Me likey...Budget Attack Jet

[Gutshot John]

Kind of looks like an F-15's baby brother at 1/10th the hourly operating cost of an F-16.

I wonder if they'd consider making a civilian-legal version? :)

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/tech/innovation/new-scorpion-attack-jet/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[El Vaquero]

Interesting concept. Now if those were unmanned.... Article didnt say anything about that. Kinda looks more F-14ish with broad tail fins and fully extended wings.

[Caduceus]

Looks like an F-22 had a night of shennanigans with a U-2. But, very interestung concept and possible role for it.

[Abraxas]

Looks like an F-22 had a night of shennanigans with a U-2. But, very interestung concept and possible role for it.

Where is the like button

[JBecker 72]

Where's the civi version?

[Tzed250]

Low altitude moonshine still and pot field interdiction...

[Dienekes]

I still like the Folland Gnat of the 1950s...

[kwelz]

Kind of like a modern day F5..

[Todd.K]

Trying to sell CAS to the AF? This should be fun...

[Hunter Rose]

Kind of like a modern day F5..

And like the F-5 it will never be adopted by the USAF. Nice idea and makes sense, but not going to happen.

[Kokopelli]

I like that.. Sorta looks like an Crusader nose and cockpit, a Tomcat fuselage and a Advark wing.. all but tiny..

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Looks cool, I'd rather have an OV-10X

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/Technical/boeing_ov-10(x)_super_bronco_info_card_2009_01.pdf

[crusader377]

Kind of looks like an F-15's baby brother at 1/10th the hourly operating cost of an F-16.

I wonder if they'd consider making a civilian-legal version? :)

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/tech/innovation/new-scorpion-attack-jet/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Cool idea and I think a light affordable coin aircraft definitely has a place in the USAF but it is never going to happen. The Pentagon is obsessed with the F-35 and are cutting large numbers of useful aircraft like the F-15C, A-10, B-1B etc.. along with scaling back future programs like the NGB in order to fund that white elephant. There is no way an aircraft like this will go anywhere no matter how affordable or capable it may be. Also, it is not built by the normal corporate welfare queens of the defense industry and has no political backing.

[HES]

All I gotta do is win the PowerBall tomorrow night

[Grand58742]

Novel concept, but looks to be pretty limited on ordnance load for a CAS type.

No unit coast available right now according to an Aviation Week article. $3000 an hour maintenance cost which isn't too bad, but when compared to the Super Tucano with roughly the same ordnance load at $500 an hour seems pricey. And the only thing this Scorpion has on the Tucano is speed so far. But overall it does appear to follow the LAAR parameters, but with no official RFP, Textron is kind of guessing at it.

It'll be interesting to see if this one "flies" (no pun intended) with allied and friendly forces. Survivability would have to be in the forefront of any design these days, especially one performing CAS, recon and interdiction type missions. But cost versus benefit, most friendly foreign air forces without a major need for speed would probably look towards a prop type since maintenance would be easier and costs would be kept down.

Just not seeing the USAF even for the ANG look into it seriously. Another air frame type that will cut into the F-35 budget? That'll fly like a lead balloon (pun intended this time).

[Gutshot John]

Honestly I don't care what the military applications are. They should be self-evident. Isn't the Tucano a prop? I'm not a pilot but I presume that makes it cheaper to operate.

Mostly I just want one.

[Grand58742]

Honestly I don't care what the military applications are. They should be self-evident. Isn't the Tucano a prop? I'm not a pilot but I presume that makes it cheaper to operate.

Mostly I just want one.

Meh, if you're going to go, go big:

http://www.raptoraviation.com/aircraft%20spec%20pages/Mig29.html

[Gutshot John]

Meh, if you're going to go, go big:

http://www.raptoraviation.com/aircraft%20spec%20pages/Mig29.html

Way more than I need.

Maintenance costs on Mig29s are obscene, nevermind you'd have to import every part you'd ever need (way more paperwork than I'd want). Of course I'd never trust my life to anything built, let alone designed during the Soviet era.

An "inexpensive" jet as described in the OP, that looks cool, is "reasonable" to operate (half the hourly cost of a G5), and will turn a few heads would be awesome if I ever won the lottery...of course that all assumes that they'd make a civilian model.

[jaxman7]

Looks cool, I'd rather have an OV-10X

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/Technical/boeing_ov-10(x)_super_bronco_info_card_2009_01.pdf

Always loved the OV-10. Sort of a modern version of the P-61.

-Jax

[Army Chief]

Kind of like a modern day F5..

Didn't bother to mention it earlier, but my thoughts tracked along very similar lines. I suspect this machine will see some market successes abroad, but will likely be shunned by our own Air Force because it doesn't conform to any particular package of requirements that they created.

