View Full Version : What is the most profound thing you have learned on m4c
I don't start many threads, because I usually find answers to questions with the almighty orange button or reading. As I reach 1000 posts, I have to ask myself, what have I learned in my time here.
More than I can remember to post. But I put this out to you all...
What is the most profound thing you have learned while on m4c?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-21-13, 17:10
Researching every product you buy, comparing them with others like it, will always lead to a happy and informed buyer.
If I plan on spending $100 or more on any product out there, you better believe I am on google searching hundreds of reviews. I picked that habit up while spending time on M4C.
TacticalSledgehammer
08-21-13, 17:19
Excitement over new rifle posts, are considered Facebook status updates.
Doc Safari
08-21-13, 17:21
What is the most profound thing you have learned on m4c
I learned that there really are companies like Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, etc., that make AR's as good as Colt's. When I left the AR hobby many years ago LMT had just barely started making AR's. :D
TacticalSledgehammer
08-21-13, 17:25
I learned that there really are companies like Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, etc., that make AR's as good as Colt's. When I left the AR hobby many years ago LMT had just barely started making AR's. :D
Same here!
Researching every product you buy, comparing them with others like it, will always lead to a happy and informed buyer.
If I plan on spending $100 or more on any product out there, you better believe I am on google searching hundreds of reviews. I picked that habit up while spending time on M4C.
This. I don't buy anything until without tons of research and sometimes not until there's a few YouTube videos.
theblackknight
08-21-13, 17:43
Cult of personality=$
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I learned things are actually much, much worse than I initially believed.
Army Chief
08-21-13, 17:50
Cult of personality=$
You do realize that this more or less begs for an explanation, right?
Shot over the bow, casual observation or something else entirely?
AC
You do realize that this more or less begs for an explanation, right?
Shot over the bow, casual observation or something else entirely?
AC
I think he is just saying if you buy a Colt or HK for no other reason than it's a Colt or HK you can spend a lot of money doing that.
Great research tool and info to help me make my first NFA purchase!
Army Chief
08-21-13, 18:11
SA,
Could be, I suppose. Just didn't see where the "personality" part was supposed to fit, and being a word guy, I can usually figure these kinds of things out. This one just needed another sentence or two.
On that note, however, what I've learned is that there are a lot of really solid, fundamentally good Americans here who genuinely care about their rights, this place and each other. Have seen more of it in action over the past year than I can even begin to recount.
AC
.
I've learned "what" differentiates a good AR from one that just tries to "look" like an AR…
and…
The "Mil-spec" term is abused and often takes advantage of ignorance.
But maybe it's just me...
.
SA,
Could be, I suppose. Just didn't see where the "personality" part was supposed to fit, and being a word guy, I can usually figure these kinds of things out. This one just needed another sentence or two.
AC
It's kinda like the "Colt or HK Kool Aid" expression.
30 cal slut
08-21-13, 19:02
the statement:
"you don't know what you don't know"
is true.
I learned that:
SteyrAug's obsession with movies borders on the unhealthy. (and is quite impressive) :)
AC is one of the most well spoken, level headed individuals to ever grace the Internet, let alone real life.
JSantoro is one of the only people I've ever seen that could insult a man with such eloquence as to be entertaining even to the insultee.
Markm wields an uncanny (and entertaining) mastery over the word ****.
Besides those, I learned there is an unbelievable wealth of knowledge and assistance available to those who can appreciate it. And it happens to come with some good conversation amongst like minded, decent gentlemen.
I learned things are actually much, much worse than I initially believed.
... however, what I've learned is that there are a lot of really solid, fundamentally good Americans here who genuinely care about their rights, this place and each other.
AC
These two things. I've learned more about our history, the role of Govt and the nature of our Founding Fathers' dreams from this forum, than from the previous 35 years of living my life. Not proud to post that, but I'm thankful for the knowledge and patient tutelage found here, and for the impact it has had on me.
sandman99and9
08-21-13, 19:59
Talk about timing, I went over to TOS last night for shits and giggles since I had not been there in over a year and I am sorry I did. I found myself wanting to scream at my comp and throw things.
At least 6-10 threads on what should I buy?/Is Oly, Bushmaster, Stag, just as good as Colt etc.
Thankfully I found M4C and some good people here.
I learned that I have some very like minded people in Florida and I look forward to meeting you guys sometime to shoot, drink, have a cigar or just get roundhouse kicked by SteyrAug :)
Things I have learned here.
********************
Markm's intense love affair with LWRCI rifles. Hahahaha
The chart :)
Your almost as good as a Colt really is not. I never heard of BCM before coming here :(
Do your research, it will save you money and headaches.
