Reloading Equip - ?

[Brimstone]

So I am looking at getting started reloading for the fun of it and hopefully to defray the costs of buying bulk ammo for classes. I will be primarily reloading .223 and 9mm. I would love to be able to spend $1000+ and get the full Dillon set-up, but at least initially I am going to be on a budget. Here is what I am considering right now:

Kempf Kit w/ Lee Classic Turret Press
Rifle Caliber Kits include:
Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee PaceSetter Dies (3 Die set) .223
Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Saftety Prime System (Large AND Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser
Powder-Thru Rifle Charging Die
Case Lube
Double Disk Kit

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 9mm Luger

Powder Scale? - not sure
Tumbler
Ammo boxes
Hornady Primer Turning Tray
Tumbler ? - not sure
Digital calipers - already have these
Bullet puller
Reloading manuals - have Lyman and Speer

What am I missing? I am looking to start slow and maybe upgrade in the future if needed.

Thanks

[RearwardAssist]

If you are loading bulk for classes I think you will be much happier on a progressive. I know you said its not in the budget but it may be something worth saving up for.

[Brimstone]

If you are loading bulk for classes I think you will be much happier on a progressive. I know you said its not in the budget but it may be something worth saving up for.

Hmmm...that is a solid point. I would think I could probably get 150-200/hr from the Lee Turret. If I spend 5-6 hours a month reloading that would be 12k- 14k rounds per year of 9mm and .223 combined. Depending on finances and time commitments, I can usually fit in 2-3 quality local classes and one multi-day class that I travel to per year. Between that and regular range time I figure I should be covered.

Now you have me second guessing myself because it seems like an awful lot of rounds, but I think I would want to tinker around with it for an hour or two each week anyway. I already have a few neighbors that would buy the Lee press if I decide to change to the Dillon, so I will probably stick with the plan for now.

[RearwardAssist]

Yeah you can probably get 150-200 rounds an hour once everything is prepped and ready. I have a 650 and often when I'm getting to point of pulling my hair out from a long reloading session I think to myself hey it could be worse I could not have a progressive. when I'm not in any type of hurry and just relaxing and reloading I'm sure it wouldntg make a difference to me what I was using.

[Tennvol12345]

Get the progressive. You'll outgrow the Lee and then be hating life. 200 rounds a hour seems like high volume but you'll soon realize how frustrating it is to have to pull the handle 4 times to load a single round. I'd rather pull the handle once and have it do 4 operations at a time (I load on a 550B, soon to be a 1050)

Ask me how I know

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

[G woody]

I don't think I see a case trimmer listed. You'll need it for .223 but not 9mm.

[agr1279]

I had a Lyman Turret single stage press to learn how to start reloading. I had it maybe two years before I bought a Dillon 550B. The single stages are great to learn on but after that they suck. You can look online and find use Dillon’s. I would do that instead of getting what you listed. If you are stuck on the idea of a single stage press then get the Hornandy Lock and Load single stage and a lot of the inserts so you don't have to readjust your dies every time. I have one that get used so infrequently that I should probably sell it.

Dan

[Brimstone]

You guys are dead set on costing me more $$$. :)

[wilson1911]

Most of us who reload have been thru trial and error over the years. Most all reloaders come to the same conclusion, buy once cry once.

If you get a single stage for loading 223 and 9mm, you will soon be trying to sell the machine for a progressive. Buy any other progressive and you will wish you had been smart enough to buy a dillon. If you end up shooting a high end bolt gun, the rock chucker is pretty good, since we are not trying to build that 1000000000 round stock pile. Or you can turn a 550b into a single stage and load on it(I do).

If you can afford a 650 I would jump on one since your going to be loading 223, but the 550 will work fine. Remember the 650 will cost more (2x)once you get all the goodies.

The Dillon will spank the Lee turret press all over the place. If we look at cost, the Dillon puts more rounds per hour our, but with a higher start up cost. The Lee is cheaper and resale will not be the same as a Dillon. I have seen people use a Dillon for 4 years and sell it for $100 less than they have in it.
Reloading is something that you either like or dislike. If your in this for the long haul, rolling your own will save you thousands of dollars over the years.
If your finances do not allow you to buy a 650 or 550, then save up longer. Look for used ones while your saving. For progressive loading, Dillon is the gold standard.

Guys that have a 550 often move up to the 650 after 3-5 years, so its very possible to get one for a slight discount. Reloading 45acp or 9mm costs me .15 per round give or take, depending on what bullet your using.

For a more even exaggerated view 338 lapua Mag costs $65 for 10 off the shelf.

