View Full Version : Saw or axe? Axe or Machete? Machete or big knife?
Saw or axe? Axe or Machete? Machete or big knife?
assume you are also taking a smaller knife, fixed or folding. what would you take and why?..
Rockhopper
08-15-13, 21:09
Saw or axe? Axe or Machete? Machete or big knife?
assume you are also taking a smaller knife, fixed or folding. what would you take and why?..
esee 3 and junglas.
/end thread.
Axe/hatchet, because I would get more use out of it where I live(deep south). Machetes are cool but previous experience has taught me that they are not very good for substained heavy (wood) cutting. And a heavy knife would just be the big brother to what I'm already carrying, while cool and good in a knife fight or sticking pigs bayed by dogs not useful for me.
Terrain and flora will dictate.
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 21:44
Terrain and flora will dictate.
This.
What's the environment? And are you driving in a Winnebago, or carrying this across the Tetons?
I grew up in the desert where there were no trees. If you carried an ax, people would assume you were a looney.
NeoNeanderthal
08-15-13, 21:56
Exactly, In the north its an axe and a small knife. In the desert a folding saw goes a long way. In jungle/dense areas a machete is amazing. It also depends on your experience level. If your a mainer who has been using a Gransfors Bruks hatchett his entire life and you feel naked without it, than it might be the best thing for you even in the desert.
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 22:06
....... If your a mainer who has been using a Gransfors Bruks hatchett his entire life and you feel naked without it, than it might be the best thing for you even in the desert.
Um, okay.....
I'd still probably prefer to carry an extra quart of water, over an axe for cutting down a non-existent tree.
And I'm speaking as someone that has a pair of GB axes, an SA Wetterlings hatchet, and a Hult Bruks hatchet. I'm a fan of Swedish steel. I probably have a half-dozen Mora's, too.
A comforting favorite blankie is one thing, but gear that does not assist you does not make a great deal of sense to me.
I'm not trying to urinate in your breakfast cereal of choice, I just don't understand why you would do that. Psychological comfort?
NeoNeanderthal
08-15-13, 22:12
An axe is far from useless in the desert. I'm not talking subsharan here. Every single desert survival trip i've been on, I could have used an axe. Would it be the best tool for the job? No probably not.
My point was that if someone is amazing with an axe/hatchett they might choose one over a knife or machete even when for most people the knife or machete would be the best tool for the job. I know dudes that can carve with an axe, better than i can with a mora.
The same goes for knifes, people with very little skill with an axe might be better served with a large knife in northern climates. If you know how to use a strudy knife correctly you can do a lot with it.
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 22:18
Cool, your desert has trees in it.
And I am a fan of axes, hence the aforementioned list of them.
To the OP's question, I seem to end up carrying a Sven saw a lot. They fold up, and are tend to be pretty safe for someone without as much training or skill. I've treated some pretty fascinating axe/hatchet wounds in the past. The ones with the saw tend to produce less hydraulic fluid and need less work to repair.
If you were dehydrated and undernourished, your judgement and motor skills tend to be reduced. Sometimes caution is a helpful thing.
NeoNeanderthal
08-15-13, 22:28
To the OP's question, I seem to end up carrying a Sven saw a lot. They fold up, and are tend to be pretty safe for someone without as much training or skill.
If you were dehydrated and undernourished, your judgement and motor skills tend to be reduced. Sometimes caution is a helpful thing.
Personally i think saws are a great choice. As you pointed out- less potential to injure yourself. I also like them because they are light, and use less energy to cut wood, and are quieter. My weapon of choice is a simple Laplander folding saw though.
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 22:31
Is the Laplander pretty sturdy? I'll have to take a look at one, if they are. It seems like a lot of the small folders don't lock up very well that I have looked at.
But the only ones I've tried are the Gerber, and the cheaper ones from hardware stores. One with a good locking mechanism would be welcome.
Is there a specific one you can link to, that works best?
I don't trust gerber for much of anything. Silky (http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2) has some nice folding saws available. I just have the pocketboy, and it works well up to its limit. It would be nice to have a longer cutting stroke like the big boy, but without the tension on the blade (like a buck/sven) the extra length might be self-defeating.
Rat 7 with stick will baton camp size logs. Sabercut saw is option as well https://www.google.com/search?q=pocket+chainsaw+sabercut+saw&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CqMNUrvAFYPm2QX8wYG4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=602
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 23:07
I don't trust gerber for much of anything. Silky (http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2) has some nice folding saws available. I just have the pocketboy, and it works well up to its limit. It would be nice to have a longer cutting stroke like the big boy, but without the tension on the blade (like a buck/sven) the extra length might be self-defeating.
Thanks for the tip on the Silky. I may grab one, I can always use it on the trees and shrubbery around the house. Should be a decent test, the trees are hardwoods.
What size teeth do you have on the Pocketboy? The webpage shows small, medium and large.
Speaking of Silky!
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xxiv.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xxv.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xxvi.jpg
And in comparison to one of my axes:
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/HytestSilky_zps2aadc219.jpg
That's all for now!
