Help a newbie with Die Selection

[JD_BP_FLYER]

About a year ago I decided that I wanted to get into reloading (insert your favorite reason for doing so here). I was able to find some great deals on some used reloading equipment and started buying a little at a time. Bottom line is I am having a tough time deciding on dies for reloading .223. I've spent what seems like months reading just about every post there is on the subject both here and on other forums as well and I am totally confused.

I'm now turning to the collective knowledge for some informed guidance. I'll give some background on the equipment and purpose to help out with your advice. First, I will be using a single stage press (RCBS) and loading primarily .223, although it is possible that I will load 40 cal in the future. I will be loading general range use ammo for my defense rifle (5.56) as well as accurate loads for an AR purpose built (.223 WYLDE) for coyote and other varmint. I expect to load about 200 rounds monthly for range use and would like several hundred in supply for the hunting rifle. I already have brass, etc to get started, as well as everything else, less dies.

So, on to the question. Very specifically (model or part numbers), would you recommend as a die set or individual dies to fit the purpose above and why? Full-Length sizing is fine, no small base as I understand it. Dillon would be my first choice but waiting 6 months is ridiculous. Dies with micrometer adjustment for seating are preferable. I may or may not crimp the rounds and I see that the majority like the Lee factory crimp die. I have no issues buying the right equipment to start off with, regardless of the cost (within reason). I'm looking for the highest quality ammo I can produce. Accuracy for the defense gun out to 150 yards is fine but the varmint gun should see 400 yards maximum. I'm not sold on the X-Die from RCBS. Feel free to school me otherwise as needed. It seems Redding or Forster are the collective best but the whole bushing thing has me confused as well. I expect to use 55gr projectiles on the range gun but who knows what I'll end up with on the coyote gun so keep that in mind as well.

There are so many different opinions out there it's difficult to sort out. I'm sure you guys can point me in the right direction. I appreciate whatever advice you have.

[shootist~]

With an A/R - and probably 99% of bolt guns, you won't see enough difference in end results from a top of the line Redding Competition set to any middle of the road set, to even notice.

Don't over think it - just go with Redding or RCBS (two of the top tier names) - either standard or /w competition seater die - and with the standard expander ball. And SB vs standard base will work the same as well (IMO). No bushing set or LFCD or any crimp die needed.

FWIW, I tried the LFCD and saw no positive accuracy change in a fairly accurate Noveskie SPR barrel with 77 gr SMK reloads at 500 & 700 Meters; but it's got some cool factor and probably won't hurt anything if used properly.

The Redding carbide expander ball is nice, but debatable on whether the expense is actually worth it. I would give it the nod if you go with Redding dies.

Play with some of the other accessories down the road after you gain a lot of experience - and see for yourself. But for now the KISS principle will pay the best dividends.

ETA: I load on two Dillon progressives, but size on single stage. I use small base RCBS sizer dies for .223/5.56 - backed out enough to get me about .003" shoulder setback with moderated old (not annealed) brass. For 7.62x51 (SCAR-17) I use a standard Redding sizer die with carbide expander ball - also backed out a little to get me ~.0045-.0055" shoulder setback.

[G woody]

I use RCBS small base. I like the Lee crimper, but don't always crimp. Your loaded length is pretty much controlled by the magazine. You didn't mention if you have a case trimmer. Pretty critical when using an AR. Reloading gives you some independence during these shortages. Have fun!

[lunchbox]

Full length Redding if cash flow allows. Lee FL resizing dies if want to stay on a budget.

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Gents, thanks so much for the replies. The specific information on the Forster was the kind of real life information I was looking for. I do already have a case trimmer, the WFT, as well as all the other tools with the exception of dies, hence the post. I have no problem spending the coin needed for the dies as they are, to me, the most important part of the process besides care and patience.

Like I said above, I've been re4searching for what seems like....ever trying to be as informed as possible so keep the repies coming.

Thanks to all who help. While my post count is low, my time spent on the site accounts for many many hours.

[lunchbox]

Just in case you missed this. It has link to reloading manual https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109135&highlight=reloading+manual

From Sierra manual in link "The most common form of sizing in use today is full length resizing. Unlike a neck sizing die, full length resizing sizes the entire case, neck and body. While this does work the brass a bit more, it also allows the reloaded cartridges to be used in rifles other than the one in which the case was previously fired. Full length resizing also allows for easier chambering in action types not having the camming power of a bolt action."