Box(100) of lapua brass $250
bullets = .60
powder= .40
primer = .5

Do the math for bulk ammo and it comes out to a huge savings also. So, if we add up 1 year worth of shooting store ammo and 1 year savings from rolling your own. How much will you save for 2 years of reloading ? This is how much you should spend on a press, be it Lee or Dillon.

This is just a rough estimate, because there are other things you need to prep brass with etc. This is just the basic round cost.

Until you decide, go buy a brass wizard and a 5 gallon bucket. Never go to the range without it. Free brass = lower cost of shooting.

No matter what you decide to go with, we are all here to help you get it up and running. Go slow and be safe.

[Brimstone]

Until you decide, go buy a brass wizard and a 5 gallon bucket. Never go to the range without it. Free brass = lower cost of shooting.

I hadn't seen the Brass Wizard until you mentioned it, pretty cool. I have been picking up brass, even in calibers I don't shoot, for a couple years now. I shoot a lot, so it has added up to a disturbing amount.


OK, so now I am looking at going progressive. My brother works for ATK and can get me a good deal on a RCBS Pro 2000. How does that sound?

[agr1279]

I hadn't seen the Brass Wizard until you mentioned it, pretty cool. I have been picking up brass, even in calibers I don't shoot, for a couple years now. I shoot a lot, so it has added up to a disturbing amount.


OK, so now I am looking at going progressive. My brother works for ATK and can get me a good deal on a RCBS Pro 2000. How does that sound?

I would say no. I know some who have gotten them and later got a Dillon. The Dillon set up is so much easier.

Dan

[wilson1911]

OK, so what kind of price difference are we looking at between the Dillon and the RCBS for a full setup ? I know a Dillon is around 1200ish, but I have no experience with the RCBS.

I hate to sound like the others, but the Dillon is the only way to go if you are going to be reloading for years. Loading 12k+ a year is what has me leaning heavily on the Dillon. They are like a ROCK. Purr like a kitten. Did I mention the sexy blue ???

What is your actual budget ?

I tell ya what. I want a new tumbler(stainless roller) for my 338 lm. I will sell ya my Dillon vibe tumbler for half a new one cost and give you all my media.

I have 1 stock tool head I will throw in also, as I use the machined heads now with uniquetek measure. I will give you my Dillon manual powder scale.

How does this sweeten the pot for getting a Dillon ? I just hate to see you happy at first, then realize how much more a Dillon is in quality vs all the others.

[Keith E.]

Or you can turn a 550b into a single stage and load on it(I do).

.........or you can get the 550 set up without all of the bells and whistles and then upgrade later if/when you feel the need to.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25792/catid/1/BL_550_Basic_Loader

Enjoy,
Keith

[Brimstone]

OK, so what kind of price difference are we looking at between the Dillon and the RCBS for a full setup ? I know a Dillon is around 1200ish, but I have no experience with the RCBS.

I hate to sound like the others, but the Dillon is the only way to go if you are going to be reloading for years. Loading 12k+ a year is what has me leaning heavily on the Dillon. They are like a ROCK. Purr like a kitten. Did I mention the sexy blue ???

What is your actual budget ?

I tell ya what. I want a new tumbler(stainless roller) for my 338 lm. I will sell ya my Dillon vibe tumbler for half a new one cost and give you all my media.

I have 1 stock tool head I will throw in also, as I use the machined heads now with uniquetek measure. I will give you my Dillon manual powder scale.

How does this sweeten the pot for getting a Dillon ? I just hate to see you happy at first, then realize how much more a Dillon is in quality vs all the others.

Well after looking into this further today, it seems that I can get a much better deal on the RCBS than I thought. I don't want to say exactly what the discount is, but the full set-up with dies and everything will be half of what I would pay for the same thing from Dillon. That is the employee/family discount. I am having him confirm the exact prices, but if it is close to what he told me over the phone it will be hard to pass up.

[Gahunter12]

Do your self a favor, and buy a Dillon. I have 2 Dillon RL550b, and a RCBS Rock Chunker. I load .40s&w, .38spl, and .223 on one RL550b, and the other RL550 is setup for .45acp. My RCBS Rock Chunker only loads 7mm RM, .300WM, and .300RUM. The single stage press is great for my magnum calibers since I only load 50-100 rounds per year. I load 25k-30k pistol and .223 rounds per year on my Dillons. There's no way I could load that much with a turret press, or Single stage.

