View Full Version : Active Shooter Navy yard in DC
Still reporting as active.
No details.
Navy Sea Systems Command Building - lone gunman
2 to 3 down. 1 Officer.
Now reporting 4 shot.
2 shot in building
1 shot on roof
1 officer shot in both legs
shooter believed to be outside building now ... 9:31AM
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 08:34
God speed to those officers, hope they bring this to a quick resolution.
The_War_Wagon
09-16-13, 08:40
Live coverage. http://live.foxnews.com/#/2554140788001
Oh boy... here we go...
News guy..."Some are reporting an AR15 type assault rifle but these are early reports and we can't confirm, so be aware, we don;t know for sure but it could be an AR15 type assault rifle.
Reporting 2 Officers now ( 1 DC Officer confirmed )..... I'll tell you, from the TV picture if someone fired a shot they would hit an officer now just by default, it's wall to wall authorities.
CNN update 10 victims. Shooter 6' tall bald black male, wearing all black.
NBC News reports ---- Senior Navy Official at Yard relaying...
At least Dozen shot.
4 Killed
Voodoochild
09-16-13, 09:16
I have a good friend that works in that very building. Verified he is safe and accounted for.
They seem to be saying the guy has been either captured or killed but waffle on how they say it.
Fox reporting four INJURED, all in critical condition.
Oh Jeeze.... now they are saying there may be multiple shooters. One suspect taken down, but possibly multiple shooters.
Per NBC. 10:24AM
polymorpheous
09-16-13, 09:25
The Washington Post is reporting 3 shooters, one shooter "down".
10 wounded, 1 received a medical airlift, the other are being treated on the ground.
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 09:30
The Washington Post is reporting 3 shooters, one shooter "down".
10 wounded, 1 received a medical airlift, the other are being treated on the ground.
hopefully a typo, no one else confirming it.
Three shooters inside a Naval yard? Sounds like possible domestic terrorism. Thoughts with the families of the victims. Hope this doesn't get exploited for political purposes, but it probably will.
.46caliber
09-16-13, 09:31
I guess it would kill the networks to keep their traps shut till they actually got correct info.
Godspeed with the LE and victims.
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Eurodriver
09-16-13, 09:31
The Washington Post is reporting 3 shooters, one shooter "down".
10 wounded, 1 received a medical airlift, the other are being treated on the ground.
If it is 3 black shooters, 99% likely to be Islamic Fundamentalism.
So much for gun/mag ban in DC...
Sad. Hope the news media is full of shit and its only one guy. Not that it makes a difference to the injured, just hoping this comes to a quick end with no more injuries to innocents.
A Ft Hood soldier got busted with an unregistered DD the other day. Wonder if any connection exists.
Is this the former CIA/NPIC building ... G213?
CNN was reporting one shooter, black male. I heard a blurb about it possibly being a shotgun. Funny, CNN's anchor was interviewing someone at the location & was saying that "this is a highly secure area, I've never heard of anything like this ever happening before. Have you ever heard anything like this before?" He calmly said "Well certainly you must remember the Fort Hood shooting back in 2009??" She didn't respond... :rolleyes:
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davidjinks
09-16-13, 09:44
I'm not too far from this location. Company HQ is a block from the naval yard.
So far everything in my area is calm.
Just an FYI, Reagan international was shut down for a ground stop. Reports here are stating possibly related to naval yard shooting.
Fox News reported that the shooter used a "AR15, the civilian version of the M16, and fires three round bursts."
:confused:
Mine must be broken... It only fires one round each time the trigger is pulled.
A shooting in a gun free zone? I bet nobody saw that coming.
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 09:51
Prayers to the victims families, Is it me or do we have more shootings since Obama has been president? Really strange since he's Hell bent on gun control its seems a little too " coincidental"
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 10:00
Looks like they are confirming two shooters down...on fox5
fox news national channel is saying one shooter contained
CNN was reporting one shooter, black male. I heard a blurb about it possibly being a shotgun. Funny, CNN's anchor was interviewing a someone at the location & was saying that "this is a highly secure area, I've never heard of anything like this ever happening before. Have you ever heard anything like this before?" He calmly said "Well certainly you must remember the Fort Hood shooting back in 2009??" She didn't respond... :rolleyes:
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It's laughable...
I have heard he had an AR14... that's right an AR14....
that the property is very secure but anyone with clearance could "easily" carry a weapon on the site.
-----
They are still shooting so apparently they don;t have everything contained yet.
If there's multiple shooters, the chance of this being spun as workplace violence... is zero.
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 10:06
If there's multiple shooters, the chance of this being spun as workplace violence... is zero.
who knows, shit gets crazy during these things.
If there's multiple shooters, the chance of this being spun as workplace violence... is zero.
Lover's quarrel gone awry?
You are certainly not suggesting terrorism are you? Near the anniversary of 9/11?......... that's just crazy talk.
CNN is being told by LE NOT to report description of shooter....think maybe that is because witnesses described a large black man?
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 10:16
CNN is being told by LE NOT to report description of shooter....think maybe that is because witnesses described a large black man?
opsec for the investigation.
Voodoo_Man
09-16-13, 10:18
Fox5 reporting Navy spokeman saying 2 suspects down.
edit; building 183 being cleared
So how is the media gonna spin this one?
As mentioned "workplace violence"?
If there are multiple shooters, as coincidence-more than one guy had the same idea today?
If the shooter(s) is/are Muslim, forgot to mention it? OK, maybe once at 3 AM.
If the shooter(s) is/are black, call them White-black guy(s)?
If the shooter(s) has/have illegal capacity magazines (aka standard) will they call for more bans (and ignore the fallacy of the existing statutes)?
I guess the figured if Hassan could get off, why not them also?
Man we love to speculate.
Here's to everyone let's hope they are all safe. I suggest we all wait for this to pan out before we start blaming the Black Panthers, the Libyans, Martians, AR-15 carrying robots, or hippies.
Let's just hope no more people die and everyone is safe until it is over.
brickboy240
09-16-13, 10:32
Buy mags and ammo now if you have not already done so.
-brickboy240
Man we love to speculate.
Here's to everyone let's hope they are all safe. I suggest we all wait for this to pan out before we start blaming the Black Panthers, the Libyans, Martians, AR-15 carrying robots, or hippies.
Let's just hope no more people die and everyone is safe until it is over.
So you're saying that it was a Black Panther Libyan Martian Robot Hippy with an AR-15?
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/dhs-internal-report-navy-yard-shooting-has-no-known-connection-to-terrorism/
DHS - No ties to terrorism.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 10:41
So i wake up this morning and see this one the news.
FYI, I work at the navy yard. Talked to my coworkers who are on lockdown and they said it happened over at NAVSEA.
What a ****ing mess.
Its a good thing that guns are defacto banned in D.C. and even moreso, that you cannot bring weapons onto federal property. More people killed beaucse they are unarmed targets.
There was 3 ways they got onto the yard (shooting at metro 1/4 mile away was probally heard):
1. Guy had weapon hidden in bag and had a CAC card to get in.
2. Guy shot the guard (there are atleast two guards at every gate) to get on, and NAVSEA is the first building on the right from that gate.
3. Jumped a fence or wall somewhere, but I doubt it.
There are a handfull of Navy MA's that work there but the vast majority are contracted police. Most of them are geriatric and I could not fathom them putting up much of a gunfight against someone determined/physical/moving.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/dhs-internal-report-navy-yard-shooting-has-no-known-connection-to-terrorism/
DHS - No ties to terrorism.
Well that didn't take long. Get out ahead of the facts and spin it. Glad they got it all figured out. Really restores my faith in the DHS. :rolleyes:
Prayers out to all the victims and families.
So you're saying that it was a Black Panther Libyan Martian Robot Hippy with an AR-15?
That's what the Huffington Post, and Blaze are reporting.
SilverBullet432
09-16-13, 10:44
I'm not too far from this location. Company HQ is a block from the naval yard.
So far everything in my area is calm.
Just an FYI, Reagan international was shut down for a ground stop. Reports here are stating possibly related to naval yard shooting.
My thoughts and prayers to the victims..
It really makes me mad that looneys like these types have to go and commit horrible crimes, and the rest of us suffer the toll by having our rights stripped away just so the liberals can build their utopian america...
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 10:45
Well that didn't take long. Get out ahead of the facts and spin it. Glad they got it all figured out. Really restores my faith in the DHS. :rolleyes:
Prayers out to all the victims and families.
Just like ft. Hood.... Workplace violence.....
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 10:46
Bad Intel*
I hope everyone can pull through this situation, mentally and physically.
Prepare, however, for Barry and Biden's new shenanigans..
ATF Tour Bus is on the scene.
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 11:17
At least 2 identified one black male 50s one white male dressed in " military style clothing"
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
At least 2 identified one black male 50s one white male dressed in " military style clothing"
... and she said they are not believed to actually be Military....
white guy in Khaki and Black guy in OD, dressed Military style but -not- believed to be Military...
.... and the other side was walking it back to just one guy?
That was also at 8:30... that's not good...
Somebody is clearly not telling the whole story.
SilverBullet432
09-16-13, 11:23
Keep calm and go buy ammo.
Why would NAVSEASYSCOM be targeted?
Prez is now speaking.... talking about Syria and the economy......
Mine must be broken... It only fires one round each time the trigger is pulled.
She corrected that in a later report. In fact, she stuck with the 3-round burst report, but said it therefore wasn't an AR15, but possibly a military M16
Fox News reported that the shooter used a "AR15, the civilian version of the M16, and fires three round bursts."
:confused:
I heard that too and thought... WTF?
She corrected that in a later report. In fact, she stuck with the 3-round burst report, but said it therefore wasn't an AR15, but possibly a military M16
The lack of knowledge of these reporters is typical. If you don't know what you're talking about - don't talk about it. :angry:
Why would NAVSEASYSCOM be targeted?
If you are a terrorist "Navy Headquarters" sounds a hell of a lot better on the news than "JoBob's Quick Stop"
--------------
Someone just reported that the "missing suspect" arose from .....
Two guys talking in parking lot. One guy walks away... then returns with a handgun, other guy falls down.........
apparently this was witnessed from a distance.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 11:58
If you are a terrorist "Navy Headquarters" sounds a hell of a lot better on the news than "JoBob's Quick Stop"
--------------
Someone just reported that the "missing suspect" arose from .....
Two guys talking in parking lot. One guy walks away... then returns with a handgun, other guy falls down.........
apparently this was witnessed from a distance.
Has little to nothing to do with it. The News reporters are idiots.
