C4
No, but it's common sense... :eek:
Crow Hunter
08-14-13, 15:45
For all of those that want "fair" pricing please, please, please sell me all the equity holdings that you have in your 401k for what you paid for them in November of last year. I will definitely give you a "fair" and "reasonable" profit margin on them of 3%...:rolleyes:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0585&FundIntExt=INT#tab=1
I could retire right now.:D
theblackknight
08-14-13, 17:07
I'm not sure if people don't understand economics, or they only want it when it's best for them.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Alaskapopo
08-15-13, 01:11
Simple solution. Don't buy them if you think the price is too high.
Pat
PatrioticDisorder
08-15-13, 06:45
Thanks. I had been warning people (on this forum) since Spring of 2012 that bad things were coming. Little did I know that we would get Obama AND Sandy Hook all at the same time (perfect storm). Following my own advice, I stocked up on guns, mags and ammo. I also had PO's written since early 2012 for delivery all through 2013. So I had lots of inventory and was in a very good position.
Many of my fellow dealers were not in my same position and ran out of inventory. No inventory means no money. No money means that they cannot pay their bills and thusly shut down. So I never question what another dealer is selling products for (as I simply do not know their financial position).
C4
Regarding the M&P mag prices, the storm has been even worse than this. Obama & Sandy Hook coupled with many LEA's reportedly switching to M&Ps and 9mm making a come back among LEA's. So we have what really is an artificially high demand with an artificially low supply. This is not normal supply and demand but it is what it is and while I saw the storm coming last July I went from being a medical student to a resident physician, so I went from dirt poor to kinda poor. I switched to M&Ps last August as well, bought a handful of extra mags, but not nearly what I wanted or had cash for, yet I'm not complaining at this point.
The fact 44mag actually recieved mags & there are reports of S&W store FINALLY filling back orders from December, along with S&W reps who've told me that for the past several months extra mags have shipped anywhere for sale & mag production has increased along with filling many of the LEA orders I think is a good sign of things to come.
Anyone paying $100 for magazine especially at this point is a damn fool, but that's their problem. There are othe options out there, Bud's had used mags recently for $20 a mag & new M&P mags could be had from places like gunbroker of one is that desperate. I think I'll ride the storm out and I predict mags available at reasonable prices in the near future.
While this is a difficult subject for a dealer to step into, there are several things you must consider.
Normally, 44Mag receives 200 M&P mags a month. He has not received any mags since November 2012 (as S&W has not been shipping any). All through 2012, 44Mag paid $20 per mag and sold them for $25 apiece after CC fees and shipping fees, he made $3.25 per mag. Assuming he sold his allotment of 200 mags per month, he would have made $650 a month. Taking this number times 11 months, he would have made $7150 for 2012.
It is now August. He has not received a S&W M&P mag for 9 months! This means that he is out a considerable amount of money. How does he make up for this loss of revenue? He prices the magazines he got in (which was most likely no more than 50) at $100 per. Assuming he was still paying $20 per mag, he now made $4,000. Still a long way away from his $7150 from last year though.
When dealers are used to getting a certain number of mags per month and then that stops, they have to make up for that lost revenue. In the end, it is up to you, the consumer to adjust his pricing. Think the price is too high? Don't buy them. He will eventually come down.
Since 44Mag sold out in what looks to be 1 day, my guess is that people didn't consider the $100 price tag out of line.
Free market wins again!
C4
And you didn't even touch on overhead.
We're in a similar boat. We have two types of product, physical and service based.
Demand for physical product went sky high, while supply dropped to nothing. We can't sell what we don't have, and yet our fixed costs remain the same.
Meanwhile our service demand dropped by half in the same time period. Same situation, the fixed costs remain. Since these are done on hourly rates, the cost per hour is going to skyrocket. Likewise, the cost per unit of physical goods sold is going to increase. This isn't to gouge the consumer, it is JUST TO KEEP THE DOORS OPEN.
I can't make any assumptions on 44mag's fixed costs, but a large portion of the revenue he expected would have gone to paying the bills. Now he'[s taking it out of cash or borrowing, or his margins on other products have shrunk significantly.
The books have to balance. You need to have a certain amount of liquidity to operate. You're going to see a lot of shops close their doors by the time this is over.
And you didn't even touch on overhead.
We're in a similar boat. We have two types of product, physical and service based.
Demand for physical product went sky high, while supply dropped to nothing. We can't sell what we don't have, and yet our fixed costs remain the same.
