View Full Version : NJ Trooper Draws Gun On Undercover Cops
platoonDaddy
09-01-13, 07:27
Dang.
Dull in middle, until SGT arrives on the scene.
video obtained 8/29/13 really heats up around 6:30
NEW JERSEY - An angry confrontation between a New Jersey State trooper and local police officers was all caught on camera.
It was an embarrassing verbal slugfest and a turf war between cops.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=94f_1377832380
Edit: I assumed it was a drug bust, but it is reported to be a friggin violation of a traffic law on the Jersey Pike! Always thought the Pike was NJSP, not a county responsibility.
“Each was doing his job…it appears that the Trooper was doing his job in stopping and investigating the motor vehicle stop and the Bergen County Police Officer conducted a motor vehicle stop for a violation of the traffic laws,” Higgins told the site in an email.
http://cliffviewpilot.com/video-nj-state-police-dashboard-camera-shows-incident-with-bergen-county-police/
madisonsfinest
09-01-13, 07:45
Not very professional on either side. The plain clothes guys were disciplined.
SpeedRacer
09-01-13, 08:12
Nice! It's like watching Jersey Shore with badges and guns.
Part of the backstory is that this area had been hit hard by police impersonators. Apparently fairly good ones. That put the Statie on edge. Understandable, but the profanity and the rapid escalation on both sides was not called for. Unsafe situation for the officers involved, and it looks very unprofessional to anyone passing by. Oh yeah, and there's still a stopped car with occupants in the picture:confused:.
There are still marks in the "Improve" column for this stop, for the officers and agencies involved. Couple things the officers and the agencies could have done to prevent or at least minimize this.
Additional:
http://www.policeone.com/traffic-patrol/articles/6418680-Video-Angry-profane-roadside-feud-between-plainclothes-officers-trooper/
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/06/11/new-jersey-police-warn-of-carjackings-by-fake-cops-on-turnpike/
Eurodriver
09-01-13, 09:43
How embarassing.
That is indeed NJ, I could tell by the Turnpike sign. Otherwise I'd never have been sure. :rolleyes:
If you think that's bad you should have heard some of the arguments at my semi-pro football games. Our league played in NJ, Philly, DE and NY in what was even for here the most rough and often undisciplined venue I'd ever been part of. Player fights, coach fights, quitting refs, buses getting the windows smashed out by the crowd at the end of a game.
Would have made for a good movie, if anyone would have believed it that is. :D
Unprofessional and confrontational conduct all the way around. Everyone has opportunity to learn here, including their administrations.
I've pointed guns at other cops that either didn't follow a warrant service plan, or weren't readily identifiable in conflict. Those events looked nothing like this video.
Unprofessional and confrontational conduct all the way around. Everyone has opportunity to learn here, including their administrations.
I've pointed guns at other cops that either didn't follow a warrant service plan, or weren't readily identifiable in conflict. Those events looked nothing like this video.
Indeed. Inter agency communication is a must. Good thing nobody was hurt.
SeriousStudent
09-01-13, 12:57
I'm with Big A - I'm very relieved no one was injured.
I hope the hot wash after this was very thorough, and everybody walked away smarter.
I'm confused. Where was Snooki?
Is it any wonder that more and more non-LE individuals are more and more scared and distrustful of LE? You never know what kind of hothead might be walking up to your car with a gun on his hip and a badge. I hate that I can't tell my daughters to always trust the police anymore.
Voodoochild
09-01-13, 13:36
I can see where the Statie is coming from on this one. A minivan is not exactly a common unmarked police vic. And especially with all the shenanigans going on with the police imposters.
I'm confused. Where was Snooki?
Is it any wonder that more and more non-LE individuals are more and more scared and distrustful of LE? You never know what kind of hothead might be walking up to your car with a gun on his hip and a badge. I hate that I can't tell my daughters to always trust the police anymore.
While there are bad cops everywhere this is an unfair statement about LE in general. Those men may not have acted like many you know but they are nothing unusual around here. To be an alpha male of sorts in NJ you better be tough and ready to prove it, so it come with their territory so to speak.
Are all NJ officers like that? No, but there will be more here than most places because it's the nature of the beast. In fact none of them are likely malevolent or corrupt, just typical Jersey tough guys doing a tough job. Still I bet even they wish they did things a little different and surely this will be used as a statewide training aid.
While there are bad cops everywhere this is an unfair statement about LE in general. Those men may not have acted like many you know but they are nothing unusual around here. To be an alpha male of sorts in NJ you better be tough and ready to prove it, so it come with their territory so to speak.
I actually didn't mean to paint all LE in a negative light. Around my neck of the woods a large portion of LE would be stopped if seen cruising through a suburban neighborhood in a regular car and out of uniform because most of them resemble Mexican gang members. Covered in tats, bandanas, etc... So I wasn't really speaking to the regional "uniqueness" of the New Jersey male displayed in the video. :sarcastic: It just seems like LE in general have a heightened level of aggression lately.
