View Full Version : practical civilian use of a DBAL/PEQ laser device
black22rifle
09-03-13, 09:29
I have seen many ARs setup with an Aimpoint T-1 along with a DBAL/PEQ device right behind the front sight and I happen to find this very intriguing. I don't know if the set ups i have seen were LEOs, however i do know that some of those devices are not sold to civilians. Is there any practical use for one as a civilian? Is it worth the Price? I have seen prices ranging from $800-$2k for one of these devices. I will be getting an Aimpoint micro in the near future and i am thinking about spending the extra $50 and getting the T-1 instead of the H-1, which coupled with one of these devices which has an IR spotlight will allow you to identify in dark. Obviously if i were to obtain one of these devices it will be even farther down the road, but it helps to plan ahead.
evoutfitters
09-03-13, 10:19
Don't forget you'll also need a night vision device of some sort (e.g. PVS-14) to see both the T-1 red dot on one of the night-vision settings and the IR laser/flood on a PEQ/DBAL. That's another $2-3k for a Gen 3 night vision device.
black22rifle
09-03-13, 10:22
I though you could see the dot and flood through the t-1, no?
thopkins22
09-03-13, 10:27
I though you could see the dot and flood through the t-1, no?
If there's a PVS-14 mounted behind it, then you can turn the T1 down low enough that its dot is visible in the PVS-14 without blooming out the rest of the scene. The T-1 has no night vision capability...it just has super dim settings that aren't visible without looking through night vision.
It's not a very good way to run NV in almost any circumstance...an IR laser and head mounted PVS-14 is way superior.
If there's IR spectrum light, you need night vision to see it. NV ready Aimpoints simply play a little better with those devices, but they don't actually provide any night vision.
evoutfitters
09-03-13, 10:27
N/M, answered above!
I though you could see the dot and flood through the t-1, no?
No. You need a NVG of some sort to even see the dot in the Aimpoint while it is on a Night Vision setting.
The cool thing about IR lasers, and lights, is that you cannot see them unless you are using "NODs"
I though you could see the dot and flood through the t-1, no?
No.
As thopkins stated, the T-1 being "NVG compatible" means that the T-1's dot has reticle intensity settings that allow it to be used in conjunction with an I-square device...
...not that the T-1 is an I-square device. It's not.
Practical civi use for NV devices? Not much in my book, outside of security work (private/corporate).
Reasoning being the extra training needed to be proficient with all gear associated (depth perception while moving, driving, aiming, adjustments, etc.). Also, for all parts involved, you're looking at $5000 +, which in my opinion is better spent on training, ammo, and other less 'needy' gear.
Costs money to look cool.
steyrman13
09-05-13, 12:54
Practical civi use for NV devices? Not much in my book, outside of security work (private/corporate).
Reasoning being the extra training needed to be proficient with all gear associated (depth perception while moving, driving, aiming, adjustments, etc.). Also, for all parts involved, you're looking at $5000 +, which in my opinion is better spent on training, ammo, and other less 'needy' gear.
Costs money to look cool.
No? What about hunting at night for Varmints, Predators, Hogs?
For that you don't need a PEQ, PVS14 or 7B, but if one feels strongly enough about spending the dime on night scopes or/as well as all the other gadgets to kill pests then its a free country dude (go to TNVC to spend though ;) - support the sponsors!)
Even if you do have the pocket change for NV devices and spent the time and money for the training to play SOF man in the backyard, you have to remember to do so frequently because, like all training, it is a perishable skill set.
militarymoron
09-10-13, 21:26
you're going to have to define what you mean by 'practical civilian use'. an IR laser/NVGs performs the same function as your T-1: it provides you something to aim your rifle with, only you can do it at night without visible illumination.
if you have fun shooting steel all day long with your red dot sight, you can continue the shooting session into darkness with a laser/NVG setup. for me, 'fun' is a practical enough reason if i can afford it.
civilian-legal IR aimers are available on the market.
black22rifle
09-10-13, 21:36
I was under the impression that i would be would be able to see the ir laser through the t-1, now that i know that is not the case it is out of the question for me.
If you cannot see infrared with your eyes why are crimson trace lasers and other firearm aiming lasers referred to as infrared?
militarymoron
09-10-13, 22:09
as explained above, you need a night vision device to see an IR (infra-red) laser, which is invisible to the naked eye.
the T-1 is not a night vision device. it's a night vision compatible device, which means that it has dot settings that are so low that they won't 'bloom' a night vision device.
you can use a T-1 with a night vision device mounted behind it on the rifle, without a laser aimer, and use the T-1's dot to aim, just like you would in daylight. but there are other issues associated with this setup.
If you cannot see infrared with your eyes why are crimson trace lasers and other firearm aiming lasers referred to as infrared?
Because they are variants available in IR wavelengths.
Look at the specs for different variants. Human visual range is about 400 to 700 nanometers.
For example, the AN/PEQ-15 has both VIS and IR aim lasers. The VIS is 630nm (+/-30nm), which falls within human visual spectrum. IR is 830nm (+/- 15nm). Two different emitters. Actually, three emitters, but the third is for the IR illuminator....
The user can see the first, unaided. IR requires an image-intensification device, NVGs being the most common, though there are both dedicated weapon-mounted I-square devices and clip-on devices that supplement a primary day optic.
So, if you see a laser device that lists the wavelength (i.e., the color) of the laser as being above 700nm, it's in the human infrared range. Also, if you can SEE an "IR" laser....that thing is ganked up.
^^ what he said
unless you sleep with your nods on or go boar hunting/varmint hunting at night, its not really that practical for civilian use.
That being said, will I get one someday? D@mn straight haha
You absolutely need a NOD to be able to see the IR laser. Just because you are buying the T-1 does not mean it is a night optic or that you could see the IR laser through the T-1. It only means the brightness will go to a low enough setting to be properly visible with the night optic. The H-1 is not capable.
The IR laser is only visible with a NOD, it is not a VISIBLE laser like the laserguards. Different wavelengths
Is there any practical use for one as a civilian?
Hunting, Target Shooting, etc.
Hunting, Target Shooting, etc.
Perfect answer to your question OP.
To answer another, for some it is worth the $1800 for an ATPIAL or ITPIAL ($1200 new). I'll use the 15 as a good example. It's light, allows for night time aiming, visible day time aiming/threat deescalation, and illumination. It also has the ability to switch beam intensity (mW) for different situations.
All in all the PEQ-15 and 15A are fantastic units. Great features. You can't own the night better. It's a silly regulation and idea that you cannot be trusted with a laser beam. We are adults. Lasers are pointed down the muzzle. Why would this be pointed at your face? I mock the idea. If you REALLY want one find one or order one on Euro Optics.
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