View Full Version : Removing dimpled style castle nut off of SR15 (or how I destroyed the wrench)
RadioActivity
09-18-13, 01:02
So it has come to this...
I snapped the nub on the shitty DPMS wrench. No surprise there.
The surprise was that after destroying two of the four holes by trying to use a punch and hammer (and flowing the metal into a teardrop shape) that sucker hasn't budged. I want to leave the option of something to grab so I haven't attempted on the other two holes.
I guess some heat would help, but its not really an area I'd like to apply much heat to (grip area near by, small springs, etc). There is a substance that seems it was applied to the threads, sometime of thread locker maybe?
I need to try some penetrating oil, and some heat. At this point the only option I really have is a punch. What am I doing wrong?
Have I missed anything?
Search the site and you will see that KAC applies Loctite to those castle nuts. You are going to need to break the 271 (IIRC) first.
So it has come to this...
I snapped the nub on the shitty DPMS wrench. No surprise there.
The surprise was that after destroying two of the four holes by trying to use a punch and hammer (and flowing the metal into a teardrop shape) that sucker hasn't budged. I want to leave the option of something to grab so I haven't attempted on the other two holes.
I guess some heat would help, but its not really an area I'd like to apply much heat to (grip area near by, small springs, etc). There is a substance that seems it was applied to the threads, sometime of thread locker maybe?
I need to try some penetrating oil, and some heat. At this point the only option I really have is a punch. What am I doing wrong?
Have I missed anything?
There's no loctite on the SR-15. Its just torque.
Heat can help (let it cool a bit). I used a pair of channel locks and was able to remove it quite easily. Only a faint mark from the pliers, no gouging.
I could have sworn I read somewhere here where some people found Loc-tite on the receiver extensions. I must be mistaken.
There's no loctite on the SR-15. Its just torque.
Heat can help (let it cool a bit). I used a pair of channel locks and was able to remove it quite easily. Only a faint mark from the pliers, no gouging.
RadioActivity
09-18-13, 23:02
There's no loctite on the SR-15. Its just torque.
Heat can help (let it cool a bit). I used a pair of channel locks and was able to remove it quite easily. Only a faint mark from the pliers, no gouging.
I am here to tell you there is certainly something on the threads of the receiver extension. It appears to be a clear liquid of some sort that I can see.
AlphaKoncepts
09-19-13, 08:20
Get yourself the Daniel Defense wrench. It's not ultra sturdy and may warp a little bit but it's 20x more sturdy than the cheap cast DPMS or NCstar wrenches which can't take any amount of torque.
I may have a few of the Daniel Defense wrenches around because they come with some of the rail systems.
I can not speak if loctite is on the KAC threads but heat always helps a stuck nuts (even with some loctites). I like to apply constant gentle heat from a plumbers propane torch moving the flame around the nut so it heats evenly over a slow period of time (maybe a minute or two as necessary). I also wear thick leather gloves to help from getting more hospital visits and scars than I already have.
militarymoron
09-19-13, 09:19
There was definitely some kind of thread locker on my SR-15 receiver extension when i took it off. I've had this lower for +15 years, so i can't speak for newer ones.
I don't remember there being any on the SR-15 I had a year or two ago. There was a good deal of torque though. Locktite will look like a compacted powder when dry, not a clear liquid.
The better wrenches will lock into at least three points on the nut.
Crappy wrenches...one.
Failure2Stop
09-19-13, 18:36
Current SR15s do not have any thread locker on the end plate retainer nut. They are torqued on.
We use a Brownells wrench (I posted about it before, will see if I can find it when I'm behind something other than my phone), however, it might not matter if you have mangled all of the holes.
If I get a nut that doesn't want to spin, I will hit it with heat for enough time to warm up the nut but not the receiver extension, hit it with some penetrating oil and then re-attack with force.
It might take a few heat cycles. Don't get frustrated and try to gorilla it.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I don't remember there being any on the SR-15 I had a year or two ago. There was a good deal of torque though. Locktite will look like a compacted powder when dry, not a clear liquid.
The better wrenches will lock into at least three points on the nut.
