Why is there more 223 ammo?

[S&W MP15T]

I've read all the stuff on the differences between .233 and 5.56x45. I accept what I've read from people who obviously know more than I. But why is it that there is so much more variety in .223 ammo than 5.56x45 considering that the majority of rifles owned and produced are chambered in 5.56x45? There are very few options in 5.56x45 besides military rounds like M193 and M855 (with the exception of Black Hills). Why aren't there more 5.56x45 rounds with SMK or other quality bullets?

[ggammell]

I don't think it's necessarily true that the majority of ARs are 5.56 chambered.

Look at the law enforcement marketed rounds. Most of them one only in .223 with a few in 5.56 (FBI spec). There is a reason for that. Using M4C as a reference might be misleading. Many members here are more in tune with the technical aspects if their guns. But there are a lot o people out there with $500-700 ARs that are chambered in .223.

I would also speculate that the material cost of building .223 ammo is less than build 5.56 spec.

[High Tower]

I would tend to think that there are far more .223 firearms out there than 5.56. A lot of bolt guns, single shots, specialty pistols etc. are chambered in .223 and are popular with varmint and target guys. Then there are all the cheap-o AR's that are stamped 5.56 but are really .223.

Because of the last fact, I would wager that many ammo companies try to avoid the lawsuits or warranty issues by just making .223 or watered down 5.56. The "just-as-good" crowd are usually the loudest complainers when their "just-as-good" AR that they bought/pieced together for $400 epically fail. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

[S&W MP15T]

Interesting. I guess I assumed wrongly that there are more 5.56x45rifles than .223. I didn't really even think about the bolt action and varmint hunting rifles. It's just that everywhere I look on the web, it's ARs chambered in 5.56x45. I did know that .223 seems to be the choice of precision long range shooters, but I assumed that that was a relatively small percentage.

[Agnostic]

I would tend to think that there are far more .223 firearms out there than 5.56. A lot of bolt guns, single shots, specialty pistols etc. are chambered in .223 and are popular with varmint and target guys. Then there are all the cheap-o AR's that are stamped 5.56 but are really .223.

Because of the last fact, I would wager that many ammo companies try to avoid the lawsuits or warranty issues by just making .223 or watered down 5.56. The "just-as-good" crowd are usually the loudest complainers when their "just-as-good" AR that they bought/pieced together for $400 epically fail. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

This. Unfortunately, folks aren't willing to take responsibility for their ignorance, and you have to protect your ammunition company from ignorant people and their crappy guns. "Your ammo blew up my AR, I want you to pay for it."

I am not trying to say there aren't times when faulty ammo is to blame for kabooms.

[anachronism]

.223 ammo can be safely fired in 5.56 guns, but the opposite isn't always true. I had a high case mortality in an AR years ago until I learned that most ARs are chambered in .223, regardless of that the markings on the barrel says. The cases have the same external dimensions, as do the bullets, but the rifles chamber dimensions, primarily in the throat differ, as do the pressures the finished cartridge is loaded to. To make everything even clearer, there are also a number of hybrid chamber designs (like the Wylde) to further complicate the issue. 223 is safe in all of them.

[S&W MP15T]

.223 ammo can be safely fired in 5.56 guns, but the opposite isn't always true. I had a high case mortality in an AR years ago until I learned that most ARs are chambered in .223, regardless of that the markings on the barrel says. The cases have the same external dimensions, as do the bullets, but the rifles chamber dimensions, primarily in the throat differ, as do the pressures the finished cartridge is loaded to. To make everything even clearer, there are also a number of hybrid chamber designs (like the Wylde) to further complicate the issue. 223 is safe in all of them.

Can I believe Smith&Wesson when they say my MP-15T is 5.56mm NATO? I've been firing mostly Federal and PMC XM193 and M855 without any problems. I will note that I've tried a few boxes of Fiocchi .223 55gr and couldn't tell the difference. But, Black Hills 77gr 5.56x45 definitely shoots better groups. I just picked up some PPU .223 69gr Match JHP to see how that does.

[HackerF15E]

Most of you have seen this, but just for review (especially useful here is the chart with comparative dimensions of several different designs/types/makes of chambers):

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

http://labscdn.luckygunner.com/labs/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/REAMER6.png

[S&W MP15T]

[QUOTE=HackerF15E;1735218]Most of you have seen this, but just for review (especially useful here is the chart with comparative dimensions of several different designs/types/makes of chambers):

I've seen this, and I absolutely agree that there are differences and one shouldn't shoot 5.56x45 NATO in a .223 rifle. But, I don't think I can figure out what's in my S&W MP-15T. I guess I'll have to take S&Ws word on it.