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Axe me not 'bout axes.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/AxeFamily.jpg
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 23:20
Nice - thanks for the photos!
Nice - thanks for the photos!
On that Silky KatanaBoy, here's a few more pic shots just to give an idea.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xx.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xix.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xviii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xvii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xvi.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xv.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_x.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_ix.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_viii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_vi.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xxii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/SilkyKatanaboy_xxiii.jpg
SeriousStudent
08-15-13, 23:29
You know, the next time I have to do performance reviews at work, I think I'll bring one of those.
I have a feeling they will be finished in no time, with a minimum of debate. :D
Oh, and speaking of the Bahco Laplander.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_ii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_iii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_iv.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_v.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_vi.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander_x.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/BahcoLaplander396.jpg
I must admit to wanting to give the Bahco Laplander a try. I wanna say Canterbury/pathfinder gave thumbs up...
Some have those bucksaws for their particular needs out and about in the wilderness/woods. Here's one that I have called Bob Dustrude's Quick Bucksaw.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_ii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_iii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_ix.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_x.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_xix.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSaw_xvii.jpg
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/QuickBuckSawinHand.jpg
This one, in my opinion is better built that the TrailBlazer Sawvivor as compared here.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/2BowSaws.jpg
There's quite a bit of information and reviews on these two (2) particular saws on YouTube and elsewhere on the InformationSuperHighway.
Bahco(formerly Sandvik) makes very nice tools for the woods.
A good mid-sized knife, 15-20cm blade, and a folding SAW.
I feel this combination offers more versatility than an axe/hatchet-knife combo.
esee 3 and junglas.
/end thread.
I guess that whole "and why" part got by you, huh?..
:p
This.
What's the environment? And are you driving in a Winnebago, or carrying this across the Tetons?
I grew up in the desert where there were no trees. If you carried an ax, people would assume you were a looney.
your rules. describe under which conditions you would do which. however, if I was in the Winnebago I'd have a chainsaw with me so let's keep it with the nature of the forum - Fieldcraft and Survival...
Um, okay.....
I'd still probably prefer to carry an extra quart of water, over an axe for cutting down a non-existent tree.
And I'm speaking as someone that has a pair of GB axes, an SA Wetterlings hatchet, and a Hult Bruks hatchet. I'm a fan of Swedish steel. I probably have a half-dozen Mora's, too.
A comforting favorite blankie is one thing, but gear that does not assist you does not make a great deal of sense to me.
I'm not trying to urinate in your breakfast cereal of choice, I just don't understand why you would do that. Psychological comfort?
your Hults Bruks - is it an actual Hults or the Husqvarna version? I didn't know you could get Hults in the US...
Thanks for the tip on the Silky. I may grab one, I can always use it on the trees and shrubbery around the house. Should be a decent test, the trees are hardwoods.
What size teeth do you have on the Pocketboy? The webpage shows small, medium and large.
I have both the course and fine tooth blades, but I have only used the course due to only cutting green wood with it so far. It works well for pruning.
For CLHC, how does the Bahco compare to the Pocketboy?
for those of you who advocate a saw instead of an axe, how do you split wood?
I like a saw. I often throw a 10" Fiskars Sliding saw in my pack simply because it's so light and there are definitely times when it's easier than an axe. but it won't get me to the inside of wood, either to make kindling, or to get at the dry inner parts when it's wet out.
an axe works best for this. you can baton a big knife but it won't outright chop as well as an axe and a short axe can shave and make tinder with no trouble.
SeriousStudent
08-16-13, 22:31
your rules. describe under which conditions you would do which. however, if I was in the Winnebago I'd have a chainsaw with me so let's keep it with the nature of the forum - Fieldcraft and Survival...
Okay, I was asking for info, so I could help you with your question.
Good luck to you.
for those of you who advocate a saw instead of an axe, how do you split wood?
I like a saw. I often throw a 10" Fiskars Sliding saw in my pack simply because it's so light and there are definitely times when it's easier than an axe. but it won't get me to the inside of wood, either to make kindling, or to get at the dry inner parts when it's wet out.
an axe works best for this. you can baton a big knife but it won't outright chop as well as an axe and a short axe can shave and make tinder with no trouble.
I will cut the log or whatever in smaller pieces with my saw, before splitting it in two or four with my knife. I guess you call the technique, to baton wood.
Usually though, I will gather firewood that is not green at all. Pick up dead or dry pieces from the ground. Dead fir is the best firewood ever.
For tinder I prefer to gather birch bark, the outer dry layers. Then you gather twigs and branches and add them to the fire according to size, small to large.
Firemaking is all about prep and using what is readily available. I have rarely had to cut down stuff to make firewood. If I need to cut something down, it is for building a shelter.
I've packed a Gerber folding saw on my snowmachine and my hunting pack for 15 years. I've never had it fail and I've cut hundreds of small trees down with it in that time.
I also carry a machete wherever I go. I was taught to sharpen and use one properly by a surveyor friend that spent a decade doing oil exploration in South America. It is light, packs tightly against the cowling of my snowmachine and backpack.
