Shooting Low (Shorter Site Post?)

[Mac5.56]

I consistently shoot low with larger caliber pistols. I've had people tell me my stance is good and they haven't been able to pinpoint what it is I am doing wrong.

I have a large tall build, 6'4" and bulky. Sometimes I'm dead on then I loose it and go right back to shooting low. I am about 1000 rounds into working with pistols and the only thing that is improving is that my groups are getting tighter but are still low.

I'm shooting a new 2013 M&P9mm full size. It has all the improvements of the new M&Ps.

At what point would you spring for a lower front sight post? I am very new to pistols as you can tell, but I have heard mention that this is a possible solution to my problem?

Any thoughts would me much appreciated. I searched for info on this but couldn't find anything, and I figure this is the best location for this question as opposed to in the Pistol specific forums.

[zacii]

Sounds like you're anticipating the shot and pushing the muzzle down at the last second.

Have you done any dry fire practice?

Sent from my Galaxy S2

[CougarBlue]

Sounds like you're anticipating the shot and pushing the muzzle down at the last second.

Have you done any dry fire practice?

Sent from my Galaxy S2

This would be my first guess as well. Have you tried shooting the pistol from a supported position off a bench? Some indoor ranges won't allow this but if you can support the pistol with sandbags and see how your groups look, it could be a quick way of narrowing down where the problem lies.

Personally, I wouldn't mess with the pistol until I was certain it was the sights. I wouldn't want to encourage my bad habits by altering the gun.

Good luck!

[AKDoug]

http://pistol-training.com/drills/ball-dummy-drill

[T2C]

I agree with the advice already given. I would not make any changes to the sights yet and work on technique.

One thing to think about is that some people tend to shoot low if they use the dots on the sights for aiming when first learning how to shoot pistols. Align the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and ignore the dots until you are able to shoot precisely.

[Surf]

Figure out if it is the pistol or the shooter and fix whichever one needs fixin. :)

Don't chase your tail. Eliminate the easy part first and find out if the pistol is correct or not. If you can bench rest or sandbag the pistol to remove as much shooter influence as possible on the weapon and fire some consistent groups to verify point of aim / point of impact, that is the best place to start. Or have other skilled shooters fire the pistol.

As others have mentioned, it would seem that it could be highly likely that it is shooter influence as you state that it is progressively worse with larger calibers, which suggests a shooter induced error in response to a negative reaction to the weapon going bang. This is often seen as low impacts which is generally a result of a pre-ignition push and / or milking the grip by tightening the fingers (especially the ring and small finger on the primary shooting hand) just before the gun goes bang. Some call it a flinch.

As mentioned above, there are ways to attempt to correct the issues, but I would first clarify what the problem is. Eliminating pistol error is the easiest part.

[Keith E.]

Mac,

As mentioned above there may be some anticipation involved in the low shot placements. Starting with the best option of professional instruction and working you way down to solo corrective action (dry fire, ball & dummy, etc.) there are plenty options before you start modding your firearm. Good luck on your journey.

Keith

[checkmyswag]

Dry fire, or mix in some snap caps with your ammo at the range. Very telling. I load without looking to see where I put the snap cap in the mag.

[Arctic1]

Just a thought, if you rule out the gun and/or flinch, you could possibly be subconsciously switching your focus to the target right before you pull the trigger. This can cause your shots to impact low.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/MadPick/Firearms/target_shooting_diagnosis.jpg

[checkmyswag]

Agreed. Focus on that front sight.

[Mac5.56]

Thanks guys.

First off this is not a pistol issue. My father is hitting center ring and grouping what is acceptable for his ability. The difference is me. It has also happened with me on three other pistols so it's not the gun.

[sboza]

Thanks guys.

First off this is not a pistol issue. My father is hitting center ring and grouping what is acceptable for his ability. The difference is me. It has also happened with me on three other pistols so it's not the gun.

These questions come up all the time and it's very difficult to diagnose without seeing you in person or, at the very least, video of you from your strong side with full body and halfway close-up. If the pistol is not the issue, there are a couple of things that may help. Again, without seeing you shoot, it is not really possible to diagnose your issues. And remember that those crappy shooting charts are just that, crap. They are very basic guidelines which may or may not be true for an individual shooter. There are diagnostic and corrective drills available to skilled instructors and if you can afford the time and money, I strongly recommend professional instruction.

Without seeing you shoot and based on your complaint, I would focus on two primary areas:

1: Anticipatory flinch - Ball and dummy drills can correct this issue. Even experienced shooters frequently develop this after shooting higher volume then they are used to shooting. A small explosion in your hands is not natural by any means. Search ball and dummy drills, I have gone into detail in previous posts and do not feel like repeating myself. One thing, I sincerely believe that unpredictability (not knowing which round is chambered) and reinforcement (3-5 proper dry fires after a noticeable flinch during the drill) make the drill. There are a lot of variations but without these two elements, I would argue that they are less than effective. Use search.

2: Support hand wrist should be locked down. This naturally brings the gun back to a level plane after recoil without the gun dipping.Stance only deals with the straight back portion of recoil. Grip deals with control of "flip." Search locked wrist. If you don't get good hits, I will explain here but I'm sure that I, along with several others have discussed this issue in the past. People get into goofy arguments about thumbs forward or crossed or up, etc... but the real change in the modern grip is the canted (locked) wrist which yields a natural thumbs forward grip. Just because your thumbs are pointed forward doesn't mean you are doing it right, the key is the locked support wrist.

P.S. Sorry for the rambling format, I need to get to bed so I am typing quickly and in laymen's terms for the benefit of the OP.