Lots of people with tons of first hand experience here. My post count is low because over the years most of my questions have been answered simply by reading.
S.M.
Outsiders may take what we say here as elitist but you really do not know what you don't know.
As much as I spend on AR's & handguns M4C has truly saved me thousands of dollars by allowing me to buy once and experience less crying.
This is also the only forum I've visited to where there are fellas that through a common interest (which IMO) can have sympathy/ empathy for the tough times you may go through. My own drinking problem that I had 3 years ago and was expressed on here left me jobless, without my future bride, and had to sell every firearm but one shotgun, left me over whelmed with the gratitude and help other members offered me. Not to mention (and it dwarfs my ex-drinking problem thread) AC's ongoing thread and the outpour of care and sincere concern for his well being.
Best thing I've learned: There are damn good guys on here and its what keeps me coming here more than anywhere else.
-Jax
Hmmm.
1. Someone always knows more than you.
2. There are tons of SME's running around this forum (without the title).
3. The mods, staff and forum owners cannot be bought.
4. The mods and staff are more knowledgeable on gear guns and training than just about any other forum.
5. More Federal agencies, .Mil groups and foreign military special forces groups reads this forum than most any other place on the net.
6. Being right isn't always a good thing.
C4
Voodoo_Man
08-21-13, 20:44
Less talk more shooting
And
Just because its expensive, shiny, and mass endorsed doesn't mean it'll work for you.
All around solid, as I expected, answers to my question. Thank you all for giving your two cents. I respect this forum of people I have never met, but know from word and deed you are solid individuals that will go the extra mile for a person looking for answers that are not easy to find, and simply out of the goodness of thier heart.
My personal profound moment was realizing that research does save you an ass load of headache and regret and how memebers will help you when your not being a knowitall taint.
Again, thanks and keep this going for everyone on M4C...
Hmmm.
1. Someone always knows more than you.
2. There are tons of SME's running around this forum (without the title).
3. The mods, staff and forum owners cannot be bought.
4. The mods and staff are more knowledgeable on gear guns and training than just about any other forum.
5. More Federal agencies, .Mil groups and foreign military special forces groups reads this forum than most any other place on the net.
6. Being right isn't always a good thing.
C4
Well said Grant.
-Jax
fixit69, who started this thread and I am VERY sure he can empathize with me being from the same state as me......Sadly there are few guys down here that appreciate and truly understand what a truly well made AR15 is made of and how to properly use it.
That being said M4C is truly a great resource to find the right parts, rifles, and training that can rarely be found in rural deer hunting USA and to share that knowledge from person to person at home. Literally just yesterday a guy stopped at my work and asked me (I am my town's local AR nut) what barrel to buy for his new build and he mentioned DPMS. I steered him towards a DD or BCM middy 16". Slowly and surely even in rural USA the word is getting out via sites like M4C.
-Jax
Failure2Stop
08-21-13, 21:01
I was contemplating my response, when this caught me, and cut to the core more succinctly than anything else, especially given the medium:
6. Being right isn't always a good thing.
And I realized that the most important thing that I learned during my tenure here is this:
I'd rather be helpful than just "right".
I will strive to keep this in mind with every post from here forward.
The general idea has always been there, but identifying it and boiling it down is new.
But to touch on what I was initially thinking:
Just because someone bought something that you don't like doesn't mean that they are wrong, stupid, or deserving of being belittled. And the inverse is true as well; just because someone made one good random choice doesn't mean that they hold any special knowledge. Treat people on yet internet like you would in person, and don't take the internet too seriously.
Finally:
Experience trumps theory every day. Numbers are fine, but the shooting is the important bit. Rather than trying to instill your own experiences and preferences, urge folks to gain their own experience, even if they might arrive at different conclusions.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Hmmm.
1. Someone always knows more than you.
6. Being right isn't always a good thing.
C4
Yeah....those two.
Jax, no doubt and +1.
FS2, most awsome sauce indeed. That was excellent.
Styer, just saw it, and agree +1000
Treat people on yet internet like you would in person, and don't take the internet too seriously.
Something we should all consider before hitting the submit button and no matter how dumb the question is Jack you answer with respect to the person no matter how 'newb' they are.
-Jax
AC this is for you. Of the people on this forum, I think you have had the year from hell and I personally belive you should not have had this happen to you. Before this you were, and still are a rock I have listened to and am know trying to emulate. I am just too rough and uncultured to immatate.
Keep being you...
decodeddiesel
08-21-13, 21:42
Go and shoot the gun.
