View Full Version : Larue predatOBR
Anybody seen this yet? Rifle breaks down to be put in a black diamond plate toolbox (or whatever you want). The barrel, hand guard, upper & lower, and stock all break down. You are supposed to be able to reassemble and retain zero. Pictures and you tube video of process up on web.
Just watched the video. That is one great piece of engineering. Solves ever getting a lot of dirt or mud under the rail and it would make cleaning much easier. I would like one but I'm guessing the price point will be pretty high.
7.62-$3370
5.56-$2245
BTW comes w/AR Gold trigger
Just watched the video. That is one great piece of engineering. Solves ever getting a lot of dirt or mud under the rail and it would make cleaning much easier. I would like one but I'm guessing the price point will be pretty high.
Can you post a link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgib9E9dt0
sinlessorrow
09-02-13, 11:40
7.62-$3370
5.56-$2245
BTW comes w/AR Gold trigger
Thats a really good price and of course its a Larue.
F-Trooper05
09-02-13, 11:55
So you don't need to grease the barrel nut, or use a torque wrench?
It's a very slick system. It assembles very quickly and is also easy to break down. I really want one in 14.5 308.
SilverBullet432
09-02-13, 12:13
cam lock handgaurd. very innovative, whats better is that it holds zero!
sinlessorrow
09-02-13, 12:17
So you don't need to grease the barrel nut, or use a torque wrench?
Nope, and repeatable zero within 0.5
Apparently the .5 is for those that are completely mechanically challenged :confused: Otherwise, if you have 1/2 a clue then it should be damn near right on zero :D
F-Trooper05
09-02-13, 12:22
Nope, and repeatable zero within 0.5
If true, then that's insane. Remind me what the estimated barrel life is?
Larue is making their own barrels now. They say the barrel life is approximately 10,000 rd's w/ SS barrel (according to website).
sinlessorrow
09-02-13, 12:33
If true, then that's insane. Remind me what the estimated barrel life is?
10,000 from a SS barrel.
Watching the video I can say that, aside from cleaning, I don't see a ton of benefit over simply removing the upper from the lower.
FChen17213
09-02-13, 18:55
If this thing will hold zero for both quick change barrel and any sighting device put on the rail, then that's truly an amazing system. It'll make cleaning underneath the hand guards a breeze too. The video really does make me want a PredatOBR. The price point really isn't too bad either considering what other companies want for their 7.62 NATO rifles. The wait is the killer though. There's no telling how long it is, but I think more than a year is a safe bet.
Cylinder Head
09-02-13, 21:46
Supposedly bringing the barrel manufacturing indoors will speed up their process a bit. I still refuse to wait over a year for a LaRue when I can buy a KAC now.
That did not help with my lust for a 16" 7.62.
Ooooooh damn.
sinlessorrow
09-02-13, 23:05
If this thing will hold zero for both quick change barrel and any sighting device put on the rail, then that's truly an amazing system. It'll make cleaning underneath the hand guards a breeze too. The video really does make me want a PredatOBR. The price point really isn't too bad either considering what other companies want for their 7.62 NATO rifles. The wait is the killer though. There's no telling how long it is, but I think more than a year is a safe bet.
With a good RTZ mount yes, both barrel and mount will hold zero.
That cam lock handguard is genius.
wetidlerjr
09-03-13, 06:35
Supposedly bringing the barrel manufacturing indoors will speed up their process a bit. I still refuse to wait over a year for a LaRue when I can buy a KAC now.
Hard to argue with that.
That cam lock handguard is genius.Clever idea but seems more like a novelty to me. I'll take a more secure method of locking down my handguard.
Watching the video I can say that, aside from cleaning, I don't see a ton of benefit over simply removing the upper from the lower.
Me too, but cool design.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 08:25
I remember SOCOM looking for a gun they could break down and put in a small suit case, this seems to fit that bill.
Thys where the paratus came from as well. So it makes me wonder if that is not where the idea of this came from, I could be wrong as well.
Nightstalker865
09-03-13, 08:32
Man that's a nice setup. Wonder how long the wait is for one?
I love my PredatAR but I am not sure I am into this.
The removal of the rail on the PredatAR is easy enough with 4 screws, sure this is easier, but is it needed?
I dunno, just not sure about it.
The wait does suck, when I ordered my 18" 7.62 OBR about 4 months ago I was told "over a year" Oh well, gives me time to save up lol.
