View Full Version : Gas $3.56 for Regular Unleaded!
CAUTION: WORTHLESS RANTING BELOW
I was watching CBS news a couple of nights ago and they said that U.S. consumption of gas is down. Sounds good right, the law of supply and demand. Less demand should equal lower prices, right? So why am I driving home today and seeing $3.56 posted?!
I'm paying $100 per month more in gas than I was last year. My ammo cost has doubled! Food is more expensive, etc. Did I mention the ammo costs!!! I have reduced my driving by half and my wife nearly as much. And we rarely eat out now (saves gas and food expense). And I know we not alone in doing this, so what else can Americans do???
I remember the American outrage following hurricane Katrina when gas reached $3.00/gallon. We're at a record high in gas prices and we hear nothing. I remember in the 70's during the gas shortages....long lines at the pumps and people siphoning gas out of cars. A couple of weeks ago the independent truckers staged a short-lived protest strike.
So, how much more will Americans tolerate before they riot and/or start to steal gas???? Are we at M4C (and our families) ready for the future? Hmmm...I think I'm going to buy some locking gas caps and buy more ammo!
Gutshot John
04-18-08, 15:15
U.S. consumption is down.
China, India, South Korea and other developing demand is WAY UP.
Global demand is at an all time high...therefore prices are at an all time high.
Yep...it sucks, but look at the bright side. If prices stay up...eventually someone will develop a more cost effective solution.
U.S. consumption is down.
China, India, South Korea and other developing demand is WAY UP.
Global demand is at an all time high...therefore prices are at an all time high.
True, not to mention the euro is at a record high and the dollar at a low. OPEC met recently and decided that oil production is meeting current demand. They blame the weakening US dollar. What would happen if OPEC and other nations (e.g., China) converted their US dollars for (the more stable) euro???
Remember Wall Street and the airline industry following 9/11 attacks? Our economy almost collapsed. Keep in mind that we did not defeat the (former) USSR on the battlefield. Our economy beat up their economy....it was called the arms race.
IMHO, I believe the US economy is under attack and we do not see or understand the danger. I wonder if Muslims are asking "What Would Sun Tzu Do?" :rolleyes:
Gutshot John
04-18-08, 15:25
True, not to mention the Euro is at a record high and the dollar at a low. IMHO, I believe the US economy is under attack and we do not see or understand the danger.
Remember Wall Street and the airline industry following 9/11 attacks? Our economy almost collapsed. Keep in mind that we did not defeat the (former) USSR on the battlefield. Our economy beat up their economy....it was called the arms race.
I'm not sure what qualifies as "under attack." Economics implies competition. Our economy did not "beat up theirs." They simply bankrupted themselves trying to match our spending. That's self-inflicted, the US had little to do with it other than spend.
Our economy almost collapsed after 9/11? I don't think so... not even close. A recession does not equal collapse. We didn't even have deflation.
Cheap Dollar has been a boon for US exports and if it weren't for oil, you'd see significant redutions in the trade deficit as many more companies are looking to manufacture here due to the weak dollar. Manufacturing of heavy capital goods has been going great guns.
Nothing is cut and dry...everything has an up side. I'm not saying people aren't having a hard time...but relative to history...this is only a slight hiccup.
Or as your local economist would say...TANSTAAFL.
[QUOTE=NoBody;152902I'm paying $100 per month more in gas than I was last year. My ammo cost has doubled! Food is more expensive, etc. Did I mention the ammo costs!!! I have reduced my driving by half and my wife nearly as much. And we rarely eat out now (saves gas and food expense). And I know we not alone in doing this, so what else can Americans do???
[/QUOTE]
Yeah tell me about it! Try making aliving in the foodservice industry right now. TOUGH! Ingredient costs up. Packaging costs up. Cheese up 100%. Flour up 100% in only a couple of weeks. Everything that ever thought about getting close to an ear of corn up! Animal feed driving up beef, chicken, pork, eggs, milk. Corn sweeteners up. Oils up. Every week some packer/manufacturer is talking about another 5-7% increase. Business down, down, down. Margins down.
It sucks.
-RD62
Our economy did not "beat up theirs." They simply bankrupted themselves trying to match our spending. That's self-inflicted, the US had little to do with it other than spend.
