View Full Version : H&K P7M13 Review
plouffedaddy
08-25-13, 08:06
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The H&K P7M13 (and all P7 variants) is a very interesting gun. I've had mine for a while and every time it makes an appearance at the range it always seems to draw a crowd. Here's a summary of my impressions of the gun:
Pros:
-Extremely reliable. This gun has never had a single malfunction in my hands
-Excellent trigger
-I'm a fan of the mag ambi mag release
-Very sleek lines and it's pretty slim overall for a 13+1 gun
-I have large hands and like how the gun feels in the hand but those with smaller hands may be better off going with the P7M8
-Very low bore axis combined with the piston system (more on this in the video below) make for a very, very light recoil impulse.
-Easy and fast reloads can be accomplished with the use of the squeeze cocker
-No magazine safety
-Excellent accuracy from the fixed, cold hammer forged barrel
-Fluted chamber for increased reliability under adverse conditions
-Top of the slide is milled to reduce glare
Cons:
-Cost. They're expensive and no longer in production. Mags aren't cheap either. The prices on gunbroker seem to be all over the place but they pretty much start at $1300 and go up a good bit for a good condition or rare model
-It gets hot after a few magazines of rapid shooting
-Cleaning the gas system is somewhat annoying but it's not a deal breaker in my opinion
All in all it's an excellent firearm as you'd expect from H&K. In the review below I do some shooting, explain/demonstrate the unique features of the gun, and go over the pros/cons of it overall:
Heckler & Koch P7M13 HD Video Review Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xag_v756bxA)
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-25-13, 08:27
Absoultely awesome handgun from a bygone era. Straight from mars clean sheet design. Hammer forged barrels...CNC machined from a single block...gets me excited!
More thinking went into that pistol than all the guns that came after it combined. These days "cutting edge" means a slightly better grip or tinkering with a trigger. Makes me sad.
I agree with the OP on all counts.
Make it a M10 and I'd die happy.
I really like my P7, it is one of the pistols I will never get rid of. I drop in my pocket in place of a j frame for just running to the store.
I wish someone would look at a clone of the P7 that would solve the heat issues. Today we have new materials that might not transfer the heat as fast.
Also, because the P7 uses a fixed barrel, it provides a slightly more compact design than a recoil operated pistol with an equivalent barrel length.
Very neat pistol.
It is susceptible to jams with poor quality (soft brass) ammunition but otherwise reliability is fabulous.
Thanks for sharing.
Nice review. I picked up a P7 PSP a few years ago. A lot of fun to shoot, not my EDC or heavy range gun, but don't think I could ever part with it either.
I love shooting my NP3'd P7M8, that is one sexy pistol. I don't like showing it off too often, but when I do, everyone I'm with has to shoot it. They always love it. It's too easy to shoot and everyone loves it. However they liked to be kept clean.
I love the shoulder holster, Miami Classic?
Very nice review. Own a P7M8 personally. Love the pistol, very accurate and I have known several people who have raised blisters on their hands doing mag dumps. :D Really made to a level that is hard to find in this day and age.
Alaskapopo
08-25-13, 16:38
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/3464/1r94.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/7880/1tn5.jpg
The H&K P7M13 (and all P7 variants) is a very interesting gun. I've had mine for a while and every time it makes an appearance at the range it always seems to draw a crowd. Here's a summary of my impressions of the gun:
Pros:
-Extremely reliable. This gun has never had a single malfunction in my hands
-Excellent trigger
-I'm a fan of the mag ambi mag release
-Very sleek lines and it's pretty slim overall for a 13+1 gun
-I have large hands and like how the gun feels in the hand but those with smaller hands may be better off going with the P7M8
-Very low bore axis combined with the piston system (more on this in the video below) make for a very, very light recoil impulse.