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Yes sir, I was able to learn that full-length was the way to go.

Thanks to those discussions regarding Small-Base vs Full-Length sizing I got a great understanding of just how those dies work and why.

My quest is to find the best of all worlds, meaning quality of product, ease of set-up and use, repeatability, etc. You know, buy once cry once. I figure I'll have this stuff awhile and once I get started, it will probably become some twisted form of obsession to find the perverbial "perfect load" I can't hardly wait

[.46caliber]

I reload with my dad, he's a bit of an RCBS fanboy. The RCBS dies have been great, full length resize. He did swap out the nuts for Hornady's as the RCBS nuts just didn't hold and COAL would wander.

I'll be over there Thursday to load a batch and I'll take photos.

Just in case you've missed it so far, you'll need a reamer or a swage to address the crimp on 5.56 primer pockets.

We also have a dedicated D press for de-priming. Used can be found real cheap and cuts out one die swap.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[lunchbox]

Yes sir, I was able to learn that full-length was the way to go.

Thanks to those discussions regarding Small-Base vs Full-Length sizing I got a great understanding of just how those dies work and why.

My quest is to find the best of all worlds, meaning quality of product, ease of set-up and use, repeatability, etc. You know, buy once cry once. I figure I'll have this stuff awhile and once I get started, it will probably become some twisted form of obsession to find the perverbial "perfect load" I can't hardly waitGottcha, got the info just not gear (hell that's the hard part). Redding(my fav)/Foster/Dillon competition dies. Good scale is very useful, I've been burned on this(scale) more than anything else.

[Airhasz]

I use lee and rcbs for 223 and both work fine. For 9mm I just went with lee again and once set up properly I believe any major companies dies are good to go. I'm close to 10K reloads without any problem dies.

[NWcityguy2]

I own all Lee dies and I've never seen a reason to switch from them. I think the design is better than RCBS because you are significantly less likely to break a decapping stem on an off center flash hole. I don't think micrometer adjustment gauges are all that useful if you are using a micrometer or digital caliper to check your ammo. Perhaps if you are loading different OALs and want to easily switch between them, but if you are really detail oriented you are going to be checking the loaded ammo's OAL anyway.

I'm not a fan on the Lee FCD for rifle ammo because it works by deforming the bullet. Most resizing dies give you sufficient neck tension without the need for added crimp. Remember crimping only angles in the edge of the brass, it doesn't add neck tension. Crimping will also require you to trim brass more often than is needed because the longer the brass the greater amount of crimp is applied.

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Great info, especially the nuts on the RCBS dies. I have seen that posted a few times before. Since I have that 223 WYLDE gun I may end up with different COAL, especially if I load one shot for best possible accuracy at long range, so maybe the micrometer die would be a wise purchase from the get-go. The crimp debate rages on and on and I read so many posts on that it made my head spin. I will probably hold off on any crimp to start and spend a few minutes checking the new loads at the range for any bullet set-back before making the decision whether to crimp or not.
Once again, I can't thank you guys enough for all the help. Any other opinions and real world experience with dies is always appreciated.

[.46caliber]

Remember there are COAL limits due to mags on an AR platform. Keep that in mind too.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Roger that! I'd hate to screw that up and have a whole bunch of ammo I can't load into mags. It would not be fun to shoot that one round at a time. I've seen 2.23 up to 2.25. Does that sound right? I don't have my manual in front of me since I'm at work.

[Whytep38]

I know you asked about dies, not calipers, but if you don't already have calipers, I'd suggest mechanical, rather than digital, calipers. I have digital calipers, and sometimes the readings fluctuate. You can't tell whether it's because the battery is going or just something wonky (like the calipers being overly sensitive). That adds a level of distrust about the readings, and that causes (me, at least) a need for multiple measurements to ensure everything is correct.

[.46caliber]

I know you asked about dies, not calipers, but if you don't already have calipers, I'd suggest mechanical, rather than digital, calipers. I have digital calipers, and sometimes the readings fluctuate. You can't tell whether it's because the battery is going or just something wonky (like the calipers being overly sensitive). That adds a level of distrust about the readings, and that causes (me, at least) a need for multiple measurements to ensure everything is correct.
On that subject, don't cheap out on calipers. Its definitely a tool worth putting some money into.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[.46caliber]

Roger that! I'd hate to screw that up and have a whole bunch of ammo I can't load into mags. It would not be fun to shoot that one round at a time. I've seen 2.23 up to 2.25. Does that sound right? I don't have my manual in front of me since I'm at work.

