View Full Version : Help my spend 3k+ Larue OBR or Larue PredatOBR? 7.62 battle Rifle
domestique
09-03-13, 21:36
Ok, I am looking for a 1 MOA 7.62 battle rifle that takes 20LR Pmags... With the lightest weight and sub 3.5k.
I already have an 18" M14 (LRB arms m25 in a sage EBR MOD 1 stock). That gun is a laser for a semi 7.62 gun with my average group around 0.7" at 100 yards ( 168 gr. Federal GMM). The problem is that gun is a PIG. Close to 12 pounds without a scope.
I would like to but a 7.62 battle rifle that is close to 1 MOA and under 10 pounds without a scope (closer to 9). The other Caveat is it has to take standard mags (Pmags).
My choices were:
SCAR Heavy: no, can not use standard magazines.
Colt LE901: like the concept but who knows when they are going to make more
Larue OBR: TOO heavy?
Larue PredatOBR: my ideal choice but not a fan of the barrel quick disconnect "suit case Gun"
KAC: not spending 5k+
S&W: availability? No one knows
LMT:?
I REALLY want a Larue. Love all their products and am running out of their free pork rub they always send me.
My only hesitation with the OBR is the weight. I already have a track driving PIG in my EBR. The PredatOBR was my next choice be was unsure with the quick disconnect and overall reliability. Also a year wait doesn't bother me.
Any user reviews or suggestions?
Edit: needs to work with a suppressor.
I just went through this same dilemma. Check out the beyond 5.56 forum and search. The end result was to choose the LMT. Extremely high quality, battle tested, and very accurate.
Lots of good reading and info.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=132875&highlight=lmt+mws
domestique
09-04-13, 14:04
Thanks for the link.
Have you gotten the LMT or have any idea in their lead time?
Larue just unofficially quoted me 1.5 years (they are just starting on March 2012 orders).
I got the LMT. Look on Gunbroker or other sites. They are out there.
Since the SCAR 17 won't work cuz you want PMAGs, I'd say LMT.
It came down to the MWS and the SCAR 17 for me, and not having another platform in 308, the mags weren't a big deal for me, so I went with the 17. I haven't wrung it out for uber accuracy, but its shown capable of 1 MOA with the right ammo.
You say that you discount the SCAR 17 since it won't accept standard magazines...have you thought about a SCAR 17 along with a lower from either Cavalry Manufacturing or Handl Defense? Since the upper is the serialized part, not the lower, that can be shipped to you with no issues.
I ask because a good friend has a 17 that is set up with the Handl lower, and the Giesselle Super SCAR trigger. It is honestly pretty amazing, and I find myself wanting one badly.
The issue you may have to worry on with LaRue is availability...they are somewhat hard to lay hands on, and I know there has been a wait time issue as of late with them bringing barrel production in house.
If I was not able to get a SCAR 17 and the replacement lower, I would take a long and hard look at the LMT. That being said, for my cash, the SCAR is how I would go (and likely will)
In Stock:
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3594
I am currently 6weeks into a 12-16 week wait for a JP LRP 07, depending on configuration you can get under 3.5k.
domestique
09-05-13, 21:14
Thanks for all the replies. The LMT is VERY tempting, but not thrilled on its weight.
I think at this point based on my needs (16" Battle rifle, 1 MOA accuracy, less than 9.5 pounds unloaded, takes standardized magazines SR25/PMAGs)
1. KAC SR25 ECC
2. Colt LE901 (accuracy reports have been great, would love to SBR it and run all my AR uppers... not to mention the cheapest)
3. SCAR 17 (Handl lower which will take Pmags
4. Larue PredatOBR (not a fan of the "suitcase" quick release)
Currently I'm on a wait list for a Colt LE901, Larue PedatOBR and a SCAR 17. I would take any one of these three and whichever one comes in will be the one I will most likely buy. I REALLY want the KAC (have some SR15 lowers and love them) but will have to save some more to swing it.
Wait till the 308 Tavor is put on the market.
Is LaRue not making the PredatAR anymore? Mine in 7.62 is about a 1 MOA rifle, in my hands anyway. The skinny barrel does heat up after 11-15ish rounds but groups never get bigger than about 1.3" (if they were 1" when cold).
