Powder for 180gr 40S&W @ ~1020fps

[twadsw01]

Good afternoon,

I am planning to reload 40S&W for my full-sized M&P pistol, and am trying to figure out which powder to use to work up a handload that approximates the feel and performance of my chosen self-defense load (Winchester PDX1 180gr).

Does anyone have any recommendations in terms of which powder would be best? I'm open to whatever anyone has experiences with, but at the moment, I've considered Hodgdon Longshot and Universal, as well as IMR SR4756, Ramshot Silhouette, and a few others.

I have a few selection criteria so far. I'd like the powder to not batter the pistol to produce the desired velocity, to be pretty clean-burning, low-flash, and to not produce an inordinately loud concussion upon firing.

If anyone can assist in selecting a powder that fulfills all or most of those requirements, I'd appreciate the assistance. If casting your vote above and have a second, please leave a comment as to why you voted the way you did.

Thanks a lot.

[StrikerFired]

I use Universal in all my 40 S&W rounds. I'll update it when I get to my books tonight.

[eightmillimeter]

I prefer power pistol to load in that velocity range, but since you don't like muzzle flash, I voted for titegroup.

[twadsw01]

Hodgdon's data on their site lists 978fps @ 4.7gr of Titegroup as their max charge.

[T2C]

I loaded a lot of accurate 40 S&W ammunition for my Glock 23 with Winchester 540 powder, but it is no longer offered by Olin. Winchester WSF will give you close to the same performance.

[twadsw01]

T2C,

What's your experience with WSF? Have you been able to achieve > 1000fps within published load data limits?

[Tzed250]

Looks like Longshot is a good bet.

[twadsw01]

Tzed,

From a velocity standpoint, I agree, and it looks like Longshot does it without going to super-high pressures. I was hesitant to purchase a pound of the stuff to try out, however, because I've heard multiple reports of it being really loud as well. If that's what I have to do to get to the desired velocity, then it will be what it will be.

I'd not really considered this until now, but it may be that to replicate the "feel" of the 180gr PDX1 round, the load I end up using might not have to be going the same velocity (even though the projectile is still 180gr), depending of course on the burn profile of the powder. Does that sound like a reasonable possibility to anyone? Of course, the best (and only sure-fire) way of telling whether this is true or not will be to burn up a box or two of the PDX1 in comparison with whatever hand loads I develop.

[Ryno12]

I prefer power pistol to load in that velocity range, but since you don't like muzzle flash, I voted for titegroup.

Same here. I prefer Power Pistol for all my 40 & 10mm loads.

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[T2C]

T2C,

What's your experience with WSF? Have you been able to achieve > 1000fps within published load data limits?

The only load coming close to 1000 fps was a maximum load shot out of a Glock 22 with Lone Wolf barrel. With the Glock barrel it chronographed slower at 920 fps. It was a really hot load, so I would use caution. I scrapped the brass after one reload.

Is there any reason you don't want to load practice rounds at around 900 fps to avoid overpressure? The accuracy range for me was 830-875 fps, which easily makes minor power factor. Unless you are using virgin brass, I would be reluctant to load much faster than 900 fps with a 180g FMJ and would shoot 180g FMJ factory ammunition instead. Factory ammunition is roughly $5 more a box than I can reload .40 S&W if I load with FMJ projectiles and I am leery of pushing the pressure limits of the .40 S&W cartridge.

[Sparky5019]

I use 3 grains of Red Dot to get 775 fps and was getting in the 990 range with 3.5 grains. 3.7 grains should just about get you there.

Sparky

[twadsw01]

Is there any reason you don't want to load practice rounds at around 900 fps to avoid overpressure?

The only reason I wouldn't want to load practice rounds at 900fps would be if those rounds did not come as close as possible to emulating the feel of my self-defense rounds. The purpose behind this entire exercise is to be able to have affordable ammunition with which to enable regular practice, so as to become proficient at shooting with something that approximates the recoil and point-of-impact of the self-defense round I use (PDX1). I'm not looking to make just above a particular power factor for matches.

There's no way I'd want to load outside of the envelope of published load data though.

[NWcityguy2]

Go with Universal. Meters well and reaches the velocity you want. Ramshot Silhouette used to be sold and Winchester Action Pistol (commonly called WAP) so if you want to look into that powder more use both terms.