I think former president Ronald Reagan would disagree with you....as would George Bush Sr. The arms race achieved its objective. Winning a (cold) war without having to directly fight as strategy.
So, what if our economy is under attack by Russia, China, Iran, Venezuel, etc. Are we powerless? Can we continue on our current course without having to make a course change? Hmmm... (NO, THIS IS NOT A OBAMA 'CHANGE' ENDORSEMENT!!!)
Gutshot John
04-18-08, 15:39
I think former president Ronald Reagan would disagree with you....as would George Bush Sr. The arms race achieved its objective. Winning a (cold) war without have to directly fight as strategy.
They are free to disagree (except the dead one) though they have political reasons for doing so. The objective of the arms race was to rearm. There is no historic evidence that Reagan ever intended to spend the USSR into bankruptcy. Sorry.
So, what if our economy is under attack by Russia, China, Iran, Venezuel, etc. Are we powerless? Can we continue on our current course without having to make a course change? Hmmm...
What if? Russia, China, Iran and Venezuela together don't even come close to the size of our economy. Of those China MAY pose a threat, but then to do so would mean economic collapse for them as we are their BIGGEST market. You may remember back in the 1980s (when we were supposedly spending the USSR into bankruptcy) the complaint was that Japan was waging economic war on the US. Far and wide went the cry of the end of the American economy...yadda yadda yadda...and look how well that turned out (hint Japan during the 1990s suffered the worst economic recession in its history outside of the Great Depression, while we enjoyed one of our greatest boons). And Japan DID have an economy that rivaled ours...it was about half as big.
Yes we can continue. Historically nothing has worked as well as free trade and open commerce to guarantee economic/strategic strength. Those nations have antithetical notions to free trade and open commerce. They place themselves at a disadvantage...especially when the price of oil collapses (as it will).
Competition is good for trade, commerce and ultimately your bottom line.
Heavy Metal
04-18-08, 15:51
The same speculators that invested in housing have found the commodities market. It sucks for us in the short run. In the long run, they will do to it what they did to housing.
It was around 3.25 here until it jumped to 3.50 today
TUNNEL RAT 33
04-18-08, 15:59
in New York 89 octane is $ 3.79 and deisel is almost $5.00 a gallon . and its not the summer yet !
I paid $3.49 just last night. As I live in a rural area I have to buy the gas no matter what the price just so I can go to work.
variablebinary
04-18-08, 20:54
These gas prices are bullshit. And dont think prices are going to come down either.
The USA cuts down on gas, OPEC will cut production. This game is rigged
I paid $3.49 just last night. As I live in a rural area I have to buy the gas no matter what the price just so I can go to work.
I hear that! I've consolidated trips and don't drive unless I need to. We're also car pooling at work whenever possible. I'd ride my bike to work, but I live in Fayette-nam....I don't think I'd make it without getting hit by a young trooper in a hurry.
I've kicked around the idea of buying a little Honda Civic to drive instead of my 14 mpg Jeep, but my Jeep is as much of a hobby as my shooting....
I had to fill up my Xterra today since it was payday and ended up with a total expenditure of $57.00 even. I live in a semi-rural area of Oklahoma and Regular Unleaded is $3.999 per gallon.
I have restricted my driving to the drive to and from work on work days and one trip a day on my days off. During the work week if I need to get something done I make myself take care of it on the way to work, at work or coming home which makes errands difficult when I work 11pm to 7am lol.
I used to love showing up to the range in my Toyota Prius... talk about stares. People probably wondering who the hell this Berkely guy is thinking he can come out and shoot.
I sold it though for a premium to drive my 17mpg Ford F250 Diesel. Saves me on tags, interest, insurance, two vehicles depreciating, plastic & rubber aging on the truck, etc. I can't stand paying $4.40 a gallon of diesel, but hell... it's my truck.
You guys are a bunch of cry babies. Diesel is upwards of $4.35 a gallon. My 34 gallon tank needs a $100 fillup. I'm lucky I only have to do it every other week.
SV650Squid
04-19-08, 00:04
This thread reminds me... my motorcycle is on reserve, and I haven't filled up in like 2 weeks of just commuting.
Business_Casual
04-19-08, 12:51
When the Fed talks about adding "liquidity" to the market, what they mean is they are printing dollars. Printing dollars with nothing to back it up but the faith that the dollar is worth something. That is why prices are rising.
