View Full Version : Aimpoint Micro/Trijicon RMR question
As usual I am one of the late ones to the party on the new 'cool guy gear'. Will be picking up an RMR this week and sending it off to get milled for a MRDS. Have decided on the Unity Tactical ATOM b/c I do like the modularity of the system when something possibly better (Aimpoint MRDS please) comes down the pipeline.
I was dead set on using the Trijicon RMR. It being smaller and lighter was of course one of the reasons why but the main reason is that from reading some reviews that the tube effect some speak of with the Aimpoint line up is exacerbated while being used on a pistol making the dot slower to pick up than a single lens MRDS. Yet last night I read on 2 other forums that the small round
eye piece lens acts as a sort of a rear sight/reference point for the eye to pick up during presentation making it easier to get on target for some. Thoughts? I do have a good bit of time w/a Glock/RMR combo and am quite used to that setup and will probably start with that first but wanted to know if others have discovered what I've read about using a Micro.
If I go the Aimpoint route then I'll be more than happy to swap out my Micro on my AR and put the RMR on it as I am a fan of MRDSs on a rifle. Plus it'll give me an excuse to try out that GDI lower 1/3 mount. :)
-Jax
*caveat - I shoot a M&P CORE with DeltaPoint.
I really wanted to like the T1 on the Glock, manly as I saw it as offering a more reliable solution than the other options. However shooting a Glock with the T1, it just did not feel "right" to me, I was considerably slower both in drawing and shooting the T1 Glock than a RMR Glock.
That said my experiences was limited to around 50 rds on the T1 gun, but I have vastly more T1 time than RMR or DeltaPoint time, so I had expected me to do better with the T1 on the Glock.
Jax, no T-1 on a pistol experience, but I'll share my thoughts on the RMR for others cruising this thread looking for pistol mounted MRDS info...
1) I find that co-witnessed sights made a tremendous difference in finding the dot in presentation.
2) Staying focused on the target during press out, not moving my eyes to the RMR, brought the dot to center. If I hunted for the dot before I got to full extension, I found that I left the gun pointing high and had to pronate my wrists down to bring the dot into view (this is where the co-witnessed irons helped). This was a hard transition for me as I appendix carry, bring the gun up relatively high upon presentation, and start focusing on my front sight early during press out.
3) Milling the slide and installing sights is the ONLY way to go. This is a time consuming and expensive investment, so be dedicated to it. I'm a meat eating, Ford truck driving, utilitarian, pick a platform and train to it kind of guy. I practice almost daily with a SIRT pistol nowadays to offset ammo cost. I couldn't justify the monetary investment, let alone hitting the training reset button, of outfitting all my Glocks and a SIRT pistol with RMR's, which I feel is necessary if you're considering carrying a MRDS outfitted pistol. In essence, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, for ME.
4) Training, Training, Training... read practice, practice, practice.
To whomever is thinking about adding a MRDS to your pistol, weigh out the pro's and con's. To me cost is a huge factor. You can enroll in a class, buy ammo, fly there, and come out with useful, lifesaving skills for the cost of putting a MRDS on a pistol (the right way). Make sure it fits into your mission, not just your brag box.
Jax... I lied, I have mounted my T-1 on my Ruger 22/45, don't laugh, it's pertinent info! I found it fine for target plinking, but the housing silhouette was more obtrusive compared to the RMR for target transitions. This was only a single trip the range, so take it for what it's worth. You either own a Ruger Mk series, or someone you know owns one, mount your T-1 and try. If you don't have a low mount, PM me, I should have one around here somewhere I can loan you.
That said my experiences was limited to around 50 rds on the T1 gun, but I have vastly more T1 time than RMR or DeltaPoint time, so I had expected me to do better with the T1 on the Glock.
KevinB,
Thanks for the input. I would think this would be my outcome as well. Judging from my time with T1s and the Insight MRDS on ARs I would think the MRDSs would be faster to pick up than the T1. I can pick up the Insight slightly (and I mean incrementally slightly) quicker than my T1. Better put I can pick up the dot further down from the low ready as opposed to the T1. Not enough to switch out the Micro but it is noticeable. This line of thinking should translate over to pistols but from what I was reading on some other forums it got my interest perked on the Micro a bit more.
Jax, no T-1 on a pistol experience, but I'll share my thoughts on the RMR for others cruising this thread looking for pistol mounted MRDS info...
2) Staying focused on the target during press out, not moving my eyes to the RMR, brought the dot to center. If I hunted for the dot before I got to full extension, I found that I left the gun pointing high and had to pronate my wrists down to bring the dot into view (this is where the co-witnessed irons helped). This was a hard transition for me as I appendix carry, bring the gun up relatively high upon presentation, and start focusing on my front sight early during press out......