Meanwhile our service demand dropped by half in the same time period. Same situation, the fixed costs remain. Since these are done on hourly rates, the cost per hour is going to skyrocket. Likewise, the cost per unit of physical goods sold is going to increase. This isn't to gouge the consumer, it is JUST TO KEEP THE DOORS OPEN.
I can't make any assumptions on 44mag's fixed costs, but a large portion of the revenue he expected would have gone to paying the bills. Now he'[s taking it out of cash or borrowing, or his margins on other products have shrunk significantly.
The books have to balance. You need to have a certain amount of liquidity to operate. You're going to see a lot of shops close their doors by the time this is over.
Right. Insurance, rent, employees, etc are all huge expenses.
C4
RogerinTPA
08-15-13, 09:53
Thanks. I had been warning people (on this forum) since Spring of 2012 that bad things were coming. Little did I know that we would get Obama AND Sandy Hook all at the same time (perfect storm). Following my own advice, I stocked up on guns, mags and ammo. I also had PO's written since early 2012 for delivery all through 2013. So I had lots of inventory and was in a very good position.
Many of my fellow dealers were not in my same position and ran out of inventory. No inventory means no money. No money means that they cannot pay their bills and thusly shut down. So I never question what another dealer is selling products for (as I simply do not know their financial position).
C4
Agreed. Many of us saw what was coming back pre 08 elections, then again prior to the 2012 elections. Didn't think I'd need anymore, but when Feinstein came on the radar, with her AWB bill, I tripled down on the preps. If someone didn't see this coming, they've been in a coma. As always, fail to plan, plan to fail.
I've bought a lot of stuff from 44mag, never had a bad experience.
You buy a gun with hard to get mags... You pay hard to get prices.
PatrioticDisorder
08-15-13, 10:04
Agreed. Many of us saw what was coming back pre 08 elections, then again prior to the 2012 elections. Didn't think I'd need anymore, but when Feinstein came on the radar, with her AWB bill, I tripled down on the preps. If someone didn't see this coming, they've been in a coma. As always, fail to plan, plan to fail.
Agree, the problem is, some of us weren't in situations where we were able to prepare for this BS and therein lies the problem.
I would personally like to buy a Porsche 911 turbo for $50k! The market has dictated that they are more than double that price. I think I am going to fire off an angry e-mail to Porsche about their prices! :D
C4
Just buy used. 2001-2002 911 turbos are in the $40-50k range...:D
Just buy used. 2001-2002 911 turbos are in the $40-50k range...:D
Yep. In fact, I have a bunch of USED M&P mags that I will gladly sell for $50 a pop. :D
C4
Agree, the problem is, some of us weren't in situations where we were able to prepare for this BS and therein lies the problem.
No, therein lies life. You aren't entitled to have the same things everyone has. Neither are you owed a chance to prep to the same level everyone did. Luck, karma, fate, chaos theory whatever you call it, crap happens.
At the end of the day you live in one of the greatest countries in the world and have plenty of other options for hand guns. Pay the price for mags, wait and hope they get cheaper or switch to a cheaper platform.
PatrioticDisorder
08-15-13, 10:28
No, therein lies life. You aren't entitled to have the same things everyone has. Neither are you owed a chance to prep to the same level everyone did. Luck, karma, fate, chaos theory whatever you call it, crap happens.
At the end of the day you live in one of the greatest countries in the world and have plenty of other options for hand guns. Pay the price for mags, wait and hope they get cheaper or switch to a cheaper platform.
I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I agree completely with you, when I referred to the "problem" it was my explanation of why some of us weren't prepared for the political shit storm that hit. I was painfully aware of it. Never once did I say I was entitled to anything, I've also been and will continue to patiently wait for mags to become available.
RogerinTPA
08-15-13, 10:29
No, therein lies life. You aren't entitled to have the same things everyone has. Neither are you owed a chance to prep to the same level everyone did. Luck, karma, fate, chaos theory whatever you call it, crap happens.
At the end of the day you live in one of the greatest countries in the world and have plenty of other options for hand guns. Pay the price for mags, wait and hope they get cheaper or switch to a cheaper platform.
Well said.
To PatrioticDisorder, I didn't buy my mags in bulk, what I did was over a couple of years, bought 2 or 3 M&P mags when making a purchase on anything gun or ammo related. It was a slow build up. Much like food preps. Buy a little extra each trip and over time, you will have a significant amount.
Crow Hunter
08-15-13, 10:44
To PatrioticDisorder, I didn't buy my mags in bulk, what I did was over a couple of years, bought 2 or 3 M&P mags when making a purchase on anything gun or ammo related. It was a slow build up. Much like food preps. Buy a little extra each trip and over time, you will have a significant amount.