NAVSEA @ the yard is all offices and cube farms. They are mostly office, admin and engineers/contractors that work in office settings.
Either the person worked for/targeted specific person in NAVSEA
OR
Considering its the first major building if you enter through that gate, its the first one you would see.
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 12:04
Obama already politicizing saying " yet another mass shooting" what a real Richard Cranium
If you are a terrorist "Navy Headquarters" sounds a hell of a lot better on the news than "JoBob's Quick Stop"
I can see the symbolic value of the target if they designed and/or produced drones, but as a general rule, you would think a higher profile target would have more value.
There is a brief report that the guy was upset over a re-assignment. He was civilian worker. I hope they don't spin this to a sequester issue.
========
@TG --- tell these guys it has nothing to do with it... Any big name American item is valuable. It's viable in the world media even if locally the attack has no deep strategic value. It makes America look weak.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/16/russian-official-blames-navy-yard-shooting-on-american-exceptionalism/
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 12:08
Now saying one of the dead shooters was Employed Navy re assigned no mention if he's a civi or serviceman, as per Fox News
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 12:14
Sorry didn't see post above
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 12:45
If you are a terrorist "Navy Headquarters" sounds a hell of a lot better on the news than "JoBob's Quick Stop"
--------------
Someone just reported that the "missing suspect" arose from .....
Two guys talking in parking lot. One guy walks away... then returns with a handgun, other guy falls down.........
apparently this was witnessed from a distance.
Now saying one of the dead shooters was Employed Navy re assigned no mention if he's a civi or serviceman, as per Fox News
Probally a Civy.
.MIL gets TDY and PCS all the time, its part of the deal.
This week is going to be a mess. Wonder if they will open the yard tommrow.
7 Confirmed Dead now........
Belmont31R
09-16-13, 13:20
DC police press conference 12 dead. 2 suspects still possible on loose.
I just listened to the press conference too. 12 dead dead, more injured, yeah, etc. Gunmen on the loose, everyone stay in your homes (and get out your cameras for when they have a Boston-like manhunt).
Has there been a workplace shooting before where it was a team of disgruntled employees instead of just one nut?
A shooting in a gun free zone? I bet nobody saw that coming.
As usual bad people with guns and the good people without guns.
Prayers for the victims and their families.
Just caught this on the news.
USMC with a Benelli M4 Shotgun.
http://rt.com/files/news/20/74/30/00/8.jpg
I just listened to the press conference too. 12 dead dead, more injured, yeah, etc. Gunmen on the loose, everyone stay in your homes (and get out your cameras for when they have a Boston-like manhunt).
Has there been a workplace shooting before where it was a team of disgruntled employees instead of just one nut?
I'm honestly thinking there was only one gunman and it is just the confusion of the attack that has people thinking there were more.
My mom experienced a recent lock down to her campus because someone saw a gun, and by the end of all it the suspect was three different races, had two different colors of clothing, and was three body types.
I wouldn't be surprised if when this is all said and done there was only one shooter.
Probally a Civy.
.MIL gets TDY and PCS all the time, its part of the deal.
This week is going to be a mess. Wonder if they will open the yard tommrow.
Can you give us an idea, without giving away any crucial info of course, of what kind of security the shooter(s) would have had to overcome?
I'm honestly thinking there was only one gunman and it is just the confusion of the attack that has people thinking there were more.
There are plenty of normally law-abiding citizens who carry concealed in non-permissive environments and places that it's actually technically "illegal" to carry a gun. There is a possibility that "illegal" CCW guy/guys whipped out their blasters after hearing gunshots, etc. and people witnessed them doing so, consequently reporting it. With no apparent, immediate threat to themselves they simply holster up and blend back in to their respective environment.
Possible... I don't know how likely but a distinct possibility.
Prayers for the victims and their families.
Just caught this on the news.
USMC with a Benelli M4 Shotgun.
http://rt.com/files/news/20/74/30/00/8.jpg
Either the Marines are getting smaller, or that's a huge Benelli M4 shotgun. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it.
I'm honestly thinking there was only one gunman and it is just the confusion of the attack that has people thinking there were more.
My mom experienced a recent lock down to her campus because someone saw a gun, and by the end of all it the suspect was three different races, had two different colors of clothing, and was three body types.
I wouldn't be surprised if when this is all said and done there was only one shooter.
We experienced similar in a criminology class. Someone came in, did something ridiculous, then left in the middle of lecture. A couple of minutes later, we took a vote on a description of who we saw. It was all over the place!
Moral of the story: eye witness accounts are unreliable.
Can you give us an idea, without giving away any crucial info of course, of what kind of security the shooter(s) would have had to overcome?
A couple armed federal law enforcement types, some MP's at the gates, but mostly a mix of armed / unarmed security guards with the average training level of mall cop. (That's my guess based on how it was a couple years ago).
One thing that leads me to somewhat believe the multiple shooter aspect is the fact that the Navy was the first to report it, and they surely are not relying solely on eyewitness reports, considering how much surveillance there must be there.
I also don't see how anyone could be "illegally" ccw'ing there, as reports say there are multiple levels of security and metal detectors.
A couple armed federal law enforcement types, some MP's at the gates, but mostly a mix of armed / unarmed security guards with the average training level of mall cop. (That's my guess based on how it was a couple years ago).
News reports say metal detectors to get into the buildings? Also seems reasonable that they got by security, not overpowering them.
Phillygunguy
09-16-13, 14:25
One shooter identified from Texas Aaron Alexis .The left its going to drool and make this into a Right wing conspiracy
There are plenty of normally law-abiding citizens who carry concealed in non-permissive environments and places that it's actually technically "illegal" to carry a gun. There is a possibility that "illegal" CCW guy/guys whipped out their blasters after hearing gunshots, etc. and people witnessed them doing so, consequently reporting it. With no apparent, immediate threat to themselves they simply holster up and blend back in to their respective environment.
Possible... I don't know how likely but a distinct possibility.
Under the radar CCW on a military instillation is all kinds of stupid. This is especially true on posts in and around DC. It is hard to find real estate not covered by a camera on the populated portions of places like Quantico, McNair, Andrews, etc. Thus anyone unholstering is likely being recorded.
News reports say metal detectors to get into the buildings? Also seems reasonable that they got by security, not overpowering them.
Aaron Alexis reportedly used a stolen ID from someone that works there. Apparently that ID allows access without screening. Sounds like he just walked on in with his guns.
Under the radar CCW on a military instillation is all kinds of stupid. This is especially true on posts in and around DC. It is hard to find a place not covered by a camera on the populated portions of places like Quantico, McNair, Andrews, etc. Thus anyone unholstering is likely being recorded.
It's stupid up until the time your co-worker Aaron Alexis or Nidal Hasan decide they're having a bad day... But yeah, I totally understand what you mean about breaking the rules.
Smuckatelli
09-16-13, 14:43
Can you give us an idea, without giving away any crucial info of course, of what kind of security the shooter(s) would have had to overcome?
Parking is the most difficult aspect of the yard. If you have a DOD sticker and a Yard Parking Pass, your ID will be checked at the gate. Once inside access is granted through swiping the ID card in some restricted areas. Only place the guard has eyes on is at the gates.
Cincinnatus
09-16-13, 14:51
I was onboard the Navy Yard back in 2005. They had all sorts of security present for Bush's 2nd inaugural. They even had some anti-aircraft missiles on the roof of the parking garage. I also remember that the gate guards always had someone with a shotgun stand on the passenger side of entering cars, montoring and flanking the drivers while the drivers spoke to the guard on the driver side.
They say this guy had AR15 AND a shotgun. Also took handgun from security officer.
http://media.heavy.com/media/2013/09/aaron-alexis-s.jpg
Don't know if this is the same Aaron Alexis from Texas in his 30's that is responsible for this, but here is a mugshot from 2010 in Ft Worth, TX.
http://www.justmugshots.com/texas/fort-worth/814064
Edit: NBC is describing his arrest report that concurs with the arrest page linked above.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Aaron-Alexis-Fort-Worth-Arrest-Report-223953911.html
brickboy240
09-16-13, 15:17
If Obama had a son....would he look like that guy?
LOL
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 15:17
Parking is the most difficult aspect of the yard. If you have a DOD sticker and a Yard Parking Pass, your ID will be checked at the gate. Once inside access is granted through swiping the ID card in some restricted areas. Only place the guard has eyes on is at the gates.
Yup pretty much. Security a joke on the yard.
Anyone with a .mil ID can get on base
Anyone with a .mil ID and a DoD sticker (which is going away, they are getting rid of the decals) can drive onto base.
Anyone with a Temp pass (which is a handwritten note, that any 2nd grader could fake) can walk into the base.
Gate gaurds are a mix of mostly contractor cops (most are old, frail, and/or fat) or some MA's on rotational duty. There are a couple marines who guard the G/Officers housing.
Now that your on base, you can go anywhere. Some buildings, like the one for NAVSEA, have their own internal security.
Sounds like the dude took out the internal security guard and went from there.
Just goes to show you, that you are not "safe" anywhere. All these gun free/federal zones do is make easy targets and leave victims defenseless.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 15:19
I was onboard the Navy Yard back in 2005. They had all sorts of security present for Bush's 2nd inaugural. They even had some anti-aircraft missiles on the roof of the parking garage. I also remember that the gate guards always had someone with a shotgun stand on the passenger side of entering cars, montoring and flanking the drivers while the drivers spoke to the guard on the driver side.
Not anymore.
But I will venture to guess when I drive into work tommrow, security will look a little different!
FYI, I work at the navy yard. Talked to my coworkers who are on lockdown and they said it happened over at NAVSEA.
You don't know a lady with the last name Barton do you? Her daughter is a good friend of mine and she works one floor above where the shootings happened. She could hear shots and screaming this morning and basically said the whole thing was terrifying waiting for someone to come save them!
Failure2Stop
09-16-13, 15:55
Either the Marines are getting smaller, or that's a huge Benelli M4 shotgun. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it.
When I say stuff like that I get in trouble...
;)
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 15:59
You don't know a lady with the last name Barton do you? Her daughter is a good friend of mine and she works one floor above where the shootings happened. She could hear shots and screaming this morning and basically said the whole thing was terrifying waiting for someone to come save them!
Nope sorry man. My organization is a few blocks/buildings away from NAVSEA.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 16:00
When I say stuff like that I get in trouble...
;)
Those Marines arent even on the navy yard. They are either at the Band Facility across the street or over by the Marine Barracks a few blocks away.
The only Marines on the yard(guards) are the ones guarding Latrobe gate. I made the mistake of trying to walk into that gate one time and they quickly let me know I can use another gate ;/
EDIT: I think thats a chick. Look real hard.