PA PATRIOT
09-01-13, 15:16
As for the video of the L/E's yelling at each other it was poor judgment on the verbal part from both sides but the township guys pushed the issue and even chest bumped the trooper which if I was running the townships department I would have given a hefty suspension if not terminated that officer for conduct unbecoming of a officer. On the NJSP side I would have also suspended the trooper for not using better sense and walking away once he was sure the township officers were really cops and not engaging in a long drawn out bitch fest.
On a side note I had a NJ township officer pull me over for speeding last week in a unmarked SUV but the officer was in full uniform. He was very professional, polite and never even took my license just giving me a friendly reminder of what the speed limit was.
I was impressed with his demeanor and tactics while approaching my auto and he never asked if there was a gun in the vehicle, he also responded nicely to my wife and kids who said hello to him.
As for the speeding part I was most likely guiltily of that as I was looking at directions on the GPS unit when my radar detector went "BEEP", I think I was going 15 mph over the posted limit and would have deserved a ticket if issued.
platoonDaddy
09-01-13, 16:20
Since this is a trooper video, wonder who released and why. Certainly the agencies involved all looked very unprofessional.
If as stated the trooper was a rookie, he certainly stood his ground. Wonder why he didn't call for backup, as the uncover guys did (at least I am assuming they did, because the SGT and another officer showed up)?
Belmont31R
09-01-13, 17:01
At least they weren't thrown in jail like anyone else would for doing the same thing as those plain clothes guys.
With NJ's new laws they can have anyone added to the gov list of people who don't have rights anymore.
Hasn't NJ law enforcement had to deal with Blomberg's Gestapo operating within their sovereign borders a few times?
As for NJ law enforcement, every episode of COPS I've seen involving them seems to have multiple references to "youse guys". I'm still waiting for them to stop for some "pie" on a lunch break! Of course,I did get to interact with exiled NJ and NY citizens on a daily basis and some things never change :D
The Trooper was on point in the beginning and then it just turned into a testosterone fueled, immature tough guy fest, especially on the part of the PC guys. These are not the types of individuals I'd want having a badge, a gun and the responsibilities that go along with it. If they treat each other that way how do you think they treat the citizens they're sworn to protect & serve?
This page has the BOLO carjacking warnings, towards the bottom, sent out by NJSP. (http://cliffviewpilot.com/video-nj-state-police-dashboard-camera-shows-ergen-county-police-confrontation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
The Trooper was on point in the beginning and then it just turned into a testosterone fueled, immature tough guy fest, especially on the part of the PC guys. These are not the types of individuals I'd want having a badge, a gun and the responsibilities that go along with it. If they treat each other that way how do you think they treat the citizens they're sworn to protect & serve?
This page has the BOLO carjacking warnings, towards the bottom, sent out by NJSP. (http://cliffviewpilot.com/video-nj-state-police-dashboard-camera-shows-ergen-county-police-confrontation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
It looks like the county officers have been disciplined. In my county (Mecklenburg NC) they would have likely been fired. There is very little tolerance for that in most southern departments (Miami, New Orleans, and Atlanta are a different story).
IMHO (I'm not LE) I'd have to say it would make most sense on both sides, if rolling up to a stop in this situation, that the officer in the MARKED cruiser and in UNIFORM would be the one who would have the most right to be suspicious, and the officers NOT in uniform and unmarked should be doing the best to identify themselves.
IMHO (I'm not LE) I'd have to say it would make most sense on both sides, if rolling up to a stop in this situation, that the officer in the MARKED cruiser and in UNIFORM would be the one who would have the most right to be suspicious, and the officers NOT in uniform and unmarked should be doing the best to identify themselves.
From my understanding, after talking to a buddy, that's how it should've gone down. It's really common sense if you think about it. If their tough guy egos wouldn't have gotten in the way no one would even know that it occurred other than the guys on scene.
Trooper rolls up and plays it safe, weapon drawn, like he should.
We're PC here's our badges & ID's.
Thanks guys there's been a bunch of police impersonators carjacking people lately.
No shit? Thanks for stopping to check and make sure Joe Citizen was getting pulled over by legit police, be safe.
Mauser KAR98K
09-01-13, 22:36
...Yankees.....
It looks like the county officers have been disciplined. In my county (Mecklenburg NC) they would have likely been fired. There is very little tolerance for that in most southern departments (Miami, New Orleans, and Atlanta are a different story).
As it should be.
From my understanding, after talking to a buddy, that's how it should've gone down. It's really common sense if you think about it. If their tough guy egos wouldn't have gotten in the way no one would even know that it occurred other than the guys on scene.
Trooper rolls up and plays it safe, weapon drawn, like he should.
We're PC here's our badges & ID's.
Thanks guys there's been a bunch of police impersonators carjacking people lately.
No shit? Thanks for stopping to check and make sure Joe Citizen was getting pulled over by legit police, be safe.
Bingo! Uniform trumps plain clothes or off duty when it comes time to identify and link up.