I thought it was 2.260 max but I may not be remembering correctly. Just follow the manual and keep a couple mags for testing when you first setup.

And just in general, go slow. Read and re-read the manual, check your charge often, never hesitate to pause and check your work.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Maineshooter]

I use lee and rcbs for 223 and both work fine. For 9mm I just went with lee again and once set up properly I believe any major companies dies are good to go. I'm close to 10K reloads without any problem dies.

I have always been of the "buy once/cry once" mentality and, for the most part, I believe in it. I have more completely unnecessary reloading toys than I care to count (just having them seems to make me feel better I guess). When it comes to dies I have used a bunch of different brands, but mostly Lee and RCBS with great results. I found through trial and error that technique and consistency is more important than brand and gadgets for me. I figured that part out when working up loads for a new .260 bolt gun with a set of used Lee FL sizing dies - the Lee dies produced loads under 1/2 moa (when I did my part) and had a measured run out of damn near zero. I have had the same thing happen to me again with their dies. Pretty good for "cheap" dies.

In short, buy what you are comfortable buying but don't sweat it. DO pay attention to consistency and technique - it is far more important than the brand of gadgets you use.

[kwg020]

I use standard RCBS .223 dies. Because I shoot several .223's most of them semi autos, I do a neck size first to set the base of the neck and expel the primer and then use a standard full length resizer without the expander ball in it. This combination works for me. kwg

[lunchbox]

On that subject, don't cheap out on calipers. Its definitely a tool worth putting some money into.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2Mitutoyo calipers are the way to go.

[.46caliber]

Mitutoyo calipers are the way to go.

That's what we use.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Gents,

All good information sent my way, for sure. I probably should have listed the tooling I already have, which includes, ironically, a set of Mitutoyo Calipers! Yes, they are awesome. I have a Wilson case gauge and RCBS digital scale too. I've been amassing the tooling I need over the past year, taking suggestions from other posts and finding a lot in almost new condition. All I really needed to decide on were the dies and for that I was having trouble. I went with the Forster set with the micrometer seater AND the RCBS full length set. I did this because I have 2 presses and I've always believed "2 is one and one is none".

My sincerest thanks to all who posted in response to my question. The knowledge I've gained here is truly invaluable and I have no doubt I'll be reaching out again as I start the process with additional questions. Thankfully. I've learned through the years to learn from others and it's paid off many times.

[Airhasz]

[QUOTE=JD_BP_FLYER;1733865]Gents,

All good information sent my way, for sure. I probably should have listed the tooling I already have, which includes, ironically, a set of Mitutoyo Calipers! Yes, they are awesome. I have a Wilson case gauge and RCBS digital scale too. I've been amassing the tooling I need over the past year...


Wow, you have some serious patients to wait a year to crank out bullets. I could never wait that long, once I get an idea in my head it's non stop till mission accomplished...:D

[.46caliber]

We used a new RCBS auto-dispensing scale for the first time last night. What a fantastic little machine. You're gonna love it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[JD_BP_FLYER]

Well, it's more like forced patience. While I really wanted to get to reloading quickly, discretionary spending and work schedule just didn't permit. It did, however, allow me the time to acquire most of what I needed second hand and spend less on the stuff I needed.

Now if I could just find components I'd be all set. Seems like bullets are about the only thing easy to get right now. Primers and powder are another thing entirely. I saw CCI #41 military primers on sale but there were limits on quantity. Add in the hazmat and shipping and it didn't seem worth it.

[.46caliber]

Primers are the tough piece here. Powders are OK. We just snagged 6lbs of Win 748 at our local Cabela's. My LGS has small quantities of about 2 dozen powders.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[dkindig]

Depending on your budget, Hornady dies are an option if you're looking for a micrometer-adjust seating die. The micrometer adjuster can be added onto their seating die at a lower cost than the Redding Competition seater and I have seen great feedback on their quality/results.

The Hornady sizer is a small-base die from what I understand.

Whoops! Just noticed a few posts up that you had made a choice already...