I love my PredatAR but I am not sure I am into this.
The removal of the rail on the PredatAR is easy enough with 4 screws, sure this is easier, but is it needed?
I dunno, just not sure about it.
The wait does suck, when I ordered my 18" 7.62 OBR about 4 months ago I was told "over a year" Oh well, gives me time to save up lol.
I'm currently at a year in the wait. I think it'll be less than a month from now, but that's jus tme being hopeful.
I'm currently at a year in the wait. I think it'll be less than a month from now, but that's jus tme being hopeful.
When you do get it post an update/range report ;)
I'm currently at a year in the wait. I think it'll be less than a month from now, but that's jus tme being hopeful.
In April of 2012 I was told 12-16 weeks for the PredatAR... was delivered in October ;-) lol
3-4 months turned into 6 months, I am sure "over a year" will turn into longer, but like I said, gives me time to save up.
I would rather wait than have LaRue slap a gun together just to get it out the door.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 11:43
There is no way they are getting RTZ with that setup. Removal of the barrel...... especialy in a precision rifle.
The only thing you are saving is the length of the reciver in addition to the barrel.
If they don't care about precision, then how is this that much smaller than a MK18 broken into two halves and stored? That is still quicker, is smaller, and has no effect on POI/POA vs the larue.
It's a novelty, and nothing more.
I like the setup of the PredatOBR; however, the "breakdown" capability is not a selling point for me. If Mr. Larue has come up with a way to break a precision AR down and have it reassemble without loss of zero....great. I personally have no need to break an AR down for storage/transport into a package any smaller than simply separating the upper and lower halves (I use the Larue discreet case...very nice). This is a cool concept, just not for me. Regardless, I would ALWAYS confirm my zero upon reassembly if this is a defense/duty rifle.....the only responsible thing to do.
SilverBullet432
09-03-13, 12:28
There is no way they are getting RTZ with that setup. Removal of the barrel...... especialy in a precision rifle.
The only thing you are saving is the length of the reciver in addition to the barrel.
If they don't care about precision, then how is this that much smaller than a MK18 broken into two halves and stored? That is still quicker, is smaller, and has no effect on POI/POA vs the larue.
It's a novelty, and nothing more.
LaRue is known for their precision products, i think they know what theyre doing.
These guns arent just for civilian use, some tactical applications require the use of special weapons, these guys just found a simpler way of lugging it around
PalmettoPrecision
09-03-13, 12:30
I am interested in the performance of the new in house barrels compared to the previous LW barrels.
I'm also skeptical of the return to zero when the barrel is being removed. I have no doubts that it's going to be a very accurate gun. Larue hasn't disappointed in that regards. Return to zero by removing the barrel though... ehhhhhh.. I'm not sold on that capability. I'll just keep mine attached. I trust their return to zero capability with their mounts, though, so if they've figured out a way, then that makes this a pretty special gun.
The removable handguards, though is kind of a nifty little feature. again, many folks (myself included) trust their mounts to have repeatable return to zero.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 12:42
LaRue is known for their precision products, i think they know what theyre doing.
These guns arent just for civilian use, some tactical applications require the use of special weapons, these guys just found a simpler way of lugging it around
Meh, hes like that with everything. Precision is what Larue does.
In a COMPLETELY different system and setup. The LMT MRP does a pretty good job of maintaining zero when the barrel is removed and then put back. The way in which they do it (two screws) not at all what Larue is doing, nor is the LMT a precision rifle. However, this demonstrates that it can be done. If anyone can make such a concept happen in a precision setup, it would be Larue and his guys. They also make great cooking condiments (Dillo dust).
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 13:00
In a COMPLETELY different system and setup. The LMT MRP does a pretty good job of maintaining zero when the barrel is removed and then put back. The way in which they do it (two screws) not at all what Larue is doing, nor is the LMT a precision rifle. However, this demonstrates that it can be done. If anyone can make such a concept happen in a precision setup, it would be Larue and his guys. They also make great cooking condiments (Dillo dust).
Not a big dillo dust fan, then again im from the SE so we do it a bit different here.
That said if the Paratus can pull it off, no doubt Larue can.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 18:15
LaRue is known for their precision products, i think they know what theyre doing.