Crappy wrenches...one.
That does not apply to the old style dimpled-circular nuts KAC uses.
The right tool for the job ==> http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/stock-tools/ar-15-m16-m4-buttstock-tool-prod21254.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=BROWNELLS&psize=96
I would also buy some spare pins... http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/stock-tools/ar-15-m16-m4-replacement-pins-prod25010.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=BROWNELLS&psize=96
This whole issue is one of the reasons I bought one of these!
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=214&idcategory=21
Current SR15s do not have any thread locker on the end plate retainer nut. They are torqued on.
We use a Brownells wrench (I posted about it before, will see if I can find it when I'm behind something other than my phone), however, it might not matter if you have mangled all of the holes.
If I get a nut that doesn't want to spin, I will hit it with heat for enough time to warm up the nut but not the receiver extension, hit it with some penetrating oil and then re-attack with force.
It might take a few heat cycles. Don't get frustrated and try to gorilla it.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
No Loctite, no staking, what kind of torque are you using?
That does not apply to the old style dimpled-circular nuts KAC uses.
The right tool for the job ==> http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/stock-tools/ar-15-m16-m4-buttstock-tool-prod21254.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=BROWNELLS&psize=96
I would also buy some spare pins... http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/stock-tools/ar-15-m16-m4-replacement-pins-prod25010.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=BROWNELLS&psize=96
That's for the really old style nuts, the ones that only had the holes and no squares. I haven't seen one of those in quite a long time, and even then it was in a bin at a gun show.
Well that is what KAC is using on their SR-15s...
Not mine or any I've seen.
What am I doing wrong?
Have I missed anything?
Yes...
How are you fixturing your lower receiver? Using a magazine well block is asking for trouble. You should either be holding the receiver extension or the receiver itself in padded jaws very close to the extension.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=573&pictureid=2815
http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/BallistaSystems/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/8-CarbineRE_zpsc92d4136.jpg (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/BallistaSystems/media/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/8-CarbineRE_zpsc92d4136.jpg.html)
patrick sweeney
09-20-13, 14:25
MK18Pilot;
Good photos. My only (and minor) objection would on the one holding the tube. I try to "choke up" in situations like that, and clamp the tube as close as I can to the nut, leaving only clearance for the wrench.
Otherwise, nice pics.
And for those looking to try the heat approach, you have two tasks with heat; break the chemical bond of the fixed thread-locker, and to expand the nut.
Heat the nut and apply penetrating oil. let cool. Heat and repeat. Then, on the third time (or as many as patience permits) heat the nut, and then use compressed air on the inside of the buffer tube, to cool it, and shrink it down from the nut.
The first time I used the patience approach, when I put the wrench on, the nut was so loose I almost hurt myself unscrewing it.
Dave Berryhill
09-20-13, 18:02
That's for the really old style nuts, the ones that only had the holes and no squares. I haven't seen one of those in quite a long time, and even then it was in a bin at a gun show.
Nope, it comes with interchangeable/replaceable pins for both round holes and square holes. It's a very sturdy wrench and works well.
I've broken free some aggressively staked nuts with the three point style wrench.
That would be my choice over a single point style, considering I've broken one of them.
Screwing them on is another story, that's always the easy part.
BOOSTjunkie
09-21-13, 10:00
I have destroyed a receiver extension doing the same thing. I ended up stripping the threads on the tube due to an indiscretion with using loctite. Now I only tighten the castle nut and stake.
MK18Pilot;
My only (and minor) objection would on the one holding the tube. I try to "choke up" in situations like that, and clamp the tube as close as I can to the nut, leaving only clearance for the wrench.
The clamping force on the extension is very light. The stock indexing rib on the bottom of the extension prevents it from turning. The clamping location relative to the vise location on the bench gives me 360 degree access to the receiver extension nut.
http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/BallistaSystems/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/7-CarbineRE_zps43e6f187.jpg (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/BallistaSystems/media/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/7-CarbineRE_zps43e6f187.jpg.html)
http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/BallistaSystems/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/4-CarbineRE_zps4ab007b1.jpg (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/BallistaSystems/media/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/4-CarbineRE_zps4ab007b1.jpg.html)
I've had good results using the HammerHead tool, which engages all four slots of the receiver extension nut.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/Tools/IMG_8333.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AR15forme/media/Tools/IMG_8333.jpg.html)
Suwannee Tim
09-21-13, 19:46
Nice machine vise you got there MK18.