Yep, this is what I had been doing since September 2004.:D
I finally quit a few years ago when I pulled a box off the shelf while looking for something else and realized it was completely full of G19 mags. So I counted them and realized I had 60 some odd mags in that box.:eek:
Oops.
Mauser KAR98K
08-15-13, 10:50
To hell with the mags, I want a 5" CORE slide. Had no idea Smith was selling them individually.
Anyone know where I can get one besides 44mag (they out)?
To hell with the mags, I want a 5" CORE slide. Had no idea Smith was selling them individually.
Anyone know where I can get one besides 44mag (they out)?
Just as an FYI, I contacted S&W to verify that they are selling CORE slides and they advised that they are NOT. So these slides are take offs.
C4
Establishments have every right to charge what they want for products, especially when demand is high. I also reserve the right to not do business with stores that over price their product. I for one remember which stores engage in this and will take my continued business elsewhere which is due to financial necessity for me. I also shoot Glocks so my magazine problem is non existent.
HardLuck682
08-15-13, 12:37
Just as an FYI, I contacted S&W to verify that they are selling CORE slides and they advised that they are NOT. So these slides are take offs.
C4
If thats the case, it leads to wonder if these were factory S&W mags in the first place at all.
If thats the case, it leads to wonder if these were factory S&W mags in the first place at all.
The mags are.
C4
SpeedRacer
08-15-13, 12:45
Just as an FYI, I contacted S&W to verify that they are selling CORE slides and they advised that they are NOT. So these slides are take offs.
C4
So they buy some CORE pistols for say $500, part out the mags, slide and frame and make a couple hundred bucks more than they would selling the pistol directly, all while satisfying multiple markets. Sounds pretty smart to me.
like the titles says, the most recent gouging i have found today is 44mag.com
I was on a wait list for M&P magazines. When i contemplated buying 6 magazines in Nov 2012, they were $24/ea. They have not been in stock since January. Now today i get an email with link to product, where they are charging $99/magazine.
Sad thing is, they started with 56, at the time of typing they have 2 in stock, the screenshot will show six. So they are being bought for this price.
I mostly want to put this out to this outlet. Take it for how you want.http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/clyde0682/MampPMag2.jpg
Ok so don't buy it there
Establishments have every right to charge what they want for products, especially when demand is high. I also reserve the right to not do business with stores that over price their product. I for one remember which stores engage in this and will take my continued business elsewhere which is due to financial necessity for me. I also shoot Glocks so my magazine problem is non existent.
and this is how capitalism works =)
So they buy some CORE pistols for say $500, part out the mags, slide and frame and make a couple hundred bucks more than they would selling the pistol directly, all while satisfying multiple markets. Sounds pretty smart to me.
More than likely.
C4
So they buy some CORE pistols for say $500, part out the mags, slide and frame and make a couple hundred bucks more than they would selling the pistol directly, all while satisfying multiple markets. Sounds pretty smart to me.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qiflGyKIcA/Sb_YSDIK9aI/AAAAAAAAE_4/_C8bvBx5ed0/s400/Guiness-Brilliant-1.jpg
People can get butt hurt all they want over the price of the mags but I for one am HAPPY to actually see them for sale for the first time in 9 months. I take it as a positive sign... :D
In the spirit of capitalism, I will gladly sell some of my new M&P9 mags for $105 shipped! I wasn't planning in selling them at all....
What people also need to understand is that sometimes, people just aren't going to sell what they have unless the higher sales prices sufficiently motivate them. It's the free market economy.
Crow Hunter
08-15-13, 14:42
In the spirit of capitalism, I will gladly sell some of my new M&P9 mags for $105 shipped! I wasn't planning in selling them at all....
What people also need to understand is that sometimes, people just aren't going to sell what they have unless the higher sales prices sufficiently motivate them. It's the free market economy.
I noticed he also had Glock 17 magazines for $49.99 and he was out of stock of G19 magazines....
Hmmm....
If I wasn't such a hoarder and so lazy, I might get rid of all those new G19 mags I have been dumping in that box for years.:jester:
I am thinking really hard about "cashing in" on the next big panic and just using revolvers and bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns.
Mauser KAR98K
08-15-13, 15:01
Just as an FYI, I contacted S&W to verify that they are selling CORE slides and they advised that they are NOT. So these slides are take offs.
C4
Well Sum'bitch. I want a CORE 5", but I want one with a thumb safety as I'd just have it for a house and comp. gun.