Smuckatelli
09-16-13, 16:04
Those Marines arent even on the navy yard. They are either at the Band Facility across the street or over by the Marine Barracks a few blocks away.
The only Marines on the yard(guards) are the ones guarding Latrobe gate. I made the mistake of trying to walk into that gate one time and they quickly let me know I can use another gate ;/
EDIT: I think thats a chick. Look real hard.
Those are the guys from 8th & I, the only Marines on the yard are a bunch of broke ....... SNCOs and support Marines for MCI.
I was one of those broke .....SNCOs....;) My last 18 months was writing courses and the SNCOIC of security at the parades.
It is laughable when the Administration claims it "has no evidence to indicate this was a terrorist incident..."
Well of course not! They claimed to have no such clue in Benghazi or Ft Hood either even though in both cases the attackers are screaming Islamic slogans. I wouldn;t expect this administration to admit to terrorism if OBL raised from the dead and strangled Dear Leader personally.
Just for the record I doubt this IS terrorism, but it is a joke that the admin feigns to even consider it. Unless it was a truck full of hillbillies with squirrel guns, then it would be domestic terrorism.
Failure2Stop
09-16-13, 16:22
EDIT: I think thats a chick. Look real hard.
Warning: thread derail to follow
I'm 73% sure that all of the folks at 8th&I are Security Forces/Yankee White, or at least any of them that would be given a gun, and they are all 03s by trade, which I am 99% sure should preclude females (but who knows anymore).
So was it only one guy or are they still looking? You guys are way more up to date and a better source then browsing multiple websites... :D
We should disarm soldiers(etc..) on base(Etc...) for their own safety. :)
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 16:45
Warning: thread derail to follow
I'm 73% sure that all of the folks at 8th&I are Security Forces/Yankee White, or at least any of them that would be given a gun, and they are all 03s by trade, which I am 99% sure should preclude females (but who knows anymore).
The band stays there too as well as MCI.
Every Marine is a rifleman after all....lol
Ditto
seems if you are in the military they can give you the power to fight for our country and kill for our country if need be
why wont they allow our troops to remained armed at all times when on base ?
it seems this one and the ft hood might again MIGHT have been lower in numbers if so ?
I kinda wonder if its a muslim thing if its going to be like F&F the spy program the benghazi attack etc... all try to cover it up or if it comes out as muslim will be like Ft Hood just workplace violence
If it is 3 black shooters, 99% likely to be Islamic Fundamentalism.
Not only might the casualties have been lower, it is likely the event would never have taken place, since the overwhelming number of these attacks take place in gun free zones.
We should disarm soldiers(etc..) on base(Etc...) for their own safety. :)
Bubba Clinton already did that in 1993. With Ft. Hood and now NAVSEA, that reddish substance on Bubba's hands isn't the extra BBQ sauce from the Waffle House's pork chop breakfast.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/16/this-is-the-picture-local-nbc-station-says-shows-navy-yard-shooter-aaron-alexis/
so this guy has shot out tires pulled guns on people and still gets in to the navy !!
says he spent time at a Buddhist temple ? not very budah like ? but then again the 9/11 radicals spent time at a strip club ?
You don't know a lady with the last name Barton do you? Her daughter is a good friend of mine and she works one floor above where the shootings happened. She could hear shots and screaming this morning and basically said the whole thing was terrifying waiting for someone to come save them!
On a military base no less. :bad:
thopkins22
09-16-13, 17:52
Apparently shots fired at the White House now.
Apparently shots fired at the White House now.
Now that's a fast way to get holed. I wouldn't expect that to last long or be connected. Just my hunch.
and hillary a PROUD progressive wow what a coincidence !!!
people have to wake up hope its not to late
Bubba Clinton already did that in 1993. With Ft. Hood and now NAVSEA, that reddish substance on Bubba's hands isn't the extra BBQ sauce from the Waffle House's pork chop breakfast.
Apparently shots fired at the White House now.
Man threw firecrackers.
edit: "Obviously we need a national discussion on fireworks. No-one NEEDS to buy firecrackers by the brick! And we need a 6" size limit on Roman candles!" .... heh
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 18:01
When I say stuff like that I get in trouble...
;)
Just got emails from boss(s). WNY is closed tommrow.
thopkins22
09-16-13, 18:02
Man threw firecrackers.
Stupidity at work.
Fox News apparently has not caught up. Dude on the scene reported that a SS agent with a rifle engaged him. I suppose he meant something different.
ETA: They just caught up with you.
Stupidity at work.
Fox News apparently has not caught up. Dude on the scene reported that a SS agent with a rifle engaged him. I suppose he meant something different.
ETA: They just caught up with you.
I'm faster than fox news.... but both way slower than twitter.
From Naval Yard,
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130916120656-10-navy-yard-shooting-0916-horizontal-gallery.jpg
That looks to me to be a Costa / HSGI leg rig.... Also, I wonder how many people train in jeans....?
JBecker 72
09-16-13, 18:11
NBC just reported shooter had a shotgun only and took a handgun and an automatic rifle from downed law enforcement. Could be bullshit but you never know.
This didn't take very long. Get ready for another few months of stupidness!
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
NBC just reported shooter had a shotgun only and took a handgun and an automatic rifle from downed law enforcement. Could be bullshit but you never know.
Plenty of sites are reporting "double barreled" shotgun.... Wouldn't that be some shit! That the gun Biden was saying was so great for HD was what the guy used to kill his way to an AR...
Of course the news will focus not on that it was a cop's AR (m16?) just that it he used one.... But then again... This won't get 1/2 the play as if he was white.
God I loath that damn woman
number1olddog
09-16-13, 18:21
And Feinstein is at it again
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
NBC just reported shooter had a shotgun only and took a handgun and an automatic rifle from downed law enforcement.
I hope that's the case.
SilverBullet432
09-16-13, 18:21
already
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=138811
number1olddog
09-16-13, 18:21
Prayers to the Victims and Families
NBC just reported shooter had a shotgun only and took a handgun and an automatic rifle from downed law enforcement. Could be bullshit but you never know.
That's the kind of thing that gets left out of reports by most mainstream media.
And Feinstein is at it again
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
Wow, you know she woke up pleased as punch to hear about another shooting (****ing sick).
They are LITERALLY still cleaning up blood and she wants to bring up her lifetime passion of failed policies? Surely she has to realize even idiots will know this is too soon to be a legitimate concern.
Smuckatelli
09-16-13, 18:40
Warning: thread derail to follow
I'm 73% sure that all of the folks at 8th&I are Security Forces/Yankee White, or at least any of them that would be given a gun, and they are all 03s by trade, which I am 99% sure should preclude females (but who knows anymore).
The guard bubbas come out of Norfolk Security force battalion. The NCOs come from various mos'. the L/Cpls and below are 03. Once they get Yankee White they move to Camp David. Most of the guys in the guard do not hold a Yankee White.
The Butt Plates in A & B Company are 03, the parade staff Officers & Sncos come from various mos' The staff maintains a TS/SCI.
MCI is various mos, from postal clerk to motor transport. That includes the SNCOs, I was in the Combat Arms section, there was one other 03 Gunny. We also had a Tanker, Arty, and Track bubbas.
Collectively the MCI bubbas are used for parade support. The SNCOs & Officers provide bodies for the Parade Staff and SNCOs for each gate. I was in charge of Parade security because I have hearing aids......couldn't have a greeter or marcher wearing hearing aids..;)
That didn't stop me from having to attend Ceremonial Drill School each year...even though there was no way that I would ever march. Same thing with Hosting School...had to go....:angry:
jklaughrey
09-16-13, 18:42
Can somebody just cunt punch that decrepit old hag please.
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gunrunner505
09-16-13, 19:08
This didn't take very long. Get ready for another few months of stupidness!
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
Never let a crisis go to waste. These people have no soul. All they do is sit on the bottom of the cesspool waiting for their time to strike.
Disgusting excuse for a human being.
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TurretGunner
09-16-13, 19:12
Man this is really terrible. Starting to sink in finally. I really Hope it isin't any one I work with or any of my lifting buddies from Navsea. Probally wont get the names until tommrow.....
12 People just going about their business, heading to work, probally didnt even have their coffee yet, gun down for some senseless bullshit.
When will they learn that these "gun free" zones are nothing but magnets for crazy ****ers. Even areas that are secured with officers/weapons.... still reinforces that no one is responsible for keeping you safe, but yourself.
This didn't take very long. Get ready for another few months of stupidness!
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
Well, with another panic buying spree the whole nation will be in debt and ammo will be $20 a round.
Who wants my BCG? I am only asking a friendly price of $500. ;)
In all seriousness, this tragic event will again turn into a political circus.
Nice headline:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9779158132_2346d0ce83_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/) by zweitakt250 (http://www.flickr.com/people/41385771@N03/), on Flickr
Man threw firecrackers.
edit: "Obviously we need a national discussion on fireworks. No-one NEEDS to buy firecrackers by the brick! And we need a 6" size limit on Roman candles!" .... heh
What do they plan on charging with? Littering?
I hate the media... Really... AR15 shotgun.....
Nice headline:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9779158132_2346d0ce83_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/) by zweitakt250 (http://www.flickr.com/people/41385771@N03/), on Flickr
Wow...
What stands out to me: legally purchased
They seem to be implying that you can never know what a person can do who buys a gun, it could be any and everyone, no one should be able to buy these weapons of war, there is not enough hoops to jump through to buy these things.
First it wast the children, now military and civilian personnel on a Base, who will it be next?
Okay sorry, enough derailing this thread.
Nice headline:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9779158132_2346d0ce83_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/) by zweitakt250 (http://www.flickr.com/people/41385771@N03/), on Flickr
Benelli M4 shotgun
M4 shotgun
AR-15 shotgun
Or maybe an AR with a KAC master key.
Or this? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/971002/ati-ar-15-a3-t-14-upper-assembly-410-bore-20-barrel-chrome-moly-matte-with-flash-hider-5-round-magazine-pre-ban
Anyone think this will give more momentum to gun control activists and create another post-Sandy Hook situation in terms of both politics and ammo/firearm availability? I think it's too soon after to cause firearms to become scarce and ammo was just finally starting to reappear... But I think politically, we're right back into the fight again.
If you think it's incredible to see them calling for new laws when this happened in one of the most antigun-lawed places in the US and within a secured area inside of that, just imagine how much hay they'd make with this story if he was white and claimed to be associated even remotely with the term Christian or of Middle Eastern descent and in any way could be tied to Islam.
gunrunner505
09-16-13, 19:37
I hate the media... Really... AR15 shotgun.....
