View Full Version : How do you guys feel about platform uniformity?
I currently have a working Gen4 19 that I love. I got it because I figured it would work as a all around house or CCW weapon. It would be a one stop shop for me to train with and familiarize with. I believe I should be very proficient with any tool that I would use in a defensive manner. Having the G19 as not only my range gun/house gun and carry gun would probably be best.
I've been considering getting my carry permit. At first I was thinking I would either carry the G19 or get a smaller sub compact.
Well it turns out I really don't like the glock subcompacts in any way. They feel terrible and that transfers over to how I shoot them. I also feel like the G19 would be a little big wouldn't be my best option for how I need to dress.
I've decided that ill end up carrying an M&P shield since using one.
Now here is my dilemma. I notice that I hold the Glock and the shield very differently. They shoot very differently as well. I have the option to trade my Glock for a M&P full size. Same amount of mags and same holsters. I wont be loosing anything.
I hold both M&Ps in a similar way. If I were to train with both it would be overlapping benefits. I do like the Glock a little better than the Full size M&P. I don't know if its because its what I started on or not.
I would use the M&P as my house and range gun/training tool and the Shield as a carry and training tool.
If I were to keep the Glock and train with it and get a Shield and train with that would it disrupt muscle memory and proficiency? I just wouldn't want to grab either in a bad situation and have to make that extra effort to properly implement them in different ways.
While your reasonable assessments are very practical and you're wisely doing you're best to cover all the basics, it seems as though we may be over thinking the scenario. Practice and become comfortable with both your home and carry weapons. No rocket science involved.
Just remember that whatever you carry you want to be well versed in not just shooting it but the draw as well.
Train hard with both pistols and you won't have any problems.
The only issue I ran into over the years was mixing shooting revolvers competitively and carrying a semi-automatic pistol as a service weapon. That issue was corrected by more intensive training.
Pick what you are the most proficient with for both tasks and train with them. Don't overthink the issue.
Good luck and Godspeed!
I currently have a working Gen4 19 that I love. I got it because I figured it would work as a all around house or CCW weapon. It would be a one stop shop for me to train with and familiarize with. I believe I should be very proficient with any tool that I would use in a defensive manner. Having the G19 as not only my range gun/house gun and carry gun would probably be best.
I've been considering getting my carry permit. At first I was thinking I would either carry the G19 or get a smaller sub compact.
Well it turns out I really don't like the glock subcompacts in any way. They feel terrible and that transfers over to how I shoot them. I also feel like the G19 would be a little big wouldn't be my best option for how I need to dress.
I've decided that ill end up carrying an M&P shield since using one.
Now here is my dilemma. I notice that I hold the Glock and the shield very differently. They shoot very differently as well. I have the option to trade my Glock for a M&P full size. Same amount of mags and same holsters. I wont be loosing anything.
I hold both M&Ps in a similar way. If I were to train with both it would be overlapping benefits. I do like the Glock a little better than the Full size M&P. I don't know if its because its what I started on or not.
I would use the M&P as my house and range gun/training tool and the Shield as a carry and training tool.
If I were to keep the Glock and train with it and get a Shield and train with that would it disrupt muscle memory and proficiency? I just wouldn't want to grab either in a bad situation and have to make that extra effort to properly implement them in different ways.
It seems to me that the opportunity to trade the Glock for the M&P and come out even, plus the fact that you feel you grip the two weapons differently, pretty much answers your question.
The same platform makes a lot of sense. Commonality of parts and controls, as well as ergonomics. Especially since you feel comfortable with the Shield as a CCW weapon.
A lot of other folks do successfully carry differing pistol platforms, the question you've got to ask yourself is are you going to lose anything in a gunfight by doing so? A rapid first round HIT will hopefully finish the gun fight, so given the opportunity, I'd just as soon have the same first round press on all my handguns.
So what are you waiting for? :)
So what are you waiting for? :)
That I don't like the M&P full size as much as the Glock. The Glock as a standalone seems more versatile. Maybe its because I'm more familiar with the it.
Honestly I have no desire to ever own a G17 or any other variety.
I'm a new pistol shooter and don't have the background of shooting them all my life like I do with rifles. As I'm building my skill set and habits I just want to make sure I do it right.
That I don't like the M&P full size as much as the Glock. The Glock as a standalone seems more versatile. Maybe its because I'm more familiar with the it.
Honestly I have no desire to ever own a G17 or any other variety.
I'm a new pistol shooter and don't have the background of shooting them all my life like I do with rifles. As I'm building my skill set and habits I just want to make sure I do it right.