There are M&P's on Gunbroker right now for $500 /w three 17 round magazines. Looks like a good arbitrage opportunity for someone hurting for magazines.
Well Sum'bitch. I want a CORE 5", but I want one with a thumb safety as I'd just have it for a house and comp. gun.
They do not make such an animal.
C4
In the spirit of capitalism, I will gladly sell some of my new M&P9 mags for $105 shipped! I wasn't planning in selling them at all....
What people also need to understand is that sometimes, people just aren't going to sell what they have unless the higher sales prices sufficiently motivate them. It's the free market economy.
You greeeeeeedy bastige!!! How dare you try to gouge consumers? :)
Ill sell mine for $90 shipped.
Ok you guys convinced me. I will never use the F word on this forum again. it is complete BS. LOL.
Averageman
08-16-13, 06:50
I'm setting back P-Mags, ammo and odds and ends anticipating the next great drama that leads us down the panic path again.
Buying guns in anticipation of future grandkids and new family memebers.
I see this as a cycle, if someone makes money off of it, all the better.
You greeeeeeedy bastige!!! How dare you try to gouge consumers? :)
Ill sell mine for $90 shipped.
You greeeeeeedy bastige!!! How dare you try to gouge consumers? :)
Ill sell mine for $89 shipped...
:D
You greeeeeeedy bastige!!! How dare you try to gouge consumers? :)
Ill sell mine for $89 shipped
I can go all the way down to $86/mag and still keep bread in my rug rats mouths. It will be tough, but we can make it work. PM me for more details! Hurry, they won't last long!!! :D
It appears that someone just sold 2 used M&P mags for around $65 each on the EE. Pricing started at $75, then after no takers, price was dropped to $65.
Free market at work...
Since we are talking about S&W mags, we just got in M&P 40 15rd mags and 12rd M&P22 mags! :D
Both are price "fairly." ;)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=39494
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=42413
C4
I'll sell my NIB M&P 9 FS w/ 2-17 round mags for $500 shipped! That's like getting the pistol for $300.
Alpha Sierra
08-17-13, 12:15
No such thing as price gouging for pistol magazines...
So such thing as price gouging for ANYTHING.
If I have gasoline and I want $10 bucks a freaking gallon, you pay my price or you go elsewhere.
I'll sell my NIB M&P 9 FS w/ 2-17 round mags for $500 shipped! That's like getting the pistol for $300.
LOL...
Dos Cylindros
08-17-13, 21:22
Since we are talking about S&W mags, we just got in M&P 40 15rd mags and 12rd M&P22 mags! :D
Both are price "fairly." ;)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=39494
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=42413
C4
Grant,
You are THE man! Order just placed for two to add to my collection for my current duty gun.
Don Robison
08-17-13, 21:34
So they buy some CORE pistols for say $500, part out the mags, slide and frame and make a couple hundred bucks more than they would selling the pistol directly, all while satisfying multiple markets. Sounds pretty smart to me.
That is what they were doing with some 14" 590s about 8-9 years ago. I bought one of their "kits" and built it up on a 500 receiver.
Midwayusa.com has been getting them in stock intermittently over the weekend.
Limit of 2 @33.99 ea.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/967807
They go pretty quick, but are back "in stock" later on the in the day. Sign up for e-mail notifications.
Midwayusa.com has been getting them in stock intermittently over the weekend.
Limit of 2 @33.99 ea.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/967807
They go pretty quick, but are back "in stock" later on the in the day. Sign up for e-mail notifications.
Thanks for posting this. They're out of stock at the moment but at least I got on the mailing list.
Just a few minutes after I signed up for the mailing list I got an email that they were available so I ordered one. With shipping it came in at just under $40.
$73 shipped for 2
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Midwayusa.com has been getting them in stock intermittently over the weekend.
Limit of 2 @33.99 ea.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/967807
They go pretty quick, but are back "in stock" later on the in the day. Sign up for e-mail notifications.
I ordered 2, my wife ordered 2, my 2-year old son ordered 2, my dog ordered 2....
You get the picture ;)
Suwannee Tim
08-31-13, 15:33
like the titles says, the most recent gouging i have found today is 44mag.com........
In an ideal society Mr. Luck you and some like minded folks could sit on a committee and search for and investigate such anti-social behavior. When you found it you could haul the offenders in before a troika, make your case and then have them shot. I am sure the world would be a much better place. Of course I'm joking. Seriously, do you believe in freedom? Does that include the freedom of individuals to engage in a commercial transaction at an agreed price? If not, do you think prices and profits should be regulated? By the government? If not, why do you care how much 44Mag.com is getting for magazines? You sir are a busybody. You should mind your own business. Let other folks mind theirs. I personally spend so much time and effort minding my business that I have no time left over to mind other people's business. That way my business gets plenty of my attention.