Okay, I was asking for info, so I could help you with your question.
Good luck to you.
nono, I wasn't' trying to shut you down. I wanted you to explain in what circumstances you find yourself turning most to, with the assumption that we are discussing something that will be carried on foot, and basic needs are fire and shelter building, and/or possibly trail clearing. so please, if you have something to add, it will be an important part of this discussion...
I think there's a lot of overlap between these tools, especially when you add a fixed knife of whatever size. my point is there are people here with widely differing experience and yet still different preferences. I was hoping to start a discussion to explore these circumstances and what people have found in their own experience works best.
I'll say, I like using an axe/hatchet in the 14"-18" range as I have used them since a scout and actually enjoy the activity of chopping (whatever that says about me...). with a small axe/hatchet, I am able fell small trees, trim and cut them to useful length, split them to reach the dry inside, and by choking up on the handle, even use it like a large knife to shave and slice wood into kindling.
a lot of people prefer a saw and I carry a small sliding one in my hunting pack for quietly building blinds and trimming branches for shooting lanes. where I find limitations with a saw is that on branches/wood smaller than 2"-3", that an axe that can chop through with one or two strokes, it requires more strokes/work overall with a saw. added to that, if you intend to further process that wood, it requires another tool.
however, if cutting wood into useful lengths, and/or precision cuts are required, anything over about 4" leans to use of a saw. 6" is at the useful limit of my 10" saw though I hardly see a need to attack anything larger in general camping or survival mode...
I will cut the log or whatever in smaller pieces with my saw, before splitting it in two or four with my knife. I guess you call the technique, to baton wood.
Usually though, I will gather firewood that is not green at all. Pick up dead or dry pieces from the ground. Dead fir is the best firewood ever.
For tinder I prefer to gather birch bark, the outer dry layers. Then you gather twigs and branches and add them to the fire according to size, small to large.
Firemaking is all about prep and using what is readily available. I have rarely had to cut down stuff to make firewood. If I need to cut something down, it is for building a shelter.
first of all, I would never argue with a Norseman about knives and steel :jester:
but let me ask you a question. what size knife are you talking about? I know some people carry big 7-10" knives and these bridge the gap between knife/axe/machete. what size do you find most useful as your primary knife?
I know how to build a fire and use what's available, however, I enjoy practicing techniques more of a survival mode and assume that in these circumstances dry wood/tinder will be difficult to come by. also, birch bark, while available in northern forests, is not available in all parts of the US. while there is other stuff you can use, if the woods are drenched as they are now in the SE US, you can still find dry wood inside a wet log that can be used for tinder.
I've packed a Gerber folding saw on my snowmachine and my hunting pack for 15 years. I've never had it fail and I've cut hundreds of small trees down with it in that time.
I also carry a machete wherever I go. I was taught to sharpen and use one properly by a surveyor friend that spent a decade doing oil exploration in South America. It is light, packs tightly against the cowling of my snowmachine and backpack.
Doug, my saw is a Fiskars, probably the same as your Gerber, just rebranded and like it a lot too.
What size is your machete? what ways do you find it more useful than an axe?..
I don't trust gerber for much of anything. Silky (http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2) has some nice folding saws available. I just have the pocketboy, and it works well up to its limit. It would be nice to have a longer cutting stroke like the big boy, but without the tension on the blade (like a buck/sven) the extra length might be self-defeating.
my experience with a bow saw has not been good. I can't seem to cut straight with it but that may be because of the quality of the saws I have used. do you find the longer tension saws like the Sven, Sawvivor, etc., do a good job in this regard?..
first of all, I would never argue with a Norseman about knives and steel :jester:
but let me ask you a question. what size knife are you talking about? I know some people carry big 7-10" knives and these bridge the gap between knife/axe/machete. what size do you find most useful as your primary knife?
I know how to build a fire and use what's available, however, I enjoy practicing techniques more of a survival mode and assume that in these circumstances dry wood/tinder will be difficult to come by. also, birch bark, while available in northern forests, is not available in all parts of the US. while there is other stuff you can use, if the woods are drenched as they are now in the SE US, you can still find dry wood inside a wet log that can be used for tinder.
I prefer a knife with a blade in the 7" range, like my Yarborough.
I find it gives me plenty of versatility; cutting, chopping, batoning, fine work and so forth.
That said, I don't think I have found THE knife yet though...
I have both the course and fine tooth blades, but I have only used the course due to only cutting green wood with it so far. It works well for pruning.
For CLHC, how does the Bahco compare to the Pocketboy?
I haven't had the opportunity to try them out just yet. From those who have posted their personal experience with noted that the Bacho Laplander is more of a push/pull saw that works as intended, although the surface is described as being "course." The Silky Saws are more of a "pulling" saw and are as the name suggests, "silky" smooth when cutting producing a "smooth" surface. According to users, where the Silky performs is in hardwoods.
There's a YouTube "personality" by the name of virtuovice that posts his experience with detailed reviews on the Silkys.