M_P
Gutshot John
04-19-08, 13:03
When the Fed talks about adding "liquidity" to the market, what they mean is they are printing dollars. Printing dollars with nothing to back it up but the faith that the dollar is worth something. That is why prices are rising. M_P
The Fed doesn't print dollars. Adding liquidity simply means taking cash out of reserves and putting it in circulation. The cash in question has already been printed. Additionally the Fed simply buys up issued U.S. bonds (debt).
Different concept altogether though you are correct that the more money in circulation, the less it costs to borrow...and the less it is worth. This equals inflation, but at under 4%, currency inflation is not the reason prices are rising.
Gutshot John
04-19-08, 13:42
Anyone drive a diesel? What's the payoff/value?
It seems that diesel is probably cheaper in the long run, but in the short-term it's more vulnerable to sudden, dramatic shifts in price?
I've got a 1 ton GMC with the Duramax diesel. When I bought it, I was comparing it to big block gas motors like the GM 8.1L and the Ford V10. I also assumed that diesel and gas averaged about the same price over the course of a year (diesel is cheaper in the summer but more expensive in the winter). The current prices are just crazy.
Compared to the V10 or a big block V8, the money will even out over time (like 70k to 100k miles) when I did my research about a year ago. The increased efficiency of the diesel will eventually make up for the initial investment. This is the fairest comparison as these are the only gas motors to come close to the diesel in power and torque.
When up against a smaller V8 like the Hemi, 5.4L Ford, or the GM 6.0 you'll never make that money up, especially with the cost of diesel creeping up and staying up. Of course they are in a whole different league power wise, so it's not a fair comparison. Both Ford and GM are coming out with smaller displacement diesels in the next few years, it will be interesting to see how they stack up.
If you need the power of a diesel to tow something heavy, there just is no substitute. They really have no peer, and they are more efficient than a big gas motor. But if you just want a truck to haul stuff and occasionally tow, a 1/2 ton or V8 3/4 ton makes more sense.
Diesel cars really have not caught on in the US. And our regs aren't going to make it easier. The costly new ULSD diesel and tight emission requirements make it tough for a diesel to make financial sense. A diesel is usually thousands more than a gas motor, and with the increased cost of the fuel it's tougher to make that money up. Bonus points are that you can use biodiesel and tell Big Oil to stick it. An eco-type at work uses B100 (100% biodiesel) in his Jetta TDI and gets 35-40 mpg, and none of it comes from an oil company. His fuel is usually at least 50 cents more than dino diesel though. I've seen a lot of car magazines rate the BMW and Audi diesels in Europe as highly as their gas counterparts, which is much different than during the 80's when diesel cars were slugs, even compared to the emasculated gas engines of the time.
Gutshot John
04-19-08, 21:53
So diesel may be worth it... IF you want to invest in a higher-end German diesel?
Does your green buddy at work have to pay for the french fry oil?
Audi makes the most amazing diesels. They won LeMans a few years ago with a diesel, and will be putting a diesel motor in their R8 supercar.
Problem is most of those diesels are way expensive. VW made some of their Jettas, Bugs, Golfs, and Passats with a nice little diesel motor. Those are the ones to get if you are after efficiency.
My buddy buys his B100 from local dealers, he doesn't mix his own. It's spendy, and they are not as convienent as regular gas stations, but they are out there. I won't put it in my $50k truck, but a $5000 used VW would be no problem.
militarymoron
04-19-08, 23:14
these gas prices are out of control. hell, a gallon of gas costs almost as much as a cup of starbuck's coffee!!! :eek:
when i hear people who drink starbucks complain about the price of gas, i tell them that the frap they're drinking costs 6 times more than gas per gallon, and that helps put things into perspective and makes them think twice about their spending habits. needless to say, i don't drink starbucks - that's ammo money, man.
TUNNEL RAT 33
04-20-08, 00:33
89 octane was $ 3.71 at 1:00 pm . 10 hours later $3.85 . what the **** !!!