The LaRue is a great gun. I have a lot of trigger time behind an obr and I currently have the predatOBR on order. About 3 days ago I got an email from LaRue. It looks like the predatOBR orders are still at least a year out if you order today. Just kind of a heads up if you decide to go that route.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
bleaman225
09-06-13, 06:25
I will place a vote for the MWS. There's alot of information out there on them already so I'm not going to ramble on about the accuracy of these guns. I will just say that my personal MWS with either the 16" chrome lined barrel or the 16" stainless barrel will shoot 8-9 shots all within or slightly under 1"/100yds. The other few from the 10 shot groups are always called fliers caused by me, not the rifle. I'm positive of that haha.
So the actual reason I'm posting here is to talk about my 16" CL barrel. I also was also a bit unenthusiastic about the weight of the MWS. So I did what any savvy gun owner would do and sent my CL barrel to Adco and had him take a good amount of metal off. I think it saved nearly half a pound, something more to the tune of 6.5 oz but you get my point. So now I have a very nice, easier to manage "battle rifle"with the one barrel and the option to switch over to a heavier barrel if I decide I want too. Which is rare because the CL 16 did not lose any apparent accuracy and it weighs less so why bother? Just an option to keep in mind...
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu29/benleaman/Permanent/IMG_3437_zps90eb5433.jpg
I've shot three of the rifles in your bunch: SCAR, LMT and LaRue.
I own a LMT MWS w/ 16" CL barrel. It's a bit of a pig, and you can feel the weight when you carry it around. The difference is that you can easily switch calibers (if you get the other barrels) and you can really tune it in. The good part about the weight is that it's recoil isn't that bad because there's some weight in the rifle to soak up a bit of the recoil. I'm not a big guy, so recoil matters to me: I'm a sissy about recoil.
I also own a LaRue PredatAR 16" 7.62. Mine averages 1/2"@100m. The best group that I've gotten was .3" the worst I've gotten was .8", and that was what it opened up to, after about 30 rounds. When you feel the weight and balance of it, it's hard to believe that it's a full caliber gun.... Then I pull the trigger. I have a standard birdcage on it currently, and I kinda get pushed around a bit. I'm not a big guy, so recoil matters to me. Again, I'm a sissy about recoil.
I did not enjoy the SCAR as much as the other two. Environment might have had something to do with it. The accuracy was fine, the trigger was 'OK', but the weight was a concern. Again, it had to do with the totality of the environment.
For civilian use (plinking, hunting, hogging, whatever/etc.), I'd pick either the LaRue or the MWS. If you want it now, MWS is the option I'd pick.
Lastly, my sample size is exactly three, and I don't have experience with other manufacturers.
Just curious about the need to take PMAGs? SCAR 17 mags are easier to find right now. Understand if you have other 7.62 rifles that take PMAG 20LRs, but if not I don't really get it.
I placed an order for an OBR a few months ago, so you know which way my vote will go. I was not looking for a battle riffle per se, but wanted a more accurate 7.62 gas gun so I ordered the 18" barrel version.
They told me "over a year" for the wait, but it does not bother me, since it gives me the time to save up the $3500+ for it. In the mean time, my name is on the list.
Don't forget that Armalite's AR-10A takes the original AR-10/KAC/7.62 PMAG as well (base price $1571 MSRP, weight 7.9 pounds).
http://www.armalite.com/Images/large%20images/Rifles/A10A4CBF.jpg
The standard barrel is a 1.5 MOA rifle while the 10T barrel gives match performance.
The standard barrel version below weighs just under 11 pounds with a Leupold TS-30 in a Larue mount, Larue float rail, and an LMT SOPMOD stock. The Match barrel weighs 9 ounces more.
http://i47.tinypic.com/15gwgp3.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/w053cx.jpg
The AR-10A upper also fits the OBR:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9661/308ar004.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5941/ar10upperonlaruelower00.jpg
The OBR upper fits the KAC and LMT lower:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Krazny13/SR25/IMAG0158.jpg
There is still no 7.62 AR standard (besides maybe the 7.62 PMAG).
Another vote here for the LaRue PredatAR 762. Love mine! Haven't shot for groups as I still don't have glass for it. With the irons several of us were able to hit steel at 50 and 100 without trouble and get fast follow up shots. It's light but still handles the .308 quite well IMO.
Haven't got a can for it (yet). But the reviews I've read from owners who do say the concern over the thinner profile bbl are not there.
Besides, the PredatAR is much less money than the tOBR - leaving you more money for glass, ammo, training, etc.