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Bob Dustrude's Quick Buck Lever Action Saw as demonstrated here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I3gaNwiVxQ
madisonsfinest
08-17-13, 17:34
@ SeriousStudent.... Check out the virtuovice youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice/videos
He does a lot of reviews on knives and some saws. He is well respected in those areas.
@ SeriousStudent.... Check out the virtuovice youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice/videos
He does a lot of reviews on knives and some saws. He is well respected in those areas.
There's an "episode" where he cuts/slashes tendon in his uppermost index finger knuckle and then proceeds to video his own surgery by cleaning and stitching it up, though not outdoors mind you.
Surgery at 6:00:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agPHV3P1tM
madisonsfinest
08-17-13, 20:25
I think he's a Dr. so I'm not too surprised he would do that. Definitely going to watch the video!!
madisonsfinest
08-17-13, 20:34
Ok that dude is bad ass! I think that confirms that he has the sharpest knives ever damn that cut deep
7.62WildBill
08-17-13, 22:34
My choice is an 18" Ontario Knife machete. I have been carrying mine in the woods for 20 years. It's perfect for clearing shooting lanes, brushing blinds, and crude field butchery.
My choice is an 18" Ontario Knife machete. I have been carrying mine in the woods for 20 years. It's perfect for clearing shooting lanes, brushing blinds, and crude field butchery.
that's the one made with 1095 steel? there's a lot of respect for that one.
what do you like about it better than, say, a large knife?..
7.62WildBill
08-18-13, 18:03
that's the one made with 1095 steel? there's a lot of respect for that one.
what do you like about it better than, say, a large knife?..
Much better mechanical advantage than a big knife. The heavier blade with greater length can do some work. You can chop some pretty thick limbs in one swipe, and take down small trees without too much effort. About 15 years ago, I spent a few hours giving it a wicked sharp edge, and it is still pretty damn sharp. I always carry a small folder and sometimes a medium size skinner, if I need to do any fine work.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s488/wildwoodbill000/3f7bd863-5230-4ea8-84cb-cc1c77ce4366_zpsb4b23ae7.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/wildwoodbill000/media/3f7bd863-5230-4ea8-84cb-cc1c77ce4366_zpsb4b23ae7.jpg.html)
my ESEE-6 its a large knife with enough heft for a good swing, full tang, and 1095 Carbon steel. I really don't see the point of having a smaller knife than the -6, it would do the majority of jobs in a survival situation. The ESEE-6 overall is 11.75". I guess depending were I would be I would still have to evaluate whether axe, saw, or machete. Probably saw and my ESEE.
SeriousStudent
08-18-13, 20:12
nono, I wasn't' trying to shut you down. I wanted you to explain in what circumstances you find yourself turning most to, with the assumption that we are discussing something that will be carried on foot, and basic needs are fire and shelter building, and/or possibly trail clearing. so please, if you have something to add, it will be an important part of this discussion...
I think there's a lot of overlap between these tools, especially when you add a fixed knife of whatever size. my point is there are people here with widely differing experience and yet still different preferences. I was hoping to start a discussion to explore these circumstances and what people have found in their own experience works best.
I'll say, I like using an axe/hatchet in the 14"-18" range as I have used them since a scout and actually enjoy the activity of chopping (whatever that says about me...). with a small axe/hatchet, I am able fell small trees, trim and cut them to useful length, split them to reach the dry inside, and by choking up on the handle, even use it like a large knife to shave and slice wood into kindling.
a lot of people prefer a saw and I carry a small sliding one in my hunting pack for quietly building blinds and trimming branches for shooting lanes. where I find limitations with a saw is that on branches/wood smaller than 2"-3", that an axe that can chop through with one or two strokes, it requires more strokes/work overall with a saw. added to that, if you intend to further process that wood, it requires another tool.
however, if cutting wood into useful lengths, and/or precision cuts are required, anything over about 4" leans to use of a saw. 6" is at the useful limit of my 10" saw though I hardly see a need to attack anything larger in general camping or survival mode...
My apologies, then, I misunderstood your post.
I honestly view the knife/saw/hatchet/axe tools the way most people looks at 1st, 2nd and 3rd line gear. I tend to add tools as my ability to carry them increases. So as I progress from just pockets, to carrying a small pack, then week-long pack, then vehicle; the size, number and capabilities increase.
I agree with you on the overlap as far as application in concerned, and will often plan accordingly. No big stroke of genius there, everyone does it. If I'm carrying a Swamp Rat Camp Tramp, I'll carry a saw. I can use the large knife and baton through a lot of wood.
I have a ESEE-3 in D2 I'm fond of, and will frequent pair it with the Hults Bruks Hunting Axe. Regarding it's origin, I actually got it off ebay. The seller was not really aware of what he had on the market, and I recognized the forging stamps. The tough part was finding a good quality hickory handle to match it up with. I am a huge fan of Swedish axes and hatchets, and they have spoiled me for just about anything else. I would like to try some Japanese woodworking tools someday, just for a comparison.