My girl has a Diesel Jetta, and IMHO it is the way to go. Typically over time, diesel is more stable; as the train/trucking industry helps keep it from fluctuating as much as gas. It has really only been in the past months that it jumped up higher than gas if I remember correctly. I really look forward to it settling out and gas going up above diesel this summer. Really, it should be cheaper as from my understanding, there are not as many steps involved in refining diesel as there is gas. Her car gets somewhere from 42 mpg to 48 mpg; just depending on how it is driven. That combined with the fact that if times got bad, we could fill up at McDonalds in the middle of the night and be GTG, I dig the diesel.
The ultimate economy car.
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/rabbit_diesel_ad.jpg
Something needs to be done. Right Ephing now.
TUNNEL RAT 33
04-20-08, 11:01
deisel in new york is almost $5.00 a gallon - so much for being cheaper
Gutshot John
04-20-08, 11:14
deisel in new york is almost $5.00 a gallon - so much for being cheaper
The question would be is what is the cost of regular. Assuming diesel gets 40% better mileage.
on a 20 gallon diesel tank it would be $100 fillup at 40miles to the gallon...you go 800 miles. 1 dollar per 8 miles.
at 20 gallon gasoline tank (assuming 25 mpg and $4/gallon) $80 you go 500 miles. 1 dollar per 6.25 miles.
This only is a gas cost.
Diesel here in California is always 5-10 cents more than primium gas. The reason diesel has topped everything else is 1) it is now a processed fuel. Before ULSD was mandated diesel was really a left over from the process than refined oil to gas. Now it has to be refined as well to get the sulfer content down. 2) and i beleve the biggest reason diesel cost so much is some gready bastard relized that this entire country runs off of diesel. If the trucking industry shut down for three days we would have entire towns running out of food and fuel and that would lead us to some big problems when the panick set.
$3.66 here in Arlington Va yesterday.
Last time I filled up the price was $3.37 at the exxon by work (university bld and georgia ave) in wheaton.
Ahmadinejad Says Oil at $115 a Barrel is Too Low, Calls for Higher Prices
TEHRAN, Iran — Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was quoted Saturday as saying crude oil prices at $115 a barrel are too low, and that oil must "discover its real value."
Oil prices have hit all-time highs above $115 a barrel in recent weeks, amid reports that oil and gasoline stocks in the United States were lower than expected and as the dollar sinks to record lows.
"The oil price of $115 a barrel in today's global markets is a deceiving figure. Oil is a strategic commodity that needs to discover its real value," the Web site of Iran's state-run television quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
The Iranian president made the remarks during a visit to an oil and gas exhibition in Tehran late Friday.
Crude oil futures surged to a new trading record of $117 a barrel Friday following an attack on a key pipeline in Nigeria. The rise capped a week of record highs fueled by supply woes and the dollar's weakness relative to other major currencies.
Ahmadinejad said despite the surge in oil prices, the economic value of crude oil is currently less than what it was in 1980.
"While the price of other commodities have increased, the economic value of the current oil price is even less than 1980," he said.
Ahmadinejad accused Western industrialized nations of "selfishness" in their quest for cheaper oil.
"When they get hold of oil, they assume that oil is a free commodity and belongs to them and has wrongly been placed in other territories... This is the spirit of selfishness and arrogance," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying.
A host of supply and demand concerns in the U.S. and abroad, along with the dollar's weakness, have bolstered oil prices, even as record retail gasoline prices in the U.S. appear to be dampening demand.
A stronger dollar makes commodities such as oil less attractive to investors as a hedge against inflation, and it makes oil more expensive to investors overseas. Analysts believe the weaker dollar is the primary reason oil has soared well past $100 a barrel this year. But the effect tends to reverse when the greenback gains ground.
Ahmadinejad called the U.S. currency "a handful of paper" without any global support.
Iran has stopped using the U.S. dollar in its oil transactions with the outside world, switching to other non-dollar currencies such as Euro.
"The dollar is not money any longer but a handful of paper distributed in the world without commodity support," the Web site quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
(Retrieved from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351789,00.html on April 21, 2008.)
So, we're just a bunch of cry babies or TANSTAAFL, huh? No!
Drivers paying record pump prices
By Chelsea Emery
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. drivers are paying record prices to fill their gas tanks and they could see prices surge as much as 30 cents more per gallon over the next few weeks, according to an industry analyst.