I saw that too. As long as it sounds scary being accurate is optional.
No, check that. As long as it sounds scary there is no need to be accurate.
This is sad....
ETA: And 223 was just getting reasonable again. Kiss that goodbye...
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I saw that too. As long as it sounds scary being accurate is optional.
No, check that. As long as it sounds scary there is no need to be accurate.
This is sad....
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Then they should've called it a Glock AK-16 Assault Machine Gun with high capacity drum clips and teflon-coated-cop-killer-black-talon bullets.
I have seen 'AR-15 shotguns' at the gun show. Not an actual AR, of course, but 'looks like one, kinda, on purpose.' Like this, more or less. (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/12/atis-new-12-gauge-ar-15-patterned-shotgun/)
Benelli M4 shotgun
Anyone think this will give more momentum to gun control activists
Of course... this is perfect timing for Obama and his little NFA love fest.
He couldn't get in the front door so he's going to throw a brick through back window. Little here, little there.
That's like asking if you think spilling sugar on the floor will draw ants. Hell Piers Morgan will probably stop having guests and just interview himself. F'r called himself an American the other day. This kinda stuff is Liberal Crack.
Piers Morgan so far is slamming base security. He's mentioned the guns used a couple times (with emphasis) but has thusfar questioned security measures only.
Shit. As I was typing some Doc is on TV calling for change.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 20:24
Piers Morgan so far is slamming base security. He's mentioned the guns used a couple times (with emphasis) but has thusfar questioned security measures only.
Shit. As I was typing some Doc is on TV calling for change.
Base security is a joke man. Old, slow guards with m9's.
Little military and long guns. Outside of NCIS there are no real gunners.
Pull up a chair have a seat on the floor
I'll tell you a story you've heard before.
One bright day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other
drew their swords and shot each other
The deaf police man heard the noise
Saved the lives of the two dead boys
If you don't believe this lie is true
Ask the blind man he saw it to!
Nice headline:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9779158132_2346d0ce83_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/9779158132/) by zweitakt250 (http://www.flickr.com/people/41385771@N03/), on Flickr
Mauser KAR98K
09-16-13, 20:55
NBC report that he acquired the M9 and AR from LE he had shot. Started with a shotgun.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Confirmed-Shooter-at-Navy-Yard-One-Person-Shot-223897891.html
Survellance video shows the gunman entered the NAVSEA building, at 1336 Isaac Hull Ave., with a shotgun, law enforcement officials told News4's Jackie Bensen.
The suspected gunman shot a security officer in the head, killing him, and took the officer's 9 mm pistol and a magazine of ammunition. The shooter then continued through the building and seemed to target his victims, who were mostly on the third and fourth floors, Bensen reported.
DreadPirateMoyer
09-16-13, 20:57
Does anyone have any knowledge on if any ARs or M4s/M16s are generally stored on bases like this? With regards to the speculation that the shooter acquired the rifle from an onsite locker, I see some people claiming that such a thing would be impossible since long guns aren't stored on bases like this. I also see people disagreeing.
Do any of you know? Do they store rifles on bases like this somewhere?
Mauser KAR98K
09-16-13, 21:00
Does anyone have any knowledge on if any ARs or M4s/M16s are generally stored on bases like this? With regards to the speculation on that the shooter acquired the rifle from an onsite locker, I see some people claiming that such a thing would be impossible since long guns aren't stored on bases like this. I also see people disagreeing.
Do any of you know? Do they store rifles on bases like this somewhere?
From the article I posted above, I believe he took it off a responding LEO he had shot.
If the article is the case, there were some very SERIOUS training problems and policies that got people killed today.
Guess we can't have shotguns for home defense after all, Biden.
DreadPirateMoyer
09-16-13, 21:22
From the article I posted above, I believe he took it off a responding LEO he had shot.
If the article is the case, there were some very SERIOUS training problems and policies that got people killed today.
Understood. Thank you.
Boba Fett v2
09-16-13, 21:32
Tin foil hat zone. Last week Colorado recalls two senators who supported new gun legislation. A week later we have another crazed shooter go ape shit. Coincidence?
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Mauser KAR98K
09-16-13, 21:33
Tin foil hat zone. Last week Colorado recalls two senators who supported new gun legislation. A week later we have another crazed shooter go ape shit. Coincidence?
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Sign of the times.
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 21:40
Sign of the times.
Makes you think....
Chris Dorner.. Former Navy reservist Black Dude who goes on shooting rampage
This dude.. Former Navy reservist Black Dude who goes on shooting rampage, 6 months later.
Statisticaly, that's pretty crazy.
Piers Morgan so far is slamming base security.
He should.
Every time I heard some analogue of "I'm glad you asked that, Hairdo #4; we're talking about a secure facility, here...," from the TV in the office lobby everybody was clustered to wildly speculate and dry-wash their hands, I barked some loud expletive.
The Navy Yard....secure!? I've been there a bunch; secure, my bleeding piles.
From the perspective of Piers and similar do-it-for-me-you-proletarian-swine statists who've gladly ceded their security to people they look down upon, it's a massive failure of their preferred apparatus for such things.
He's right, but not for the reasons he uses to articulate his views...if you can call it articulation. Broken clock, etc.
Seven minutes response time for MPD SWAT response is too ****ing long when you are dealing with an unimpeded shooter. Period. It's not their fault, it's probably the absolute fastest they could get there, but it's still too ****ing long when people are dying.
Our top guys, the varsity face shooting squad(s), change their tactics as their opponents adapt to what they are seeing our guys do to them...
Why doesn't stateside MIL/DOD/GOV? I know most military officers and NCO's would hate to carry a sidearm all day, every day. Quite honestly, I if I were the top general of a particular branch, I would make it happen effective today.
NCO/Officers should have an issued sidearm on their person at all times, while in uniform. Then should be covered under HR218, or similar, for all other times. I would feel 100% more secure if the supposed good guys were all armed, all the time.
I know the logistics make this impossible, and there would be all sorts of gnashing of teeth, but it seems like a no brainer.
Boba Fett v2
09-16-13, 22:15
And Feinstein is at it again
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/feinstein-calls-for-new-gun-control-laws-again-after-navy-yard-shooting/
The blood hadn't even dried on the concrete. Bitch.
This Feinstein bitch knows no bounds. I can't believe she is already trying to manipulate the situation for political gain, but maybe I am just being naive. At least the reports coming out are saying the shooter started with a shotgun, and then picked the AR from a safe or secure location on base, and the pistol from a downed LEO or security guard. It gives her just a little bit less to bitch about. Also, since this was an AR style rifle found on base, I wonder if it was in fact full auto/burst capable?
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 22:35
Sign of the times.
Seven minutes response time for MPD SWAT response is too ****ing long when you are dealing with an unimpeded shooter. Period. It's not their fault, it's probably the absolute fastest they could get there, but it's still too ****ing long when people are dying.
Our top guys, the varsity face shooting squad(s), change their tactics as their opponents adapt to what they are seeing our guys do to them...
Why doesn't stateside MIL/DOD/GOV? I know most military officers and NCO's would hate to carry a sidearm all day, every day. Quite honestly, I if I were the top general of a particular branch, I would make it happen effective today.
NCO/Officers should have an issued sidearm on their person at all times, while in uniform. Then should be covered under HR218, or similar, for all other times. I would feel 100% more secure if the supposed good guys were all armed, all the time.
I know the logistics make this impossible, and there would be all sorts of gnashing of teeth, but it seems like a no brainer.
Any response is too long when you need firepower RIGHT NOW. But I don't blame MPD one bit, in fact they got there pretty fast all things considered. Monday morning, Rush hour, who knows where they were based on of. Call is on a fairly large installation urban wise and its confusing with multiple gunman reports and poor intel.
If anyone is to blame its the Navy/DoD. Starting out with its pathetic DoD/Contractor security forces. I have never even seen anyone with a long gun at any of the gates I have ever gone through. There is supposed to be ERT/QRF at all the installations around NDW to respond to this sort of thing. As soon as that alarm,call comes in, every officer/guard not manning a gate should be high tailing it to the location. Running, you can get anywhere on the WYN within 3 minutes, and that's a light jog.
When an organization/city/state/ect disarm a population and take away their ability to defend themselves, said entity should be responsible for anything that happens. The burden should be on them to keep everyone safe and if they don't, they should be the ones to pay the consequences.
The leaders on both sides do not care about you, me or anyone outside of the protected, elite's class's saftey. We are expendable, replaceable, and not important enough to warrant the cost and resources to protect us. They think that THEIR saftey would be in jeapordy if we could protect ourselves and could carry. They have decided that their lives are more important than ours as a reult. They want us unarmed and unprotected, as that give them all the power. That and the Golden rule.
Golden Rule: The man with the gun gets to make the rules.
Best believe that senior SES/SECNAV,DON,ECT all have armed DoS plaincloths or contractor PSD's. Anytime a congress member or senator comes, they got a few vechicles full of guards.
Mauser KAR98K
09-16-13, 22:51
Any response is too long when you need firepower RIGHT NOW. But I don't blame MPD one bit, in fact they got there pretty fast all things considered. Monday morning, Rush hour, who knows where they were based on of. Call is on a fairly large installation urban wise and its confusing with multiple gunman reports and poor intel.
If anyone is to blame its the Navy/DoD. Starting out with its pathetic DoD/Contractor security forces. I have never even seen anyone with a long gun at any of the gates I have ever gone through. There is supposed to be ERT/QRF at all the installations around NDW to respond to this sort of thing. As soon as that alarm,call comes in, every officer/guard not manning a gate should be high tailing it to the location. Running, you can get anywhere on the WYN within 3 minutes, and that's a light jog.
When an organization/city/state/ect disarm a population and take away their ability to defend themselves, said entity should be responsible for anything that happens. The burden should be on them to keep everyone safe and if they don't, they should be the ones to pay the consequences.
The leaders on both sides do not care about you, me or anyone outside of the protected, elite's class's saftey. We are expendable, replaceable, and not important enough to warrant the cost and resources to protect us. They think that THEIR saftey would be in jeapordy if we could protect ourselves and could carry. They have decided that their lives are more important than ours as a reult. They want us unarmed and unprotected, as that give them all the power. That and the Golden rule.
Golden Rule: The man with the gun gets to make the rules.
Best believe that senior SES/SECNAV,DON,ECT all have armed DoS plaincloths or contractor PSD's. Anytime a congress member or senator comes, they got a few vechicles full of guards.
That is just insane.
