View Full Version : CCI#41 Primers
Grizzlyatoms
08-22-13, 12:22
I came across a good deal on 10k #41 primers they say for 5.56, was wondering if anyone had used them in anything other than an AR or 5.56
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I came across a good deal on 10k #41 primers they say for 5.56, was wondering if anyone had used them in anything other than an AR or 5.56
Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2
Wrong forum. There is a specific Reloading & Ammunition forum for questions like this.
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I've done half of that. Used them in subsonic 300 blackout. Ar platform.
They seat well, even in crimped brass, and all 1000 fired. No probs here. I would still choose #400 primers if side by side, oy because ive used those more. But I wouldn't turn them down either, esp if they were given to me or a good deal.
From what I know the #41 primers have a thicker cup. If your rifle has a strong ignition setup they should be fine. I recently bought some from the LGS for $39/1K
Did not have problem igniting them with JP Enterprises Trigger Spring Kit Reduced Power on the 200 primers I had.
In my chrono testing of near max loads of H335 (25gr), H322 (23.5gr) and TAC (26gr) with 55gr Hornady FMJBT bullets CCI#41 primers consistently gave 80-100fps higher velocities than Wolf SRM, Win SMR (old chrome ones) and Rem 7 1/2. The best SD and ES were with The Wolf primers.
I am not recommending these loads they are just what I ended up with after working up from about 1-2gr less powder. They showed no pressure signs in five NATO chambered AR rifles even with the CCI #41s. Velocity was in the 2800-2950 fps range from 16" barrels.
I like the #41s with H335 but I prefer the Wolf SRM or Rem 7 1/2s with H322 and TAC with the 55gr bullet.
Raven Armament
08-23-13, 01:21
From what I know the #41 primers have a thicker cup.
Correct. Also the CCI #550 is the same exact primer as the CCI #400. CCI just packages it in a different label. Easier to do that than explain why they labeled it as "small pistol magnum or standard small rifle".
Keep in mind that these are magnum primers when working with established loads.
Keep in mind that these are magnum primers when working with established loads.
Yes.
From CCI:
Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential.
Mil-spec sensitivity
Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants
Available in large (No.34) and small (No. 41) rifle
Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers
I ran into this early this year after working up hot loads last summer with #400 primers. All I had left was #41 and realized no load had been worked up with those.
Shot off an email to ask the differences rather than relying on speculation. Straight from the horses mouth:
Ted, the #41 primers are a magnum primer, the 400 are standard primers. There is also differences in the makeup of the primer itself. They are not interchangeable
Grizzlyatoms
08-28-13, 20:51
I am going with 300 Blackout and Barnes X 110gr. So it sounds like I have a lot of work ahead of me before November gets here.
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I ave used small rifle primers 4000 so far in all of my pistols and revolvers , The guns are all stock. I have used CCI. Federal and Winchester and they all fired and actually seemed to work well. The CCI #41 will not fire in any of my pistols or revolvers. Load a few rounds with the #41 primer only and see if they go bang in your rifle.
Like mentioned, they've got a thicker cup and therefore more slamfire resistant apparently. Alot of guys who reload 6.8SPC use them consistently
The #41 and #34 have the same thickness and hardness cups as their magnum primers counterparts. The difference is the anvil is shorter than standard primers requiring more force to set the primer off.
On the M14 and M16 rifles when a single round is loaded without the magazine in place, bolt velocity is higher and the floating firing pin can set off the cartridge with standard primers.
From what I know the #41 primers have a thicker cup. If your rifle has a strong ignition setup they should be fine. I recently bought some from the LGS for $39/1K
My LGS has #41 primers at $50/1k.....:eek:
1slow01Z71
10-03-13, 20:15
How much tougher are they than regular primers? I bought a K in preparation for my making some mk262 ammo with some 77gr nosler custom competitions to chunk out of my 20" barrel. I know these loads are going to need to be pretty hot and it seems people have better luck with these and hotter loads. Just don't want to get too hot of a load and blow something up.
How much tougher are they than regular primers? I bought a K in preparation for my making some mk262 ammo with some 77gr nosler custom competitions to chunk out of my 20" barrel. I know these loads are going to need to be pretty hot and it seems people have better luck with these and hotter loads. Just don't want to get too hot of a load and blow something up.
The #41 and #34 primers are mil-spec primers, all commercial contract military ammunition must meet these requirements.