Roger that. The manual of arms is close to the same for both pistols. Grip, sight acquistion, trigger manipulation and magazine exchanges are pretty much the same with most semi-automatic pistols. The fact that you are asking questions shows that you are aware of the differences. I would not worry too much about it.
Roger that. The manual of arms is close to the same for both pistols. Grip, sight acquistion, trigger manipulation and magazine exchanges are pretty much the same with most semi-automatic pistols. The fact that you are asking questions shows that you are aware of the differences. I would not worry too much about it.
Exactly. Be aware but not needlessly overwhelmed.
Failure2Stop
09-02-13, 20:41
What are your dress restrictions that make a G19 difficult?
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
What are your dress restrictions that make a G19 difficult?
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Business casual mostly. Pretty form fitting and well pressed. Just mocking it up around the house the G19 prints pretty bad. Not just above the belt but under the slacks as well.
So I'm getting the impression that being that I'm aware of the differences I should be able to train around them? Seems pretty sensible. I guess if I know my weaknesses I can train around them.
So other people's main training weapon is much different from their main carry? I can't see myself wanting to shoot the shield nearly as much as the G19 or M&P.
Business casual mostly. Pretty form fitting and well pressed. Just mocking it up around the house the G19 prints pretty bad. Not just above the belt but under the slacks as well.
So I'm getting the impression that being that I'm aware of the differences I should be able to train around them? Seems pretty sensible. I guess if I know my weaknesses I can train around them.
So other people's main training weapon is much different from their main carry? I can't see myself wanting to shoot the shield nearly as much as the G19 or M&P.
Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire! I would dry fire the Shield until it was worn down to a nub, then buy another one. If you can master the Shield, operating the Glock 19 will be a breeze.
theblackknight
09-02-13, 21:37
Tried shooting a g26 with the +2?
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Failure2Stop
09-02-13, 22:47
Guys that carry in suits strap their gats on for fitting.
I don't know any that carry anything smaller than a G19.
For polo shirt type wear, a good IWB appendix hides very well.
My input; if you're going to carry a gun, carry one that carries enough onboard to solve problems that one carries a gun for.
Otherwise, go with a J-frame.
Guys that carry in suits strap their gats on for fitting.
I don't know any that carry anything smaller than a G19.
For polo shirt type wear, a good IWB appendix hides very well.
My input; if you're going to carry a gun, carry one that carries enough onboard to solve problems that one carries a gun for.
Otherwise, go with a J-frame.
Good points. I like to carry a J Frame in warm weather.......and a knife.
OP - my response was based on this:
"Now here is my dilemma. I notice that I hold the Glock and the shield very differently. They shoot very differently as well. I have the option to trade my Glock for a M&P full size. Same amount of mags and same holsters. I wont be loosing anything.
I hold both M&Ps in a similar way. If I were to train with both it would be overlapping benefits. I do like the Glock a little better than the Full size M&P. I don't know if its because its what I started on or not."
While I don't know exactly what you mean by those statements, I took it to mean you pointed the weapons differently as in natural point of aim.
Taking that thought process a little bit further, you seem to like the shield and that will be your primary carry weapon - why wouldn't you want all your practice to be as close to the same as possible?
I agree that if you shoot and dry fire the Shield and the G19 extensively you will become familiar with both. The question is will you be both equally familiar, and as good as you can possibly be with both weapons?
I get that some folks like to shoot, a lot, with different weapons, I'm that way also. But I don't fool myself into thinking that I am going to shoot as good fast, under pressure, any other pistol then I am with the Glock that I spend the majority of the time shooting.
That is my thought process.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
walkin' trails
09-07-13, 09:59
I use Glock, M&P, and J-frame revolvers and shoot them all proficiently. Like others have posted, you just have to train with them. Then switching back and forth won't be a percieved problem.
I carried a J-Frame for years and recently went back to a semi-auto. At first it was the Shield, then I gave the Glock 19 a try. I haven't touched my shield since.
My main complaint with the Shield were the sharp edges of the rear sight. The 10-8 sight may have solved that issue, but I haven't got around to trying it out.
I have found a glock 19 in a Raven VG2 holster felt just as good as a shield in an INCOG. I also have an INCOG for the glock, but the vg2 feels better.
I recently attended a wedding where the locals were on a manhunt for a shooting suspect. In 100 degree heat, I was able to conceal my glock with my shirt tucked in around it. I had the shirt slightly untucked to cover the rubber belt loop. I'm a big guy, so appendix carry doesn't usually work. I carried more in the 2:00 position. No issues with this setup.
Devildawg2531
09-13-13, 15:02
I am a big fan of a using the same manaual of arm's and having weapon commonaility. Same caliber and mag interchangeability.