U.S. average retail gasoline prices hit a record $3.4737 per gallon on April 18, up 15.66 cents from the April 4 average, according to the nationwide Lundberg survey of about 7,000 gas stations.
Higher driving costs come at a tough time for U.S. consumers, who are already struggling with higher food prices, a slowing economy, job losses and sinking home prices. In addition, surges in gasoline demand during the peak driving months of June, July and August and higher costs could force motorists to cut back on their vacation travel plans, or reduce spending in other areas.
"Behind the record-high pump prices are other record highs that are less visible to the naked eye of the motorist, including record high crude oil prices and a record number of regulations that are adding costs to refining," said survey editor Trilby Lundberg.
The WTI crude oil futures price closed at $116.69 per barrel on April 18, up from $106.23 on April 4, she said.
Boosting gas prices still more, regulatory mandates are calling for increasing levels of ethanol to be added to gasoline. That's raising expenses for refiners. In addition, the costs of spring reformulations of gasoline will also hurt prices at the pump.
Refiners and retailers have not yet fully passed on their higher costs to consumers, Lundberg said. When they do, prices will shoot higher.
"If crude oil prices do not retreat, then we will see somewhere between 10 cents to 30 cents rise in the retail price of gasoline, probably in the next few weeks," Lundberg said.
So far this year, the price of gasoline has climbed 53.47 cents per gallon, Lundberg said.
CALIFORNIANS, TRUCKERS HURT
Californians are paying the most for their gas, with average prices in San Francisco reaching $3.88 per gallon. Some gas stations are charging as much as $4 per gallon, Lundberg said.
California is the biggest state consumer of gasoline.
Trucking companies, too, are paying more for their fuel. That could boost prices for a range of goods that are transported, including produce and consumer products.
The average U.S. retail diesel fuel price on the 18th of April hit $4.2134 per gallon, up 15.13 cents.
The lowest average gasoline price was $3.21 a gallon in Newark, New Jersey. Taxes account for most of the disparity in prices between California and New Jersey. Taxes in Newark add about 33 cents per gallon to the cost of gas, while in San Francisco, motorists pay about 68 cents per gallon toward taxes.
(Retrieved from http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2045108220080420?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true on April 21, 2008.)
Ah, a complicated issue that will continue to be an expensive issue for consumers and our economy.
Gutshot John
04-21-08, 08:38
So, we're just a bunch of cry babies or TANSTAAFL, huh? No!
Heated rhetoric of holocaust deniers aside, any economic power they have is what we GIVE them.
At $117/barrel there is ample incentive for the market to produce alternatives and shift to short-term solutions such as nuclear and coal. Greenpeace is going to have to pound some sand.
In the long-term, the short-term instability of oil prices will play to our benefit. Once a viable alternative comes online, the price of oil will drop faster than a prom dress. At that point, one-trick-pony oil-based economies like Iran and Venezuela will find they're sitting on the biggest bubble since the Great Tulip Depression. They will have literally killed the golden goose.
In the meantime, to get to that point, we have to put up with record gas prices, but our economy can withstand a shift from oil, theirs cannot.
I know, it really really sucks, but if your theory of "economic warfare" is correct than we are in a much better strategic position.
$3.65 here. Heh. Not a good time to be a Jeep or truck owner. :(
-B
$3.65 here. Heh. Not a good time to be a Jeep or truck owner. :(
-B
What?! Everyday is a blessed day when you're a Jeep owner. Irie mon....irie. :D
Although my 14.2 mpg does suck. :eek:
CNN Quick Vote
Are rising gas prices cutting into your food budget?
Yes 76% 83590
No 24% 27075
Total Votes: 110665
(Retrieved from http://www.cnn.com on April 21, 2008.)
Well, on the bright side Americans will get skinnier! :rolleyes:
What?! Everyday is a blessed day when you're a Jeep owner. Irie mon....irie. :D
Although my 14.2 mpg does suck. :eek:
Man, I agree with you every day I'm not filling up. It's that one damn day at the station that puts me off, and it just so happens to be today.
On the other hand, I've learned some new drafting techniques, and that it doesn't work when the vehicle in front of you is small. :D
-B
Bulldog1967
04-21-08, 14:48
Something needs to be done. Right Ephing now.
Typical. :rolleyes:
We're not allowed to drill in ANWAR.