Nothing new in policy changed about good guys carrying to ward off crazy-bad guys. Now we have had another "massacre", and the same hyperbole is back on track; disarm rather than fix society.
Tin foil hat zone. Last week Colorado recalls two senators who supported new gun legislation. A week later we have another crazed shooter go ape shit. Coincidence?
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Makes you think....
Chris Dorner.. Former Navy reservist Black Dude who goes on shooting rampage
This dude.. Former Navy reservist Black Dude who goes on shooting rampage, 6 months later.
Statisticaly, that's pretty crazy.
I see your tinfoil, and will wrap on some more-
In passing I stumbled across some news rumors that Bloomberg was going to be passing through the VA area to talk gun "reform" or some bullshit. I figure since we're right next to DC...have a big Navy presence on the coast....
Re, Feinstein- Let's not wait for the whole story now, and just assume he was packing "all the above" pre-rampage so it sounds better on sound-byte. Way to jump ahead of the story to get your two cents worth of political bullshit in everyone's ears before the facts come out. :rolleyes:
TurretGunner
09-16-13, 23:02
That is just insane.
Nothing new in policy changed about good guys carrying to ward off crazy-bad guys. Now we have had another "massacre", and the same hyperbole is back on track; disarm rather than fix society.
The military is probally the most anti-gun federal agency/department there is. You would think a organization that makes its bones using said weapons to destroy people, would be more comfortable with its members protecting themselves.
Even moreso now that we are viable terrorist targets.
All those poor people that died at Ft. Hood, died in Vain. We have learned nothing....
The military is probally the most anti-gun federal agency/department there is. You would think a organization that makes its bones using said weapons to destroy people, would be more comfortable with its members protecting themselves.
Even moreso now that we are viable terrorist targets.
All those poor people that died at Ft. Hood, died in Vain. We have learned nothing....
The military has become the high school science lab for stupid progressive social engineering.
Seven minutes response time for MPD SWAT response is too ****ing long when you are dealing with an unimpeded shooter. Period. It's not their fault, it's probably the absolute fastest they could get there, but it's still too ****ing long when people are dying.
Our top guys, the varsity face shooting squad(s), change their tactics as their opponents adapt to what they are seeing our guys do to them...
Why doesn't stateside MIL/DOD/GOV? I know most military officers and NCO's would hate to carry a sidearm all day, every day. Quite honestly, I if I were the top general of a particular branch, I would make it happen effective today.
NCO/Officers should have an issued sidearm on their person at all times, while in uniform. Then should be covered under HR218, or similar, for all other times. I would feel 100% more secure if the supposed good guys were all armed, all the time.
I know the logistics make this impossible, and there would be all sorts of gnashing of teeth, but it seems like a no brainer.
As an officer, I wouldn't mind carrying even an M4 all the time. Then again, I'm posting on m4carbine.com...
The military has become the high school science lab for stupid progressive social engineering.
Have you sen a great percentage of soldiers? There are a fair numner on WIC, food stamps, etc. Granted, this is more poor money handling choices than lack of salary, but the pay really does suck for most.
While I wouldnt mind carrying ansidearm at work, I cant imagine the logistics of it. Not to mention the massive costs of training, upkeep, certification, etc. Mayne on a voluntary, privately owned firearm basis.
Oh, and I routinely see long arms on our base, but I agree, its pretty rare.
Eurodriver
09-17-13, 05:57
I have a buddy who missed Sergeant because he was NJPd for forgetting his holstered CCW when he went through the main gate at Lejeune and was subject to a random vehicle search.
He even declared it.
****ing nut case policies.
Edit: 7 minutes is ****ing quick. If you are an LEO across the street from a suspicious character call, when the 911 call comes in its going to be at least 2 or 3 minutes before you get dispatched. Here - even longer because it first goes to the county then it goes to the police department. You're looking at 4 solid minutes before the guy on patrol even gets wind of what's going on. By the time he walks across the street the crime has already been committed. Add to that, no LEO is going to into an active shooter situation alone and 7 minutes with SWAT response becomes even more impressive.
...unfortunately, it shouldn't have even been 7 minutes. It should have been 7 seconds.
JBecker 72
09-17-13, 06:21
I find a 7 minute response time by MPD impressive. Yeah it wasn't soon enough, but that's not their fault. DC is a cluster **** to navigate at 8:20 am.
Base security is a joke man. Old, slow guards with m9's.
Little military and long guns. Outside of NCIS there are no real gunners.
Well that's a shame..:(
He's right, but not for the reasons he uses to articulate his views...if you can call it articulation. Broken clock, etc.
Completely agree.
Unbiased journalism is refreshing...:bad:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shots-fired-washington-navy-yard-person-injured-fbi-article-1.1457156
The_War_Wagon
09-17-13, 07:08
...AND Chicken Noodle Network, is THERE! :rolleyes:
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_3868.jpg
Grand58742
09-17-13, 07:20
NBC report that he acquired the M9 and AR from LE he had shot. Started with a shotgun.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Confirmed-Shooter-at-Navy-Yard-One-Person-Shot-223897891.html
You know, it's not going to matter one bit if he got it off a cop or not. The simple fact he used an "AR15" which very well could have been police issued doesn't matter. All that matters is he used an evil assault rifle to murder people. And the little tidbit of information about it possibly being a police issued weapon will be suppressed as it doesn't comply with the standard gun grabbing party line.
"AR15s are dangerous, weapons of war, blah, blah, etc, etc."
That evil bitch Feinstein can and will use whatever propaganda she needs to bury that information as it will not fit into the mold she creates.
Crow Hunter
09-17-13, 07:25
Unbiased journalism is refreshing...:bad:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shots-fired-washington-navy-yard-person-injured-fbi-article-1.1457156
Geez.:rolleyes:
I have heard the term "puff piece" before but this is like the "puff" was a big honking bong first.
Reads like a 1980's Pravda piece. Just switch out AR-15 with "Running Dog Imperial Capitalist Pig".
It is going to be highly entertaining to watch the "gymnastics" if it does turn out that the AR-15 and handgun were taken from security.
I mean if such "high capacity military grade weapons of war" were not available to security forces then they couldn't be taken away and used against everyday people just going to work. This tragedy would never have happened. Security should be armed with only short night sticks/baton that can only stand up to 2 or 3 hits to prevent their weapons from being turned against others.
Only the most trusted members of the Security team should be allowed to carry double barreled shotguns and those should be kept disassembled in a locked cabinet with the ammo stored locked in a separate location on the base with only the 2 most senior officers having the keys. One with the key to the weapons and one with the key to the ammo. That would definitely keep stuff like this from happening.... :rolleyes:
Grand58742
09-17-13, 07:37
NCO/Officers should have an issued sidearm on their person at all times, while in uniform. Then should be covered under HR218, or similar, for all other times. I would feel 100% more secure if the supposed good guys were all armed, all the time.
I know the logistics make this impossible, and there would be all sorts of gnashing of teeth, but it seems like a no brainer.
Institutionally across the military, it's a hard sell. And sadly, this latest incident proves this line of thinking to be the right one even though the brass won't see it that way. All they will see and think about is "shooter took more weapons away from responders and killed more people."
I agree with you 100%, but in typical military knee jerk reaction, they will crack down even more on weapons on post. The idea has been and is being tossed around for random pat down searches (inspections) at installation entry points. The current line of thinking is "we inspect vehicles, but people can carry anything they want on and get by without a problem." So the idea right now is to do what amounts to a Terry frisk on the drivers and passengers of the same vehicles that are getting inspected. Came about in the wake of Fort Hood and I know the legalities were still being worked out, but last I heard it was being pushed forward.
Incidents like this only solidify the resolve of plans like this. And frankly, really bad move in my opinion.
"Earlier information that Alexis may have used a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle may have been incorrect, the sources said. Investigators believe Alexis rented an AR-15 but had returned it before Monday's shootings, the sources said."
"Alexis had an active ID and entered the base legally, a federal law enforcement official said."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/navy-yard-shooting-main/
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-17-13, 07:48
The argument we'll see is that even a trained security guard can have his weapon taken away, so CCWers have no chance. We need to take away CCW guns to protect us all.
How many more times does a guy with mental problems and warning billboards ( not just signs) have to do this before we realize its not the gun that is the problem...
I think the answer is when the turn conservatism into a mental disorder like we have seen in recent stories.
Voodoochild
09-17-13, 08:01
"Earlier information that Alexis may have used a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle may have been incorrect, the sources said. Investigators believe Alexis rented an AR-15 but had returned it before Monday's shootings, the sources said."
"Alexis had an active ID and entered the base legally, a federal law enforcement official said."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/navy-yard-shooting-main/
Exactly how the hell do you rent an AR-15 and return it? Never in my life have I ever heard of that. I know typical fear mongering from the press and total BS.
Exactly how the hell do you rent an AR-15 and return it? Never in my life have I ever heard of that. I know typical fear mongering from the press and total BS.
Rent the AR. Hmmmk.... :rolleyes:
Does that mean they have established he didn't get the AR off security?
Belmont31R
09-17-13, 08:08
Exactly how the hell do you rent an AR-15 and return it? Never in my life have I ever heard of that. I know typical fear mongering from the press and total BS.
Typical anti-gun media who have no clue what the proper terminology or nomenclature or laws are regarding firearms.
Crow Hunter
09-17-13, 08:10
Exactly how the hell do you rent an AR-15 and return it? Never in my life have I ever heard of that. I know typical fear mongering from the press and total BS.
Maybe he went to a gun range and rented one and the press, the great Locus of Ingorance in the US, believe that you can just "rent a gun" like you do a post hole digger at Lowes.
Of course, how the heck would what gun he has rented in the last few days even come up in the initial investigation?
Maybe he didn't use an AR at all? Maybe the press, again, jumped the gun and used the AR-15 because it is the new "AK-47". I remember back in the 1990s every SKS was an AK-47.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-17-13, 08:10
Yeah I can't say I have ever heard of renting an AR-15 and being able to do anything other than shoot it at the range.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-17-13, 08:12
...unfortunately, it shouldn't have even been 7 minutes. It should have been 7 seconds.
Damn, I thought I drew slowly, how deep of concealment do you use?
Fenstein and the Progressives won't stop their stupid crap until they have to pay a price for getting stuff wrong- which will be never because the MSM won't call them on it.
We have a crazy drug problem. Not a gun problem. We have crazy drug laws that create a black market and the violence that comes with it and we have drugs to treat 'crazy' that it seems all the mass shooters are on. Anti-depressants are more common at a mass shootings than Glock handguns...
Eurodriver
09-17-13, 08:21
Damn, I thought I drew slowly, how deep of concealment do you use?
