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COJAM
04-25-08, 09:42
I have a Glock 19, M&P .40, Sig Sp2340.Now I need a 1911 to complete my little armory. I'm looking for recommendations on a 4 inch 1911 all steel or polymer frame.It doesn't matter if it's single stack or high cap. just as long as it can fit my average size hands. I don't want to spend over $1000.Thanks in advanced.

mike benedict
04-25-08, 10:26
I would get a full size 5" Springfield loaded

4" 1911s are problems

i would not get anything with an internal safety like colt 80 series, S&Ws or Kimber series II


Mike

Army Chief
04-25-08, 10:32
At that price point, for me it's going to be a Colt Series 70 reissue, every time. Should you decide to use the pistol for a custom base gun later on, you'll have the best possible starting point.

Chief

mike benedict
04-25-08, 11:11
At that price point, for me it's going to be a Colt Series 70 reissue

the Colt re-make of the series 70 is one of my favorites too.
But for me it will take some custom work before it is shootable like a beavertail and sights and that for sure would take it beyond $1000.

As a base for a custom gun there would not be anything better.


Mike

Parabellum9x19mm
04-25-08, 14:10
4 inch 1911 for under 1k? the choice is clear:

Colt Combat Commander XSE or Colt Lightweight Commander XSE ....depending on yr preference. I like the all steel Combat Commander over the light aluminum frame, personally.


i'm also just a heathen who actually likes the Series 80 LOL i don't care if they are harder to work on, I like all my pistols to be drop safe.

Eric Torres
04-25-08, 14:18
1. Is this going to be a plinker/toy, a competition gun, or is it going to be a defensive handgun?
2. New or used?
3. What caliber do you want?
4. If it is going to be a defensive handgun is it going to be a "nightstand" gun, concealed carry gun, or a tactical gun?

bullitt5172
04-25-08, 15:11
I would get a full size 5" Springfield loaded

4" 1911s are problems

i would not get anything with an internal safety like colt 80 series, S&Ws or Kimber series II


Mike

Not completely true, 4.25" Commanders and 4" Compact/Champions can be as reliable as any 5". Once you go shorter than 4" you can run into trouble.

Under $1000, Colt and SA get the nod.

sff70
04-25-08, 15:15
Compact, high cap 1911s have more problems (the worst combination possible).

Stick to single stacks.

Stick to internal extractor models.

At your price point, depending on purpose you are going to use it for. Some models to be on your short list:

5" 1911s: Springfield MC Operator, Colt New Series 70, Colt XSE

4.25" 1911s: Colt XSE Commander

DocGKR
04-25-08, 15:20
Unfortunately if you are going to get a good 1911 ready for serious use, you will need to spend significantly more funds to ensure a 100% reliable and durable weapon. Right now, about the only relatively easily obtainable 1911 that I would feel comfortable purchasing for duty/carry use would be the SA Professional 5" barrel, single stack, steel frame..and even those are sometimes in need of a little tweaking.

bullitt5172
04-25-08, 15:24
Unfortunately if you are going to get a good 1911 ready for serious use, you will need to spend significantly more funds to ensure a 100% reliable and durable weapon. Right now, about the only relatively easily obtainable 1911 that I would feel comfortable purchasing for duty/carry use would be the SA Professional...and even those are sometimes in need of a little tweaking.

SA Professionals are not readily available, that's a good thing for me....I'd have too many of them. Any Semi-Custom from Baer, Wilson or Brown is going to run out of the box. I like my Pro but my Wilson CQB and Baer TRS are as reliable and they actually are readily available.

LDM
04-25-08, 16:43
If I had it to do over again...
I'd buy a Springfield mil spec and send it to good gunsmith (e.g. EGW, Berryhill, or any number of others) for a reliability job. I'd have the fire control parts and ejector replaced with tool steel.
You would have a reliable, albeit plain Jane, basic fighting pistol.
You'd have about $1000 in the weapon.
If you go to $1500 price point, you have a lot of good choices.
But for $1000, the approach I outlined above would be what I'd do.
Good luck.
Stay safe.

Hersh
04-25-08, 17:00
Colt.

Take a look at the "1991s."

Oscar 319
04-25-08, 18:12
I have a Glock 19, M&P .40, Sig Sp2340.Now I need a 1911 to complete my little armory. I'm looking for recommendations on a 4 inch 1911 all steel or polymer frame.It doesn't matter if it's single stack or high cap. just as long as it can fit my average size hands. I don't want to spend over $1000.Thanks in advanced.

I hate to step outside of the box, but you said "or a polymer frame". Are you refering to the polymer 1911's like the Wilson's and Kimber's? If not, for under 1k a solid plastic .45 can be had in a M&P 45 or a HK45. Both are being released in compact models this year and both of these pistols are solid performers for under $1000.

On the flip side, I believe it is un- American to not own at least one 1911. ;)

ToddG
04-25-08, 19:28
On the flip side, I believe it is un- American to not own at least one 1911. ;)

Hmmm ... Brazilian-born 1911 or Made-in-the-USA M&P? Hmmmm ... :cool:

Ridgerunner665
04-25-08, 19:34
Unfortunately if you are going to get a good 1911 ready for serious use, you will need to spend significantly more funds to ensure a 100% reliable and durable weapon. Right now, about the only relatively easily obtainable 1911 that I would feel comfortable purchasing for duty/carry use would be the SA Professional 5" barrel, single stack, steel frame..and even those are sometimes in need of a little tweaking.

