View Full Version : Some advice on teaching a child to shoot, please
Doc Safari
09-03-13, 17:40
My girlfriend bought her 9-year old daughter a pink camo S&W M&P 15-22 over the weekend so the daughter can train to shoot mama's full size AR over time.
I'm wondering what the best course of action is to teach the daughter to shoot.
The M & P's front and rear sights are removable, and the mom wants to get the kid a red dot.
Is it better to teach the kid to shoot irons first because they're harder to learn and if she doesn't learn them first she never will?
Or is it better to get her an RDS since they tend to be very user-friendly so that she's immediately encouraged by a quicker ability to shoot?
What RDS is "good enough" to hold zero for a kid's twenty-two, yet doesn't require you to spend $600 on an Aimpoint? In other words, which RDS will help the kid shoot because it's good enough to stay sighted in, yet won't cause a family crisis if the kid breaks it?
Any other suggestions are welcome too.
Grand58742
09-03-13, 17:53
Personally, to get her into shooting I'd go with the RDS myself. Let irons come along later when you can keep the attention focused more. Make it fun and easy to get into.
For a RDS that won't break the bank? Check into Primary Weapons. They have reasonably inexpensive Aimpoint T1 clones (https://www.primaryarms.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MD-06L) that probably would be okay on a .22. Or Palmetto State (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/vortex-sparc-red-dot-optic.html) has the Vortex Sparc discounted down to $150 right now.
FlyingHunter
09-03-13, 17:55
From my perspective as an NRA instructor and dad:
Forget the technical aspects and focus on just a few things as you compete on an age where electronic devices rule the day.
1. It must be fun e.g. blasting full/shaken soda cans
2. Keep it brief and always finish on a high note of praise
3. Get her friends of a similar age to join in the fun
Other: I vote for red dot 1st as it assimilates their electronic gadgets. You'll never build a marksman if they lose interest in shooting. Get a cheap one.
My girlfriend bought her 9-year old daughter a pink camo S&W M&P 15-22 over the weekend so the daughter can train to shoot mama's full size AR over time.
Did you sell her yours?
J/K :D
What RDS is "good enough" to hold zero for a kid's twenty-two, yet doesn't require you to spend $600 on an Aimpoint? In other words, which RDS will help the kid shoot because it's good enough to stay sighted in, yet won't cause a family crisis if the kid breaks it?
Any other suggestions are welcome too.
Personally, I'd teach her irons first then get her an RDS. I think the rimfire EOTech XPS would be my choice for a 22.
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The main things I'd offer is just because kids can quote gun safety rules doesn't mean they fully understand them in context.
For example "always point gun in a safe direction" used to confuse me as a kid. I knew it meant don't point it at people, but I was always unclear where to point it "sometimes up is good sometimes not" and it wasn't until somebody said "point it in the direction you'd be most willing to fire it at the given time" and THEN the lights went on.
Suddenly I understood why they were up sometimes and down sometimes.
Also "be sure of your target and what is beyond." I was about 8 when I was out hunting and me and another "slowing us down" kid got left behind. We saw some squirrels on a tree so we decided to surprise everyone by bagging a squirrel. Now we KNEW not to have the house in the background so we had corn fields in the background when we targeted those squirrels.
Well guess who was in those corn fields? We thought everyone was in the fields behind us because that is where they started. Thankfully nobody was hurt but it took that to get me to fully appreciate the "what is beyond" the target rule and just because you don't see anyone doesn't mean they can't be there.
Other than that, just keep close and ready to take over if she starts to make a mistake like turning around with the rifle and make it about fun.
My girlfriend bought her 9-year old daughter a pink camo S&W M&P 15-22 over the weekend so the daughter can train to shoot mama's full size AR over time.
You should make this wife ASAP. sounds like a keeper!
Just a couple thoughts... Make it fun! I'd go with a red dot, simple and fun! Shaken up shaving cream cans make big, fun, messy explosions! Splurge and get a watermelon, they make a good example of what guns do for kiddos... Have fun, focus on safety fundamentals and most importantly have fun!
Seriously, the impression you make on that little girl will literally last a life time.
.46caliber
09-03-13, 19:38
Flying Hunter has some great insight.
Another vote for primary arms. It will look like your grown up red dot, handle anything she'll do with her .22 and it won't be anything to sweat if it breaks.
Then you can give me range report on the whole process so I can prep for my 3 year old daughter's introduction.
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Another RDS suggestion: the Bushnell TRS-25 (http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/ar-optics/trs-25-hirise) From everything I've read and heard, they are surprisingly well built.
I started my son on airsoft in the backyard to learn the basics & learn proper shooting etiquette. He's 6YO now & can cut a soda can in half with his little M4 airsoft rifle without much effort. We started with iron sights & we played little games to keep him focused like $.25 for every hit and took away $.25 for every miss until he had it down. I just got him a Primary Arms micro Aimpoint type RDS for about $100. He shoots just as well but he's a little faster & of course it's more fun. Good times & I can't wait to take him to the real range to shoot his .22LR.
