View Full Version : Tell Me I'm Stupid or Not - Waffen Werks AK74
Like all of us. Ammo prices are killing me. Thus, I've been looking hard at 5.45x39 so I can shoot. Initially I started looking at an AR based upper - but lack of manufacturers, support and mag issues have me questioning that approach. Any weapon I buy has to first meet the requirement of "would I rely upon it?" I do not want any weapon to simply be a "range toy".
Not being a total noob to the AK system, I started investigating. The majority of reviews are very positive to the Waffen Werks AK-74. Yes I know, US build and US barrel (chrome lined). From reviews, I can't see the justification for an Arsenal/Fime SLG31 based rifle. I have seen one report of bad craftsmanship on a WW but overwhelming very good quality.
I keep wavering between platform familarity vs. reliablity. I think this would be good to practice on an alternate system. I'm willing to learn and master a different platform - which I think is better for me in the long run of defense mastery.
What say you? I appreciate this site's expert opinion. It has led me on a "quality vs. cost" path in the past.
I've got one and while only having 1500rds thru it as of now I will say it shoots great! Very smooth, reliable. Doesn't like pro mags tho so stick to Bulgarians. Got a couple of 45rd mags for it and a bi pod and dressed it up like a RPK.
Waffen Werks is known for making quality guns.
I have a Waffen Werks 74 that I bought last year for right around $700 from Atlantic. Unfortunately it's only seen about 30 rounds so far, but I can say that it's a very well put together AK. Everything is nice and tight and the numbers all match on the Bulgarian parts. The gunkote finish looks great is a nice feature not found on some of the more expensive guns like Arsenals. It does have a US made barrel, but that's a given now on all but a handful of AKs. I'd say it hits a nice sweet spot in terms of price and quality that few other AKs offer.
Your first paragraph prompts me to believe that you are stupid.
(Hey, YOU asked.)
Your first paragraph prompts me to believe that you are stupid.
(Hey, YOU asked.)
Classy Gary. Please enlighten me with your brilliance.
WW is just a little west of me, and I have seen a lot of his 74's. In this market, its a solid rifle for the money. Buy one, and Wideners has 545 in stock.
Yep thanks guys for your input. This seems to be the typical response concerning WW. Nice thing is it seems quite common for most guys to be into round counts in the thousands with no or very little issues. As mentioned, I'd be going strictly with the Bulgarian Circle 10 or 21 mags for reliability (Classic Arms has them at $99/4pack and were $79/4 pack). Not cheap but not bad either considering quality mag availability seems to be the weak spot in the chain. Sure will be a lot cheaper to shoot than the BCM or Romy G.
Mauser KAR98K
08-19-13, 15:16
If you are looking for one for cheap to get more ammo, it is great. love mine. Shoots very nice. Very tight too.
If you want it to be reliable and shoot gaggzooks amount of ammo, or worried about SHTF stuff, get the Arsenal. You honestly can't go wrong with either one.
(And now 5.45 just got more expensive with another 74 sold). hehehe.
I was seriously debating the 5.45 platform, possibly in a Waffen Werks weapon. Ultimately I went with an Arsenal in 7.62 because I know stores carry that caliber and Magpul will be releasing their mags for it soon (hopefully). I'd still like one of these though but an RSO at the club I shoot at was saying that all surplus Russian ammo that's been imported in the last decade or so is all steel core. Is that true? I know my specific range doesn't allow steel core, nor do the other two in my area.
I was seriously debating the 5.45 platform, possibly in a Waffen Werks weapon. Ultimately I went with an Arsenal in 7.62 because I know stores carry that caliber and Magpul will be releasing their mags for it soon (hopefully). I'd still like one of these though but an RSO at the club I shoot at was saying that all surplus Russian ammo that's been imported in the last decade or so is all steel core. Is that true? I know my specific range doesn't allow steel core, nor do the other two in my area.
It's not steel core, it's a bimetal jacket. It will stick to a magnet though, because there is steel in the alloy. You can buy domestic ammo from companies like American Eagle though. There are also other non-bimetal options, but they can be expensive.
High Tower
08-19-13, 17:17
I have no personal experience with Waffen Werks, but this seems like a good deal:
http://www.classicfirearms.com/ak74riflewuspartsw1magonlycodeb
The stocks are not the greatest, but the price is right.
plouffedaddy
08-19-13, 19:02
My review is below; should give you an idea of what to expect.