I've got a big heavy-duty Plano box like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plano-Sport-Locker-Black/20893857
It's got an GB axe, a saw, folding shovel, jumper cables, first aid kit, tools, tow strap, air compressor, flares, gas can, yada yada yada. So that's the "3rd line" stuff, I guess.
I am blessed/cursed with in-laws that call me when they have problems. This big box of stuff allows me to fling it into the vehicle, and go help them solve their frequently self-inflicted problems.
I used the Winnebago as a reference, do the the frequency of people getting in over their heads when traveling. It does seem that every year, you hear about a couple of families who get lost in the summer on a back road and die of dehydration. Or they take a wrong turn and get stuck on a snowy mountain road and freeze to death. They may not plan on finding themselves in a fieldcraft or survival scenario, but do to poor decision making end up in one.
Many years ago when I lived in Kentucky, we had a lot of people freeze to death on an highway during a very bad snowstorm. They had no plans or supplies, and they died. Some of them did not even have a winter coat to keep them warm, they just hopped in the car and took off down the road. Blizzard hits, car stops.
In regard to machete-type tools, I had a 14" golok that I bought many years ago in Thailand. Great tool, it had different bevels along the blade for chopping or slicing. It also had a smooth handle of polished water buffalo horn, which made it easy to use without blisters. You could build a field-expedient shelter very quickly with it, or clear away brush for a field of fire.
Like a fool, I sold it to a friend when left the military. I've seen a couple like it for about 200 bucks. :(
I've got a Condor model golok on the way from Central America, hopefully it will prove to be okay.
I hope that was helpful, and I'm sorry for the earlier miscommunication on my part.
Doug, my saw is a Fiskars, probably the same as your Gerber, just rebranded and like it a lot too.
What size is your machete? what ways do you find it more useful than an axe?..
I currently have an 24", the last of my old Collins machetes. The new ones just aren't as good with lots of hard spots in them that make them hard to sharpen. I am going to pick up a Cold Steel one soon as I tend to need more than one around the house.
I find it more useful than an axe in many ways. I use it for cutting alder and willow brush under 3". I can do that in most cases in one clean swipe. That is difficult to do with an axe. I also use it for clearing light brush and grass around camp. Something you can't do with an axe. I use a machete to trim small branches as I make my way through the woods, as well as cut down devil's club (google it). Something you can't do with an axe.
Axes are better for splitting wood, being used as a hammer, and cutting down larger trees. They are also twice as heavy as a machete to carry. Between my folding saw and my machete I can easily collect plenty of firewood for a night's camp. If I need a hammer I just cut a birch or alder club with my machete :D
My machete is literally shaving sharp and that is the mistake most machete haters make. They just don't sharpen it well enough.
I'm a Stihl chainsaw dealer and just received some Stihl arborist hand saws and they look awesome. I can't wait to try them out. I might just replace my Gerber with one.
I currently have an 24", the last of my old Collins machetes. The new ones just aren't as good with lots of hard spots in them that make them hard to sharpen. I am going to pick up a Cold Steel one soon as I tend to need more than one around the house.
I find it more useful than an axe in many ways. I use it for cutting alder and willow brush under 3". I can do that in most cases in one clean swipe. That is difficult to do with an axe. I also use it for clearing light brush and grass around camp. Something you can't do with an axe. I use a machete to trim small branches as I make my way through the woods, as well as cut down devil's club (google it). Something you can't do with an axe.
Axes are better for splitting wood, being used as a hammer, and cutting down larger trees. They are also twice as heavy as a machete to carry. Between my folding saw and my machete I can easily collect plenty of firewood for a night's camp. If I need a hammer I just cut a birch or alder club with my machete :D
My machete is literally shaving sharp and that is the mistake most machete haters make. They just don't sharpen it well enough.
I'm a Stihl chainsaw dealer and just received some Stihl arborist hand saws and they look awesome. I can't wait to try them out. I might just replace my Gerber with one.
I'd give a second thought to Cold Steel machetes. just for grins I picked up their Kukri machete and Jungle machete. both are made in S Africa and came with horrible blades with visible rolled over edges and burrs, etc.. if you are handy with a grinder they come around pretty quick but if all you have is a hand file make sure it's a sharp one... :moil:
I think your skill level with a particular tool factors heavily here. Swinging sharp steel things around your body is a good way for noobs to practice emergency wound care...
I've used a machete/axe all my life...I kept a 12" machete on my alice pack, and there is usually one on the tractor now, or on the floor board of my truck. I've got several decades in use...enter the kukri.:eek: I bought one on a whim 6 months ago, and I'm starting to learn how to use it. The first couple of months were ugly, and yes I had a few very close calls that could have been costly. Just a friendly reminder.
I would opt for a Woodsman Pal
http://www.woodmanspal.com/
I carry one in truck and have used it for everything from clearing brush (machete) to chopping down fairly large trees (axe). I have used it for spiltting logs up to about 6" in diameter. I've used the hook part of the blade for gutting a deer and the main side of the blade for hacking through the breast bone of a deer. So far it has been the most versatile tool in the woods I have. It even comes with it's own sharpening stone that is stored in the sheath.