Back to my original question though. Are there actually a lot more .223 rifles out there compared to 5.56x45? Maybe there should be a poll. It would seem to me, unless the legal liability reason is actually true, that if it's even a 70/30 split between .223 and 5.56, there should be more 5.56x45 ammo loads and choice available.

[.46caliber]

Back to my original question though. Are there actually a lot more .223 rifles out there compared to 5.56x45? Maybe there should be a poll. It would seem to me, unless the legal liability reason is actually true, that if it's even a 70/30 split between .223 and 5.56, there should be more 5.56x45 ammo loads and choice available.

Yes there are more .223 rifles out there than 5.56. .223 is used in more than just ARs.

Poll results from this site would be skewed. Most here purchase nothing other than mil-spec rifles, so you'd probably see a favor towards 5.56 here. Go to TOS, and the numbers will be different. Go to dakotaprairiedoggers.com and your numbers will look different yet again.

What holes are there in 5.56 cartridge market?

[gashooter]

For the same reason 7.62x51 ammo is of limited component construction.

5.56x45mm ammo is generally a military or para- military round which will generally conform to XM193 or Xm855 build specs. The commercial version is .223 Remington and has SAMMI load specs where as the 556 specs are not listed by SAMMI.

Federal has their American Eagle brand and Winchester has their 556 version as these 2 makers also have gvt contracts.:dance3:

[T2C]

No worries.

I shoot both.

:cool:

[Onyx Z]

223 is SAAMI certified, 5.56 is not.

[FloridaWoodsman]

This. Unfortunately, folks aren't willing to take responsibility for their ignorance, and you have to protect your ammunition company from ignorant people and their crappy guns. "Your ammo blew up my AR, I want you to pay for it."

I am not trying to say there aren't times when faulty ammo is to blame for kabooms.
That's probably it. Lawyers rule. Why risk liabilities?

[RogerinTPA]

This. Unfortunately, folks aren't willing to take responsibility for their ignorance, and you have to protect your ammunition company from ignorant people and their crappy guns. "Your ammo blew up my AR, I want you to pay for it."

I am not trying to say there aren't times when faulty ammo is to blame for kabooms.

The problem lies in the fact that many commercial grade AR manufacturers have 5.56 stamped on the barrel when the chamber is in fact .223. This alone may account for the majority of the kabooms and popped primer issues in commercial grade guns that show up in high round count carbine courses.

[fido4x]

I have a Colt M4 stamped 5.56. I have shot both 5.56 and .223 without any issues. I have a home range and it is therefore short, 100' max. If the SHTF any shooting going on around the house will be close quarters so my 100' is just fine. At that range, both seem equally accurate. Oh, I never use steel, always brass cased and have fired a decent variety of ammo makers.

[Agnostic]

The problem lies in the fact that many commercial grade AR manufacturers have 5.56 stamped on the barrel when the chamber is in fact .223. This alone may account for the majority of the kabooms and popped primer issues in commercial grade guns that show up in high round count carbine courses.

It sucks that a firearm manufacturer would mark a barrel as 5.56 when it is in fact chambered as .223 Remington. You would think they would know their craft better than that. Or, they intentionally do it and just suck.

[.46caliber]

It sucks that a firearm manufacturer would mark a barrel as 5.56 when it is in fact chambered as .223 Remington. You would think they would know their craft better than that. Or, they intentionally do it and just suck.

Or they don't sell at a price or to a market that demands the manufacturer to care. Bubba that spends $599 on a plastic AR isn't going to shoot thousands of rounds of 5.56 every year. He will probably never know that his rifle isn't chambered as it's labeled.

Buy cheaply priced products, get cheaply made products. Cheap in material, design, QC, etc.

They order a bunch of the cheapest 5.56 barrels. Poor QC at the barrel maker, poor QC at the rifle builder. So you end up with a bunch of rifles that are somewhere in between .223 and 5.56.

I've seen fair priced products and overpriced products. I haven't seen too many underpriced products.

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[Bello]

Prices are dropping hope it to be sooner then later