I've got a couple---0 issues to date.
Mrgunsngear Channel WW74 HD Video Review Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf54SR4Utw)
Do it!
I was in the exact same boat a month or so ago. I too pondered the 5.45x39 upper, but really I wanted a platform that was designed and proven for the round.
I originally searched for an aresenal mainly because I wanted a 100 series side folder stock. I stumbled upon an older red jacket build that was identical to the SGL-31/94 I was after. It was also $300 less than what an arsenal would have cost me. Seeing as most high end AK 74's were up in price it was worth it and a good deal.
Then centerfiresystems came out with the grade B wood WW 74's for $599. I could have slapped a $100 arsenal stock set on it and had a solid rifle for $700 and saved some $$. Oh well... I still have my side folder :D.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/image_zpsb517eb34.jpg
I just ran it through a VSM class this weekend and I could not be happier with it. To me it proved the setup. Not only did mine function flawlessly, the 3 other AK's in class held their own. 1 also being the instructors. 2 things I wanted to change after class. The honkin muzzle brake and safety selector.
It's not steel core, it's a bimetal jacket. It will stick to a magnet though, because there is steel in the alloy. You can buy domestic ammo from companies like American Eagle though. There are also other non-bimetal options, but they can be expensive.
Derailing a bit, but do you know if that's why steel core rounds aren't usually allowed?
My review is below; should give you an idea of what to expect.
I've got a couple---0 issues to date.
Mrgunsngear Channel WW74 HD Video Review Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf54SR4Utw)
Do it!
I was in the exact same boat a month or so ago. I too pondered the 5.45x39 upper, but really I wanted a platform that was designed and proven for the round.
I originally searched for an aresenal mainly because I wanted a 100 series side folder stock. I stumbled upon an older red jacket build that was identical to the SGL-31/94 I was after. It was also $300 less than what an arsenal would have cost me. Seeing as most high end AK 74's were up in price it was worth it and a good deal.
Then centerfiresystems came out with the grade B wood WW 74's for $599. I could have slapped a $100 arsenal stock set on it and had a solid rifle for $700 and saved some $$. Oh well... I still have my side folder :D.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/image_zpsb517eb34.jpg
I just ran it through a VSM class this weekend and I could not be happier with it. To me it proved the setup. Not only did mine function flawlessly, the 3 other AK's in class held their own. 1 also being the instructors. 2 things I wanted to change after class. The honkin muzzle brake and safety selector.
Good substantial stuff guys. Thanks very much.
1. P-Daddy:
- Your video was one of the reasons I started to consider the WW. I think I first stumbled across it at AKFiles - good stuff and great job reviewing.
2. Miller:
a.) Thanks very good comments on your thought process and congrats on finding a good reliable rifle.
b.) $599 Classic Firearms Deal:
- The only reason I really hesitated was a recent report (June 2013 delivery) ( http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152797 )of a WW from Classic (never specified which "grade level" it was) with poor fitment, stiff action, etc. Good news is this is one of only a couple poor reports on WW quality I find.
- I see WW is now bending their own receivers instead of using NoDaks.
- I wonder if the "questionable" rifles with dimensional "issues" end up as "Grade B" stock/hardware special price rifles?
- Someone had mentioned they believed Atlantic might receive the cream of the crop backed with Atlantic inspecting each rifle prior to shipment - however, I admit, that is heresy on my behalf - just throwing it out for discussion.
3.) My math (excuse any mistakes and deletions of shipping/misc. fees):
- Arsenal SGL31-69 @ $1300
- WW-74 Full Price @ $800
- Bulgy Circle 10/21 Mags (4@$100 x 3 = 12 total) @ $300
- Surplus Corrosive Ammo (1080 spam can) @ @$225 high end
- Total @ $1325
So before shipping. Break even with a basic minimum 12 each (IMO - I want personal carry + back-up. I'll likely use commercial grade mags for range/screwing around to save the good 'uns) quality mag set and 1k ammo. If quality is on par for the reviews, it's a hell of value.
Atlantic has them for $700 right now.
Atlantic has them for $700 right now.