WickedWillis
09-13-13, 18:31
I carry a Shield in 9mm in the summer with shorts and t-shirts, OWB, or IWB depending on how I'm retaining water that day. And I carry a G19 EVERY other day of the year.
I think there is something to be said for uniformity. If you don't have the time/$$$/whatever to train on multiple platforms, it makes sense to be proficient and familiar on one platform.
Very few of us are going to be faced with a stress scenario where we have to employ knowledge of various platforms.
I would switch over to M&P's from my glocks if it wasn't for the mag situation. I also shoot glocks decently well. Got rid of the subcompacts, did not shoot the 27 well. I now carry a shield for CCW.
My 2 cents is, carry and shoot what works for you. Learn the differences. good luck
Devildawg2531
09-29-13, 11:06
I'm in the process of selling my M1A Loaded for the purpose of uniformity. For anything serious I would use my 1 of my AR's, Glock's or 870 (although I struggle to see what role the 870 would really play). All of my other guns are just for hunting, shooting and fun. For the OP's purposes I would standardize on either the M&P or Glock platforms.
I believe in uniformity. I only drive Toyotas, only shoot, carry, and compete with Glocks, and only own AR-pattern rifles. It is one thing 'knowing' that your grips will be different, it is quite another to remain effective with different platforms while on the clock, or shooting for your life, or after you hear glass break in your house at 3am from deep sleep, or whatever. Master one platform, and 5 years later maybe add another. Especially as a new shooter and with an option to make a clean trade, you have no reason to try learning multiple weapons at once.
Sticking to a limited set of gun designs has it merits. It's the KISS principle in action.
KISS Principal- Platform uniformity and you greatly reduce potential points of failure! But always have a backup plan for your backup plan.
I can't tell you how many times we have said I could shoot it if I had to...... in reference so some of our different guns... BUT COULD WE REALLY?????
Have you ever flipped on the light switch in a dark room during a power outage with a flash light in your hand? I have, several times, how did it make you feel???? Stupid but funny!
I missed 2 Bucks of a lifetime because I instinctively used the thumb safety on the top of the receiver of a Beretta shotgun, oh SHIT, that's where it is located on the Mossberg I have used for the last 20 years.
How Do You Think That Made Me Feel???? I will feel sick until I die.
Change Bucks to someone trying to kill me and I could, probably would have been dead!
If you shoot the Shield the best, I see no reason why that can't be your home defense gun as well. Sure it holds less rounds, but if that's what you get your hits with, it's a no brainer to me.
Guys that carry in suits strap their gats on for fitting.
I don't know any that carry anything smaller than a G19.
For polo shirt type wear, a good IWB appendix hides very well.
My input; if you're going to carry a gun, carry one that carries enough onboard to solve problems that one carries a gun for.
Otherwise, go with a J-frame.
If you wear dress pants and button ups that fit nicely a 19 can print(no suite). I have this problem with my full sized mp. It hides ok, but prints enough someone could see it if looking for it.
Obviously a shield is a compromise gun but offer s lot over a jframe imo. Of course I'm no expert, just curious about your view on this.
FlyingHunter
12-22-13, 16:46
I am a big fan of a using the same manaual of arm's and having weapon commonaility. Same caliber and mag interchangeability.
I agree with Devildawg and would add the commonality of magazines is important. Let's suppose you have someone to support your defensive situation at home, trained wife, older trained children etc...Sharing mags that work in either gun is a plus. I would train with both and select the one that fits you best and that you shoot most proficiently.
The biggest problem I have is when I shoot an HK or Walther pistol with the paddle mag release and then switch back to a standard thumb-release on a Glock. Something about the motion of using my trigger finger to drop the mag sticks in my head and takes a while to revert back. I'd never buy a PPS or something similar and carry it alternately with my Glock.
Both are nice pistols and I see where youre going with uniformity but consider this.
The M&P line is not functionally different from the Glock in how you actually shoot the gun. Yes, there are some minor ergonomic differences but it's still a striker fired gun being shot with a thumbs forward high crush grip and all the controls are in the same places. Moving to something as small as a Shield can be difficult because there's not much gun to hold on to; but from a concealment perspective it's more convenient.
Pick which gun you like shooting more, the gun that gives you more utility, and the gun you're better with, then train with it.
I got an M&P Shield in 9mm ostensibly for my wife - I carry that thing every day because it is a zero-concerns about printing setup when IWB-Appendix carried. I have all the issues of it not being much gun (small grip hurts accuracy, the safety sucks but it's there, recoil management with the 7rd magazine is still pretty much crap, and riding the slide release is still a definite possibility), and I still need to put some decent night sights on it, but it's my quintessential 'better than no firearm' solution.