I enjoy reloading, and spending time in my reloading shop, but 150-200 round per hour would cause serious hair loss.:D I can usually load 400 rounds per hour on my Dillons. I just had 5k .401" bullets, and 2k .223 bullets delivered last Wednesday. Guess what I did today!:D

[CrazyFingers]

I have been picking up brass, even in calibers I don't shoot, for a couple years now. I shoot a lot, so it has added up to a disturbing amount.

This is not a bad thing for a couple reasons. First, obviously there's always the chance that you'll end up buying a new gun in that caliber, and huzzah, you've got brass for it.
Or, you can trade the brass you don't need for brass you do need. I traded a decent stash of .40 S&W (which I don't shoot) for .223 on the EE here, and was very glad I'd spent the time to pick it up.

[Quick Draw]

In your list of items needed you listed a powder scale as optional.

You will need one to verify the weight of charges from your powder dispenser. If your powder dispenser is accurate then you will be able to random check rounds instead of weighing each charge.

Dillon presses are the gold standard although I have enjoyed the Hornady AP progressive that I use along with my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage for low volume calibers.

Check with Mid South Shooters Supply for excellent prices on the Hornady AP. You will get a powder measure and shuttle for large and small primers. Basically it is a plug and play but you will need a shell plate for 9mm and one for .223/5.56 and of course the dies for each caliber.

The Hornady costs significantly less than the Dillon and is one case where you can still have quality without breaking the bank.

I agree with others that a progressive is so nice for high volume calibers.

[davestarbuck]

I have the LCT, a 550b, and a 650xl.

I still use the LCT for lower volume stuff like 308.

The 550 is what I load everything but 9mm on.

The 650 is for brass processing of 223 and 300 blk, plus I load 9mm on it to the tune do around 15 k a year.

The LCT works fine if you are shooting 100-200 rounds a week in one or two calibers.

The 550 is the perfect blend of speed and simplicity IMHO.

The 650 is great if you don't mind tinkering with it. I've got an aftermarket primer pocket swager on it so it makes it double as fast to process rifle brass with it. I almost never use it, but I use the LCT and 550 almost daily.

Me I'd just get a 550b...

[DBR]

I strongly disagree re the RCBS 2000 vs the Dillon 550. I have owned all of the Dillon models over the past 20 years. The only one I still own is a 1050 that I use for volume pistol loads.

I use my manual index RCBS 2000 for virtually everything else. I prefer manual indexing for most reloading. IMO the RCBS 2000 a much better made press than the 550. It is made from cast iron, not aluminum. It has better designed shell plates and ram/linkage (I am retired mechanical engineer). Caliber change over is very simple and fast. It has a superior (safer) priming system which is also very easy to change over from sm to lg.

I use both the drum type powder measure that it comes with and Dillon powder measures depending on powder and cartridge. It also has five stations which allows a powder check station which I think is very important.

There is a guy who posts on "The High Road" website under the name of "Peter Eck" who claims to have loaded more than 275,000 rds on his RCBS 2000.

Finally, RCBS customer service has in my experience been just as good as Dillon's.

I say if you can get a deal on an RCBS 2000 go for it. I still recommend the manual index model though. IME it is more versatile.

OK Flame Suit on!

I do use Dillon dies for most of my reloading.

[Brimstone]

Thanks for all the feedback in this thread.

To give an update on this thread I will say that I did a lot of research on this topic. I read a lot on different forums and websites and I found that Dillon gets a lot of praise. The problem is that most of the praise comes from people who have only owned Dillon presses. It made things real confusing as to what was reality and what was people trying to feel good about the decision they made. I find myself doing it all the time when I talk about M&Ps, Benelli, BCM, etc. I know that there are other great products out there but I always seem to recommend the ones I have purchased. The RCBS Pro 2000 retail pricing is expensive and I would assume that a lot of people would opt for Dillon or Hornady over RCBS based merely on price.

After weighing the pros/cons of RCBS v Dillon, I went with the RCBS Pro 2000 Auto. To me, it just added up to a better press. I could see advantages with few drawbacks in the RCBS.

The things that swayed me to RCBS:

1. Only all cast iron press. Quality.
2. 5 station die. I just like the way that RCBS changes dies and has an extra slot for a powder check, bullet feeder, etc.
3. Ease of changing calibers. Powder measure stays put and quick change of dies.
4. Primer strip feeding. The majority of RCBS owners love the strip primer feeding system. It is much safer than tube system and quicker to load.
5. Customer service equal or better than Dillon
6. Price. It was a helluva deal. Since I was considering this a lifetime investment, price wasn't my biggest concern. I wanted the best press, but saving money always helps.