We're not allowed to drill off of the Florida coast.
We're not allowed to build any more new Nuclear power sites.
Ted Kennedy doesn't want the big new windmills in his back "yahd".
Current refineries are running at 98% peak efficiency.
25% of the current price of gas is state and federal taxes.
China and India are becoming bigger and bigger consumers of the product.
What EXACTLY should we "do" again?
tumbleweed1002
04-24-08, 16:39
The new 5 dollar bill.
AAA is predicting that gas will average $4 per gallon this summer. They say to expect to spend $100 per tank at the pumps. Fortunately, by Jeep only has a 19 gallon tank. :rolleyes:
And here cynical old me thought there would be calls for military action for petro resources at $3/gal...
I had plans to get a full size crewcab this year. Lately I've been thinking literbike.
well i recon when america dosent buy gas from opec (not sure when or if that will happen) where will their income come from? thats most of those countries only export
Nathan_Bell
04-24-08, 19:51
Typical. :rolleyes:
We're not allowed to drill in ANWAR.
We're not allowed to drill off of the Florida coast.
We're not allowed to build any more new Nuclear power sites.
Ted Kennedy doesn't want the big new windmills in his back "yahd".
Current refineries are running at 98% peak efficiency.
25% of the current price of gas is state and federal taxes.
China and India are becoming bigger and bigger consumers of the product.
What EXACTLY should we "do" again?
We should not be using any hydrocarbons to generate electricity. Natural gas and coal have too many other uses. Nukes, hydro, or geo should be what the main plants should be. Natural gas for peak load, but not for prime use.
We should not be using any hydrocarbons to generate electricity. Natural gas and coal have too many other uses. Nukes, hydro, or geo should be what the main plants should be. Natural gas for peak load, but not for prime use.
This reminds me of the nuclear protests in the 70's and 80's. Ah, be careful what you ask for....
well i recon when america dosent buy gas from opec (not sure when or if that will happen) where will their income come from? thats most of those countries only export
China, India and all the rest.
TUNNEL RAT 33
04-24-08, 22:37
long island just hit $ 4.00 . all the guys i work with are now taking the train to work .
Nathan_Bell
04-25-08, 04:33
This reminds me of the nuclear protests in the 70's and 80's. Ah, be careful what you ask for....
Yes, but are these folks really going to get the big media support they did back then when the general public is starting to realize that 'cutting back on the energy you use' means a lower standard of living?
Yes, but are these folks really going to get the big media support they did back then when the general public is starting to realize that 'cutting back on the energy you use' means a lower standard of living?
My point was that we had options over three decades ago, but we let a bunch of actvists limit our nuclear power options, off-shore oil drill, etc.
Submariner
04-25-08, 08:22
The Fed doesn't print dollars. Adding liquidity simply means taking cash out of reserves and putting it in circulation. The cash in question has already been printed. Additionally the Fed simply buys up issued U.S. bonds (debt).
Different concept altogether though you are correct that the more money in circulation, the less it costs to borrow...and the less it is worth. This equals inflation, but at under 4%, currency inflation is not the reason prices are rising.
You are partially correct; the Bureau of Engraving and Printing actually prints it. Credit to help finance us.gov, however, is created, out of nothing, by the Federal Reserve System, a banking cartel. Then us.gov borrows it and gives an otherwise unsellable Treasury Bill, Note or Bond for the newly created digital "money". Our .gov now has "money" to spend or print. Please read their own words from the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank: (http://www.kc.frb.org/infofrs/ifrsmain.htm)
The Fed can put more money in the economy - actually create money - by buying U.S. government securities on the open market. The Fed pays sellers for the securities. They, in turn, deposit the money in various financial institutions. While these financial institutions are required by law to keep a certain percentage of this money on reserve, they are free to loan out the remainder.