Wake, can I get a link please? I refreshed their site, but didn't see it. Thanks.
Whoops, nevermind. $799 as you stated, my mistake.
It's not steel core, it's a bimetal jacket. It will stick to a magnet though, because there is steel in the alloy. You can buy domestic ammo from companies like American Eagle though. There are also other non-bimetal options, but they can be expensive.
Derailing a bit, but do you know if that's why steel core rounds aren't usually allowed?
Good question. Pesawar is correct (AFAIK for 7.62) and been through this before for some shoots... Some RO's will use a magnet to DQ ammo. For the life of me, I cannot find the a great article on this very issue. It is the perfect thing to show a grumpy RO regarding bimetal.
Most steel core will divot the AR500 plates which they do not like = ricochets.
Whoops, nevermind. $799 as you stated, my mistake.
Dammin't Wake you owe me $99 :D
ETA or 4 x Circle 10/21 mags -ha.
Or an EXTRA ETA- you owe me 99 cheap ass beers at Hooters.
Good question. Pesawar is correct (AFAIK for 7.62) and been through this before for some shoots... Some RO's will use a magnet to DQ ammo. For the life of me, I cannot find the a great article on this very issue. It is the perfect thing to show a grumpy RO regarding bimetal.
Most steel core will divot the AR500 plates which they do not like = ricochets.
Yep. In SoCal and other areas where outdoor ranges can get very dry, the ranges often will ban bimetal and steel core ammo because it represents a fire hazard. It really does, too. Several fires have resulted from misses hitting rocks and sparking dried foliage. Hornady makes a premium priced ammo that I believe utilizes their AMAX bullets in both 7.62 and 5.45 which you can purchase that will allow you to shoot at these ranges. Not cheap though. But it might be a good option if you're just getting a rough zero before a class or if you're going to be using that ammo for hunting or HD and you want to get your rifle sighted in.
As far as I know, and someone here may jump in an correct me, true steel core ammo in AK calibers is no longer commercially available in the US. It's designated as armor piercing, and banned from commercial sale. Every now and again some appears on gunbroker, and I've seen pictures of people's stashes of it. I think Norinco had a popular steel core round for a while. The ranges don't really differentiate much between bimetal and steel core. They just typically use a magnet and stick it on the bullet (not the case, because the cases are almost all steel). If it sticks, no bueno. If not, you're gtg. Hope that's accurate and it helps.
My WW AK74 has gone through almost a tin of ammo since I got it last December. Mags are tight but it's been reliable with no trouble for the 800 rounds I've put through it so far.
Comm-bloc ammo: 7.62x39 steel core was banned from importation in the early 90s because it was being used in 'pistols' thus a bunch of legislators got their panties in a wad and banned the 'cop killer pistol ammo'. 5.45 surplus is lead core with a steel tip and a hollow cavity at the nose. Bimetal jacket. Most foreign commercial ammo for both calibers is lead core with a bimetal jacket.
Oh man, the trouble I gets into when I can't sleep and browse on m4c. Get thee behind me, Visa.
I've been bummed since a local reneged on an Arsenal trade after I had already bought a case of spam and 45 rd mag. But after reading this thread I decided I wanna be stupid too and the pretty plum '74 at under $700 seems like a deal these days.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/wwak74wplumpolystockand30maga1
Taking a flyer that the Bulgy mags are GTG, the accessory kit looked too good to pass up too.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/accessories/ak74accpkgor2
With getting my range card last week and a newly retired brother to shoot with -- life is good. So my Visa and I thank you guys for saving me ~$500 over an Arsenal to get my first taste of commie.
plouffedaddy
08-24-13, 09:11
Good substantial stuff guys. Thanks very much.
1. P-Daddy:
- Your video was one of the reasons I started to consider the WW. I think I first stumbled across it at AKFiles - good stuff and great job reviewing.
Thanks.
2. Miller:
a.) Thanks very good comments on your thought process and congrats on finding a good reliable rifle.
b.) $599 Classic Firearms Deal:
- The only reason I really hesitated was a recent report (June 2013 delivery) ( http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152797 )of a WW from Classic (never specified which "grade level" it was) with poor fitment, stiff action, etc. Good news is this is one of only a couple poor reports on WW quality I find.
- I see WW is now bending their own receivers instead of using NoDaks.