TurretGunner
09-08-13, 20:37
KAC > GAP10 > OBR > LMT
domestique
09-08-13, 21:55
Just curious about the need to take PMAGs? SCAR 17 mags are easier to find right now. Understand if you have other 7.62 rifles that take PMAG 20LRs, but if not I don't really get it.
It really comes down to picking a system with the MOST amount of different magazines out there that would work for it. I'm a magazine whore and buy more than enough magazines for my guns and like the idea of having cheap, and a lot of different options for magazines... But, with a Handl lower you can make a SCAR run SR25/Pmags.
Thanks again for the advice guys. I really wish there were more firsthand reviews on the Colt and PredatOBR and the quick change barrel. The ADCO barrel reduction on the MWS does make it a lot more appealing.
At this point I am really in love with the KAC ECC (already have some SR15 lowers that have been bomb proof... just not thrilled with the SR25 price tag) but would buy the Colt/SCAR if I found one in stock for the right price.
Thanks for the link.
Have you gotten the LMT or have any idea in their lead time?
Larue just unofficially quoted me 1.5 years (they are just starting on March 2012 orders).
LOL WUT. Not to pass judgement, but you'd think they could hire 10 of the 500 people who would kill to work for them and step up their game. Shit's not rocket science...
domestique
09-09-13, 03:32
LOL WUT. Not to pass judgement, but you'd think they could hire 10 of the 500 people who would kill to work for them and step up their game. Shit's not rocket science...
I dare you to tell that to Mr. Larue ;)
KAC builds awesome gear. Problem is, it costs a ton. Is it worth it? Very likely so.
That being said, I'm still biased to the SCAR platform. With the upgraded trigger and lower, you can do just about anything. Carbine class? Slap a T1 on there. Precision class? Drop a magnified optic on.
The SCAR does God's work at stupidly long ranges with the stock barrel setup.
LaRue makes great kit too. Problem is, they are running seriously long wait times. You could buy a SCAR17 tomorrow and order a PredatAR/OBR. By the time your order from LaRue came in, you'd have been able to save up the cash to pay for it.
I have no experience with the LMT MWS setup.
Honestly, you won't be going wrong if you can get your hands on ANY of the above setups. The only thing that may alter that equation is if Centurion ever releases their .308 barrels and uppers. Monty knows his shit.
In the end, buy whatever hits your hands first, and be a very happy guy.
wilson1911
09-09-13, 19:21
I would pass on anything from Larue. almost 1 year waiting on the OBR with several fails from them in this time. I'm not going to say anything, but I would never buy from him again. OH !!! did I mention he still has my money and I have NO gun !!!!
A 1903 Springfield would be really fun to shoot [thinking out of the box]
I dare you to tell that to Mr. Larue ;)
Haha! Mark would explode :)
$3K.... I'd love to have an FN FAL .308 with that money!
Doc. Holiday
09-10-13, 16:42
$3K.... I'd love to have an FN FAL .308 with that money!
Yea, but an FAL will have a tough time being consistant with his 1moa needs.
I had the opportunity to purchase a KAC SR25 ECC today.
Just couldn't pull the trigger although I wish I had just done it.
Want one bad.
Devildawg2531
09-10-13, 19:17
Have you considered the GAP10? Sub MOA and uses Pmag's.
I would love to have a precision 7.62 but can't see waiting the 1 1/2 years for the OBR. I am in the prcocess of selling my M1A Loaded and after it sell's will be adding either GAP10, ScarH (is this really an MOA gun?), LMT MWS or OBR (if the wait times become semi reasonable).
Yea, but an FAL will have a tough time being consistant with his 1moa needs.
True, true.
Well first let me say, I am not an expert in 7.62X51 battle rifles!
But at least a year ago, I was deep into the reason the Brits (I was born there) went to the LMT for the boys in country, Afghanistan.
And one of the parts I remembered, how well they shot with standard machine gun ammunition, and they had lots of that.
When they said 800m was doable on man sized targets? Awesome.
Well just my two cents worth, some of the replies you have received all ready, very knowledgeable individuals.
Good luck on your quest.
Haha! Mark would explode :)
He'd make more money though :p
Falsecrack
09-11-13, 03:58
I own an OBR 7.62, a Scar17 (w/Superscar trigger), and an SR 25 ECC. Although they're all set up differently (OBR/USO 3.2-17, Scar/Elcan 1.5-6, ECC/Aimpoint T1), I really dig them all. They all serve different purposes, so it's hard to do a good head to head comparison with them. But, with the exception of the Pmags for the Scar, I believe they all fall within your criteria, and am fairly confident that you'd be happy with any of them. Sorry if this doesn't help you any.
domestique
09-18-13, 02:43
Thanks for all the advice guys. Just sold my LRB arms M25 in a Sage EBR Mod 1 today.