[Malig8r]

Voted for Ramshot Silhouette. Meters very nicely, reduced muzzle flash and pretty good price.

6.6 grains under a 180 fmj should put you right at 1000fps. That's a recipe right out of the Hornady loading manual.

[surfish95747]

I just loaded some very accurate 40 loads using Blue Dot:
180 GN Xtreme RNFP copper plated
8 grains of Blue Dot
1.135 OAL
CCI Primer
Winchester case

Nice pop and very accurate. I need a chronograph to see exactly how fast they are going though. Sorry Blue Dot was not one of the powders on your list. Good powder though.

[T2C]

The only reason I wouldn't want to load practice rounds at 900fps would be if those rounds did not come as close as possible to emulating the feel of my self-defense rounds. The purpose behind this entire exercise is to be able to have affordable ammunition with which to enable regular practice, so as to become proficient at shooting with something that approximates the recoil and point-of-impact of the self-defense round I use (PDX1). I'm not looking to make just above a particular power factor for matches.

There's no way I'd want to load outside of the envelope of published load data though.

Roger that. At 850-900 fps I reload three or four times before scrapping brass. At 1000 fps I reload once then scrap the brass.

[twadsw01]

Roger that. At 850-900 fps I reload three or four times before scrapping brass. At 1000 fps I reload once then scrap the brass.

Ouch - not going to be nearly as cost effective as I thought.

Side note: is there a reliable way to tell if the brass is near the point of failure?

[Ryno12]

Roger that. At 850-900 fps I reload three or four times before scrapping brass. At 1000 fps I reload once then scrap the brass.

Holy crap, that seems wasteful. I really don't load any .40 rounds under 1000fps & the brass is fine. The brass gets tossed when it needs to get tossed.


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[T2C]

Holy crap, that seems wasteful. I really don't load any .40 rounds under 1000fps & the brass is fine. The brass gets tossed when it needs to get tossed.


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I reload my 9mm and .45 ACP brass several times before I scrap it, but I am very cautious with .40 S&W reloads. I use my Lone Wolf barrel to shoot lead bullets. I shoot my FMJ .40 S&W reloads through a regular Glock barrel and I am getting 0.0005"-0.0010" more brass expansion than with other barrels. I don't want to push the envelope with chamber pressures when I am getting that much brass expansion.

[Ryno12]

I shoot my FMJ .40 S&W reloads through a regular Glock barrel and I am getting 0.0005"-0.0010" more brass expansion than with other barrels. I don't want to push the envelope with chamber pressures when I am getting that much brass expansion.

Ahh Gotcha. Yeah, I replaced my stock G20 barrel with a Storm Lake because it was trashing brass.
My M&P 40 seems to be fairly easy on brass.

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[twadsw01]

I reload my 9mm and .45 ACP brass several times before I scrap it, but I am very cautious with .40 S&W reloads. I use my Lone Wolf barrel to shoot lead bullets. I shoot my FMJ .40 S&W reloads through a regular Glock barrel and I am getting 0.0005"-0.0010" more brass expansion than with other barrels. I don't want to push the envelope with chamber pressures when I am getting that much brass expansion.

T2C,

Is that length expansion you're talking about? Or is it diameter near the case head?

[T2C]

T2C,

Is that length expansion you're talking about? Or is it diameter near the case head?

Diameter both near the case head and the part fully supported by the chamber. Straight wall pistol brass gets shorter when fired.

[NWcityguy2]

Pistol brass lasts until you lose it, the neck cracks or primers stop seating correctly. There is no reason to discard brass if you are staying within published loads.

[SMJayman]

Titegroup will not get you the velocity you want without doing unsafe stuff with it. Much like others, I really like Power Pistol if you want the velocity, but it flashes a LOT!

My practice loads in 40 use Titegroup, but I only use 3.9gr, a much milder charge than you are looking at. I load brass until it cracks, but usually I lose the brass before it gets to that point.

I have no experience with AA7, but that might work for you as well, given the speed you are trying for. To get the speed you want safely, you will want a powder that runs on the slower side.

[SWThomas]

I voted Silhouette because I love it!

[davestarbuck]

Silhouette works for me as well. Great powder for 40 and 10mm.