These guns arent just for civilian use, some tactical applications require the use of special weapons, these guys just found a simpler way of lugging it around
Anyone can make a rifle as accurate as on OBR.. There is no trickery to making an accurate AR. Use a great Barrel, Float it, Good trigger, ammo and monkey behind it......... Its all in the barrel brah
Precision and QD are mutually exclusive.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 18:19
Meh, hes like that with everything. Precision is what Larue does.
Blind faith.....
Larue does not even make their own barrels (for now) and has been building rifles for less than 4 years. I hardly call them an epicenter of precision.
I will let y'all know when I receive mine. Order was placed in 3/17/12 for 7.62 16.1 barrel. The TOBR are shipping out with Larue's own barrel and I'm looking forward to the multi caliber capabilities - although I don't think this will happen anytime soon.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 18:37
Blind faith.....
Larue does not even make their own barrels (for now) and has been building rifles for less than 4 years. I hardly call them an epicenter of precision.
Larue is making the barrels in the PredatOBR, If a company like DRS can make the Paratus work, Larue can make this work. It will work.
SilverBullet432
09-03-13, 18:46
The predatobr is on my list, along with a diplomat :D a guy can dream no?
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 18:46
Larue is making the barrels in the PredatOBR, If a company like DRS can make the Paratus work, Larue can make this work. It will work.
Amazing that companies that have been in the precision game for decades, have yet to be able to make a QD barrel work.
You are going to have POI/POI shift, especialy with the way the larue barrel nut is set up. There is no way you are going to get the same possition, torque, and pressure every time.
Furthermore, you are blindly saying they can make this and will work, when you have no proof whatsoever. Sounds like you drink a little too much of the Larue coolaid.
The only thing "new" about this, the the cam locked rail.
In the end, this offers little to nothing over breaking down an AR. You save what....? 6" inches or so of receiver when you take the barrel off? Cannot think of an application where a precision rifle would need to be able broken down that far. What kind of range and terminal ballistics do you expect out of a .308 frame gun? Try running .260/6.5CM/.243 out of a short barrel and let me know how that works for you.
If it NEEDs to be short, than a bullpup is the only way to go without sacrificing barrel length that is needed for most of those rounds to be effective.
So does anyone have hands on experience with this system or is it all speculation at this point? It may have POI shift, it may not. I'd love to see some facts. Please, I am interested.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 19:12
So does anyone have hands on experience with this system or is it all speculation at this point? It may have POI shift, it may not. I'd love to see some facts. Please, I am interested.
If larue came out and said they have this new rail that defies gravity and add's zero weight to your rifle......there would be people here who eat it up.
THINK.....No one had been able to make a QD, RTZ optic mount. Some are better than others, but you are still going to have shift. What makes you think that they can remove the barrel using a normal style barrel nut (when any person who has worked on rifles can tell you, POI changes when you remove/re-install a barrel)?
Larue is losing out on the mount/rail game. They have an archaic and dated design. Their rails are old tech and heavy/expensive. Their mounts are inferior to their competition. The ONLY thing they have going for them is their guns. You would think the dillo dust is made of pixie dust the way some people rock their jock.
So does anyone have hands on experience with this system or is it all speculation at this point? It may have POI shift, it may not. I'd love to see some facts. Please, I am interested.
The first confirmed unit was shipped out to someone last week, so I would expect to see facts concerning this be verified/challenged over the next few months - info on that unit is online.
There have been units out in the field for over a year now, but little information has been leaked - basically the only info that I've seen online on those units was pictures of the tool box and the rifle.
I will test this as soon as I receive mine as well as others.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 19:16
Amazing that companies that have been in the precision game for decades, have yet to be able to make a QD barrel work.
You are going to have POI/POI shift, especialy with the way the larue barrel nut is set up. There is no way you are going to get the same possition, torque, and pressure every time.
Furthermore, you are blindly saying they can make this and will work, when you have no proof whatsoever. Sounds like you drink a little too much of the Larue coolaid.
The only thing "new" about this, the the cam locked rail.
In the end, this offers little to nothing over breaking down an AR. You save what....? 6" inches or so of receiver when you take the barrel off? Cannot think of an application where a precision rifle would need to be able broken down that far. What kind of range and terminal ballistics do you expect out of a .308 frame gun? Try running .260/6.5CM/.243 out of a short barrel and let me know how that works for you.