Just acquired some .40/357 M&P mags from G&R Tactical, one of our sight sponsors. Good price, good comms, fast ship. They seem to be flowing a little better there than other places.
Inkslinger
08-31-13, 18:34
Glad I checked this thread out. Thanks.
Midwayusa.com has been getting them in stock intermittently over the weekend.
Limit of 2 @33.99 ea.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/967807
They go pretty quick, but are back "in stock" later on the in the day. Sign up for e-mail notifications.
In an ideal society Mr. Luck you and some like minded folks could sit on a committee and search for and investigate such anti-social behavior. When you found it you could haul the offenders in before a troika, make your case and then have them shot. I am sure the world would be a much better place. Of course I'm joking. Seriously, do you believe in freedom? Does that include the freedom of individuals to engage in a commercial transaction at an agreed price? If not, do you think prices and profits should be regulated? By the government? If not, why do you care how much 44Mag.com is getting for magazines? You sir are a busybody. You should mind your own business. Let other folks mind theirs. I personally spend so much time and effort minding my business that I have no time left over to mind other people's business. That way my business gets plenty of my attention.
+1, Couldn't have said better myself. Claim to be Americans (capitalists) crying about "gouging." Shameful.
domestique
09-01-13, 04:05
Not to rub it in..... but the writing was on the wall was a couple years ago when Obama was first elected.
I was buying magazines before I even had the pistols for them. A lot of them were sub $20.00 bucks. I luckily bought a bunch of Glock 20 magazines in Novemeber when Natchesz was selling them for $19.99.
Only adivce, wait it out or pay out the nose.
PatrioticDisorder
09-01-13, 08:06
Just acquired some .40/357 M&P mags from G&R Tactical, one of our sight sponsors. Good price, good comms, fast ship. They seem to be flowing a little better there than other places.
When did G&R have them in stock?
When did G&R have them in stock?
They were on the website a couple weeks ago.
To play devil's advocate, consider it's a company that has bills to pay to keep the doors open. A business that sells gun magazines, which obviously have been hard to get a hold of for at least 6 months (all magazines, not just M&P). With no inventory there is no profit. They have to make money where they can.
Some companies, CTD being a good example, do blatantly exploit situations for increased profit. But I have several friends in the retail gun biz that barely made it through the panic. It seems like they were all making money hand over fist, when the exact opposite was true. After a quick inventory clearing in the beginning, they had nothing to sell and could barely keep the payroll taken care of. When they did finally get some stock in, they had to help offset the loss of income by selling at current market prices. And why wouldn't they? For example if 44mag sold the M&P mags for $35, chances are a majority of them would be snagged up by guys looking to turn around and sell them for $100.
Not saying that's exactly what happened, just offering a different viewpoint.
My LGS went out of business because he couldn't get enough inventory to pay the bills (small operation been around just a few years). If he could have stayed in business by selling whatever he could get at crazy prices, I'd had no problem with that.
Frankly, retailers are free to price their products and we are free to purchase or not. I paid dealer cost for my BCM last summer because there was a bit of a glut. Rest assured prices will be lower again and even higher again.
+1, Couldn't have said better myself. Claim to be Americans (capitalists) crying about "gouging." Shameful.
One does not need to be a cheerleader for capitalism to be an American. Pointing out pricing that seems out of the realm of reasonability hurts no one, least of all the free market you love so much. As you have all pointed out, most in a Piers Morgan-esque fit of bullying, if the market will bear the price, then it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says about it, people will buy, right?
I don't recall anyone suggesting legislation to curb these pricing practices, regulation of any sort.
Knee jerk, reactionary defensiveness reagarding a system that is not being threatened is repugnant and childish.
Infamous361
09-02-13, 03:22
Midwayusa.com has been getting them in stock intermittently over the weekend.
Limit of 2 @33.99 ea.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/967807
They go pretty quick, but are back "in stock" later on the in the day. Sign up for e-mail notifications.
Just ordered two. Thanks for the heads up.
Agreed. Many of us saw what was coming back pre 08 elections, then again prior to the 2012 elections. Didn't think I'd need anymore, but when Feinstein came on the radar, with her AWB bill, I tripled down on the preps. If someone didn't see this coming, they've been in a coma. As always, fail to plan, plan to fail.
Or sell you mags a $99.00 to try to make rent.
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