Curiously, now that I've started carrying that thing a lot, the more I want to have a G19 with a grip reduction job as an intermediate pistol solution.
The biggest problem I have is when I shoot an HK or Walther pistol with the paddle mag release and then switch back to a standard thumb-release on a Glock. Something about the motion of using my trigger finger to drop the mag sticks in my head and takes a while to revert back. I'd never buy a PPS or something similar and carry it alternately with my Glock.
Yep, that just happened to me yesterday after playing around with a buddy's HK45CT. What's screwed up is I had only played with changing the mags around ten times prior to having that happen with my G17.
Now when I can switch over mentally with different triggers, that will be the ticket.
I carry a M&P CORE with X300 as my daily carry gun. I used to carry a 1911 with X300.
You can definitely refine your dress to accommodate a gun - I for one refuse to dress in a manner that won't allow me to carry what I feel is enough gun.
Business Casual is easily overcome by a decent IWB holster - while I dont AIWB carry I know folks who carry 1911's and Glock 17's that way with no issues.
I carry/compete/duty carry the same gun - I have a Shield as a BUG, unless it was a covert carry role I would not run it stand alone as I 1) want at least 10+ rounds 2) won't carry a primary handgun without a WML - as generally bad stuff where I would need my handgun happens at night/low light.
I sold my J frame to stay with the M&P style gun --> the Shield.
I feel that uniformity and capatibility is important, but I switch back back and forth between an M&P45 and a Glock 17 regularly enough. My duty pistol is an M&P45, and I carry it off-duty at least half of the time. When I'm not, I'm carrying my G17 the other half. When I train hard with one platform for a while then switch back, I notice the different grip angle during presentation. I aclimate myself through drawing and dry firing prior to walking out the door. Some would not find this switching back and forth to be optimal. I can agree, but it works for me.
I've carried a G30 for a long time. but just bought an M&P in .45 and added a Apex trigger and Warren sights. The Smith fits my hand better and with the new trigger it might just take the Glocks job.
Though I'd guess the OP has decided his position since more than a month ago, this is still an interesting topic to me. The replies in 'uniformity' threads are usually indicators of a board's culture. Software/training culture tends to support uniformity, hardware culture tends to generate 10 pages of "I carry a Glock 20 on Monday, a S&W 642 on Tuesday, a Shield when I have indigestion, a Sig P238 when I eat Chinese food, and a Desert Eagle when I go to Walmart!"
My carry weapon is a Glock 19 Gen 4. My practice weapon is another Glock 19 Gen 4. My other practice weapon is a Glock 23 Gen 4. Having fired just about every popular service pistol and many compacts and subs, I don't get excited about shooting new pistols. I get excited by improvement. I don't feel a need to 'shake things up' by carrying anything else anymore than I feel a desire to 'shake things up' by trying out a new lady. I'm happy to do my best to wear out what I have.
KD touched on this topic in the latest ballistic radio interview. Around the 18 minute mark.
http://ballisticradio.com/
Q: relating to dudes with multiple guns and holster options/orientations.
"Absolutely no-go ... it's like I tell guys with AR-15s or M4s, the problem now is that there is too many options. ... It's the same with gear, you know it's like every other week there's a new crew making an appendix carry holster ... that holster isn't going to make you any faster, within reason, we all know the quality companies. Don't have a leather holster and don't have any craziness inside, kydex or plastic, nice and fast, tucks in good. That's it. Pick one holster, pick one gun and go train your ass off. That's what you need to do. Period."
"Simplicity man. The simpler things are, the richer the experience."
I don't care for my G19 in general. I find my M&P to be a better gun, but vastly prefer my PPQ. It's every bit as carryable as either of the other two. My preference over the last 6 months, however, has been a Walther PPS. That's much easier to carry, even in lighter weight clothing. I don't think platform uniformity is very important, but I do think practice is.
I definitely believe in uniformity. After moving around a couple of different platforms, I decided I have the most consistent performance with the M&P. I carry a 45 mid-size, and compete with a 9L. The only thing that changes is a bit of recoil control.
I am a huge proponent of stiking to one platform for handgun. I ran into lots of trouble when I would switch between Glock and 1911 platforms. I decided on one and went with that exclusively (1911).
I say go with the G19. In fact, get two of them. That way, if you ever have one go down, or (God forbid) you have to use one in self-defense, you will have another identical gun ready to go.
The Glock 19 is one of the best weapons ever developed. A near perfect balance of power, speed and accuracy. And this is from a dedicated 1911 shooter.
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