I ended up getting in touch with a KAC dealer that had someone back out of an ECC purchase. So I was able to slip into his spot from when it was ordered months ago.
Hopefully it will be a good Christmas! Now if only Magpul would start delivering their Gen 3 7.62 magazines!
domestique
09-20-13, 03:46
Update!
Found an ECC in stock! Placed my order, and will hopefully have it by next Wednesday.
Will of course post pictures.
Same one from the post above or you found another one?
Congrats.
I'm going to have one someday. Just trying not to buy one right away!
domestique
09-20-13, 06:43
Same one from the post above or you found another one?
Congrats.
I'm going to have one someday. Just trying not to buy one right away!
Different. One popped up on SCG USA.
If anyone wants to get on the short list with a dealer pm me. I can give you the name of the guy I did have an order with.
Doc. Holiday
09-20-13, 09:48
Congrats man! That's a real nice rifle. I seriously doubt you will have any regrets.
domestique
09-20-13, 09:59
Congrats man! That's a real nice rifle. I seriously doubt you will have any regrets.
Just my bank account. "buy once cry once", "buy once cry once"......
Doc. Holiday
09-20-13, 10:12
Ha true, but once it's in your hands....I promise those will be tears of joy!
domestique
09-20-13, 18:50
In case someone stumbles upon this thread while looking for an ECC
Boltcarrier.com was where I had an order placed. I contacted him last week and he made it seem that there was an unaccounted for ECC that he ordered a couple months ago.
If anyone is looking to place an order and does not want to wait until shot show (when KAC will most likely open up commercial orders again). Give them a ring.
TurretGunner
09-20-13, 19:32
Its taken me a while to finnaly come around, but here I am.
When it comes to .308 gas guns, there is the SCAR and everything else. Based around the .308, you cannot beat it. It is lighter, very light recoil, ACCURATE ergonomic and proven.
Accuracy may be subjective but with good ammo they are shooting around .75MOA. That is MORE than enough for most shooters. Not many people are shooting .308 gassers anyway. Most have moved onto .260/6.5CM if they are shooting for scores or ELR.
The SR25 is nice, but its just not worth the money. I am sorry. Larue and Gap are both nice, but in .308 you really arent gaining much but alot of weight and slight accuracy. You can drop a Gieselle and a Handle defense lower and still come in around the OBR and way under the KAC.
Based around the .308, nothing really competes with it. Outside of the optics issue (cant use cheap optics on the scar), I am just finding it hard not to like.
domestique
09-20-13, 19:54
Its taken me a while to finnaly come around, but here I am.
When it comes to .308 gas guns, there is the SCAR and everything else. Based around the .308, you cannot beat it. It is lighter, very light recoil, ACCURATE ergonomic and proven.
Accuracy may be subjective but with good ammo they are shooting around .75MOA. That is MORE than enough for most shooters. Not many people are shooting .308 gassers anyway. Most have moved onto .260/6.5CM if they are shooting for scores or ELR.
The SR25 is nice, but its just not worth the money. I am sorry. Larue and Gap are both nice, but in .308 you really arent gaining much but alot of weight and slight accuracy. You can drop a Gieselle and a Handle defense lower and still come in around the OBR and way under the KAC.
Based around the .308, nothing really competes with it. Outside of the optics issue (cant use cheap optics on the scar), I am just finding it hard not to like.
I was finding it hard to find! Thank you for your input. Hope life is getting back to normal on at the Naval Yard.
I feel a SCAR H, or a Colt LE901 will eventually be in my future. Coming from the M14 platform, I am used to Piston guns and would love a SCAR someday. The colt also captured my eye with being able to take one rifle case with 3 uppers to the range (7.62, 5.56 and 300 BLK).
Other than being a closet KAC fan, I was able to justify the huge price difference by hopefully achieving MOA or better accuracy and not needing to buy a GAP bolt gun that was also on my want list. Another justification was that I already have SR15 lowers and it is easier to train the wife and family to a similar platform then introduce the SCAR.
My ideal would be for Magpul to make a SCAR lower (like the Handl’s) that takes SR25 magazines….. I would jump at that soo fast.
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