Guess what primers are used to load this ammunition.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/federal556_zps8997eff9.jpg
You also have people here saying they use CCI 400 primers in their AR15 rifles and they have thinner cups and are more likely to have slam fires due to there thinner cups. (Very bad idea with rifles with free floating firing pins)
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/calhoonprimers02_zpsb8295b11.png
CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0
Nightvisionary
10-05-13, 05:44
I have used them in a 300 Blackout AR. I recorded no appreciable difference in group size, velocity, or pressure signs from CCI 450.
Raven Armament
10-06-13, 17:15
You also have people here saying they use CCI 400 primers in their AR15 rifles and they have thinner cups and are more likely to have slam fires due to there thinner cups. (Very bad idea with rifles with free floating firing pins)
I've loaded and fired a couple hundred thousand rounds (~200-250K) with #400 primers and never had a slam fire. If it was that bad of an idea, I would have expected it to have happened already.
I've loaded and fired a couple hundred thousand rounds (~200-250K) with #400 primers and never had a slam fire. If it was that bad of an idea, I would have expected it to have happened already.
I would expect the military did more extensive testing than what you claim you did and the military laid out the milspec requirements for primers. If you want to use primer with the thinnest cup and increased sensitivity go ahead BUT you may want to a little research on the subject before bragging about it.
I would expect the military did more extensive testing than what you claim you did and the military laid out the milspec requirements for primers. If you want to use primer with the thinnest cup and increased sensitivity go ahead BUT you may want to a little research on the subject before bragging about it.
You don't think 200,000 to 250,000 is enough research?:rolleyes:
I would expect the military did more extensive testing than what you claim you did and the military laid out the milspec requirements for primers. If you want to use primer with the thinnest cup and increased sensitivity go ahead BUT you may want to a little research on the subject before bragging about it.
I would say 200,000 reloads is sufficient research.
I would say 200,000 reloads is sufficient research.
Then contact the military and maybe they will lower their standards on your say so. :sarcastic:
Raven Armament
10-07-13, 00:34
I would expect the military did more extensive testing than what you claim you did and the military laid out the milspec requirements for primers. If you want to use primer with the thinnest cup and increased sensitivity go ahead BUT you may want to a little research on the subject before bragging about it.
I'm not sure how many rounds the military tested to come to that conclusion nor their testing process. My experience is with 6 different ARs over the course of 7 years using CCI #400 primers and no special process. I just shot the ammo I reloaded in the rifles I owned. Not anything close to a formal test. Just experience. My intent wasn't to brag it was to state my personal experience that is contrary to the statement made. I've only heard and read about slam fires for several years. I've never experienced one personally. As of last year I switched to Wolf SRM primers because they are cheaper and produce more accurate ammunition than any domestic primer using the same load. Otherwise the CCI #400 was the best primer of the domestic breed in cost and performance.
Raven, I have witnessed 2 slam-fires that I can recall on the highpower line where both shooters used winchester small rifle primers IIRC (Happened in E Central FL with two different shooters on two separate occasions). I've stuck with CCI mil primers after those incidents for autoloaders.
I came across a good deal on 10k #41 primers they say for 5.56, was wondering if anyone had used them in anything other than an AR or 5.56
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Where did you pick up said primers I'd like some
Raven Armament
I have had my AR15 rifles less than two years, the reason for this was because the first M16 rifles they handed us in the service were a POS and jammed every time we fired them. The only reason I have "any" semi-autos now is because of the influence of my two sons in their early thirties. I was always a bolt action action rifle and revolver guy, and now I have rifles and pistols that throw perfectly good brass away that drives my brass OCD crazy. :(
The slam fire problem occurred during the testing phase and came to a head in 1963. With the M14 and M16 commercial contract ammunition there were slam fire problems when loading a single round without the magazine in place. Thicker primer cups and making the firing pins lighter reduced the problem to less than 1 in 10 milion chance of a slam fire. The first primers used by Remington in their first batches of ammunition were the 6 1/2 primers and they had to be changed to 7 1/2 primers with thicker cups.
NOTE: The Remington 6 1/2 primers have a cup thickness of only .020 and these type primers are not even rated for higher pressures that the military loads their 5.56 M855 ammunition today. So I'm loading with thicker primer cups in tight fitting primer pockets. And the rest of you can use any primer you want, just don't cry about any problems you might have. (This is for all of you reading this posting)
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/coltbolt_zps46fb923d.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/piercedprimer-1_zps292b54b8.jpg
My AR15 rifles are an experiment to re-educate someone who still is not crazy about the caliber and direct impingement gas system. I'm old fashioned and still think the M1 was the greatest battle rifle ever made. I only reload my rifles with free floating firing pins with the primers that have the thickest cups. I do not use the CCI# 34 or 41 primers and the majority of the time use Remington 7 1/2 primers. This dates back to reloading my first semi-auto rifle the SKS which also has a slam fire problem and they make a replacement firing pin for it with a spring loaded firing pin. Never say never, if you go to the DCM forums you will read more about slam fires with the M14 and AR15 type rifles. I also always load my ARs from the magazine and never single load a cartridge because of the increased bolt velocity and the free floating firing pin.
