View Full Version : NC Highway Patrol M&P trouble
Amp Mangum
08-16-13, 08:18
Having problems with the "Extractor port".
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/north-carolina-troopers-replace-nearly-2000-guns/nZP93/
http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/North-Carolina-Highway-Patrol-Smith-Wesson-MP357-MP15_1507-1.html
Having problems with the "Extractor port".
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/north-carolina-troopers-replace-nearly-2000-guns/nZP93/
http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/North-Carolina-Highway-Patrol-Smith-Wesson-MP357-MP15_1507-1.html
Ya, they were in .357 SIG and didn't run all that well. A mod on here knows much more about it than anyone else.
S&W has long since discontinued the .357 SIG M&P's (FYI).
C4
By Tenikka Smith
CHARLOTTE, N.C. —
The North Carolina Highway Patrol is looking to replace the nearly 2,000 guns its troopers carry.
Eyewitness News learned a mechanical problem led to the change, and the cash-strapped agency is working on a way to pay for it.
Larry Hyatt, owner of Hyatt Gun Shop, said Smith and Wesson's line of military and police handguns are a popular choice for law enforcement agencies.
"Vast majority of our law enforcement agencies pick the .9mm or the .40, the .357 Sig is a hybrid between the two," Hyatt said.
The North Carolina Highway Patrol purchased the Smith and Wesson's M&P .357 Sig pistols in September 2009.
But two years later, some troopers started having mechanical issues with the extractor port.
"Any semiautomatic pistol, like this M&P, when you fire the gun the bullet comes out the barrel, but it has to pull the empty casing and throw it out the way so it can grab another round and put it in the chamber. If that doesn't happen, the gun jams," Hyatt said.
Eyewitness News spoke to NCHP spokesman First Sgt. Jeff Gordon via Facetime. He said 1,649 uniformed members carry the pistols, but the agency did not feel the need to do a mass withdrawal since not all of the guns have the issue, and all troopers are trained on how to handle jams.
"It has not posted a safety risk for the troopers,” Gordon said. "One of the things we teach our troopers to do when we go through annual firearms training is that we use the ‘Tap, Rack, Ready’ method. This allows troopers to safely and quickly clear their weapons so another bullet can be fed into the chamber.”
Gordon said the Highway Patrol has been working closely with Smith and Wesson, but they have not come up with a solution. The agency is now testing models from other companies as well.
The Highway Patrol hopes to have a replacement picked soon. Once it is selected, it will still take several months for the guns to be distributed and for troopers to train and certify on the new weapons.
If the NCHP stays with Smith & Wesson, the old guns will be traded in for new guns at no cost. If they chose another vendor, they may be able to trade but will likely have to pay. Money for the new guns will come from asset forfeitures from drug seizures and other crimes, the Highway Patrol said.
So, it appears S&W will replace at no charge. Sounds like great customer service to me!!!
Hopefully, S&W will offer replacement with 9mm or .40.....
S&W has long since discontinued the .357 SIG M&P's (FYI).
They are still shown on the S&W website....LINK (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765669_-1_757956_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
And Buds seems to have them in stock....LINK (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/83875/Smith+%26+Wesson+307705+M%26P+Used+357+Sig+Sauer+3.5%22+15%2B1+Polym)
Ya, they were in .357 SIG and didn't run all that well. A mod on here knows much more about it than anyone else.
S&W has long since discontinued the .357 SIG M&P's (FYI).
C4
Good to know Grant. I was wondering if it was a cartridge issue. Someone must have a honking big stockpile of that to have considered that caliber in the first place!
Amp Mangum
08-16-13, 10:35
.357 Sig is an answer in search of a question. They would be better served switching to the M&P 9mm full size and picking a bonded bullet.
NC Dept of Revenue issues Glocks in .357 Sig and they are having issues too.
Smith still sells them according to my source there. They just sold a bunch to another SHP down south. They had a lot of issues with that particular gun, but they have been (reportedly to me) been fixed. I am not a fan of the caliber and agree that a full size 9mm with a bonded round is an excellent choice for a large LE agency.
Glock must be anxious pounce and take this one like they took Atlanta PD from S&W recently.
bluejackets92fs
08-16-13, 20:00
I'd be kinda interested to see what the curve is on Glock vs S&W in terms of LE contracts. I'd imagine Glock has a decent lead but S&W has to be closing that gap quickly.
High Tower
08-16-13, 21:27
They are still shown on the S&W website....LINK (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765669_-1_757956_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
And Buds seems to have them in stock....LINK (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/83875/Smith+%26+Wesson+307705+M%26P+Used+357+Sig+Sauer+3.5%22+15%2B1+Polym)
Yeah they were discontinued well over a year ago. No one knows why S&W refuses to take it off their website. My thinking is that they just want to make their dealers look like tards.
Bud's prolly still has them cause they never were a very hot seller and they are priced too high. CDNN had a bunch for awhile but at least they were priced to sell.
My understanding is that NCHP got a good price to switch from Sig P229 to an S&W package that included the pistols and M&P15 carbines for every trooper. Thus, I'm betting that they will take the no-cost caliber switch offer from S&W, and I'll double down on a kidney that they choose 40S&W.
A credible source told me they are going back to Sig.
