Weird malfunction with Federal Idependence M193

[Zane1844]

Today at the range after firing around 70 rounds of the M193 in question, on round did not go off after I pulled the trigger. I took out the mag, waited to see if it would fire off late, then proceeded to try and eject the round.

That was where the problem started. The BCG was stuck, I could not pull it back. My friend at the range had a screwdriver, stuck it up the magwell and slightly moved the bolt back, then I was able to lock it back. His method was actually pretty smart compared to having to "mortar" it.

I looked in the chamber, the round was in it, with no primer strike, so I released the bolt, it wont home, I then fired it.

Next magazine and the same problem occurred. I cannot remember if it was the first or second round. But it was the same thing, trigger went click instead of bang, BCG was stuck, used the screwdriver, this time the round was ejected when I locked the BCG back. Again, no primer strike. I reloaded the rifle, it went bang.


my AE .223 had no problems, neither did the rest of the M193.

I tried to search, even with google, I could not find anything. Especially because I do not know what this malfunction is called.

The gun was filthy but well lubed, if that matters.

Thanks guys.

[Eric D.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that remanufactured ammo? If so, maybe a case sizing issue?

I have experienced the same malfunction a few times. If it happens again, take a look at the bcg through the ejection port to see if it is actually all the way forward. I think what happens is after the weapon gets really dirty and the bolt and gas rings start to get dry, the carrier can stick partially rearward instead of going all the way forward (or the carrier may bounce and then stick partially rearward) - this explains why there were no marks from the firing pin too.

The last time it happened to me I squirted some lube into the carriers' vent holes and it didn't happen again after that.

[Dead Man]

It does sound like the weapon isn't going fully into battery. I'd brush out the barrel extension and chamber real well and try again. If it continues definitely try different ammo. Sounds like grit in the barrel extension to me, though.

[Zane1844]

Eric D, I do not think it is re-manufactured.

I believe both of you are right, since the BCG was not full into battery when these malfunctions occurred, and that explains why when I re-chambered the round it fired.

[Zane1844]

By the way guys, could this be rust on my barrel extension? Thanks, I did not really want to start a new thread about it. I keep it well lubed and clean, I do not see how it could rust. This is not the rifle having the malfunctions.



http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a633/zane1844/photo18_zps47b93d91.jpg

[Dead Man]

I've observed the same orangey-reddish splotches in a lot of barrel extensions, actually. It's probably some kind of pre-chrome rust-like imperfection, but doesn't appear to be a problem. They don't ever seem to change, get bigger, or pit.

[Zane1844]

I've observed the same orangey-reddish splotches in a lot of barrel extensions, actually. It's probably some kind of pre-chrome rust-like imperfection, but doesn't appear to be a problem. They don't ever seem to change, get bigger, or pit.

Thanks for your help. I will keep an eye on it; it is on my HD carbine, so I want to make sure there is no corrosion or rust in it.

Also, do you guys think the Vltor A5 system would have prevented the malfunction I witnessed today? Doesn't help the bolt go forward with more force?

[ST911]

The Independence is an ATK import, XM193i. It is new manufacture.

[Dead Man]

Thanks for your help. I will keep an eye on it; it is on my HD carbine, so I want to make sure there is no corrosion or rust in it.

Also, do you guys think the Vltor A5 system would have prevented the malfunction I witnessed today? Doesn't help the bolt go forward with more force?

Being relatively new school to me, I may or may not fully understand the A5 concept. But my understanding is that is simulates the rifle-length buffering system, which actually uses a lighter spring. The spring would not push as hard as a carbine spring, but perhaps a longer action would increase momentum? I have no idea.

Whatever the case, to answer the question- assuming the problem is just grit in your chamber, I would think not. Getting the grit out is about all that's going to reliably fix that.

[Hwikek]

Sure hope this doesn't happen to me, I bought 100 rounds since it was <$.50 per round. You're certain the issue is related to ammo?

[Zane1844]

Sure hope this doesn't happen to me, I bought 100 rounds since it was <$.50 per round. You're certain the issue is related to ammo?

Not 100%. I just figured it must be since I have fired this rifle when it was a lot more dirty before with no issues.

Today I also fired a few rounds of CBC 5.56 with no problem and lot of AE .223.

These are the only two problems I have had with this ammo and I have shot almost 2,000 rounds of it since January or so.

I also kept shooting after these malfunctions and the rifle function fine with the ammo and my .223.

[yhmspecter]

I had a similar issue shooting WIN m855, it turned out to be a blown primer, not the actual primer cup but the anvil was stuck in the barrel extension, which prevented the bolt from going fully into battery.I think it actually stuck there due to the large amount of carbon from shooting a few thousand rounds suppressed..I have shot a little over 1000 rds of the Independence ammo, it is factory ammo loaded by IMI, the only issue is it is a very very hot load.

[Zane1844]

I have shot a little over 1000 rds of the Independence ammo, it is factory ammo loaded by IMI, the only issue is it is a very very hot load.

Oh yeah! I think it is almost too hot!

I wonder though if that would make it tumble and fragment more reliably than other FMJ loads.?

The bullet comes out fast, I hold the lowest for it than any of my other 5.56 at 400-600 yards.

[eightmillimeter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that remanufactured ammo? If so, maybe a case sizing issue?


This. It is possible to have some oversize cases even in factory new ammunition especially if its imported. Rare, but it happens.

Once upon a time I failed to properly resize a couple hundred LC 5.56 brass and what the OP described is exactly what happened in my 20" DCM gun.

If you have a case gauge you can quickly check the rest of the ammo you have and easily identify ones that won't cooperate on chambering.

[steyrman13]

I had a similar issue shooting WIN m855, it turned out to be a blown primer, not the actual primer cup but the anvil was stuck in the barrel extension, which prevented the bolt from going fully into battery.I think it actually stuck there due to the large amount of carbon from shooting a few thousand rounds suppressed..I have shot a little over 1000 rds of the Independence ammo, it is factory ammo loaded by IMI, the only issue is it is a very very hot load.

My bet is on this as welll.
I was shooting some Malaysian M193 (1981 manufactured) and it is VERY HOT!. I ended up with a couple of blown primers sitting in the barrel extension every few rounds causing the Bolt to not go into full battery. Pulling the BCG back, it cleared the primer own its own and was able to release the BCG back into battery and commence firing. I just so happened to see the primers both times. I haven't chrono'd it nor the IMI, but they both eject in the same area and both seem to be on par with other HOT loads.

[markm]

Those primer cups and anvils have a magic power to lodge and hide in the worst places. The Independenc ammo is Cuckoo bird hot. I bought a box, Chrono'd 5 rounds, and then pulled the rest down for components.

[FeltaDorce]

I second MarkM: I have personal experience with Independence, and have had boxes where every 4-5 rounds would drop the primer cup into the lower. It somehow ALWAYS jammed up the fire group. We took a few boxes and pulled them apart. Primers were barely hanging in the primer pockets. I will not buy/shoot Independence again.

[markm]

I don't get why these plants do this. Q3131a1 is loaded about 100 fps below M193 spec, and is/was when you could find it, some really optimal running 55 gr ammo. 3131a1 had a little more umph than .223 ammo, but didn't scortch the brass and rifle when you shot it.

[Greenhead308]

I've observed the same orangey-reddish splotches in a lot of barrel extensions, actually. It's probably some kind of pre-chrome rust-like imperfection, but doesn't appear to be a problem. They don't ever seem to change, get bigger, or pit.

I have found the same thing. Most of my rifles have that in the barrel extension.

[Bigun]

It's probably flash rust from the acid bath before plating.