Nice machine vise you got there MK18.
Thanks! It's the only way to fly...
Suwannee Tim
09-23-13, 19:34
I've seen a great many machine vises over the years though I can't remember ever seeing one used as a dedicated bench vise. Looks like a good one too.
Dave Berryhill
09-23-13, 21:15
Thanks! It's the only way to fly...
I Agree! They are great for holding all kinds of parts. I use one as a universal sight tool for semi auto slides and as a barrel vise for revolvers as well.
All of these responses and almost none of them pertain to the OP's actual situation. Please refrain from posting if you do not have current 1st hand knowledge of what KAC is using on their current production SR-15s. The Brownells' wrench I posted is the tool KAC uses, confirmed by Jack, and is the best tool to remove the circular, dimpled style RE nuts. I will say good job on posting vise setups, this is just as important as using the right wrench.
I'd cut thew off with a dremel Wheel short way. Stop before you break through to the tube and use a screwdriver to twist twist cap in two.. and there ya go! Cheers.. Rom
RadioActivity
09-24-13, 03:24
All of these responses and almost none of them pertain to the OP's actual situation. Please refrain from posting if you do not have current 1st hand knowledge of what KAC is using on their current production SR-15s. The Brownells' wrench I posted is the tool KAC uses, confirmed by Jack, and is the best tool to remove the circular, dimpled style RE nuts. I will say good job on posting vise setups, this is just as important as using the right wrench.
Yeaahhhh.
I just picked out the pertaining advice and left the rest, thank you all who responded appropriately to this thread, your advice is greatly appreciated. I find it funny that KAC says they don't apply a thread locker to the threads, as there is SOMETHING on the threads that appears as a darker/clear fluid than the gray colored extension itself. This runs halfway up the exposed threads. Perhaps its whatever rust inhibitor/lube that KAC uses that smells like burned hair?
Once I find time I will attack the nut with all of the hints and tips acquired in this thread.
Now that the nut is trashed just use a pipe wrench. Why are you tearing this rifle apart anyway? I thought they were perfect.
Now that the nut is trashed just use a pipe wrench. Why are you tearing this rifle apart anyway? I thought they were perfect.
I wish
RadioActivity
09-25-13, 01:28
Installing a Noveske QD endplate (I, like nearly everyone else, dislike the lower receiver based QD cups); something I would of done with any other rifle I bought.
Installing a Noveske QD endplate (I, like nearly everyone else, dislike the lower receiver based QD cups); something I would of done with any other rifle I bought.
That makes sense, I also have the Noveske QD endplate on all my rifles.
I had this made up after visiting Colt Canada and seeing their jig. Theirs was tool steel, mine is HDPE. Mike from Plastix Plus made it. The magwell post holds the front and the tail post holds the receiver extension - the cut out holds the RE solid to prevent turning. I clamp the stand to my bench with C-clamps. Works great.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/armorer%20stuff/diemacostandcopy.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Boltgun/media/armorer%20stuff/diemacostandcopy.jpg.html)
Boltgun
I had this made up after visiting Colt Canada and seeing their jig. Theirs was tool steel, mine is HDPE. Mike from Plastix Plus made it. The magwell post holds the front and the tail post holds the receiver extension - the cut out holds the RE solid to prevent turning. I clamp the stand to my bench with C-clamps. Works great.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/armorer%20stuff/diemacostandcopy.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Boltgun/media/armorer%20stuff/diemacostandcopy.jpg.html)
Boltgun
Interesting, do you have any better pictures?
not yet but I will take some.