-Easy and fast reloads can be accomplished with the use of the squeeze cocker
-No magazine safety
-Excellent accuracy from the fixed, cold hammer forged barrel
-Fluted chamber for increased reliability under adverse conditions
-Top of the slide is milled to reduce glare
Cons:
-Cost. They're expensive and no longer in production. Mags aren't cheap either. The prices on gunbroker seem to be all over the place but they pretty much start at $1300 and go up a good bit for a good condition or rare model
-It gets hot after a few magazines of rapid shooting
-Cleaning the gas system is somewhat annoying but it's not a deal breaker in my opinion
All in all it's an excellent firearm as you'd expect from H&K. In the review below I do some shooting, explain/demonstrate the unique features of the gun, and go over the pros/cons of it overall:
Heckler & Koch P7M13 HD Video Review Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xag_v756bxA)
Those were HK pistols I loved. Back when HK made pistols with good triggers.
pat
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-25-13, 18:49
My PSP is but heavy, I can't imagine adding mor rounds to it.
Every once in awhile I strip down my psp and try to figure out how to make a polymer frame for it. I can do nylon now on my 3d printer.....
I bought a P7M8 a couple months ago. I took it out to the range once, shot 4 magazines through the pistol and decided it wasnt for me.
A great pistol indeed, high quality and very accurate. But my big money guns are 1911s so I decided it was time to sell. Turns out I made $700 on it and I couldnt be happier.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/8D268E07-B9FA-4E1E-8F1B-C9637C0CB4CD-38633-00000B0F0AC3FAA6_zpsd2c89560.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/8D268E07-B9FA-4E1E-8F1B-C9637C0CB4CD-38633-00000B0F0AC3FAA6_zpsd2c89560.jpg.html)
One of the downsides, at least with the PSP's, is that after a magazine or two the area above the trigger starts to get really hot. While not so bad in the winter, it's an annoyance. I've not had the satisfaction of shooting the P7M8/13s so I don't know firsthand how well the heat shield works. As strange as it sounds, I actually prefer the PSP mag release over the M8.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-25-13, 22:58
One of the downsides, at least with the PSP's, is that after a magazine or two the area above the trigger starts to get really hot. While not so bad in the winter, it's an annoyance. I've not had the satisfaction of shooting the P7M8/13s so I don't know firsthand how well the heat shield works. As strange as it sounds, I actually prefer the PSP mag release over the M8.
Uhm, you only have one PSP?
Loooooser. ;)
One of the downsides, at least with the PSP's, is that after a magazine or two the area above the trigger starts to get really hot. While not so bad in the winter, it's an annoyance. I've not had the satisfaction of shooting the P7M8/13s so I don't know firsthand how well the heat shield works. As strange as it sounds, I actually prefer the PSP mag release over the M8.
This is why I never take just the PSP to the range. After about 4 mags my finger is burning. Wearing gloves helps, but I don't CCW with them, so prefer not too.
Kinda wish I would have picked up a later version with the heat shield, or if someone could fabricate one somehow.
I'm surprised, that no one mentioned weak point of P7M13. I mean except heating of the frame.
Those pistols are known to being notorious in breaking firing pin safety spring (small elbow spring). I had it broken once and when I sold my P7M13 (to make room for other pistol on my licence), new owner had new spring I put broken again. I do not know if this is urban myth or no, but I heard or read somewhere, than GSG9 form standard procedure of replacing this spring after every use of P7M13 (part of cleaning and lubing procedure).
dwhitehorne
08-26-13, 06:38
I'm surprised, that no one mentioned weak point of P7M13. I mean except heating of the frame.
Those pistols are known to being notorious in breaking firing pin safety spring (small elbow spring). I had it broken once and when I sold my P7M13 (to make room for other pistol on my licence), new owner had new spring I put broken again. I do not know if this is urban myth or no, but I heard or read somewhere, than GSG9 form standard procedure of replacing this spring after every use of P7M13 (part of cleaning and lubing procedure).
Correct. Most people in the states that have P7's are not high volume shooters with them anymore. I was issued a P7M13 and was stuck with it everyday for seven years. It was like the weight of a full size 1911 with the grip shape of a 2x4.