Buy once, cry once.
Never mind buying more guns, ammo and magazines ALWAYS take precedence.
...and finally...
You can never have enough magazines or ammo.
DD, when I was new on this forum I PM'd you some nasty stuff.
I appologize for that.
Another thing that goes with the being a knowitall taint like I was. Good to hear your reply
decodeddiesel
08-21-13, 21:53
Water under the bridge, it was a long time ago. Apology accepted.
Cool thread, Man.
theblackknight
08-21-13, 22:59
You do realize that this more or less begs for an explanation, right?
Shot over the bow, casual observation or something else entirely?
AC
One minute, a company is throwing (great)rifles out of a bird and chooting them with buckshot and they are great. Then they hire some bald guy to ninja kick over bails of hey and I'm like :stop:
Here, Iv'e found that if right out of the gate, someone doesn't like, or approve of M4C, then I will not be giving/receiving advice from/to them. From then on, whatever they say, just seems to tell me what they REALLY KNOW. I will for the sake of my blood pressure, not discuss weapons quality at all with them. There are those who just plain think they know everything there is to know, and don't want to ruin their attitude about themselves. It didn't take me too long to figure out who REALLY knew their shit here either, just by reading.
(Of course, I didn't find this place, until AFTER, I bought my "OLY")
So are you saying that Daniel Defense suddenly isn't good anymore because of R.P? I generally don't buy shit just because celebrity XXX recommends it. If it works and fits my need ok, if not then I look for something else.
However, if there is a need for that item I have no problem giving it a try. I guess I am "bewildered" by your statement.
One minute, a company is throwing (great)rifles out of a bird and chooting them with buckshot and they are great. Then they hire some bald guy to ninja kick over bails of hey and I'm like :stop:
Army Chief
08-22-13, 05:52
One minute, a company is throwing (great)rifles out of a bird and chooting them with buckshot and they are great. Then they hire some bald guy to ninja kick over bails of hey and I'm like :stop:
Ok, now I'm tracking. Just wasn't sure at first if we we talking about trainers, manufacturers, a particular product, a broader social phenomenal or just engaging in a bit of playful hyperbole. Getting the larger context definitely helps, thanks.
AC
RobS chart and Docs gelatin tests.
The "I don't know what I don't know" certainly applied to me 4 years ago when I joined here.
Besides the hands on experience, most everything I've learned about ARs has been gleaned from this site.
Profound? Maybe. Important? Without a doubt.
I much appreciate the people here that didn't treat me like I was a foolish no-nothing and helped me along the way.
There were some that didn't care for my noobness though.
I got robs'd quite a number of times.
:D
I was contemplating my response, when this caught me, and cut to the core more succinctly than anything else, especially given the medium:
And I realized that the most important thing that I learned during my tenure here is this:
I'd rather be helpful than just "right".
I will strive to keep this in mind with every post from here forward.
The general idea has always been there, but identifying it and boiling it down is new.
But to touch on what I was initially thinking:
Just because someone bought something that you don't like doesn't mean that they are wrong, stupid, or deserving of being belittled. And the inverse is true as well; just because someone made one good random choice doesn't mean that they hold any special knowledge. Treat people on yet internet like you would in person, and don't take the internet too seriously.
Finally:
Experience trumps theory every day. Numbers are fine, but the shooting is the important bit. Rather than trying to instill your own experiences and preferences, urge folks to gain their own experience, even if they might arrive at different conclusions.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Being helpful to people (VS being right) goes MUCH FARTHER than anything else and is what people remember about you.
C4
Army Chief
08-22-13, 08:24
Spot-on.
I've always maintained that the affable guy who doesn't have his facts quite right is to be preferred over the arrogant prick who draws from the font of all-knowledge. Simple ignorance is correctable. Blatant arrogance often is not.
Folks don't care what you know if they know that you don't care. Semi-cheesy, perhaps, but still true. How you say what you've got to say matters every bit as much as the content that you choose to deliver.
AC
I've liked what Grant and F2S has had to say.
Here's what I've learned and it will echo alot what others have said:
1). Lots and lots of info here and NOT just on the AR platform and from people who know what they are talking about ( i.e. SME's, trainers, mil/leo etc).
2). Skill>Gear: Training and time behind the gun is key.
3). Better to have lots of ammo and more mags than more guns.
4). This kinda goes with number 2. Know what you buy and why you are buying it. Ex: Buying a $100 comp for a self defense gun or fighting rifle when an A2 would have done a better job for that role especially for $8. Money is better spent on training, ammo, or mags. If you are piling things on a rifle to try and make yourself better, you're probably going about it the wrong way. See number 2.