This could have even been ironed out earlier.
@ NJSP briefing:
Watch Commander/OIC/Sgt: "OK, one more thing. We all know there have been a few carjackings by police impersonators along the Turnpike corridor near Teaneck. BCPD is going to have plain clothes units in unmarkeds out in that area addressing a couple different issues. They haven't asked us to stay close for backup or to stay away. But, if you see an unmarked make a traffic stop in that area, keep that in mind."
(Assuming the plain clothes presence was part of a larger op in the area)
Later that day, when the Statie calls out his stop:
Dispatch: "SP123, can you confirm your location?"
Trooper: "Northbound on the Pike, coming up to 80."
D: "Got it. FYI, BCPD just went out at that location 3 minutes ago. They're in an unmarked."
(Assuming those agencies use the same Dispatch, or the dispatchers can communicate with each other, and assuming that the PC guys radioed in their stop-which they should)
Someone on another forum noted that the trooper might have known that it was a PD car when he ran the plate before popping out. That might be the case, but (and again this will vary by region and department) some unmarked units' plates may return to the agency, or to a cover ID (probably more common with narc units).
Good point, Voodoochild; LEA's don't often use minivans for enforcement operations, even in plainclothes units. At least here, its rare to see an unmarked minivan with a light package, that's assigned to anything other than prisoner transport. It does happen though.
IMHO (I'm not LE) I'd have to say it would make most sense on both sides, if rolling up to a stop in this situation, that the officer in the MARKED cruiser and in UNIFORM would be the one who would have the most right to be suspicious, and the officers NOT in uniform and unmarked should be doing the best to identify themselves.
In every training I've ever been to, UCs and plainclothes in contacts such as these are advised to defer to arriving uniforms and follow their instructions explicitly. Such advisements are about the same as those given to citizen CCWers when in contact with arriving LEOs, including but not limited to not having a gun in your hand, not arguing, and doing exactly what you're told. For all the same reasons.
ThirdWatcher
09-02-13, 00:48
In every training I've ever been to, UCs and plainclothes in contacts such as these are advised to defer to arriving uniforms and follow their instructions explicitly. Such advisements are about the same as those given to citizen CCWers when in contact with arriving LEOs, including but not limited to not having a gun in your hand, not arguing, and doing exactly what you're told. For all the same reasons.
Absolutely right... that's how we avoid blue-on-blue incidents. In my corner of the country, we would never treat a fellow LEO with such disrespect. In addition, State Troopers have the primary jurisdiction on Interstate highways here (maye it's different in New Jersey?).
Reminds me of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEPu_i-q_NE
dwhitehorne
09-02-13, 08:02
All of us that have been in uniform have seen the guy that is far superior once he gets out of uniform. I need a straight leg for a transport or send me a uniform for traffic control goes over the radio. Interagency pissing contests are always embarrassing. David
Was this just a standard traffic stop? Or were the the undercover cops making a felony arrest for something else?
If it was just a driving violation I see no reason a cop should be out of uniform and in a mini van, drug stake out yes, speeding no.
platoonDaddy
09-02-13, 12:56
Was this just a standard traffic stop? Or were the the undercover cops making a felony arrest for something else?
If it was just a driving violation I see no reason a cop should be out of uniform and in a mini van, drug stake out yes, speeding no.
I assumed it was a drug bust, but it is reported to be a friggin violation of a traffic law on the Jersey Pike! Always thought the Pike was NJSP, not a county responsibility.
“Each was doing his job…it appears that the Trooper was doing his job in stopping and investigating the motor vehicle stop and the Bergen County Police Officer conducted a motor vehicle stop for a violation of the traffic laws,” Higgins told the site in an email.
http://cliffviewpilot.com/video-nj-state-police-dashboard-camera-shows-incident-with-bergen-county-police/
Man, I hate living here...
Alaskapopo
09-03-13, 12:46
IMHO (I'm not LE) I'd have to say it would make most sense on both sides, if rolling up to a stop in this situation, that the officer in the MARKED cruiser and in UNIFORM would be the one who would have the most right to be suspicious, and the officers NOT in uniform and unmarked should be doing the best to identify themselves.
We agree. Egos got the best of them here and common sense was not to be found.
Pat
Man, I hate living here...
As you would know that tape accurately reflects a segment of life here, but it wouldn't indicate that 9.5 out of 10 people will also either hold the door open for you or make sure to thank you for doing likewise. At least if you don't live in one of the three big cities anyway (Trenton, Newark or Camden).
In other words it's not all bad here and people from this state or the surrounding regions often have interesting character. :D
Felt bad for the uniformed trooper, to be honest. The rest of it just sounds like good ol' New Jersey to me.
If I thought I was rolling up on fake cops (likely with real guns) I wouldn't wade into the middle of them and then let them walk away as well. You either really think they are fake and call for backup and stay behind cover or let it go.
HighSpeedDreams
09-10-13, 20:21
Out of control.
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