- I wonder if the "questionable" rifles with dimensional "issues" end up as "Grade B" stock/hardware special price rifles?
- Someone had mentioned they believed Atlantic might receive the cream of the crop backed with Atlantic inspecting each rifle prior to shipment - however, I admit, that is heresy on my behalf - just throwing it out for discussion.
3.) My math (excuse any mistakes and deletions of shipping/misc. fees):
- Arsenal SGL31-69 @ $1300
- WW-74 Full Price @ $800
- Bulgy Circle 10/21 Mags (4@$100 x 3 = 12 total) @ $300
- Surplus Corrosive Ammo (1080 spam can) @ @$225 high end
- Total @ $1325
So before shipping. Break even with a basic minimum 12 each (IMO - I want personal carry + back-up. I'll likely use commercial grade mags for range/screwing around to save the good 'uns) quality mag set and 1k ammo. If quality is on par for the reviews, it's a hell of value.
I agree with you there. Hopefully as this shipment of 7N6 sits a little while longer (the retailers seem to be having trouble moving it at ~$220/tin) the ammo will drop down again to around the $175 mark. I don't think we'll ever seen $130/tin prices again but I do think $175 may be doable.
Update. Thank you for your help guys, I appreciate your input and time spent.
Well, I pulled the trigger this week and ordered the Waffen Werks AK-74 from Atlantic. I also picked up 16 of the surplus Bulgy mags (should be the legit Circle 10 and/or 21) from Classic Arms (the 4 pack with pouch deal). Likewise picked up some cases of the surplus 7N6. Now just awaiting delivery within the next couple of days.
I'll explain why I choose to go with Atlantic @ $799 after speaking to Blain there. Note I have no affiliation with Atlantic and this was my first purchase from them. None of the following is completely verifiable, but I found it interesting enough to spend a little more.
As I mentioned in my first post, the overwhelming reviews of the WW were very good and reported good quality. However, it seemed majority of those were from before Sandy Hook or purchased from Atlantic. The reports of poor quality, fitment, canted sights and non-matching parts kits are fairly recent. These issues with fairly recent purchases is what concerned me and thus asked for your opinions.
There were comments in other threads discussing this issue and different posters had mentioned that they thought Atlantic did inspections of the Waffen Werks - thus the better examples from them. I decided to call Atlantic to inquire and spoke with Blain. He explained that they do NOT do any sort of inspections prior to shipment. I then explained why I called and was concerned about the recent quality issues that cropped up from those from Classic. What he explained I found interesting. Apparently, Atlantic had a direct contract with Waffen Werks to build a certain number of rifles just for them. These rifles were built using the parts kits that Waffen had on hand. This is when WW was advertising these as matching parts kits - I forgot to confirm with Blain that their rifles are matching kits - although I assume and hope they are. These were built prior to and right after Sandy Hook. Of course after that chaos ensued within the industry and everyone was cranking stuff out like crazy. He mentioned that Classic then also had WW produce rifles for them under contract during the panic. Apparently, due to shortages, the parts kits WW had were exhausted and Classic began providing their own parts kits to WW for their contract. Classic does list on their site the WW they sell is built on numbers matching kits. But I still wonder about reports of WW rifles which were not numbers matching. Likewise, I can see the panic induced production pace causing some quality issues. The WW AK-74s that Atlantic are selling are the last of the pre/early panic rifle contract. In my mind, combined with nothing but great reports of quality rifles coming out of Atlantic, I thought the price difference was a no brainer. In addition, Blain ensured me if there was any quality issues they would take the rifle back, provide a direct replacement, refund or help me move to a different rifle.
Above is not meant to bad mouth Classic, as I have not bought a rifle from them. The above is just an attempt to add to the data set for evaluation.
So, I will see when it arrives and hope to be pleased.
Oh man, the trouble I gets into when I can't sleep and browse on m4c. Get thee behind me, Visa.
I've been bummed since a local reneged on an Arsenal trade after I had already bought a case of spam and 45 rd mag. But after reading this thread I decided I wanna be stupid too and the pretty plum '74 at under $700 seems like a deal these days.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/wwak74wplumpolystockand30maga1
Taking a flyer that the Bulgy mags are GTG, the accessory kit looked too good to pass up too.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/accessories/ak74accpkgor2
With getting my range card last week and a newly retired brother to shoot with -- life is good. So my Visa and I thank you guys for saving me ~$500 over an Arsenal to get my first taste of commie.