Jax... I lied, I have mounted my T-1 on my Ruger 22/45, don't laugh, it's pertinent info! I found it fine for target plinking, but the housing silhouette was more obtrusive compared to the RMR for target transitions. This was only a single trip the range, so take it for what it's worth. You either own a Ruger Mk series, or someone you know owns one, mount your T-1 and try. If you don't have a low mount, PM me, I should have one around here somewhere I can loan you.
Excellent points straitR,
I've played with my buddy's RMR equipped Glock (done right by Doug/ATEI) & not focusing on the dot was/is my steepest leaning curve on the gun so far. Definitely takes practice.
And I do have a Ruger Mark 3. ;). The offer is much appreciated bud but the Micro is on my HD AR and I don't have enough red dots to spread the wealth to a .22. :)
-Jax
PatrioticDisorder
08-21-13, 13:11
*caveat - I shoot a M&P CORE with DeltaPoint.
I really wanted to like the T1 on the Glock, manly as I saw it as offering a more reliable solution than the other options. However shooting a Glock with the T1, it just did not feel "right" to me, I was considerably slower both in drawing and shooting the T1 Glock than a RMR Glock.
That said my experiences was limited to around 50 rds on the T1 gun, but I have vastly more T1 time than RMR or DeltaPoint time, so I had expected me to do better with the T1 on the Glock.
How do you like the Deltapoint and what led you to pick the Deltapoint over an RMR? I recently picked up a CORE that is now SPF because I realized I sucked with it compared to irons (had an RMR on top) during my first trip to the range. I'm thinking maybe I would have come to a different conclusion with a deltapoint...
I had a DeltaPoint...
Admittedly I am good friends with Leupold, so I figured I would try this route first.
I noticed that inside 10m (I did my backyard range in Meters as homage to my Canadian heritage :D), I am still getting more accuracy from Irons as far as static shooting goes.
I don't want to sideline this thread, as I was going to make my own, but I think its all relevant.
I shot Todd Green's FAST drills today (7m not yard not that matters) as well as some 10 and 20m accuracy drills (the way my range is setup I can do 0-3m, 7m-30m on this target bank -- I am going to do some work this weekend and try to make it 0 - 30m).
At the 10m line my groups where better with my M&P9C, however at the 20, the CORE/DELTA combo beat it, not by a huge margin though.
Doing the FAST drill - my best score was with the CORE - however the hits where not as neat as the 9C.
However doing shot on the move drills I find a huge gain in both accuracy and time using the CORE.
I am going to do the 300 (was supposed to be today, but lunch got cut short on a phone call for work) tomorrow at lunch (or when I get back from Quantico) and see how the accuracy is at 20yds from both then).
One thing I have noticed - is any shooting past 50m - the CORE/DELTA combo kills my irons in terms of accuracy by a MEASURABLE amount...
PatrioticDisorder
08-21-13, 15:58
I had a DeltaPoint...
Admittedly I am good friends with Leupold, so I figured I would try this route first.
I noticed that inside 10m (I did my backyard range in Meters as homage to my Canadian heritage :D), I am still getting more accuracy from Irons as far as static shooting goes.
I don't want to sideline this thread, as I was going to make my own, but I think its all relevant.
I shot Todd Green's FAST drills today (7m not yard not that matters) as well as some 10 and 20m accuracy drills (the way my range is setup I can do 0-3m, 7m-30m on this target bank -- I am going to do some work this weekend and try to make it 0 - 30m).
At the 10m line my groups where better with my M&P9C, however at the 20, the CORE/DELTA combo beat it, not by a huge margin though.
Doing the FAST drill - my best score was with the CORE - however the hits where not as neat as the 9C.
However doing shot on the move drills I find a huge gain in both accuracy and time using the CORE.
I am going to do the 300 (was supposed to be today, but lunch got cut short on a phone call for work) tomorrow at lunch (or when I get back from Quantico) and see how the accuracy is at 20yds from both then).
One thing I have noticed - is any shooting past 50m - the CORE/DELTA combo kills my irons in terms of accuracy by a MEASURABLE amount...
I find it relevant, not to highjack the OP's thread, but I have one particular question I'm interested in regarding the Deltapoint others may find useful. Do you get any washout with the deltapoint using a weapons light?
I ask because the LED RMRs are known for quickly adjusting (the RMR01 I had mounted definitely did), but I've read Deltapoints tend to adjust slowly although the optic usually errs on the side of being too bright if anything.
No biggie on the Leupold thread drift. Interested as well.
-Jax
Negative on washout issue on the DP unless it is a white background - then I have some trouble in pitch dark - its its not 100% black then you can see the dot on a white background
Of all the MRDS variants I've seen and tried, the DP is my hands down favorite. I find the bigger FOV a huge advantage and considerably more forgiving to small presentation errors and during target transitions. The thinner outline is practically unnoticeable compared to the Trijicon offerings, and I also prefer the 7.5moa triangle to any others I've used.
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