Let's see how this works. Suppose Jane Smith is holding a U.S. Treasury bond, one she can sell at any time. Through a broker, she sells this bond to the Fed for $1,000. At this point the Fed, using power granted to it by the U.S. Congress, pays Ms. Smith by creating $1,000 that did not exist before. If we were to write a check for $1,000, that money would come out of our bank account. But the Fed's check creates new money by adding to banking reserves. Ms. Smith deposits the $1,000 in Trustworthy Bank. Trustworthy must keep a certain amount on reserve. We'll suppose the bank's reserve requirement is 10 percent. Of the $1,000 deposit, then, Trustworthy can loan out $900, known as its excess reserves. Joe Jones, an insurance salesman, needs to borrow $900 for new computer equipment for his office. Trustworthy Bank credits Jones' bank account with $900, money he will later repay. In turn, Jones writes a check to Computerwise Co. for $900. This company, in turn, deposits the check in Reliable Savings and Loan. Reliable must hold back 10 percent on reserve and can loan out $810. This process goes on and on, increasing the amount of money in the economy. While each financial institution can only lend an amount equal to its excess reserves, the financial system as a whole can expand the amount of money in the economy.
As you can see, money is created in our economy in two ways that are different but related. The Federal Reserve begins the process by creating "raw money" when it buys a Treasury security on the open market. The banking system can then expand this amount of money by lending it.
On the other hand, if the Federal Reserve sees the nation is threatened with inflation, it may sell some of the securities in its portfolio. Buyers pay the Fed for these securities out of their bank accounts. At this point, places like Trustworthy Bank and Reliable Savings and Loan have less money to lend. In this way, the Federal Reserve removes money from the economy since the money paid to the Fed does not go back into any sort of bank account.
Today, the bankers are trading toxic CDO's, SIV's, etc., all of questionable value, for Treasuries on the Fed's books. Inflationary? Deflationary? No one knows for certain. Just keep the casino running a little longer...
BTW, the Yankee Dollah is not a fiat currency backed by nothing. It is an oil currency backed by the promises of OPEC, another cartel, to price only in USD and US military force to keep the house of Saud, et. al in power. When folks price oil in euros or rubles, demand for the dollar drops and us.gov is threatened. it may not be able to keep its promises if the dollar is worth less.
Ex America by Garet Garrett (big-time writer for The Saturday Evening Post)
Excerpt:
... Then the Federal government seized control of money, credit, and banking, and introduced an irredeemable paper-money currency. Next, the Federal Reserve System, which was never, never to be a political instrument, became an engine of inflation, and the New Deal Treasury perfected a method of converting public debt into dollars-- a process now called "monetization of the debt."
By this chain of events a revolution was brought to pass, almost unawares. Many people are still dim about it. The revolution was that for the first time in our history the government was free. Formerly free government was understood to mean the government itself was free. But now that meaning has changed. The government itself was free. Free from what? Free from the ancient limitations of money; the bigger the deficit the richer the government was. It had only to think billions and behold, the billions were in the Treasury.
http://www.mises.org/books/pottage.pdf
Russia demands payment is rubles. Nobody screws with Russia because they have nukes. Saddam changed pricing of Iraqi oil to euros. The euro strengthened and the dollar dropped. Saddam got a little visit from the banking cartel's enforcers. Iran changes pricing to euros. It wants nukes, too, so, like Russia, the banking cartel's enforcers don't come knocking.
Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler had it right (as well as two stars and two MOH's):
Smedley Butler on Interventionism
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
Man, the whole conspiracy of "war for cheap oil" every ten years or so sure fell on it's face...
decodeddiesel
04-25-08, 11:24
We should not be using any hydrocarbons to generate electricity. Natural gas and coal have too many other uses. Nukes, hydro, or geo should be what the main plants should be. Natural gas for peak load, but not for prime use.
I agree however hydro, geo, and solar are grossly inefficient compared to Nuclear. I read a statistic stating if we went to 100% Nuclear in this country we would be able to EXPORT oil!! Could you imagine what that would do for not only the price of gas but the national debt as well?!
Lest we not forget the oil reserves of Mexico (our NAFTA hombres :rolleyes:) are going to be depleted in 10 years. Imagine what that will do for this country.
Submariner
04-25-08, 12:52
Man, the whole conspiracy of "war for cheap oil" every ten years or so sure fell on it's face...
Perpetual war for perpetual peace.;)
For lumpy196:
"Don't attribute to malfeasance, that which can be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon
:D
I believe we are seeing an evolution in state warfare. State sponsored terrorism still occurs, but not directly against the United States territories. Now we are seeing economic warfare waged by foreign states against the United States.