If it NEEDs to be short, than a bullpup is the only way to go without sacrificing barrel length that is needed for most of those rounds to be effective.
Oddly enough SOCOM put out a RFP for such a system....I'm sure some said they would never develop a RTZ mounting system either.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 19:31
Oddly enough SOCOM put out a RFP for such a system....I'm sure some said they would never develop a RTZ mounting system either.
RFP's get sent out all the time for silly shit. I worked for years in government and DoD procurement. It means little other than SOCOM THINKS they want this and THINKS it may be possible. THINKING and REALITY are rarely one in the same.
Still waiting for the RTZ mount system you are talking about. I have yet to see it.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/238824_16_7_62_PredatOBR_1_MOA_All_Day___update_pg_1.html
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 20:35
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/238824_16_7_62_PredatOBR_1_MOA_All_Day___update_pg_1.html
Looks like it works as advertised.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 20:43
Looks like it works as advertised.
Its barley a 1 MOA rifle, With MATCH AMMO, with a small sample size and no proof/independent testing.
Add ATLEAST 3/8" POI shift into this(with matched, Match ammo. Want to guess how many brands of diff ammo was tried to get the best shooting factory ammo?)
Not even close to a precision rifle.
Keep sucking down the Larue coolaid.
I don't even know why I bother debating with some people, Its a waste of time.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 20:50
Its barley a 1 MOA rifle, With MATCH AMMO, with a small sample size and no proof/independent testing.
Add ATLEAST 3/8" POI shift into this(with matched, Match ammo. Want to guess how many brands of diff ammo was tried to get the best shooting factory ammo?)
Not even close to a precision rifle.
Keep sucking down the Larue coolaid.
I don't even know why I bother debating with some people, Its a waste of time.
Lets see as advertised.....a .89-1moa group, and a .0-.5" return when rebarreling....as advertised.
Why so mad?
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 20:53
Lets see as advertised.....a .89-1moa group, and a .0-.5" return when rebarreling....as advertised.
Why so mad?
Who is mad?
Larue is mad because the best they can do is 1.5 MOA on something they consider a precision product.
Ive got rack grade, non FF AR's that will beat that..........LOL
KEEEEEP on keeping on there.
thopkins22
09-03-13, 20:54
I don't even know why I bother debating with some people, Its a waste of time.
You haven't been debating. You've all been saying things without proof, just emotions, and gut feelings.
I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. I own ZERO Larue rifles(nor do I plan to,) but I do use several of their mounts. Some because that was all that was available when I was looking, some because there is nothing else on the market that offers me what I wanted, and some because they're a known standard and simple. Are the mounts RTZ? Mine are close enough that my rifle and ammo won't show me any shift.
Mark is a giant d-bag, who's built an annoying cult following. But he does generally put out products that work well. I fully expect that this rifle will work and be accurate. I'd also say that regardless of whether or not he was building barrels, the Larue uppers and rifles I've seen were lights out accurate.
ETA: Return to zero from a barrel change is pretty pointless to me anyway. There are reasons to change barrels, but none of them require you to immediately have a hard zero. If that was your goal you'd just carry a different upper with an already zeroed optic on it. I care about whether or not it holds zero, is reliable, and is sufficiently accurate.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 20:57
Who is mad?
Larue is mad because the best they can do is 1.5 MOA on something they consider a precision product.
Ive got rack grade, non FF AR's that will beat that..........LOL
KEEEEEP on keeping on there.
1.5? huh, I saw a .86 and a .98 group.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 21:26
1.5? huh, I saw a .86 and a .98 group.
Basic Math would indicate 1 MOA rifle + .50 MOA POI Shift = 1.5MOA Variance. And that is best case scenario with cherry picked variables.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 21:49
You haven't been debating. You've all been saying things without proof, just emotions, and gut feelings.
I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. I own ZERO Larue rifles(nor do I plan to,) but I do use several of their mounts. Some because that was all that was available when I was looking, some because there is nothing else on the market that offers me what I wanted, and some because they're a known standard and simple. Are the mounts RTZ? Mine are close enough that my rifle and ammo won't show me any shift.
Mark is a giant d-bag, who's built an annoying cult following. But he does generally put out products that work well. I fully expect that this rifle will work and be accurate. I'd also say that regardless of whether or not he was building barrels, the Larue uppers and rifles I've seen were lights out accurate.