I carry a a matchlock pistol, so I have to light the match first.
The_War_Wagon
09-17-13, 08:37
Hmmm... a "Buddhist who had also had flares of rage"...
http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Navy-Yard-Shooting/2013/09/17/id/526073?promo_code=101DB-1&utm_source=thepeoplescube.com&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1
Not a Christian, Republican, eeeeeeeeeeeeevil Whitey, or Tea Party member... - 'workplace violence' it is then! :rolleyes:
You know, it's not going to matter one bit if he got it off a cop or not.
TODAY SHOW: Tues Morning --- this is true... I'm not making this up
It was one of the ladies... Morales or Guthery... I forgot which one..
He entered the building with a shotgun and acquired the AR15 and handgun inside..... and now back to you guys..
Camera switches to Carson Daily.... I just don't get it, how do you get inside a facility like that with an AR15?!
Al Roker sounded like he going to correct him but got cut off by Geist and Daily.
This took seconds to report the truth ( 5 seconds ) and then totally ignore it for the Liberal agenda.
I wish just one of them could see what they sound and look like. How incompetent they look. I'm pretty sure Al Roker cares about right from wrong no matter which side he chooses but I honestly am not convinced the rest of that entire crew actually even knows... and I think some just flat out don't care.
....and they preach this stuff day after day from 7 or 8 in the morning until noon.
It's no wonder America has been brainwashed.
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 08:42
News is saying he carried an AR and shotgun onto the yard, still incorrect!
Just found out the dude worked for NMCI. Now that makes sense. Anyone who works for the Navy or Marines knows what a cluster **** they are.
Once again, someone who is mentaly ill, who should be locked up in a padded room, is allowed to not only roam the streets, but maintain a clearence and work in what is suposed to be a secured military facility.
There was a time when we locked people up who were sick in the head. It may be considered cruel my modern standards, but it kept them away from society for this very reason. Nature has made these people defective for a reason.
I find a 7 minute response time by MPD impressive. Yeah it wasn't soon enough, but that's not their fault. DC is a cluster **** to navigate at 8:20 am.
I am just using your post to reinforce my overall point, not picking at you individually. :)
Seven minutes is VERY impressive for an active shooter response team to respond for MPD. My point is, if there was a sidearm behind every cup of coffee in that cafeteria, or entrance hall, the response by a huge number of good guys, would have been much sooner.
While there may not be an overwhelming number of combat veterans with direct action experience in that particular building, I bet there were some, maybe even many, and I'm sure they were universally cursing that they might die in an admin building under fire, with jack & shit by which to defend themselves.
I find that completely unacceptable. I mean it's not like we could have learned a lesson from any other shooting incident of this nearly exact mold, right? Nothing in the last decade or so that could have taught us lessons in blood. Nope...not a single one.
Those folks at Ft. Hood died completely in vain. **** these administrative asshats.
montanadave
09-17-13, 08:54
Trying to watch cable news yesterday to gather any information about this tragic event was an exercise in futility.
The news networks, all of them, were so transparent in their efforts to further one political agenda or another that it was impossible to watch without wanting to toss a size 13 through the tube. Whether it was MSNBC beating the anti-gunner drum or Fox News tying themselves in knots trying to portray this as an act of domestic terrorism, the media truly showed their colors. The obvious bias in reporting, coupled with the constant barrage of inaccuracies, was beyond the pale.
I pity the average joe who doesn't have the time or opportunity to seek out multiple sources of information and do their own fact-checking. They are truly ignorant of the world in which we live.
My heart goes out to the family, friends, and coworkers of those killed or injured. Another senseless act of violence by yet another very troubled individual.
Not a Christian, Republican, eeeeeeeeeeeeevil Whitey, or Tea Party member... - 'workplace violence' it is then! :rolleyes:
You clearly don't understand...
a: Terrorism can not take place on American soil by a US citizen. We are not like that.
b: This is Obama's watch
c: This is about the evil AR15
Now get to your TV quickly. You need to set it for NBC from the hours of Midnight to Noon. Then for variety and balance switch to CNN from Noon to Midnight.
You know it funny how the Liberals like to file everything else under one heading. Don't like the color orange? That's a mental illness. Afraid of spiders... mental illness...
Likewise... if you are under government medical supervision and go to a Military facility and kill people it's a firearms problem.
The truth is, this guy is the Obama administration poster person.
Minority
Government healthcare
Veteran
2A supporter - Followed Biden's advice
This simply has Obama's name all over it.
gunrunner505
09-17-13, 09:12
Just saw a report where the FBI said this ass gasket used a shotgun and 2 handguns. One of the handguns may have been taken from a navy yard security guy, still looking into that they say.
Looks like the evil AR15 was not used?
This guy, as someone said previously, had ALL the trademarks of a nut job, was being actively treated for mental illness by the VA. Paranoia, voices in his head, etc. And, he was a discipline problem while in the navy. Talk about a systemic failure.
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
JBecker 72
09-17-13, 09:25
I am just using your post to reinforce my overall point, not picking at you individually. :)
Seven minutes is VERY impressive for an active shooter response team to respond for MPD. My point is, if there was a sidearm behind every cup of coffee in that cafeteria, or entrance hall, the response by a huge number of good guys, would have been much sooner.
While there may not be an overwhelming number of combat veterans with direct action experience in that particular building, I bet there were some, maybe even many, and I'm sure they were universally cursing that they might die in an admin building under fire, with jack & shit by which to defend themselves.
I find that completely unacceptable. I mean it's not like we could have learned a lesson from any other shooting incident of this nearly exact mold, right? Nothing in the last decade or so that could have taught us lessons in blood. Nope...not a single one.
Those folks at Ft. Hood died completely in vain. **** these administrative asshats.
I agree completely. Disarming those best trained to handle a situation like this properly makes 0 sense.
JBecker 72
09-17-13, 09:26
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
Yeah I ordered another complete upper and 15 mags from BCM yesterday afternoon.
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 09:29
I am just using your post to reinforce my overall point, not picking at you individually. :)
Seven minutes is VERY impressive for an active shooter response team to respond for MPD. My point is, if there was a sidearm behind every cup of coffee in that cafeteria, or entrance hall, the response by a huge number of good guys, would have been much sooner.
While there may not be an overwhelming number of combat veterans with direct action experience in that particular building, I bet there were some, maybe even many, and I'm sure they were universally cursing that they might die in an admin building under fire, with jack & shit by which to defend themselves.
I find that completely unacceptable. I mean it's not like we could have learned a lesson from any other shooting incident of this nearly exact mold, right? Nothing in the last decade or so that could have taught us lessons in blood. Nope...not a single one.
Those folks at Ft. Hood died completely in vain. **** these administrative asshats.
The only "combat vets" in that building were prior service Marines or Army who are now Civil Servants or Contractors. That building is full of nerds and admin types. The Navy personal in there are not exactly what you would call hardened warriors.
"Among President Clinton’s first acts upon taking office in 1993 was to disarm U.S. soldiers on military bases. In March 1993, the Army imposed regulations forbidding military personnel from carrying their personal firearms and making it almost impossible for commanders to issue firearms to soldiers in the U.S. for personal protection."
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
Ammo or rifles or pistols or?
The only "combat vets" in that building were prior service Marines or Army who are now Civil Servants or Contractors. That building is full of nerds and admin types. The Navy personal in there are not exactly what you would call hardened warriors.
Why is it that reading comprehension is so difficult?
There are several thousand people there on a permanent basis, and many others there transacting business daily.
I happen to know several folks who were OIF/OEF vets, saw direct action, and have business at NAVSEA on a daily/regular basis. Gladly, not yesterday.
There are people there who are hard mother****ers who transitioned to nerd life as a way to provide very well for their families -- even if it was 10 guys out of 1,000...
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 10:00
Why is it that reading comprehension is so difficult?
There are several thousand people there on a permanent basis, and many others there transacting business daily.
I happen to know several folks who were OIF/OEF vets, saw direct action, and have business at NAVSEA on a daily/regular basis. Gladly, not yesterday.
There are people there who are hard mother****ers who transitioned to nerd life as a way to provide very well for their families -- even if it was 10 guys out of 1,000...
They are the extreame minority. I see the same folks your talking about milling around the yard in their multi-cam or 5.11 gear.
EDIT: I was not disagreeing with you, just elaborating.
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
Just when things were SLOWLY beginning to normalize. Go figure.
It's been a while since I've held clearance, but how does a guy with criminal history get one. According to the news he was busted in OR for shooting out his neighbors tires. In DFW for shooting through his floor into a neighbors unit and again at a third location for shooting through another wall. Was dismissed from the Naval Reserves for being a problem. How in Gods name can that guy get a clearance to work at a Naval facility? The inmates really are running the asylum.
And then did all this crap ??
Can an LEO explain this one to me:
"Alexis was also arrested in mid-2004 for shooting out the tires of a car owned by a construction worker who purportedly “mocked him.” Alexis told cops that an anger-fueled “black out” prompted the shooting. Alexis’s father told investigators that his son suffered from “anger management problems”
All the other events I can sort-kinda-see how they didn't result in felony charges, but the above? I don't know the laws of the state that happened, but is that not assault with a deadly weapon? Arrested for, but not charged? Something amiss here no? It may be simply the media getting their facts all wrong, but it seems this guy (per usual of the ilk) gave a long history of reasons and chances to lose his access legal to fire arms and didn't.
Per usual, adequate laws existed here to possibly prevent this, or at least prevent his access to legal firearms. Obviously, if he was intent on getting fire arms through non legal means, or simply using something else to kill people, he could have done so, but that's another topic.
Assuming the media has that story correct, what would the charges be in your jurisdiction and would a conviction = losing his fire arms access?
With all due respect . Is the shooter another one of Obamas sons ,Looks like one .
Eurodriver
09-17-13, 10:29
Just when things were SLOWLY beginning to normalize. Go figure.
It's been a while since I've held clearance, but how does a guy with criminal history get one. According to the news he was busted in OR for shooting out his neighbors tires. In DFW for shooting through his floor into a neighbors unit and again at a third location for shooting through another wall. Was dismissed from the Naval Reserves for being a problem. How in Gods name can that guy get a clearance to work at a Naval facility? The inmates really are running the asylum.
What type of clearance did he hold?
Damn near everyone has a Secret these days. In fact, I only know of one guy who it was denied to and that's only because by the time the investigation got in full swing he was in the brig for sleeping with a 15 year old girl. His name was "Trevon" but he pronounced it Tray-von oddly enough. Not kidding.
If he was a screwup and had a TS or SCI clearance then we're all ****ed.