I ordered the RCBS and all of the dies and accessories I need to reload 9mm and .223. The whole kit should be here in a couple weeks. It will be interesting to see how easy it is for a reloading newb like myself to get the system dialed in and running. I will post a follow-up thread on my experiences after it arrives. Right now I have to start building a reloading bench.

[AFshirt]

Did I see digital scales listed on there? Made life a lot easier for me. Also, I have almost the exact same setup you are describing. The Lee turret press with auto disk, auto prime etc etc. I load 9mm, 45, 380, 308, and 223 with it. 223 and 308 get trimmed and powder charged on a separate table with a Lee trimmer and Lee Perfect powder measure. I can do do a box of 50 pistol rounds in 15 minutes so the 100-150 per hour is pretty accurate. Rifle takes extra prep steps because you have to lube, trim etc. I would also recommend a universal decapping die if you want to do rifle as well as a few extra decapping pins for pistol. I also recommend a tumbler because clean shiny brass runs through the dies a lot easier. If you do rifle you will need a primer reamer if you want to do crimped primer mil surplus brass.

To learn the specifics of exactly how to set everything up and make sure every round is perfect I recommend learning on as single stage. They can be had cheaply and use the same dies as a progressive. Once you get the specifics and how to make them work correctly every time then upgrade. Reloading is not easy and requires a lot of attention to detail. When you try and automate every single function it will be very easy to miss something.

[SteveL]

I'll soon be following in the OP's footsteps as I plan to set up for reloading after the first of the year. I hear a lot of people say go with Dillon, but when I ask them what else they've used besides Dillon I usually just get blank stares. I have no doubt that Dillon makes excellent stuff, or else they wouldn't have the reputation they have. However I don't believe they're the only quality game in town. The Hornady Lock N Load has really caught my eye and it seems the vast majority of people using it are very happy with it, but I haven't decided on anything for sure just yet.

[Koshinn]

Thanks for all the feedback in this thread.

To give an update on this thread I will say that I did a lot of research on this topic. I read a lot on different forums and websites and I found that Dillon gets a lot of praise. The problem is that most of the praise comes from people who have only owned Dillon presses. It made things real confusing as to what was reality and what was people trying to feel good about the decision they made. I find myself doing it all the time when I talk about M&Ps, Benelli, BCM, etc. I know that there are other great products out there but I always seem to recommend the ones I have purchased. The RCBS Pro 2000 retail pricing is expensive and I would assume that a lot of people would opt for Dillon or Hornady over RCBS based merely on price.

After weighing the pros/cons of RCBS v Dillon, I went with the RCBS Pro 2000 Auto. To me, it just added up to a better press. I could see advantages with few drawbacks in the RCBS.

The things that swayed me to RCBS:

1. Only all cast iron press. Quality.
2. 5 station die. I just like the way that RCBS changes dies and has an extra slot for a powder check, bullet feeder, etc.
3. Ease of changing calibers. Powder measure stays put and quick change of dies.
4. Primer strip feeding. The majority of RCBS owners love the strip primer feeding system. It is much safer than tube system and quicker to load.
5. Customer service equal or better than Dillon
6. Price. It was a helluva deal. Since I was considering this a lifetime investment, price wasn't my biggest concern. I wanted the best press, but saving money always helps.



I ordered the RCBS and all of the dies and accessories I need to reload 9mm and .223. The whole kit should be here in a couple weeks. It will be interesting to see how easy it is for a reloading newb like myself to get the system dialed in and running. I will post a follow-up thread on my experiences after it arrives. Right now I have to start building a reloading bench.

So what exactly did you buy and from where?

[Brimstone]

So what exactly did you buy and from where?


I ordered:

RCBS Pro 2000 Auto Index Press
RCBS Carbide Dies for 9mm Luger
RCBS .223 REM/5.56X45 SB T/C DIE SET
PRO 2000 DIE PLATE x3
5 STATION SHELL PLATE #16
5 STATION SHELL PLATE #10
Powder Checker Die
TUBE PBF .380/9MM/.38-357 (90-158GR) (bullet feeder)
CASE SLICK SPRAY LUBE

All of that direct from RCBS. I picked up a scale and tumbler locally and I also have a depriming and decapping die coming from Midway.

[walkin' trails]

You won't regret having the progressive. I was going to buy an inexpensive single stage when I wanted to get into reloading and the advice I got was the same as you got to buy the progressive instead. I bought a 550 (about 20 years ago). Dillion makes good stuff, but I don't hear about anyone cussing about the other companies, so I think youre on the right track.