ETA: Return to zero from a barrel change is pretty pointless to me anyway. There are reasons to change barrels, but none of them require you to immediately have a hard zero. If that was your goal you'd just carry a different upper with an already zeroed optic on it. I care about whether or not it holds zero, is reliable, and is sufficiently accurate.
There is no emotion. Gut feeling is logic. Based on historical evidence and reason.
Something that has been proven time and time again, to not work........all of a sudden ML figures it out? Forgive me if I am skeptical.
Are you shooting precision rifles? There is a reason, that NOBODY who is serious about the sport/hobby/application, is using them on rifles. Take a look at the precision rifle series, considered by many to be the top level long range practical shooting comp, and tell me how many in the top 25 are using QD mounts of any sort.
Larue mounts are fine if you are not worried about eeking out every last tenth of an inch, and don't mind your rails getting ****ed up in the process. He makes alot of mounts, that others do not make, which is nice. However his design is outdated. He has not shipped rifles in months. He is out touting new rifles, when he cant even ship old designs that have been backlogged over a year. I wouldn't buy shit from him when you can get a GAP/KAC/LMT , today.
Larue is losing out on the mount/rail game. They have an archaic and dated design. Their rails are old tech and heavy/expensive. Their mounts are inferior to their competition.
What makes their mounts archaic or dated exactly?
I understand arguments/being skeptical about RTZ and POI shift but do the mounts lose zero? Do they fall off the rifle?
I'm being honest here, did their quality take a dump? I've never personaly heard anything bad about their mounts.
sinlessorrow
09-03-13, 21:52
There is no emotion. Gut feeling is logic. Based on historical evidence and reason.
Something that has been proven time and time again, to not work........all of a sudden ML figures it out? Forgive me if I am skeptical.
Are you shooting precision rifles? There is a reason, that NOBODY who is serious about the sport/hobby/application, is using them on rifles. Take a look at the precision rifle series, considered by many to be the top level long range practical shooting comp, and tell me how many in the top 25 are using QD mounts of any sort.
Larue mounts are fine if you are not worried about eeking out every last tenth of an inch, and don't mind your rails getting ****ed up in the process. He makes alot of mounts, that others do not make, which is nice. However his design is outdated. He has not shipped rifles in months. He is out touting new rifles, when he cant even ship old designs that have been backlogged over a year. I wouldn't buy shit from him when you can get a GAP/KAC/LMT , today.
What about Larue mounts is "outdated"?
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 22:02
What about Larue mounts is "outdated"?
Use the search function. Hell, Ive stated it more than half a dozen times on this site alone. No need to change direction of the thread.
thopkins22
09-03-13, 22:06
Are you shooting precision rifles?With Badger Ordnance rings. ;)
Larue mounts are fine if you are not worried about eeking out every last tenth of an inch, and don't mind your rails getting ****ed up in the process.
I've seen rails slightly dinged up by pretty much every big name mount out there. Actually ADM did more scratching to one of my rails than the little polished looking spot from LT mounts. But that ADM was a good mount, and I still use that ADM mount on my current 3-gun rifle. But yes, I agree that if you're going QD you cannot allow yourself to get caught up in tenths of MOA.
Properly adjusted, LT mounts do take off some anodizing. Then again, my metal adjuster on my VCAS sling takes off anodizing too...and sometimes it takes it off of scopes that cost more than the rifle. And I definitely hear you about the rails he's still selling. Solid, but not with the times.
Edit to get back on topic: I don't really doubt that his claims are true, and you're still correct on some level. His rifle likely will be subMOA with the right loads, and it likely won't exhibit perfect RTZ.
TurretGunner
09-03-13, 22:09
With Badger Ordnance rings. ;)
I've seen rails slightly dinged up by pretty much every big name mount out there. Actually ADM did more scratching to one of my rails than the little polished looking spot from LT mounts. But that ADM was a good mount, and I still use that ADM mount on my current 3-gun rifle. But yes, I agree that if you're going QD you cannot allow yourself to get caught up in tenths of MOA.
Properly adjusted, LT mounts do take off some anodizing. Then again, my metal adjuster on my VCAS sling takes off anodizing too...and sometimes it takes it off of scopes that cost more than the rifle. And I definitely hear you about the rails he's still selling. Solid, but not with the times.
If you get a chance, try out a BOBRO. That is if you NEED QD.