I think your skill level with a particular tool factors heavily here. Swinging sharp steel things around your body is a good way for noobs to practice emergency wound care...
I've used a machete/axe all my life...I kept a 12" machete on my alice pack, and there is usually one on the tractor now, or on the floor board of my truck. I've got several decades in use...enter the kukri.:eek: I bought one on a whim 6 months ago, and I'm starting to learn how to use it. The first couple of months were ugly, and yes I had a few very close calls that could have been costly. Just a friendly reminder.
exactly... a large part of my (and I suspect anyone's) preference for a tool, is our familiarity with it. I keep a saw in my pack for small jobs and give it out to my kids and people who I worry they might injure themselves with a swing tool.
as far as danger, I think an axe/hatchet is worst because of the weight/momentum. though this lets it chop or split better than anything else, it's overswing makes it dangerous for stuff that doesn't have a positive stop behind it.
at the other end of the weight chart is the machete. it's light so it's good for thin stuff and overswing can be controlled pretty well but it's not a splitting tool. and even though they can chop pretty well, it gets stuck in the cut which leads to more fatigue...
somewhere between these two is the "big knife" - light enough to use like a machete, heavy enough to chop and supposedly can handle a lot of basic knife chores but I still prefer to carry a smaller, thinner, more easily sharpened knife.
I'm experimenting now with a Cold Steel Kukri Machete. the Kukri shape is forward heavy so it chops good but is more tiring at machete type work than a plain 13" machete. it came with a miserable edge on it but I tuned that up with a belt grinder pretty quick. and it dulls easily but that's just what I'm going to have to put up with till I get down to the good steel. still, it looks promising for a general out of doors tool. it even digs well due to the depth of the blade allowing a good handhold...
I would opt for a Woodsman Pal
http://www.woodmanspal.com/
I carry one in truck and have used it for everything from clearing brush (machete) to chopping down fairly large trees (axe). I have used it for spiltting logs up to about 6" in diameter. I've used the hook part of the blade for gutting a deer and the main side of the blade for hacking through the breast bone of a deer. So far it has been the most versatile tool in the woods I have. It even comes with it's own sharpening stone that is stored in the sheath.
I know a lot of guys who have one of those but don't see them in use much - most live in their truck or ATV as emergency tools. they seem like such a useful tool, sort of like a Swiss Army Machete/Axe/Brushhook. I really like the hook on the end as that's just made for vines...
how heavy are these?
Their site says it weighs 23oz and is 16.5" long. The blade is 1/8" thick. I use mine a lot. Mostly for clearing brush to and from deer stands, making duck blinds, and general camping work. Easily fits in a day pack or the sheath can be attached to a belt
When I'm hunting I'll have a Randall Model 23 knife and a Gerber folding saw.
SeriousStudent
08-21-13, 22:30
Just an FYI, Knifecenter.com has a bunch of the Silky saws on sale right now.
:D
When I'm hunting I'll have a Randall Model 23 knife and a Gerber folding saw.
I love that knife. fantastic choice...
When hunting my choices are almost exactly the same. my saw is the Fiskars 6" Sliding saw and I have one of the original Effingham Blackjack Trailguide Knives made with a convex edge in A2. it's 1/2" shorter overall but obviously inspired by the Randall 23.
http://blackjack.0catch.com/index/trailguide/bjmictrail.jpg
great minds, etc...? :D
:D
I love that knife. fantastic choice...
When hunting my choices are almost exactly the same. my saw is the Fiskars 6" Sliding saw and I have one of the original Effingham Blackjack Trailguide Knives made with a convex edge in A2. it's 1/2" shorter overall but obviously inspired by the Randall 23.
http://blackjack.0catch.com/index/trailguide/bjmictrail.jpg
great minds, etc...? :D
Yep. :meeting:
theizzardking
08-28-13, 12:34
Sven saw, Ontario 18 inch mil machete, esee-6, izula.
all bases are covered.
I'd give a second thought to Cold Steel machetes. just for grins I picked up their Kukri machete and Jungle machete. both are made in S Africa and came with horrible blades with visible rolled over edges and burrs, etc.. if you are handy with a grinder they come around pretty quick but if all you have is a hand file make sure it's a sharp one... :moil:
Some of the best machetes I have owned have required a couple hours to bring them around. I like a light flexible blade too. The woodsman pal is of no interest to me. Too short.
Sent from my iPhone on tapatalk
Some of the best machetes I have owned have required a couple hours to bring them around. I like a light flexible blade too. The woodsman pal is of no interest to me. Too short.
Sent from my iPhone on tapatalk
my experiment with the Cold Steel Kukri Machete has come to an end. in addition to the crappy edge, the primary grind is offset like a modified chisel grind. being left handed it is on the wrong side. my son loves it though the edge still needs work even for a right hander...
OTOH, the Jungle machete has promise! it's 2.8mm thick so it's heavier than a typical machete but only 16" long so it handles well. it's a pretty good chopper but still no match for even a good hatchet. I'll be working with a belt sander to get down to good steel and then I'll give a better opinion...