In addition to the drop safety spring breaking/falling out, the firing pin collar would also break after extended use. The weapon usually worked but it was still broken. The armorer use to keep a whole bag of firing pin assemblies at the range during quals.
Also don't do any emergency reload drills on a hard surface floor. Once the magazine floor plate bends after being dropped you can't get the mag seated again without straightening out the floor plate.
Don't get me started on constant rusting under the grips. Not a fan of the P7. David
I had a P7M8 several years ago. I sold it because it got too hot to handle after shooting only a few mags. Mine had the heat shield. They are a reliable, well made pistol. The squeeze cocker is a nice safety feature. It just wasn't a fun range gun for me due to the heat issue.
Army Chief
08-26-13, 08:53
At one point in time, I owned pretty much every variation of the P7 that was offered, to include the über-clunky .40/M10. The M13 was my EDC at the time, and on balance, a uniformly-excellent pistol. This was during the age of the Wondernine, when the innovative operating system, ambidextrous controls and high-capacity were all fairly new and remarkable. Quality was always on par with the very best, and most costly, sidearms of the day.
Although I recognize the heat issue as valid for training environments, I really have to discount it for most other applications, as it is unlikely that one would ever have to fire 60+ rounds in a single defensive engagement. I've seen guys mitigate these concerns in high-round range/training situations by bringing two identical P7s, and I suppose that works, too. Sure, they can warm up, but this is not really a major obstacle in real world use.
The M13's grip profile was something of an issue for me, however; not because it presented any special difficulties by itself, but because it always felt unusually-blocky when compared to the single-stack M8. I don't have particularly-large hands, and an M13 more or less forces you to adapt to the pistol, rather than the other way around. Not a show stopper. Just one of those points that you quietly ponder when there are multiple versions of the same basic gun available.
The only version that I didn't have in those days was an original P7 (what we in the USA call a PSP, even though that was a specific model designation for a smaller run of early P7s). Over time, I turned my focus back toward the 1911, and sold off all of the P7s. Then, about 10 years ago, while living in Germany, I purchased the one type that I had long ignored (P7/PSP). Oddly enough, it instantly became my favorite of the entire family. The trimmer lines throughout and a much more natural feeling grip won me over. The word "svelte" probably describes it best.
We make a lot out of the fact that hell-mounted mag catches and such are to be avoided, but I honestly feel that they remain well-suited to this gun, and despite its weight and finite capacity, I still see the P7 as a wholly-viable defensive piece. They work well, are intuitive and swift to use (once you understand the squeeze cocker), uncannily-accurate and are built to last. There is definitely nothing else quite like it, and folks always take an interest when they see one.
The old Teutonic Staple Gun isn't necessarily for everyone, but it is one of those guns that is worth adding to the armamentarium, if you haven't ever owned one. The P7 (and, to a lesser extent, M8) versions are somewhat more affordable these days, as M13s have begun to command collector's prices, but that is where I tend to see the best return-on-investment, anyway; especially if you can locate a reasonably-priced ex-Polizei gun. Most of them are in fine condition on the inside, and they usually respond quite well to a judicious refinishing job on the outside, if desired.
Fun gun, and with a minimum of training, these can be excellent tools for getting a spouse or Significant Other comfortable with a defensive pistol for the home, due to their highly-intuitive method of operation.
AC
Always wanted one but couldn't afford one. I would consider trading two of my current arms for one if I could get it with 4+ mags. I used to shoot with a group of guys who all used P7M8's for carry and competition. I know they do break, I saw this first hand. But I did get to see them in the hands of very good shooters and what one could do with one.
I keep looking.
Uhm, you only have one PSP?
Loooooser. ;)
Ahhem... Did you say something? ;)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/halo2304/Guns/IMG_0378.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/halo2304/media/Guns/IMG_0378.jpg.html)
This is why I never take just the PSP to the range. After about 4 mags my finger is burning. Wearing gloves helps, but I don't CCW with them, so prefer not too.
Kinda wish I would have picked up a later version with the heat shield, or if someone could fabricate one somehow.