RDS. Keep it fun and simple. Concentrate on the rules of safe handling and shooting. Leave the irons for later.
thopkins22
09-03-13, 22:44
RDS. Keep it fun and simple. Concentrate on the rules of safe handling and shooting. Leave the irons for later.
Exactly. While not an exact analogue, I equate it to giving your daughter an automatic transmission to drive instead of a manual. Should she learn how to drive a manual? Yes. Should she be bombarded with extra information when she's learning to be competent and safe while still having a good time? Absolutely not. Keep it simple, safe and fun.
Besides, the basic fundamentals still apply 100%. She needs a good natural point of aim, she needs to build a good shooting position, she needs to learn trigger control, sight alignment, and so forth. Why make the sight alignment any harder? Especially with a female who may not be quite as into it as boys of the same age?
I was shooting at age 5. I learned with a three power scope, and eventually with notch and post iron sights. I didn't learn aperture sights until I was 18...getting her interested and safe is where the focus should be.
Be sure to get her a good set of electronic muffs so she can hear your instructions precisely. BIG advantage to be had so might as well take advantage of it to maximize safety through clear communication.
MountainRaven
09-03-13, 23:28
I'll ditto the calls for a red dot.
Although I don't think irons would suck too much. I would have (and did) loved to have shot any gun as a kid, scoped or not.
And, yeah, keep it fun. Praise them.
But I'd always start with a safety brief. Don't want to scare them, so nothing like Clint Smith's stories about people shooting themselves or others because they ignored one or more of the four rules.
Smuckatelli
09-04-13, 17:00
I used irons with all three of my kids. The oldest was 15, the youngest was 6 when they started.
If you are looking at instilling marksmanship principles, sight alignment/sight picture/BRASS.......my opinion start her on irons.
I used irons with all three of my kids. The oldest was 15, the youngest was 6 when they started.
If you are looking at instilling marksmanship principles, sight alignment/sight picture/BRASS.......my opinion start her on irons.
Exactly. Basics first. Crawl, walk run. Everyone should learn with irons before moving to anything else. No short cuts.
Exactly. Basics first. Crawl, walk run. Everyone should learn with irons before moving to anything else. No short cuts.
I understand, and to a great extent agree, but some kids are too young for basic fundamentals of marksmanship.
I was shooting a lot of guns somewhat poorly before my father sat me down with a Remington 513T Matchmaster and a whole bunch of .22 ammo.
Before that I really was mostly using the force. There might have been several rounds "in the black" but they were all over the place.
That Remington is the rifle that finally taught me how to shoot.
Doc Safari
09-04-13, 17:35
I think we'll end up going straight to an RDS. Although I'm "old school" and learned the irons first, both my girlfriend and her daughter want to go straight to the RDS.
Smuckatelli
09-04-13, 17:42
I understand, and to a great extent agree, but some kids are too young for basic fundamentals of marksmanship.
That's what I like about the iron sights with the youngsters. Sight alignment is one awesome lesson within itself. No need to teach them everything at once but gradually work up to it.
IOM, with the RDS or any other scope, if they miss.....there is a blow to their ego that could be hard to recover from. Many people and most kids think that once they have a scope on...they become Carlos Hathcock. A quick way to take the fun out of shooting is if they miss the target with a scope.
Just an opinion, no scientific data goes with that. Keep in mind I wouldn't let the oldest touch an automatic until she mastered a manual.
Keep the sessions short and stress free. If the coach, student, or observer is ill or in a bad mood, then cancel the session. Have the shooter stand behind a table and direct her to set the rifle down on it and back away in case of confusion, malfunction, or when the rifle has expended the rounds loaded in the mag. Load no more than 5 rds at a time and have her count the rds as she shoots. Use an ax handle, yard stick, or something similar to demonstrate unsafe handling practices like turning around and pointing the gun at others. If the child is afraid or anxious, then don't insist that she continue. Avoid shooter fatigue. Start with short distance and a large target. Have fun.
Smuckatelli
09-04-13, 22:15
No matter which route you go; iron or RDS......
The last magazine let her shoot at the target stands. I use pvc pipe.....the kids really like shooting it. :dance3:
Fun targets: Shaken sodas, green army men, inflated ballons, etc.
Not fun targets: Paper
Grand58742
09-05-13, 14:44
Fun targets: Shaken sodas, green army men, inflated ballons, etc.
Not fun targets: Paper
This, but with a paper background so you can adjust the sights without her knowing you're using it to adjust the sights the first time out. A bunch of misses might make her lose interest. But with a paper background you can see the impacts and let "Mister Doc" fix it.
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