Ha! Yep, exactly. Good deal, I hope all goes well with your purchase. Please post back with your impressions on fit, finish, if number matching, etc. I'll do likewise. I'm really hoping regardless of where you buy all WW are GTG. Enjoy, I think we both made good decisions.
Mauser KAR98K
08-25-13, 02:01
I agree with you there. Hopefully as this shipment of 7N6 sits a little while longer (the retailers seem to be having trouble moving it at ~$220/tin) the ammo will drop down again to around the $175 mark. I don't think we'll ever seen $130/tin prices again but I do think $175 may be doable.
I picked up a tin for $165 at a Durham's the other day. This includes tax.
Good choice and good research before you bought, OP. You will find it shoots and runs great. Don't forget to get a front sight tool.
As long as it's well under half of Lake City 5.56, I'll be picking up spam cases on good deals (Assuming a fond bond w/74).It's so handy not to have to transfer to yet more ammo to cans and monitor dessicants.
I will post range impressions, but with humid temps near 100 the next couple weeks, this retired bod is hunkered down with the A/C.
Exactly. Until 5.56 comes down I'm buying spam cans.
As long as it's well under half of Lake City 5.56, I'll be picking up spam cases on good deals (Assuming a fond bond w/74).It's so handy not to have to transfer to yet more ammo to cans and monitor dessicants.
I will post range impressions, but with humid temps near 100 the next couple weeks, this retired bod is hunkered down with the A/C.
I picked up a tin for $165 at a Durham's the other day. This includes tax.
Good choice and good research before you bought, OP. You will find it shoots and runs great. Don't forget to get a front sight tool .
Thanks for the reminder and damn good deal on the ammo.
So this brings up a question you guys might be able to answer.
Are AK-47 internals compatible with the AK-74 platform (minus bolt I'd guess). I did a weld-build on my Romy G, so I'm fairly familiar with the workings. I have the front sight tool and spare spring and trigger kits (i.e. spare KVAR spring/firing pin kits and the original Romy trigger set - which I switched out for the Tapco G2 trigger). Are these AK-47 internals compatible with the AK-74 platform? From what I can gather - I see yes. However, I'd appreciate some first hand info.
Trigger parts, most springs, and most pins are common between the 74 and the M. Triggers should work between the two. Major differences are the bolt, bolt carrier, gas tube, gas block, and front sight block.
^ Thanks Walleye! Gotta love the simplistic approach of the AK pattern. I've got a Krebs extended selector and trigger pin plate coming - so I should be GTG with those and the spare KVAR springs/triggers I have on hand.
ETA - I guess the proper way to verify is to physically check I what I have on hand for the AKM vs. the new -74 stuff. Regardless, thanks for your feedback.
I picked up a tin for $165 at a Durham's the other day. This includes tax.
OK, I'd like to pick up a tin (or several) for $165. What/where is a Durham's? Thanks!
OK, I'd like to pick up a tin (or several) for $165. What/where is a Durham's? Thanks!
yeah, what he said.
I dont even own a 74 but at $165 Im tempted !
I'm interested to hear your opinions and review when the rifle arrives. I've only had 7.62AK's always wanted a AK74 variant as well.
Have you seen PD's?
http://youtu.be/_nf54SR4Utw
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)
High Tower
08-27-13, 21:29
What/where is a Durham's? Thanks!
Dunham's is a smallish sporting goods chain that have store in Wisconsin, Michigan, and possibly elsewhere. They have decent prices on things for the most part.
ETA: I just saw the spelling was Durham's. Well, if nothing else, ya'll now know what Dunham's is.
Infamous361
09-02-13, 03:47
I bought a Waffen Werks AK74 about 2 years ago from Louisville Patriot Group (Andrew Gailor) and I've put about 700rds through it and I've never had one issue.The fit and finish on the AK are really nice. I would say its on par with my Arsenal SGL31-94. I've used every mag out there from the Circle 10's to the cheapo Promags and all feed perfectly. I've been really happy with it. I would definitely recommend Waffen Werks.
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