So just remember when you reload you are not shooting milspec ammo and you also don't have crimped primers that "can" cause problems.
.........
The slam fire problem occurred during the testing phase and came to a head in 1963. With the M14 and M16 commercial contract ammunition there were slam fire problems when loading a single round without the magazine in place. Thicker primer cups and making the firing pins lighter reduced the problem to less than 1 in 10 milion chance of a slam fire. The first primers used by Remington in their first batches of ammunition were the 6 1/2 primers and they had to be changed to 7 1/2 primers with thicker cups.
........
A FAL will do it under those conditions also - with Federal GMM primers in my case; while doing some accuracy testing / load development. The FAL will show you a nice ding on a chambered, but unfired round, btw. Not so much for an AR.
I now use CCI #34s for any semi-auto .308/7.62 and use a proper manual of arms (including just for accuracy testing). Never had an issue with ARs and commercial SRPs, but I only load from a mag. I currently load Rem 7 1/2s, but have used most U.S. commercial.
Then contact the military and maybe they will lower their standards on your say so. :sarcastic:
My standards and the standards of the US armed forces have nothing to do with each other. If you're that frightened of a mishap while shooting centerfire then Daisy or Gamo has something more your speed.
My standards and the standards of the US armed forces have nothing to do with each other. If you're that frightened of a mishap while shooting centerfire then Daisy or Gamo has something more your speed.
Its a shame you have such low standards.
And why I don't let other people load ammunition for me, my standards are higher after reloading for over 46 years, and its called experience.
Its a shame you have such low standards.
And why I don't let other people load ammunition for me, my standards are higher after reloading for over 46 years, and its called experience.
Isn't it great that I don't need your standards and you don't need mine.
It must be hell living in fear.
Isn't it great that I don't need your standards and you don't need mine.
It must be hell living in fear.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/LaughingSmiley_zps51f85375.gif
Warning:
Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.
Small rifle primers having a .020 thickness cup are for "lower" pressure cartridges and .025 thickness cups are for higher pressure cartridges.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/calhoonprimers02_zpsb8295b11.png
All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to is read..........................or remain ignorant of the facts.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/smokingwarning_zps61e4d180.jpg
Go ahead and use the thinner cups and smoke em if you got them.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/LaughingSmiley_zps51f85375.gif
Warning:
Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.
Small rifle primers having a .020 thickness cup are for "lower" pressure cartridges and .025 thickness cups are for higher pressure cartridges.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/calhoonprimers02_zpsb8295b11.png
All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to is read..........................or remain ignorant of the facts.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/smokingwarning_zps61e4d180.jpg
Go ahead and use the thinner cups and smoke em if you got them.
OK, so based on the .025 threshold, I take it to mean that all of those large rifle primers are safe for a .308 in an AR platform without risk of slam fire, yes?
OK, so based on the .025 threshold, I take it to mean that all of those large rifle primers are safe for a .308 in an AR platform without risk of slam fire, yes?
That is my understanding, and none of my reloading manuals calls for any CCI #41 or #34 primers. If you look at the service rifle loading data for the .308 they all used standard primers even for the SKS which has a bad rep for slam fires.
Also as long as you load from the magazine the bolt velocity is low enough to not worry about it.
I can say that my XD 40 sc will fire all small rifle primers except the CCI #41 mil spec primers.
I can say that my XD 40 sc will fire all small rifle primers except the CCI #41 mil spec primers.
Never tried the #41s, as they're usually more expensive and not necessary for ARs. The only gun I've ever seen slam fire was that Korean rifle that takes AR mags... forget the model off the top of my head.
The Wolf SRMs will fail to ignite at about 1% in my G17. I try to keep some small pistol primers for 45 ACP with the small pockets.... and Wolf is way too good in rifle to be wasting them in Pistol loads.
Remington ran Lake City Army Ammunition Plant from 1941 till 1985 and they didn't use CCI#41 Primers or anyone else's primers.
Below is a very good link on testing small rifle primers, click on the link and look at the primer test photos. In reloading manuals they tell you to use magnum primers with ball powder. The Remington primers in this test were called "mini-flame throwers", now guess what primer Remington used at Lake City to light off ball powder.
Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 6BR Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html
Now guess what primers I use with ball powders in my AR15 rifles, and they have a .025 cup thickness. ;)
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