Remember, when Osama attacked the World Trade Centers he was targeting our economy with Direct Action (DA). This new form of economic warfare hits everyone, just as conventional warfare had done in previous wars, but targets the US dollar/economy and not the people or infrastructure directly.
The US military is too strong for any one state or non-state to take on directly. Economic warfare allows these states to attack the US with impunity. While some may suspect our economy is under attack, most will just dismiss the allegations and thus the attacking state is safe from retaliation.
Build refineries, increase utilization of alternative sources of energy (wind, thermal, solar and nuclear), and start drilling.
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html
The only problem is that the enviro nazis, particularly now that we are in just beginning a three year global propaganda campaign to raise environmental conciousness, will not let us build refineries or drill and certainly not use nuclear power. There has even been nashing of teeth over wind power as the towers will interfere with waterfowl migratory routes. Heaven forbid.
Can't use ethanol anymore either because of the food shortages. They'll be happy only when as Ted Turner (one driving force behind the propaganda campaign and Algore's bedfellow) the world's population is reduced by 2/3 in 100 years.
How do you suppose he proposes to do that?
I agree however hydro, geo, and solar are grossly inefficient compared to Nuclear. I read a statistic stating if we went to 100% Nuclear in this country we would be able to EXPORT oil!! Could you imagine what that would do for not only the price of gas but the national debt as well?!
Lest we not forget the oil reserves of Mexico (our NAFTA hombres :rolleyes:) are going to be depleted in 10 years. Imagine what that will do for this country.
i work in the industry and this is factual. this pie chart is U.S. statistics from 2006
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5655/figes1aq4.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epa_sum.html
Submariner
04-25-08, 17:58
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's about the dollar, stupid..."
John McCain understands that the ROW needs to accept dollars on our terms to preserve the American Way of Life. If they won't, then we bomb them until they do.
Ahmadinejad: the U.S. currency is just “a handful of paper” without any global support
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran’s hard-line president declared that crude oil prices, now above $115 a barrel, are too low, state media reported Saturday.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told an oil and gas exhibition in Tehran on Friday that he thought the commodity still had to “discover its real value,” according to the Web site of Iran’s state-run television.
“The oil price of $115 a barrel in today’s global markets is a deceiving figure. Oil is a strategic commodity that needs to discover its real value,” the Web site quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
Ahmadinejad said despite high oil prices, the true value of crude oil, adjusted for inflation, is currently less than what it was in 1980.
“While the price of other commodities have increased, the economic value of the current oil price is even less than 1980,” he said.
“When they get hold of oil, they assume that oil is a free commodity and belongs to them and has wrongly been placed in other territories. … This is the spirit of selfishness and arrogance,” Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying.
Ahmadinejad called the U.S. currency “a handful of paper” without any global support.
“The dollar is not money any longer but a handful of paper distributed in the world without commodity support,” the Web site quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
See link for entire article. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_bi_ge/iran_oil_2)
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's about the dollar, stupid..."
John McCain understands that the ROW needs to accept dollars on our terms to preserve the American Way of Life. If they won't, then we bomb them until they do.
It's a bit more complicated than that, Submariner. Especially in this age where what other countries/organizations think is important (e.g., the UN, European Union, etc). And in a global economy....
Submariner
04-28-08, 11:19
It's a bit more complicated than that, Submariner. Especially in this age where what other countries/organizations think is important (e.g., the UN, European Union, etc). And in a global economy....
Our foreign policy is like a big game of poker. We show off enough baubles to convince the other nations that we're hosting the biggest game in the world and encourage them to get to the head table by borrowing their way in.
Then, when they do get in, the political elite are showered with all pomp that comes with getting in to the big game. All is well as the game starts, with some good natured sparring around.
But it's only a matter of time before they realize that the rules are skewed: They are only allowed to play with our chips, the value of which we control, and we have a never-ending supply.
Under these rules, they can't out-bid us, and their bluffs are meaningless...as are their winnings, because the more they win, the less value the chips have. Worse yet, if they say they don't want to play this rigged game anymore, we bomb their country.
Some foreign policy. Texas Hold 'Em?:rolleyes:
I have been paying $4.40 for Diesel. My pocket book is in shambles. :mad:
I will be buying a Harley Davidson Motorcycle this summer. Should save Me some money on Gas. I also Walk or ride My Mountain bike whenever possible.
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