Role-wise, until the performance characteristics of the jet are really quantified, it is hard to know how well it might augment or replace anything already in service, anyway. Even with the obvious efficiencies involved, you still have the acquisition, fielding and maintenance/contract costs to consider, which might be a significant hurdle in the current environment.

Of course, I might not have read closely-enough, as I suspect Textron would have already tried to account for these variables, but I suspect this one is destined to remain a cool concept that will ultimately wear the war paint of a few nations other than our own.

AC

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

My guess is that the future of COIN/CAS aircraft, especially when we have complete air superiority, is something loitering above and controlling some drones to direct attack. The aircraft would be able to directly act with larger ordinance or guns. I've never seen a drone with guns.

To me the real question is if a piloted aircraft is still going to be around for these roles. A manned aircraft can't be jammed and is a brilliant weapon versus just a smart one.

Coming out with the best COIN manned aircraft ever may be like having the best propeller airplane in 1946- technology is going to rapidly replace you.

[Koshinn]

My guess is that the future of COIN/CAS aircraft, especially when we have complete air superiority, is something loitering above and controlling some drones to direct attack. The aircraft would be able to directly act with larger ordinance or guns. I've never seen a drone with guns.

To me the real question is if a piloted aircraft is still going to be around for these roles. A manned aircraft can't be jammed and is a brilliant weapon versus just a smart one.

Coming out with the best COIN manned aircraft ever may be like having the best propeller airplane in 1946- technology is going to rapidly replace you.

So something like an AWACS.


What if it was like an AWACS, but it was a blimp with basically infinite loiter time. It could even launch and recover drones!

[crusader377]

I think this is far more likely to change things up with U.S. military aviation especially if Boeing and Saab can set up a U.S. production line and build it inexpensively enough.

Boeing and Saab offering JAS 39E Gripen for T-X competition (replace T-38 trainer)

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_09_11_2013_p0-615489.xml

[Grand58742]

My guess is that the future of COIN/CAS aircraft, especially when we have complete air superiority, is something loitering above and controlling some drones to direct attack. The aircraft would be able to directly act with larger ordinance or guns. I've never seen a drone with guns.

To me the real question is if a piloted aircraft is still going to be around for these roles. A manned aircraft can't be jammed and is a brilliant weapon versus just a smart one.

Coming out with the best COIN manned aircraft ever may be like having the best propeller airplane in 1946- technology is going to rapidly replace you.

To me, yes. You have to remember the USAF is still fighter pilots domain and they would sign off on unmanned transports before losing the single seat mission. While unmanned aircraft have increased exponentially over the past decade, the CAS/COIN mission will probably still be manned especially if the LAAR program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance) ever gets funded or a serious RFP goes out.

[HackerF15E]

This isn't the first time some grand low-cost warplane idea from outside the industry has come...and gone. My prediction is that it ends up forgotten in a bottom drawer somwhere.

The problem I usually see with these ideas is that they come from designers and builders with zero real-world experience in the mission areas which they are designing an aircraft to fill. They are more interested in "cool ideas" than actually designing an aircraft to well perform a specific mission (or missions).

Back about 2003, the designer of the Javelin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATG_Javelin) was standing next to the mock up at the Reno Air Races. I asked him some simple questions about both actual and intended capabilities and performance. When pressed, he had no idea what specific capabilities made a good trainer or fighter, nor any idea what the capabilities of the current aircraft filling those roles were. Most importantly, he didn't have any idea what the deficiencies of those aircraft were, and how the Javelin could theoretically do any of it better.

All they had was a slick bar-napkin design and a whole bunch of platitudes about what it could theoretically do if it were ever built. When I read the article on the Scorpion in the OP, it reads a lot like things that were written and said about the Javelin.

If you are somewhat knowledgeable about combat aircraft and have an hour to kill, check out the following movie, called "The Defender". It is about a guy who had an idea about a home-grown air defense fighter as an alternative to the Canadians buying/licensing the CF-18 Hornet from the US. A "low cost alternative" as it may be. Sound familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvbQMqd0kEY

If you laugh uncontrollably throughout the movie, then you get it. If not...well....

[Hunter Rose]

This plane is DOA to the USAF/ANG. It's a fiscally contracting environment and the USAF is wedded to the F-35 for better or worse. While some niche aircraft have been adopted in small numbers like the MC-12, it's not to be for this one. The LAAR concept & cheap CAS/COIN aircraft was floated to HAF in the form of the AT-6 during the height of Iraq/Afghanistan and ran into a brick wall. With the strategic pivot to the Pacific, CAS/COIN relevancy is waaay low on the list of Air Force priorities.

Additionally, ANG will never procure this. As F-35 comes on line retired F-16s will update ANG inventories. Realize ANG units still fly B-model F-16s.

Any hopes this plane has is with foreign sales.