I run Badger and KAC 1 pieces on my AR's. The Badger is HARD to beat for the money and weight.
EDIT: Sorry for Detour. Just saw that there is a dude that has been waiting over 2 YEARS for his OBR. That is just crazy.
There is no emotion. Gut feeling is logic. Based on historical evidence and reason.
Something that has been proven time and time again, to not work........all of a sudden ML figures it out? Forgive me if I am skeptical.
Are you shooting precision rifles? There is a reason, that NOBODY who is serious about the sport/hobby/application, is using them on rifles. Take a look at the precision rifle series, considered by many to be the top level long range practical shooting comp, and tell me how many in the top 25 are using QD mounts of any sort.
Larue mounts are fine if you are not worried about eeking out every last tenth of an inch, and don't mind your rails getting ****ed up in the process. He makes alot of mounts, that others do not make, which is nice. However his design is outdated. He has not shipped rifles in months. He is out touting new rifles, when he cant even ship old designs that have been backlogged over a year. I wouldn't buy shit from him when you can get a GAP/KAC/LMT , today.
Amazing that companies that have been in the precision game for decades, have yet to be able to make a QD barrel work.
You are going to have POI/POI shift, especialy with the way the larue barrel nut is set up. There is no way you are going to get the same possition, torque, and pressure every time.
Furthermore, you are blindly saying they can make this and will work, when you have no proof whatsoever. Sounds like you drink a little too much of the Larue coolaid.
The only thing "new" about this, the the cam locked rail.
In the end, this offers little to nothing over breaking down an AR. You save what....? 6" inches or so of receiver when you take the barrel off? Cannot think of an application where a precision rifle would need to be able broken down that far. What kind of range and terminal ballistics do you expect out of a .308 frame gun? Try running .260/6.5CM/.243 out of a short barrel and let me know how that works for you.
If it NEEDs to be short, than a bullpup is the only way to go without sacrificing barrel length that is needed for most of those rounds to be effective.
It might seem as if Im picking on you by calling you out twice now in precision type threads within the last few weeks, but like last time....your spewing bullsh*t on a subject that I have extensively studied over the years, and unlike 99% of folks online sharing an opinion on this.....you can find my evaluations, testings, and conclusions in regards to LP rifles, and even more specifically RTZ barrel rifles (own 5 LMT monolithic chassis QD barrel systems), and RTZ mounts (half dozen ADM/Larue models) throughout my posting history.
So while your entitled to any opinion you want on these matters, you can't keep masquerading it as if it were anything but one member's unqualified thoughts.
If need be, I can point you to my old evals. tests, and thoughts that have documented my continual success RTZing both LMT chassis/barrels, and ADM/Larue mounts.
If I'm not actually posting the "goods", I only weigh in on M4C when I have first hand, real world opinions that are at least based on actually shooting rifles, even if I haven't extensively studied the topic at hand. M4C only works when folks remember that imho.
I just wasted 15 mins reading the last two pages. I ordered both the 7.62 and 5.56 PredatOBR because I can and wanted to run my own eval. :p. I agree with Trident - Data speaks louder than words.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/171278_Damn_it__look_at_this_LaRue_mount_repeatability_test_________.html
TurretGunner
09-04-13, 06:39
It might seem as if Im picking on you by calling you out twice now in precision type threads within the last few weeks, but like last time....your spewing bullsh*t on a subject that I have extensively studied over the years, and unlike 99% of folks online sharing an opinion on this.....you can find my evaluations, testings, and conclusions in regards to LP rifles, and even more specifically RTZ barrel rifles (own 5 LMT monolithic chassis QD barrel systems), and RTZ mounts (half dozen ADM/Larue models) throughout my posting history.
So while your entitled to any opinion you want on these matters, you can't keep masquerading it as if it were anything but one member's unqualified thoughts.
If need be, I can point you to my old evals. tests, and thoughts that have documented my continual success RTZing both LMT chassis/barrels, and ADM/Larue mounts.
If I'm not actually posting the "goods", I only weigh in on M4C when I have first hand, real world opinions that are at least based on actually shooting rifles, even if I haven't extensively studied the topic at hand. M4C only works when folks remember that imho.
Trident, You are not the the only person who has used these items. I have owned around half a dozen ARMS, Larue, ADM and Bobro each.