Being helpful to people (VS being right) goes MUCH FARTHER than anything else and is what people remember about you.
C4
Very, very, well stated Grant. Your one I have learned quite a lot from. A great BIG "THANK YOU", to those of you who have this attitude.
I guess I am "bewildered" by your statement.
Don't worry, it happens to everyone. For some reason his preferred method of communication is often nearly indecipherable encryption of some sort.
Should also add that I will certainly agree about the overall environment being second to none here. Hard to imagine a better place to exchange knowledge and dialog for any venue let alone our most preferred.
I've liked what Grant and F2S has had to say.
Here's what I've learned and it will echo alot what others have said:
1). Lots and lots of info here and NOT just on the AR platform and from people who know what they are talking about ( i.e. SME's, trainers, mil/leo etc).
2). Skill>Gear: Training and time behind the gun is key.
3). Better to have lots of ammo and more mags than more guns.
4). This kinda goes with number 2. Know what you buy and why you are buying it. Ex: Buying a $100 comp for a self defense gun or fighting rifle when an A2 would have done a better job for that role especially for $8. Money is better spent on training, ammo, or mags. If you are piling things on a rifle to try and make yourself better, you're probably going about it the wrong way. See number 2.
Nice.
Since some have touched on it already, I am going to run with it. :D
Working in a gun store, I have seen countless folks come in and buy gun after gun after gun, but when a local training opportunity becomes available, said person never has any money for the class. It makes no sense to me to own guns that you have no idea how to properly use!
It is better to have purchased ONE GUN and then spent your remaining money on training and ammo than it is to have ONE HUNDRED guns and not know how to use them.
C4
In my time here, I have learned the following -
Not all AR's are created equal. "The Chart" put this easily into perspective for me in a way I could never express before seeing it, and the explanation of features gave it susbtantive meaning and depth.
Not all bullets are created equal. DocGKR explained the theory behind terminal ballistics, offered technical information and evidence, and an enormous amount of controlled testing.
Failure2Stop is always right. Pretty much anything that Jack Leuba says is solid gold and should be immediately embraced.
Gear selection should be requirements based. Gear needs to be quality stuff that will do what you need it to do. It's a simple thought but so many people pick gear based on how it looks and feels, instead of how it will perform.
Shooting should be focused on skill building. Training needs to be structured with certain goals and standards, and you need to develop a plan to achieve those goals and standards. Otherwise you're just ****ing around shooting stuff wasting ammo.
Don't worry, it happens to everyone. For some reason his preferred method of communication is often nearly indecipherable encryption of some sort.
Should also add that I will certainly agree about the overall environment being second to none here. Hard to imagine a better place to exchange knowledge and dialog for any venue let alone our most preferred.
It would be nice if each member went back and read everything they have posted and then ranked it on a scale of 1-10 for being helpful or of technical value. If you scored less than 30 percent, you should really examine your life and what kind of person you are. ;)
C4
1. Skill > Gear
Function > Form
2. This industry is no different from any other industry when it comes to marketing.
As an aside, my knowledge of gas port diameter has grown as well.
As an aside, my knowledge of gas port diameter has grown as well.
Ha, same here.
Army Chief
08-22-13, 09:22
In my time here, I have learned the following -
Not all AR's are created equal. "The Chart" put this easily into perspective for me in a way I could never express before seeing it, and the explanation of features gave it susbtantive meaning and depth.
Not all bullets are created equal. DocGKR explained the theory behind terminal ballistics, offered technical information and evidence, and an enormous amount of controlled testing.
Failure2Stop is always right. Pretty much anything that Jack Leuba says is solid gold and should be immediately embraced.
Gear selection should be requirements based. Gear needs to be quality stuff that will do what you need it to do. It's a simple thought but so many people pick gear based on how it looks and feels, instead of how it will perform.
Shooting should be focused on skill building. Training needs to be structured with certain goals and standards, and you need to develop a plan to achieve those goals and standards. Otherwise you're just ****ing around shooting stuff wasting ammo.
Good post, and I certainly agree about Jack.
As for Grant's earlier point about the staff not being able to be bought, while true, I do strive to be reasonable. Substantial cash offers will be entertained on a case-by-case basis. Please PM me with your requirements. lol
AC
As for Grant's earlier point about the staff not being able to be bought, while true, I do strive to be reasonable. Substantial cash offers will be entertained on a case-by-case basis. Please PM me with your requirements. lol
AC
I guess I spoke to soon! :nono:
C4
Army Chief
08-22-13, 09:27
Disregard. I just got banned. :D :D
AC
Smuckatelli
08-22-13, 09:41
Probably everyone here has seen someone as a jackass at least once. It doesn't matter what the subject is; guns, politics, life style....
