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ptmccain
09-14-13, 12:25
Took another class at Asymmetric Solutions USA (http://www.asymmetricsolutionsusa.com) in Farmington, Missouri and this time brought along a couple friends, Dan Zimmerman, Managing Editor of The Truth About Guns (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/) blog site and Tim McNabb, a contributing editor. The folks at Asymmetric were gracious hosts and put us through our paces. A highlight for me was running several live fire excercises from inside a vehicle. The goal of the training is to begin to give you a sense of what you should be prepared for if/when, God forbid, you face a lethal threat while in your vehicle.

I've run these drills a few times and here are some of my impressions and things I've learned.

As always, it's all about "practice, practice practice."

Engaging a threat through the windshield is not difficult, but it takes some getting used to. Your first instinct is to assume that if you discharge your weapon inside your car, through your windshield, the result will be an explosive shattering of glass, blowing it all over yourself. This is pure Hollywood. Reality is that the rounds go very easily through the windshield and due to the nature of vehicle safety glass, there is very little that is actually blown out and it goes out the direction of the bullet. You are able to see, engage and hit targets through your windshield.

As soon as possible thereafter you engage any threats to either side and then exit the vehicle to get yourself in position behind as much of the engine block area as possible.

As in all such situations, speed and violence of the action is the key. If you have to stop and think through anything, you are placing yourself in serious jeopardy.

OK, that's the ideal.

The reality is that, in these drills, when shooting from a very small car that has no wheels, not to mention tires, rolling yourself out of it is not an exercise in speed or precision for a guy like me, but you do what you can.

Once again, the major lesson reinforced for me was: Mindset, Mindset, Mindset, the practice, practice and practice. Then, equipment.

As you can see in the video, we did have some equipment problems. The one gent had a malfunction with his fuller size semi-auto and with his pocket gun. The pocket gun was pretty much infective. Was it due to lack of practice? Maybe. Hard to say. The other gent had to stop and reload because he was using an eight round capacity Commander style 1911. Again, practice, practice, practice.

I took shots and missed, particularly badly when I forgot to engage the target through the right front window, opened the door and then tried to engage one handed. Disaster. Again: practice, practice, practice!

Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/cP_r1Hsk-J0

Iraqgunz
09-14-13, 15:35
Would you care to elaborate on the purpose of this drill?

What is the scenario here?

What is the relevance of shooting at targets through a windshield? Are they armed and if so, with what?

Having been in a carjacking before nothing I saw was remotely close to how it they usually happen.

ptmccain
09-14-13, 17:28
Would you care to elaborate on the purpose of this drill?

What is the scenario here?

What is the relevance of shooting at targets through a windshield? Are they armed and if so, with what?

Having been in a carjacking before nothing I saw was remotely close to how it they usually happen.

If your evaluation of every possible situation in which you may face an armed thread while you are in vehicle is based on your carjacking experience, you may not find such an exercise useful. I found it to be very helpful to experience what it would be like to have to use my firearm from inside my vehicle and good to know that if I had to face an armed threat from the other side of my windshield, I could. As always, YMMV.

Iraqgunz
09-14-13, 23:25
You also didn't answer my questions. Instead, you picked apart my statement.

If someone wants to know what it's like to shoot inside of a vehicle to know what it is like, that's one thing. Shooting through auto glass is another.

I fail to see how your description of "Carjacking Live Fire Drills" is applicable. The scenario portrayed in the video is reminiscent of something in Hollywood.

Are those people standing in front of the vehicle armed? If so, with what? Are they carrying firearms or machetes? Are you on a crowded street or is it late night in a downtown parking lot? This is important because if they have firearms you are outgunned and they aren't going to stay stationary. If they are carrying knives or other objects I am using the 4000 lb. bullet underneath my ass to end it, not engage in some Tombstone Town Square shoot out.

In my particular situation it was point blank range and the perps attempted to pull me from the vehicle.


If your evaluation of every possible situation in which you may face an armed thread while you are in vehicle is based on your carjacking experience, you may not find such an exercise useful. I found it to be very helpful to experience what it would be like to have to use my firearm from inside my vehicle and good to know that if I had to face an armed threat from the other side of my windshield, I could. As always, YMMV.

ptmccain
09-14-13, 23:27
OK, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Iraqgunz
09-14-13, 23:40
No argument. I fail to see how this is some type of "anti-carjacking training" and there is no clear description of instruction given, or any other discussion or frame of reference.



Sorry, I can tell you want to have an argument here about this. Not interested.

RalphK.
09-14-13, 23:54
That's a great drill for LEO's following a car stop or protection details covering a high value target during a road block as opposed to a car jacking.

Most if not all will take place from behind the vehicle approach followed by a gun to the ear hole or a knife to the throat type shit. Some use the accident approach..."lightly" tapping you from behind w/ the chase (stolen) vehicle and when you get out to MF the guy his partner is busy getting in your vehicle with or without any confrontation and/or weapon produced.

I don't think most shitbirds are dumb enough to stand in front of the car providing themselves to your front bumper...

Just saying...great exercise which every Leo should experience.

ptmccain
09-14-13, 23:59
Changed the title of the thread to better reflect what the exercise was about. Hope this calms IraqGunz a bit.

:)

jaysoda
09-15-13, 05:59
Is this the same training outfit that had the epic meltdown over on the Everyday No Days Off blog?

diving dave
09-15-13, 10:21
Looks like fun. As a LEO, I've been ambushed in a car before, it's not fun... Bottom line if you have to engage through glass you can, but the real issue is getting out of the car as fast as possible.

RogerinTPA
09-15-13, 10:31
It looks almost identical to the drills we ran in the VTAC Street Fighter course, except we engaged targets to the front, side, and to the rear of the vehicle, while seated in the driver's seat, then maneuvered to seek cover to reengage.

ptmccain
09-15-13, 16:28
Yup, I have to work on that getting out of the car quickly part.

:)

JW5219
09-15-13, 17:47
It's Ok they still make hour glasses.

T2C
09-15-13, 17:53
Looks like fun. As a LEO, I've been ambushed in a car before, it's not fun... Bottom line if you have to engage through glass you can, but the real issue is getting out of the car as fast as possible.

That is a fact. I also believe you should have the mindset to exit the vehicle from another door if necessary.