Alpha Sierra
08-17-13, 09:32
and I'll double down on a kidney that they choose 40S&W.
I couldn't care less what caliber cops in any place choose to use.
But look at this from a business point of view.....
1. The NCSHP does not want to spend any more money than necessary to fix this issue.
2. S&W does not want to spend any more money than necessary to fix this issue.
If I was the S&W project manager in charge of this agency's business, I'd propose a one for one barrel/slide exchange from .357 SIG to .40 S&W.
The Highway Patrol gets to keep its existing frames and magazines, S&W's loss is much less than it would be if the HP chose the M&P9.
SpeedRacer
08-17-13, 09:34
I don't doubt that S&W fixed the issues long ago. The real tragedy here is that a) it took them this long to put enough rounds through the pistols to discover the failures and b) the Chief's fairly nonchalant attitude towards his officers carrying known bad pistols, basically saying "Oh it's cool we teach them tap rack bang, so it's not a big deal if the guns frequently malfunction."
Hopefully, S&W will offer replacement with 9mm or .40.....
They are still shown on the S&W website....LINK (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765669_-1_757956_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
And Buds seems to have them in stock....LINK (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/83875/Smith+%26+Wesson+307705+M%26P+Used+357+Sig+Sauer+3.5%22+15%2B1+Polym)
.40 is a simple barrel swap. something makes me think this is the reverse of the way S&W created their 357SIG version - just a simple barrel swap on the .40 version.
my SIG P229 eats .40 and 357 back to back with no hiccups with just a barrel swap but all things may not be so simple with the M&P...
Gary1911A1
08-18-13, 07:13
With FN being in NC this may be a chance for them to get a major LE Agency to adopt the FNS, but if S&W is offering to replace their current M&P 357Sig with another caliber then I think the only question would be what caliber?
[QUOTE=Gary1911A1;1723921]With FN being in NC this may be a chance for them to get a major LE Agency to adopt the FNS, but if S&W is offering to replace their current M&P 357Sig with another caliber then I think the only question would be what caliber?[/QUOTE
FN is in Columbia, SC.
Gary1911A1
08-18-13, 08:15
[QUOTE=Gary1911A1;1723921]With FN being in NC this may be a chance for them to get a major LE Agency to adopt the FNS, but if S&W is offering to replace their current M&P 357Sig with another caliber then I think the only question would be what caliber?[/QUOTE
FN is in Columbia, SC.
You are correct Sir. My Bad.
They love the .357 and are not changing caliber. From what I have been told it is going to be a 226, just like NC Fish and Wildlife carry.
Hopefully, S&W will offer replacement with 9mm or .40.....
They are still shown on the S&W website....LINK (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765669_-1_757956_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
And Buds seems to have them in stock....LINK (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/83875/Smith+%26+Wesson+307705+M%26P+Used+357+Sig+Sauer+3.5%22+15%2B1+Polym)
That's a USED one.
They love the .357 and are not changing caliber. From what I have been told it is going to be a 226, just like NC Fish and Wildlife carry.
I'd be interested to hear about your source on this. It would be an interesting switch; Sig P229 to M&P, then back to a Sig but the larger P226.
Salamander
08-18-13, 23:33
.357 Sig is an answer in search of a question. They would be better served switching to the M&P 9mm full size and picking a bonded bullet.
NC Dept of Revenue issues Glocks in .357 Sig and they are having issues too.
The only place I use .357 Sig is in my woods gun. Out in the backcountry I'm far more likely to encounter a feral hog or a wandering rottweiler from some meth lab (that's already happened twice) than a serious human threat. The ranges also tend to be much longer. For that, I like the fast, flat-shooting round, I know from experience that I'm able to hit point of aim at 50 meters.
I never carry it in town though, for that it's 9mm or .45 acp.
I've had no reliability problems in a HK P2000 (also now discontinued) after 2,000 rounds. The cost of ammo is an issue for practice, .357 Sig FMJ averages about 62-77 cents/rd here. The muzzle flash/blast starts to get on my nerves at a long range session though. It's mostly psychological, I find the recoil to be faster but lighter than with .40 in that gun, I have a spare barrel and have compared them one right after the other. Interestingly, I tend to shoot the .357 Sig better outdoors than at the indoor range, outdoors I don't notice the muzzle flash.
Dave Williams
08-19-13, 20:58
Sig is really kicking some ass with State agencies. Connecticut
, Indiana, now NC. A small neighboring agency just selected P226 in .40SW.
Sig is really kicking some ass with State agencies. Connecticut
, Indiana, now NC. A small neighboring agency just selected P226 in .40SW.
SIG has had CSP since they adopted the 229 .40 in 1996, don't know I'd consider them a new feather in the hat.
Dave Williams
08-20-13, 09:50
Ah ok my bad.
I heard it from factory reps who call on me. I have not confirmed the actual model number from the guy I know at SHP. They had 229 DAKs prior to this. I do know they have no intention of switching caliber. This may change, but it is really macht nichts as it has no effect on me.
Dave Williams
08-21-13, 12:38
Spoke to an Ohio State Trooper yesterday. They have P226 .40 two tone DAK w/ night sights. Really expensive duty gun! The Trooper really likes the DAK better than the old P226 DAOs they had.
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