SeriousStudent
08-29-13, 20:51
....
OTOH, the Jungle machete has promise! it's 2.8mm thick so it's heavier than a typical machete but only 16" long so it handles well. it's a pretty good chopper but still no match for even a good hatchet. I'll be working with a belt sander to get down to good steel and then I'll give a better opinion...
If you have a chance when you finish the grind, and it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting a photo or two of the edge? I'd be really interested in that, and I bet others would enjoy looking at your work as well.
Thanks.
If you have a chance when you finish the grind, and it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting a photo or two of the edge? I'd be really interested in that, and I bet others would enjoy looking at your work as well.
Thanks.
sure, but it's nothing special. now THIS guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZb_1XfFHo really knows what he's doing...
more interesting is I'm modifying a crappy chinamart 18" I got years ago. it truly sucks but it mostly just rides on my tractor for knocking down stuff (like cobwebs :lol: ) that gets in my way when mowing. my problem is the point is so vertical that there is no cutting done there. I suppose that is useful for digging and centuries of refinement created the traditional shapes so maybe they know something that I don't? this only cost $8 so I'm not afraid of it being a total waste when all is said and done.
I'm going to trim back the length to 14" to remove some voids and profile the point in a modified tanto. first step will be a simple cut 45* to the spine. this will give a sharp point that will cut all the way to the tip. it seems like a good idea for a machete but may bend on impact so I'll evaluate and modify as I go along.
next step is I'm trying to decide whether to just leave the straight angle or curve it a bit. the tanto design's main strength is not for penetration as most people believe but to have a sturdy secondary "point" that cuts when slashing. seems tailor made for a tool like a machete but again, we'll see...
and finally, I'm going to make a new handle out of some scrap 1/2" kiln dried maple I have lying around. I'll use the original plastic one as a pattern for the general size and hole spacing but contour it more to my liking...
Saw, Axe, or Machete...
I've been doing a lot of hiking and overnights, and all I had with me at most was my Esee 4. But about two months ago, I seriously started to kick it up a notch with my "edged tools" requirements. And I've decided to go this route...
My main knife will be a Survive GSO 5.1 with the GSO 4.1 as a secondary. The 4.1 is being made as I type (should have it to my door step by the end of the month), and the 5.1 will be in production mid to end of Feb. and should be in my hand by mid March.
I've just bought two axes from Gransfors Bruks. Their Scandinavian Axe and Wildlife Hatchet. Those will be my main edge tool to process firewood when doing some overnight camping.
Since everyone loves pictures, here are the axes.
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8900/rxfo.png
That doesn't mean I don't think a saw is useful. I did buy a Bahco Laplander, but I just haven't had the need to use it at all.
My reasons for going this route is as follows.
Since I live in a more wooded region, it makes more sense to have an axe than a machete.
I'm not what I like to call a "P.O.P", paranoid obsessive prepper, But I do like being prepared. In the picture is my EDC bag, which contains the necessities that I might need to get me home from work if I need to hoof it.
The distance that I would need to travel is about 7 miles if I walk the roads, but if I have to avoid people, then it's a 12-15 mile hike through wooded areas and forest along the Potomac River. I won't be carrying my scandi axe on a daily, but the wildlife hatchet does tuck-away nicely and discreetly in the bag.
So my edge tools will eventually be
small & medium size knife (machete like)
hatchet (axe)
folding saw (saw)
That doesn't mean I'm not going to get a machete just to get one though. My parents have their dual citizenship, and they are currently in the Philippines and will be back in June. I've asked my dad to go to one of the native blacksmiths to make a couple machetes to take back with him, a golok and a bolo style machete. And if he see's that they also make a parang style, to get that for me as well. There's a US based website called filipinobolos.com that sells some quality machetes, but I think they are overpriced for what they are really worth.
I've just bought two axes from Gransfors Bruks. Their Scandinavian Axe and Wildlife Hatchet. Those will be my main edge tool to process firewood when doing some overnight camping.
Since everyone loves pictures, here are the axes.
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8900/rxfo.png
cool pack - what is it?
and, uh, did you sink the tip of that axe into the table??? :blink:
cool pack - what is it?
and, uh, did you sink the tip of that axe into the table??? :blink:
It's a Tactical Tailor/Milspec Monkey Adapt Pack.
Nope, the table is actually a butchers block island that I don't use for meal prepping. It's two pieces of wood and right down the middle is a gap. Hard to tell in the pic, part of the illusion.
SeriousStudent
01-09-14, 22:38
cool pack - what is it?
and, uh, did you sink the tip of that axe into the table??? :blink:
Hahaha - I was thinking exactly the same thing! "His old lady is going to kick his ass!" :stop:
K.L. Davis
01-09-14, 23:36
Spending most of my time in the deserts of Southern Arizona... this is where I am on the subject.
First off, I find that more and more, I want to carry less and less... and I will gladly give up some things to make more room for water! That said, I find I carry:
A small fixed blade for most chores - I am partial to the ESEE Izula II, the DPx HEST and HEFT4, and small knife I made that looks a lot like those other three.