I'll cop to having contributed to the "ammo" side of the market, yesterday... :p
SHIVAN, this isn't to impugn any individuals, but TG's essentially got the right of it in terms of personality types and the generally, staggeringly low ratio of meat-eaters that work at these sorts of places. Just because guys like us mostly know or most strongly identify with those types of folks...doesn't increase their actual numbers.
The Navy Yard is a ceremonial and admin center for the Navy. NavSea is a primary tenant, they do procurement, not unlike SysCom aboard Quantico, though on a larger scale. Logisticians, acquisition analysts, budget analysts, IT, and related. Those that do have something of the Mean Gene in them are hilariously outnumbered.
Totally different "culture" than a facility with combat-arms tenants like Ft Hood, where Hasan had unarmed people at least making the attempt to take him down pretty much immediately.
We had a discussion about something along these lines, here at the office. Of the whole building, where about 400 or so people work, there's maybe 10-12 folks who are primed by nature and experience to run toward the sound of gunfire and are just generally grumpy on a good day (disclaimer: bearing in mind that it's functionally impossible to predict who from the general civilian population is gonna be the hero, and who the goat, when situations like this jump up.). Most are on the 3rd floor, and that's because prior-service folks that support combat-arms programs, no surprise, tend to come from combat-arms MOSs.
I can absolutely tell you that the cruel irony of NO weapons being allowed in the posession of folks that support Infantry Weapons programs has not been lost, so...yeah, cursing.
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
I started it :) on 9/11, bought 3 boxes for comrade putin's Tula .45acp.
Anybody want to panic buy my Daniel Defense M4? $8000. hehe :p
Belmont31R
09-17-13, 11:18
A lot of charges don't result in criminal convictions or are deferred for community service or whatever. Plead down.
A charge doesn't equal a conviction. People on the news can't seem to figure that out.
I have seen someone lose their clearance on a review in the middle of deployment. Racked up credit issues and they yanked it. Rest of the deployment he ended up doing bs like escorting local workers. Couldn't touch our comms equipment.
Can an LEO explain this one to me:
"Alexis was also arrested in mid-2004 for shooting out the tires of a car owned by a construction worker who purportedly “mocked him.” Alexis told cops that an anger-fueled “black out” prompted the shooting. Alexis’s father told investigators that his son suffered from “anger management problems”
All the other events I can sort-kinda-see how they didn't result in felony charges, but the above? I don't know the laws of the state that happened, but is that not assault with a deadly weapon? Arrested for, but not charged? Something amiss here no? It may be simply the media getting their facts all wrong, but it seems this guy (per usual of the ilk) gave a long history of reasons and chances to lose his access legal to fire arms and didn't.
Per usual, adequate laws existed here to possibly prevent this, or at least prevent his access to legal firearms. Obviously, if he was intent on getting fire arms through non legal means, or simply using something else to kill people, he could have done so, but that's another topic.
Assuming the media has that story correct, what would the charges be in your jurisdiction and would a conviction = losing his fire arms access?
The primary issue I have seen over the years is liberal judges who are soft on violent offenders. At the very least Alexis should have been indicated as a mental health recipient who was a violent risk. The courts have a lot of power to deal with problems like this, but in many instances judges who want to give someone a second, third, fourth...thirteenth chance won't do anything about it. Unfortunately society pays, sometimes with their lives.
If he did have a felony conviction, he would not be able to legally possess a firearm. That doesn't necessarily mean he could not get his hands on a weapon. He also should have lost his security clearance and access to NAVSEASYSCOM.
Did he get killed or kill himself?
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
Can ya blame anyone for the mentality. Things were just headed back towards "normal" and suddenly Barack, Feinstein, and the whole crowd are back on TV calling for some "common sense gun control."
Apparently, taking a downed officers AR can be prevented by preventing civilians from owning them... Of course people are going to snap up some items just to hedge against the grabbers getting their way this time.
Belmont31R
09-17-13, 11:54
Don't know if there's any connection but just something to think about...the DOJ is going around suing people because they didn't hire a black person with a criminal history.
The primary issue I have seen over the years is liberal judges who are soft on violent offenders. At the very least Alexis should have been indicated as a mental health recipient who was a violent risk. The courts have a lot of power to deal with problems like this, but in many instances judges who want to give someone a second, third, fourth...thirteenth chance won't do anything about it. Unfortunately society pays, sometimes with their lives.
If he did have a felony conviction, he would not be able to legally possess a firearm. That doesn't necessarily mean he could not get his hands on a weapon. He also should have lost his security clearance and access to NAVSEASYSCOM.
So a trace back of his behavior and ongoing involvement with the law will show he fell through the cracks due to the human factor, adequate laws existed that could have made the difference, and cries for more gun control will be the result. Got it. :bad:
whiterabbit05
09-17-13, 11:55
Now it's being reported that he didn't even have an AR, nonetheless an "automatic" one.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooting-aaron-alexis-washington/2824793/
"Contrary to earlier reports provided by law enforcement officials, Alexis was not believed to be in possession of an AR-15 rifle."
thopkins22
09-17-13, 12:00
Folks, where he got it will be irrelevant to the argument they're going to make. They're going to point to the carnage, point to the fact that they're legal for civilians to own/buy, and then ask why would you want something capable of this?
The fact that someone could ambush officers for their firearms with damn near anything probably isn't lost on them...it's just exhibit D of what those evil guns do.
Now it's being reported that he didn't even have an AR, nonetheless an "automatic" one.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooting-aaron-alexis-washington/2824793/
"Contrary to earlier reports provided by law enforcement officials, Alexis was not believed to be in possession of an AR-15 rifle."
Fox just said the same thing, quoting the FBI..."no AR15 recovered at the scene. Just the shotgun and a pistol".
FBI news conference in an hour.
Someone needs to organize a 'fact vs fiction' graphic based on the FBI press conference and post it all over social media. Piers Morgan et al need to be called on their bullshit 'reporting'. :mad:
Someone needs to organize a 'fact vs fiction' graphic based on the FBI press conference and post it all over social media. Piers Morgan et al need to be called on their bullshit 'reporting'. :mad:
I don't think they're very concerned about fact vs fiction. They just want headlines and to push their anti-gun agenda.
I know they're not. But they'll continue to get emboldened unless confronted. But you're right, I doubt they care.
Someone needs to organize a 'fact vs fiction' graphic based on the FBI press conference and post it all over social media. Piers Morgan et al need to be called on their bullshit 'reporting'. :mad:
If someone makes it, I'll post it on my FB page.
"We believe that Mr. Alexis entered bldg. 197 at the Navy Yard with a shotgun. We do not have any information at this time that he had an AR-15 in his possession." - FBI conference
They said something to the effect, but I didn't get the exact quote, that he obtained a handgun once inside the building.
Also confirmed that he entered Navy Yard using his CAC, and was a cleared contractor. He was killed in a gunfight, he didn't kill himself.
Shotgun used was purchased lawfully in VA.
gunrunner505
09-17-13, 13:13
Can ya blame anyone for the mentality. Things were just headed back towards "normal" and suddenly Barack, Feinstein, and the whole crowd are back on TV calling for some "common sense gun control."
Apparently, taking a downed officers AR can be prevented by preventing civilians from owning them... Of course people are going to snap up some items just to hedge against the grabbers getting their way this time.
I think this one clearly shows that it's a human issue, not a gun issue.
Here's a guy who is an historic trouble maker with a well documented history of discipline and mental issues as well as encounters with law enforcement who goes off the reservation and pulls this nonsense. Why was this guy not in jail for his prior transgressions, or under much closer psychiatric care at the very least?
This is a system failure, and no law, past, present or future, would have done anything to prevent this guy from pulling this.
Per the FBI news conference, watching it now, he entered the first building with a shotgun. Biden should be pleased.... The FBI said they have no information at this time to indicate he had a AR with him at any time. They think he may have gained access to a handgun somewhere along the line but did not elaborate.(Koshinn types faster than me....drat)
I bought 1000 rounds of 223 last night.....
Prayers to all those impacted and their families in this horrible time
SHIVAN, this isn't to impugn any individuals, but TG's essentially got the right of it in terms of personality types and the generally, staggeringly low ratio of meat-eaters that work at these sorts of places. Just because guys like us mostly know or most strongly identify with those types of folks...doesn't increase their actual numbers.
We are not in disagreement. Though I would rather have the security guards and five red meat eaters carrying concealed sidearms, for no other reason but "because they can"....
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 13:23
We are not in disagreement. Though I would rather have the security guards and five red meat eaters carrying concealed sidearms, for no other reason but "because they can"....
Just saw on Facebook that NAVFAC:
UPDATE: Federal Law Enforcement Agencies will determine when privately owned vehicles will be allowed to depart the Washington Navy Yard. People should plan on at least 48 hours, potentially 19 September, that they will not be able to drive their vehicle. Access to collect personal items may potentially be arranged for parking garages 386 and 405 on Wednesday, 18 September. Those in Parking Garage 28 and the surrounding area must consider a potentially longer duration. If Federal Law Enforcement Agencies allow privately owned vehicle departure sooner, immediate notification will be released by all available means.
This is a shit show. People are stranded at home without their vehicles. I have co-workers who live alone, have 1 vic, and some live over an hour away. How are they supposed to get there and back,ect? They are now stranded at home with no transportation.
thopkins22
09-17-13, 13:26
Made the mistake of pausing to listen to MSNBC as I was scrolling.
The guy literally said, "The NRA is trying to tell us that we should be arming people in schools, but the lesson here and at Ft. Hood is that these things happen where there are thousands of armed people."
Such utter BS. I mean bold faced lying...not just the emotional appeals that normally exist.
If ammo becomes as bad as it was last time, I'm just going to go the bubba route and stop shooting.
No sense in having a hobby if you can't do it.
If ammo becomes as bad as it was last time, I'm just going to go the bubba route and stop shooting.
No sense in having a hobby if you can't do it.
Come on man don't think like that.
Dry fire bud. I honestly haven't shot very much this year but have dry fired like a mad man. If anything my weapons manipulations have improved quite a bit.
Not many 'hobbys' have the capacity to save lives in the unseeable future.
-Jax
If ammo becomes as bad as it was last time, I'm just going to go the bubba route and stop shooting.
No sense in having a hobby if you can't do it.
Same here man, and to think more panic buying will occur when I move to a free state with a good paying job. :rolleyes:
And to know this comes about only hours after people were murdered. That is such a same Feinstein jumps on every opportunity she..er he...uh.. :confused: it gets..
I, however, honestly think this will not cause a huge panic buy again.