1. The LMT is NOT a precision rifle. It's a DMR type rifle that sometimes is cappable of being pretty accurate. Most I have seen even with the SS barrel are 1 MOA rifles.(CL, another story)
2. The LMT Barrel lockup and the Larue Lockup are not the same. The LMT atleast lends itself to some sort of repeatability. The Larue is using HAND torque, not even a tool to ensure repeatability.
3. There is always shift with QD mounts. Both the Larue and ADM are inferior to other designs. I would like to see your "data".
4. One person's data set means about as much in your own words 'one member's unqualified thoughts'.
So do me a favor and stop calling other members unqualified yet pushing your own brand of semi-reasoning. People have been using these products for years, and have already determined if they meet their needs or not.
Last time I checked this was a discussion about a new Product. I guess based on your criteria of who should and should not post here, unless one already owns/shot a PretaOBR, they should just keep their mouth shut? In that case, there wouldn't even be a thread.
Bolt_Overide
09-04-13, 08:14
Ive got a better idea, how bout you both take it to PMs so the rest of us can read the subject at hand and not your pissing match, KTHX.
With Badger Ordnance rings. ;)
I've seen rails slightly dinged up by pretty much every big name mount out there. Actually ADM did more scratching to one of my rails than the little polished looking spot from LT mounts. But that ADM was a good mount, and I still use that ADM mount on my current 3-gun rifle. But yes, I agree that if you're going QD you cannot allow yourself to get caught up in tenths of MOA.
Properly adjusted, LT mounts do take off some anodizing. Then again, my metal adjuster on my VCAS sling takes off anodizing too...and sometimes it takes it off of scopes that cost more than the rifle. And I definitely hear you about the rails he's still selling. Solid, but not with the times.
Edit to get back on topic: I don't really doubt that his claims are true, and you're still correct on some level. His rifle likely will be subMOA with the right loads, and it likely won't exhibit perfect RTZ.
Read my comments here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=136630
C4
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/171278_Damn_it__look_at_this_LaRue_mount_repeatability_test_________.html
I think this is true (that LT mounts will return somewhat close to zero). So will every other companies as well (FYI).
The issue is that over time, the lever push in or dent the side of the aluminum cause the mount to not retain or repeat zero (unless you re-adjust the lever and start over).
This is why I prefer mounts that have much greater surface contact area.
C4
3ACR_Scout
09-04-13, 08:44
The first confirmed unit was shipped out to someone last week, so I would expect to see facts concerning this be verified/challenged over the next few months - info on that unit is online.
I shot one recently, but unfortunately, I'm less than a novice when it comes to precision rifles. I was mostly impressed by how short the package was (the nylon roll that the rifle components fit into, before going into the tool box), and how quickly the owner was able to assemble and disassemble it. As mentioned, the main advantage is the short length of the whole package when broken down. I'd estimate that the tool box is about 6"-8" shorter than it would be if you just separated the upper and lower receivers (obviously you could calculate exactly how much shorter based on the barrel and receiver length). I could see advantages in terms of concealability for certain operational requirements too.
This was a 50m indoor range, so we were obviously limited in how we could judge the rifle's performance. We were just getting together with a group for a fun shoot.
Dave
Man, these threads sure can take a turn can't they.
As for the PredatOBR, it looks like a nifty concept, but I'm not sure that its really intended for the precision crowd, at least not in the traditional sense. IMO if you're the kind of guy who is good enough or interested enough to try and squeeze out the last 0.1 MOA out of a rig, then you're better off sticking to a bolt gun instead of a take apart gas gun. On the other hand if you happen to need a gun that can be taken apart and transported in a minimal space, assembled in a short time and capable of DMR type (1-1.5 MOA) accuracy then this is the niche tool for you. Same goes for the LMT. Looks like LT found a way to go around LMT's patents and come up with a rifle capable of rapid, simple and reliable barrel removal. One that doesn't necessarily need a torque wrench. That is not such a bad thing.
The hand tightening of the barrel is definitely simple and positive, but I'm willing to bet that there is a way to put a torque wrench to the nut and insure better repeatability. If you really need that kind of repeat zero.
I like the hand guard, but I wonder how durable it will be in the long run. What happens after some abuse and how much does it flex when you load a bipod over and over and over and over.... Will it fatigue???
With all that, the price and wait are out of my league for sure. I can't imagine paying almost 2X over a 901 and then waiting over a year.
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