I usually either take more than one gun or give it a cooling off period.
DanjojoUSMC
08-26-13, 20:52
Those were HK pistols I loved. Back when HK made pistols with good triggers.
pat
What service pistols have better triggers than the USP match triggers and will function with similar durability, reliability, etc. ? I feel more confident with primers going off with HK trigger systems than most.
I'm sure if there were any contracts that spec'd very light, short pull with very short reset they would engineer them. I don't know if any real agency has ever asked for it?
I learned how to really shoot with 14lbs DAO trigger system so everything after is wonderful :D A lot of people who think they understand proper grip and trigger control really have no idea and just keep putting hours (or months, years) cementing a poor foundation. This is the main fear of long, heavy triggers.
horseman234
08-26-13, 21:14
Maybe I'm just old school, but I still carry a M13 with a Del Fatti LP_HTL when I am wearing a jacket . The Del Fatti distributes the weight well and hugs the M13 very close to the body so it conceals well. While there are more modern pistols with greater capacity, the P7 just seems to point naturally, and I love the accuracy.
Love my P7's. I used an M8 in IDPA and there is no faster gun to action. In IDPA the M8 is somewhat hampered by the number of magazine changes required in most COF.
Never owned a 13, but would bet it would serve well in IDPA and make an excellent defensive side arm. As stated above, keep it clean and avoid the slide release if you slingshot your round into the chamber. Otherwise you are quite likely to slingshot your entire slide. (Don't ask) I no longer sling shot for this and other reasons.
Otherwise you are quite likely to slingshot your entire slide. (Don't ask)
Dude! P7s will always be my favorite pistols. After spending all my junior high and high school years salivating over the P7 M8/13, spending my first two two years in the USN, saving up money on deployment, I finally was able to throw down the cash on a new P7M8. What did the ass master behind the counter do before putting it away for the 10 day waiting period? Sling shots the slide across the gun shop and onto the floor! I almost died.
Luckily, the floor was carpeted. I would never want to take these guns into harms way, but as a child of the '80s, the HK93 will always be my favorite rifle, and the P7M8/13, my favorite pistol.
I'm surprised, that no one mentioned weak point of P7M13. I mean except heating of the frame.
Those pistols are known to being notorious in breaking firing pin safety spring (small elbow spring).
Two "heavy" trigger return springs on my P30 broke earlier [counted as dry+live] than drop safety spring on my P7M8. True story.
I sold my P7 because, as my preferences developed, cons out weighted pros by a wide margin, but I wasn't concerned with excessive fragility. I often used mine as a secondary in carbine classes in open CQC holster, rolling in mud etc, and had no problems.
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-27-13, 09:41
I have been shooting my P7M8 on and off since 1992. about 13 years ago I sent it into HK and they rebarreled it, etc. That gives you and idea how many rounds I shot through it, I actually wore out the damn barrel. I had a crack appear on my firing pin bushing (although it never failed) way back when. I have never had any spring failures of any kind. This gun was originally nickel and has been chromed several times since. I have seen numerous Glocks, SIGs, Colts and M&Ps have parts give up the ghost in the meantime. The gun is a tank. I just shot 100 rounds through it this weekend and it continues to putter along quite nicely.
The funny thing is that I shot my G19 with it, and kept getting slide locks because I grip my guns very high. The P7 doesn't have any slide release drama because the cocking lever is the slide release. In this sense it has an advantage over the Glocks and the Current HK pistols, which involve all manner of magic grip voodoo.
I love my M13. It goes bang every time and carrying it isn't really hard at all. It's the most accurate gun I own and it's the only one I have misfire nightmares about.........which is why I don't carry it :(
Army Chief
08-28-13, 14:56
I love my M13. It goes bang every time and carrying it isn't really hard at all. It's the most accurate gun I own and it's the only one I have misfire nightmares about.........which is why I don't carry it :(
Misfire nightmares?
If it goes bang every time, what are the nightmares about? Not really understanding the connection.
AC
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