If ammo becomes as bad as it was last time, I'm just going to go the bubba route and stop shooting.
No sense in having a hobby if you can't do it.
Which is exactly what the antis are going for... Just small steps to their overall goal.
Grand58742
09-17-13, 14:54
***edit to keep thread on track***
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 14:56
Can we save the panic buying BS for another thread.
Keep info related to the security, the yard, the shooting, the shooter and their families.
platoonDaddy
09-17-13, 14:57
I heard the press conference live and when she stated: no AR I almost shit. The friggin state run media, had me convinced he used an AR, yes I should have know better.
The rush to proclaim details with no accurate knowledge is rampant. What ever happened to careful honest reporting? Now it seems to just be a mad dash to gain viewers.
As others have noted, reports now say that a shotgun was initially used and then a handgun was taken from an officer who was shot. CNN said that the shooter was found with a shotgun and 2 handguns... No AR15. They are not sure where the second handgun came from.
Last night on Piers Morgan, he claimed that it was a fact that the shooter had bought an AR15 in Virginia and transported across state lines to DC. One of his guests pointed out that he was jumping to conclusions and Piers insisted that it was a known fact. What an ass!:angry:
Grand58742
09-17-13, 14:59
Why is it that reading comprehension is so difficult?
There are several thousand people there on a permanent basis, and many others there transacting business daily.
I happen to know several folks who were OIF/OEF vets, saw direct action, and have business at NAVSEA on a daily/regular basis. Gladly, not yesterday.
There are people there who are hard mother****ers who transitioned to nerd life as a way to provide very well for their families -- even if it was 10 guys out of 1,000...
I think Heraclitus said it best:
“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”
We are not in disagreement. Though I would rather have the security guards and five red meat eaters carrying concealed sidearms, for no other reason but "because they can"....
I'm tracking.
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 15:37
I'm tracking.
Most of us would carry if we could. I sure as hell would.
Truth is, No one is going to risk their clearence, career and a felony carrying in one of these places illegally.
No sure if anyone has posted this yet....
News report..... NBC 5:00PM
Went to shooting range Sunday
Lorton, VA - Sharpshooters Small Arms Range
Rented and shot gun. Then purchased a shotgun with background check and 24 shells.
FBI indicates no use of AR15.
No sure if anyone has posted this yet....
News report..... NBC 5:00PM
Went to shooting range Sunday
Lorton, VA - Sharpshooters Small Arms Range
Rented and shot gun. Then purchased a shotgun with background check and 24 shells.
FBI indicates no use of AR15.
"Then its official, background checks don't work, AR15 aren't the only evil gun......guess they should ban them all" - avg authoritarian politician posing as a liberal
No only that.... he was unable to produce VA State ID, so he was not allowed to purchase a handgun. We have a State level check.
He was then run through the Federal Background check system for the Biden approved shotgun. He passed the Federal check, even though he was under medical care for Paranoia by Federal doctors ( through the VA system ).
Doesn't this basically amount to a universal background check?
If Obama was doing background checks, it would look like the background check that the terrorist murderer Aaron Alexis got.
Aaron Alexis murdered people in Obama's Military in Obama's back yard, after having an Obama style background check.
At least that's what it looks like to me.
Sandy Hook alliance is boarding bus for DC by the way just so people know. They may already be there.
This incident may be the catalyst for linking mental health treatment to background checks.
....and/or waiting periods, just for starters.
Everybody keep their green poker/letter-writing visors handy for he next wave of legislators scrambling to make it appear as if they're Doing Something.
So how many SSRI's was this nut on??
So how many SSRI's was this nut on??
Not enough it would appear. :help:
This incident may be the catalyst for linking mental health treatment to background checks.
YEah and we will see a real witch hunt....
One pushed by the Firearms community.
That should hit a HIPA roadblock.
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 18:20
That should hit a HIPA roadblock.
Not really. Some states are already doing this... Virginia and Maryland among them.
Not really. Some states are already doing this... Virginia and Maryland among them.
Yep. I foresee me personally and many others like me having my firearms rights removed forcibly by the government with backing from most other gun owners.
platoonDaddy
09-17-13, 18:37
This incident may be the catalyst for linking mental health treatment to background checks.
Mid 2K, son was in a REALLY bad accident and spent 6 months in R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center. Visited my local doctor for something to help with the nerves and he said "you know if I prescribe anything, it will be on your record." Thanked him and forced myself to adaptive and overcome. Have told him many times, thank you doc!
Not enough it would appear. :help:
Well considering their side effects, I'd say he was on the correct dosage.
TurretGunner
09-17-13, 18:58
Yep. I foresee me personally and many others like me having my firearms rights removed forcibly by the government with backing from most other gun owners.
Its a slippery slope.
Personaly, If someone is free and in society, they should have all rights.
Goes from mental illness, to criminal history, whatever.
If they are deemed safe enough to be members of society, then all of their rights should be restored in full. What we have now is different classes of citizens out on the streets and people ignoring the problems because they can. People who will allways be apart of the problem beacuse they are not allowed to assimilate to society and have little/no real chance of leading a productive life.
If they cannot function in society and/or are too much of a threat to be free.......Than institutionalization or euthanasian.
Panic buying has commenced (FYI).
C4
JFC!
Already guys? You mean there's still people out there that don't own a gun/ammo/etc. given the recent feeding frenzy? Geez....:blink:
This is a plot by the gun industry I tells ya! Just stick Feinsteins face on the TV, and sales soar! :p
Someone needs to organize a 'fact vs fiction' graphic based on the FBI press conference and post it all over social media. Piers Morgan et al need to be called on their bullshit 'reporting'. :mad:
I don't think they're very concerned about fact vs fiction. They just want headlines and to push their anti-gun agenda.
Bingo!
The rush to proclaim details with no accurate knowledge is rampant. What ever happened to careful honest reporting? Now it seems to just be a mad dash to gain viewers.
.........:
Sensationalism has returned full swing. Just like back in the olden days...
I Mean would it REALLY hurt them to run a quick "breaking news, blah blah blah, stay tuned we'll be back this evening with updates. That way they can actually take some time to, you know, actually get the story right? Nowadays it seems like a rush to break the story and spit out as many conjured theories as possible, until the facts (or at least an "official" report) come out a day later. But by then they've already embarassed themselves all over the place, and the hilarity of it is they apparently don't even care they got it wrong! They just roll on with the next iteration of the story, still completely clueless and completely wrong :rolleyes:
I swear, if I didn't already think the news was pure disinformation and propaganda, after the last year... it's undeniable.
YEah and we will see a real witch hunt....
One pushed by the Firearms community.
Just like last time you mean?
Are we going to revisit the "add everything to NFA!" angle this time too?
(sorry guys, but it was rather memorable)
ForTehNguyen
09-17-13, 19:09
more govt incompentence for not locking this guy up for many previous incidents, still giving him security clearance, neutering military armed guards on military bases
so lets get more govt
Not really. Some states are already doing this... Virginia and Maryland among them.
I must have mis-understood you... what is VA doing towards investigating mental illness? I live in VA too and I haven't heard this one.
Eurodriver
09-17-13, 19:23
Mid 2K, son was in a REALLY bad accident and spent 6 months in R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center. Visited my local doctor for something to help with the nerves and he said "you know if I prescribe anything, it will be on your record." Thanked him and forced myself to adaptive and overcome. Have told him many times, thank you doc!
And this is the problem.
I know many...many people, mostly OIF vets, who have refused treatments (whether holistic or medicinal) because:
It means you're weak
It will hurt your promotion chances
It goes on your "record"
Prevents you from getting TS/SCI
So CNN is making a big deal out of how this shooter went to a gun range prior to the shooting....
How long till you think they try and pass a bill against rental guns at ranges?
That should hit a HIPA roadblock.
HIPAA protections may not apply if disclosure is in the interest of "imminent threat to public safety." I can see individuals and govt agencies suing to disclose the the psychiatric history of these mass shooters. There may be some big money to be made in a class action suit against pharmaceutical companies.
jerrysimons
09-17-13, 20:26
Despite all our learning, medical professionals barely understand mental illness, nevermind popular perception. The easy deflection for gun rights is to blame mental health system inadeqacies.
The easy "solution" for the antis is to categorically deny mental health clients their right on account of any sort of mental health treatment. I have read drafted bills in Illinois that would effectivly make this very change to the FOID card system. You literally could not posses a firearm if you voluntarily saw a counselor, let alone took prescribed anti-depressants (there is a differance between antidepressants and antipsychotics).
This is more chilling to me than an AWB. And so many of us so flippantly toss it out there.
Despite all our learning, medical professionals barely understand mental illness, nevermind popular perception. The easy deflection for gun rights is to blame mental health system inadeqacies.
The easy "solution" for the antis is to categorically deny mental health clients their right on account of any sort of mental health treatment. I have read drafted bills in Illinois that would effectivly make this very change to the FOID card system. You literally could not posses a firearm if you voluntarily saw a counselor, let alone took prescribed anti-depressants (there is a differance between antidepressants and antipsychotics).
This is more chilling to me than an AWB. And so many of us so flippantly toss it out there.
Thats ridiculous. Anti depressants are used for more than just depression. Fibromyalgia, menopause symptoms, anxiety, etc. Love when lawyers try to play doctor. Stay in their own lane :mad:
You literally could not posses a firearm if you voluntarily saw a counselor, let alone took prescribed anti-depressants (there is a differance between antidepressants and antipsychotics).
Having an actual diagnosis code consistent with anxiety/depression is different that taking anti-depressants, for example. I'd love to see the documentation on this. I doubt that medication lists are or will be used in assessing one's mental health.
http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/matt-vespa/if-we-had-ammunition-we-could-ve-cleared-building-son-navy-yard-told-dad
I predict a War on Mental Illness and First Person Shooter Video games. AKA- another front in the war on the Constitution.
Buy some mor sink and paper and keep the letter writing going. We need to somehow leverage the Colorado recalls to subtly remind our elected officials that there are consequences to not following the will of their employers.
At what point should a person be indicated in the mental health system and be denied the ability to purchase a firearm?
At what point should a person be indicated in the mental health system and be denied the ability to purchase a firearm?
They shouldn't. This would not be an issue if peasants were not disarmed.
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jerrysimons
09-17-13, 23:21
At what point should a person be indicated in the mental health system and be denied the ability to purchase a firearm?
I think the current law pretty much covers it. Adjudicated mentally defective by a court of law, not guilty by way of insanity, incompetent to manage your own affairs, etc. States that don't report the relevant court records to NCIS keep current laws from being as effective, but the laws we already have I don't think need to be added upon.
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