A short machete or camp knife - here I tend to use a Marbles Camp Knife that I rehandled or a modified OKT 12" Machete.
In addition to these, I also carry a SAK OHT and a folding saw. These few tools serve me very well.
Oh, I have that MM/TT pack as well, love it so far!
http://darkmountainresearch.com/designated_hitter/images/mmttpack.jpg
Hahaha - I was thinking exactly the same thing! "His old lady is going to kick his ass!" :stop:
LOL you should've seen the text when I sent a picture via phone.
Oh, I have that MM/TT pack as well, love it so far!
It's a great pack. I'm actually contemplating on buying another one in the Urban color.
LOL you should've seen the text when I sent a picture via phone.
It's a great pack. I'm actually contemplating on buying another one in the Urban color.
going to the site it says packs in all colors except black and urban are: Availability: This product is no longer in stock with those attributes but is available with others
any idea what that means???
Spending most of my time in the deserts of Southern Arizona... this is where I am on the subject.
First off, I find that more and more, I want to carry less and less... and I will gladly give up some things to make more room for water! That said, I find I carry:
A small fixed blade for most chores - I am partial to the ESEE Izula II, the DPx HEST and HEFT4, and small knife I made that looks a lot like those other three.
A short machete or camp knife - here I tend to use a Marbles Camp Knife that I rehandled or a modified OKT 12" Machete.
In addition to these, I also carry a SAK OHT and a folding saw. These few tools serve me very well.
Oh, I have that MM/TT pack as well, love it so far!
http://darkmountainresearch.com/designated_hitter/images/mmttpack.jpg
how does this pack compare in size with something like the Eagle AIII?..
going to the site it says packs in all colors except black and urban are: Availability: This product is no longer in stock with those attributes but is available with others
any idea what that means???
Dangit! It probably means he's got zero of those particular bags in stock.
If you want a black one, you can get the TT version http://www.tacticaltailor.com/removableoperatorpack.aspx
The straps are a little different, but still the same pack.
I believe the EAIII pack is a little bit bigger. My friend has one, but I haven't gotten around to bring my pack over to compare the two.
K.L. Davis
01-10-14, 15:23
I'd say about 2/3 the size of the Eagle AIII, gives up some room in width... it is bigger than the Kifaru E&E and made from lighter material (550D I think)... just a really nice size and weight for a small pack.
Just spoke with MM and he says the MC and other colors will be back in by the end of the month.
I'd say about 2/3 the size of the Eagle AIII, gives up some room in width... it is bigger than the Kifaru E&E and made from lighter material (550D I think)... just a really nice size and weight for a small pack.
Just spoke with MM and he says the MC and other colors will be back in by the end of the month.
damn it! now that means another pack to buy... :cool:
and I don't need another MC pack, I have plenty that are larger, I actually want that Urban one to replace the BFG Covert that I, uh, borrowed from my wife for a "gethome" bag...
Dangit! It probably means he's got zero of those particular bags in stock.
If you want a black one, you can get the TT version http://www.tacticaltailor.com/removableoperatorpack.aspx
The straps are a little different, but still the same pack.
I believe the EAIII pack is a little bit bigger. My friend has one, but I haven't gotten around to bring my pack over to compare the two.
the black is in stock as is the Urban, which I want.
I understand this pack is an collaboration/adaptation of the TT Removable Operator Pack. any idea exactly how they differ???
VooDoo6Actual
01-13-14, 00:15
For those who have not seen this he shows shows pretty decent tradcraft & skillets w/ an Axe in this video. he pretty handy w/ the other tools as well.
Tune into to about 5:07 marker for some pretty good notching techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss
this guy has MAD skills....
Part ll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3NRdZ8J24Q
BTW, Those "GB" Axes are sweet.
Have a Small Forrest Axe that rocks big time.
I would go real Nepalese kukri. Hand-forged spring steel... I once used my beater to absolutely wreck a Chevy S-10 in a junkyard and the blade was FINE. Do that with any stock-removal kukri. I'm also a huge fan of Condor machetes. I stay away from Cold Steel. Ontario is hit and miss - sometimes they treat their steel too hard, making it brittle - but if you get a good one, they're just about indestructible. Believe it or not, the Ka-Bar made in Taiwan 1065 carbon steel kukri is amazing - especially since you pick one up for around $35.
for those of you who advocate a saw instead of an axe, how do you split wood?
Ray Mears - How to split wood with a saw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOXU0rrqOM&t=40s
Having lived outside for 6 months uninterrupted while I hiked 2,200+ miles from Georgia to Maine, crossing 14 states, and creating many a campfire...
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/at-map.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/at-map.jpg.html)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/IMG_4075.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/IMG_4075.jpg.html)
it is without hesitation that I feel I can fully endorse the Sven Saw.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/Mobile%20Uploads/image-1.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-1.jpg.html)
Ray Mears - How to split wood with a saw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOXU0rrqOM&t=40s
this guy forgot more stuff than I'll ever know...
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