Boltgun
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_abb10e3fd469877df2d2480d5afb8398_zps01c90c8e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=abb10e3fd469877df2d2480d5afb8398_zps01c90c8e.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_18125910df374d9e5e1568ecef248daa_zpsde3d6b70.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=18125910df374d9e5e1568ecef248daa_zpsde3d6b70.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_fc5a639d42975f20a5949b5c5a580ba4_zps99117d0a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=fc5a639d42975f20a5949b5c5a580ba4_zps99117d0a.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_4ce95f162fbe4fcdb7b29feae7937ed9_zpscd6fd003.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=4ce95f162fbe4fcdb7b29feae7937ed9_zpscd6fd003.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_f4e2ce7a97264b8754dd7d5ec3d7bcb5_zps422f0fab.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=f4e2ce7a97264b8754dd7d5ec3d7bcb5_zps422f0fab.jpg)
F-Trooper05
09-28-13, 02:11
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=573&pictureid=2815
Where did you get those vice jaws? I'm seeing some on Brownells, but I'm not sure if they're the same. It says the red ones are for wood and plastic, and the blue ones are for metal. Which ones would I want specifically for the lower receiver?
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/vises-accessories/vise-jaws/super-hold-vise-jaw-pads-prod12798.aspx?ctl00$ucheaderSearch$btnSubmitSearch=Search
Where did you get those vice jaws? I'm seeing some on Brownells, but I'm not sure if they're the same. It says the red ones are for wood and plastic, and the blue ones are for metal. Which ones would I want specifically for the lower receiver?
Same...
You definitely want the red set. The compound is softer than blue and conforms to the shape of the receiver.
CharlieMike
09-28-13, 16:03
The clamping force on the extension is very light. The stock indexing rib on the bottom of the extension prevents it from turning. The clamping location relative to the vise location on the bench gives me 360 degree access to the receiver extension nut.
.com/albums/r704/BallistaSystems/OFFICE-PC/Shop%20Tools/4-CarbineRE_zps4ab007b1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
This is nearly the exact set-up I use (granted yours is much newer) but I've had trouble with this method and the KAC lowers. I've also had a little trouble using the wrench the Jack recommended for removal. I've had one torqued on so well that it sheared the pin off. I've found that the Guntech wrench was more reliable since it wraps around the locking nut tightly and prevents the spanner from slipping as you apply force. YMMV.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_abb10e3fd469877df2d2480d5afb8398_zps01c90c8e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=abb10e3fd469877df2d2480d5afb8398_zps01c90c8e.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_18125910df374d9e5e1568ecef248daa_zpsde3d6b70.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=18125910df374d9e5e1568ecef248daa_zpsde3d6b70.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_fc5a639d42975f20a5949b5c5a580ba4_zps99117d0a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=fc5a639d42975f20a5949b5c5a580ba4_zps99117d0a.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_4ce95f162fbe4fcdb7b29feae7937ed9_zpscd6fd003.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=4ce95f162fbe4fcdb7b29feae7937ed9_zpscd6fd003.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/th_f4e2ce7a97264b8754dd7d5ec3d7bcb5_zps422f0fab.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/?action=view¤t=f4e2ce7a97264b8754dd7d5ec3d7bcb5_zps422f0fab.jpg)
Cool!
Thanks for the pics.
I bought the Brownells tool referenced in the thread and I'm not that enamored with it. I wasn't able to loosen the nut on my SR-15 using the tool and finally resorted to using a pair of channel-lock pliers (nut came right off).
I tried the heat/cool/oil cycle suggestion and this is all I got with my effort using the tool:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5547/nryt.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/nryt.jpg/)
For what it is worth, it doesn't seem like the pins are properly hardened as, rather than shearing/snapping off, the material on the end of the pin seems to slough off.
(the holes in the nut were still in good shape so they must be harder than the pins). On the plus side, the pins can be reversed in the tool so that the other side can be used.
Sounds like you got some bum pins...
Mine are harder than the nut and do not deform like the one you shared... (I have snapped a pin though) Good news is you can buy replacement steel pins from almost any hardware store. Sorry you got a bad batch, without a proper pin the tool won't do its job removing the nut. If you have a bunch of old / worn drill bits, you can chop one down that has the same O.D. and use it as a pin in the interim.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.