This is pretty common on all internet forums.
What I have learned on this specific site is once a member has a personal problem; all jackassery stops and heartfelt advice is given.
I'm left humbled by the support that members here give to my son's fund raising each year, Andy's 45, AC's thread, and numerous other threads not involving cancer but the love and need to help out a fellow member is there.
If churches showed this kind of love and a need to help.....we'd all be in church on Sundays instead of the range...:D
I'm a retired Infantry Gunny, I ain't going soft on you guys, just stating the facts.
montanadave
08-22-13, 10:09
People who seemingly disagree about virtually everything can, if they are willing to shut their mouths and open their ears long enough, find areas of mutual interest and agreement. And discovering those shared interests, values, and passions can create mutual respect, even friendship.
skijunkie55
08-22-13, 10:33
People who seemingly disagree about virtually everything can, if they are willing to shut their mouths and open their ears long enough, find areas of mutual interest and agreement. And discovering those shared interests, values, and passions can create mutual respect, even friendship.
How true, not only here, but in every other facet of life as well.
What I've learned:
https://www.m4carbine.net/nual/misc/nav_search.gif
^^^ The source of all knowledge ^^^
RogerinTPA
08-22-13, 10:44
People who seemingly disagree about virtually everything can, if they are willing to shut their mouths and open their ears long enough, find areas of mutual interest and agreement. And discovering those shared interests, values, and passions can create mutual respect, even friendship.
Agreed. It can be a hazardous environment dealing with a forum chocked full of Type A personalities, but if people can evolve to add something constructive to the dialog, it benefits everyone. Although we may not see eye to eye on every subject, we are truly brothers.
As to the point of the thread, I've learned quite a bit from everyone and have enjoyed meeting members during training. Certain folks aren't as big of a D-bag when met in a carbine or pistol course due to the fact their personality 'filter' is turned on, and of course that there are consequences in reality for personal conduct, and not so much behind a keyboard. For personal growth and better mental heath, I try to Avoid one dimensional thinkers at all cost. Don't argue with idiots who's primary mission is to stir the proverbial shit pot, just like in real life. Learning is a journey, not a destination.
I've learned an incredible amount of information here. On just about every subject I can think of- not just guns.
I am not an internet guy, I never have been. But this place has felt like "home" since I came here to research my first AR purchase. .
1) This web-site is a better source; and more accurate for news and information regarding what is going on in the world than most news/media outlets. Way more balanced as well.
2) Seeing the support, comradery and blessings/prayers offered by people here to others accross the nation and world they have only converesed with on the internet- gives me greater hope in the human race and our future.
4) The knowledge base of the members here is incredibly eclectic and second to no other single source I am aware of.
5) Styer really likes porn. I mean he REALLY likes porn.
What I have learned:
"You do not know, what you do not know."
You do not know, that you do not know something, you thought you knew. :eek:
Those two can be applied to everything besides guns.
About guns and gear: Make informed decisions on things you actually need, and those needs are usually found after shooting, not at the purchase of the rifle.
Just like in everything that requires an action: Training and practice go a long way. Especially when you plan to use a firearm to protect yourself. Again, you do not know what you do not know.
Back to helpfulness. I try to be. But truly it lies in the OP's willingness to learn and accept constructive criticism. Some newer members get offended when good advice is given and its contrary to what they believed. I even had a thread going on this exact topic.
I was contemplating my response, when this caught me, and cut to the core more succinctly than anything else, especially given the medium:
And I realized that the most important thing that I learned during my tenure here is this:
I'd rather be helpful than just "right".
I will strive to keep this in mind with every post from here forward.
The general idea has always been there, but identifying it and boiling it down is new.
But to touch on what I was initially thinking:
Just because someone bought something that you don't like doesn't mean that they are wrong, stupid, or deserving of being belittled. And the inverse is true as well; just because someone made one good random choice doesn't mean that they hold any special knowledge. Treat people on yet internet like you would in person, and don't take the internet too seriously.
Finally:
Experience trumps theory every day. Numbers are fine, but the shooting is the important bit. Rather than trying to instill your own experiences and preferences, urge folks to gain their own experience, even if they might arrive at different conclusions.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
This struck a chord with me as well. Thanks for stating it so clearly.
Direct impingement is ok after all. When all the piston driven hysteria died down, DI is holding its own.
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