+1.

Theres nothing like a fine tuned 1911...but they don't come easy, and certainly not for less than $1000.

Mine (a Baer) set me back $1700...but its worth every penny (to me).

RD62
04-25-08, 19:50
I second the Colt Commander or Springer Champion. Although I too prefer a 5" Gov't model. I just personally never gained anything from the shorter slide.

-RD62

COJAM
04-25-08, 22:33
Thanks guys for all the replies , I'm going to write down several of your recommendations and hit the gun stores tomorrow and see how they feel, and check out the quality of these 1911's that you gentlemen suggested. As I stated in my original post I definitely want a 4 inch, and nothing larger than 4.25". It will not be my carry gun,my M&P .40 and G19 have those . It's more or less that I don't have one and would like to add to my arsenal and increase my Knowledge on a quality 1911. Thanks again fellas for your wisdom.

sigmundsauer
04-25-08, 23:09
Thanks guys for all the replies , I'm going to write down several of your recommendations and hit the gun stores tomorrow and see how they feel, and check out the quality of these 1911's that you gentlemen suggested. As I stated in my original post I definitely want a 4 inch, and nothing larger than 4.25". It will not be my carry gun,my M&P .40 and G19 have those . It's more or less that I don't have one and would like to add to my arsenal and increase my Knowledge on a quality 1911. Thanks again fellas for your wisdom.

Bust the bank and get a NHC T3. Absolutely the sweetest 4.25" 1911 I can imagine.

Tim

ToddG
04-25-08, 23:20
As I stated in my original post I definitely want a 4 inch, and nothing larger than 4.25". It will not be my carry gun,my M&P .40 and G19 have those . It's more or less that I don't have one and would like to add to my arsenal and increase my Knowledge on a quality 1911.

If it's not going to be a carry weapon, I would strongly urge you to reconsider the barrel length issue. As many experienced people here have already said, you are much more likely to get a satisfactory 5" gun than 4.25" gun, especially at that price point.

JLM
04-26-08, 01:40
I'd certainly be reluctant to use anything less than a 5" gun, allthou they CAN in limited instances be made to run. I'd run a 4" gun if it was from someone like Heinie, but barring that no.

Doc's recommendations are certainly relevant.

Hell, I'm reluctant to use a 1911 AT ALL anymore, simply as a cost issue. Its really too bad because in terms of shootability there is a LOT to like there. The first time I shot one it instantly felt 'at home' in my hand.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do your homework. Its not for the faint of heart :cool: Both the homework, and the platform.

ThirdWatcher
04-26-08, 02:11
My SW1911PD Gunsite Edition off-duty pistol (4.25" bbl) is accurate and reliable and the scandium frame is a noticeably lighter than my steel framed 5" bbl service pistol.:)

variablebinary
04-26-08, 04:03
I have a Glock 19, M&P .40, Sig Sp2340.Now I need a 1911 to complete my little armory. I'm looking for recommendations on a 4 inch 1911 all steel or polymer frame.It doesn't matter if it's single stack or high cap. just as long as it can fit my average size hands. I don't want to spend over $1000.Thanks in advanced.

For the sub $1000 range...to be honest I wouldnt bother. You'd be better off getting a SIG 220, or HK45. Honestly

Bump your pockets up a couple of hundred and then the decent options start to appear. By decent I mean TRP, or maybe an MC operator. I cant recommend Kimber at this due to numerous first hand negative experiances.

I suppose there is always S&W but I have a thing against external extractors...seems so un-1911 like...

Still, even if you go TRP, which is a good entry 1911 for the money, dont expect Ed Brown, Nighthawk or Les Baer class build quality. Working the action on the Nighthawk feels like the slide was riding on ball bearings. You just dont get that on production pistols

If I had the cash I would get a Springer FBI Pro model :(

AnchorArmament
04-26-08, 05:59
In a Commander size 1911, I carry a CCO (4.25" slide and Officer frame). The company owner carries a tweaked Commander. Colt has the best FPS, if you are stuck buying a 1911 with one.

SA also makes a decent 4".

You'll be fine getting a good running 1911 for under $1k. I suggest you find the best 4"-4.25" gun in the $800 to $900 range and get a Cylinder and Slide drop in trigger kit. The owner's Commander started off as a $400 NIB NRM Commander and got some upgrades. The best money spent was replacing the stock trigger.

The single action trigger is the key to the beauty of a 1911.

sigmundsauer
04-26-08, 13:34
My 1911 experience is limited. However I can succinctly state that my NHC T3 with a 4.25" tube does run better than my 5" of the same company. An anomaly probably, but it runs smooth and is incredibly accurate.

All things equal, I rarely carry my 5" on account of its size. The compact T3 is perfect for daily carry. I wanted a 4.25" 1911 and I'm very happy with mine. Generally speaking in the shorter barrel lengths I'd steer toward HK and SIG, though. Heck, I prefer HK and SIG to nearly any 1911 regardless of bbl length.

Tim

Gutshot John
04-26-08, 14:31
Do you want to carry/use? I think others have said if you're looking for a serious use 1911, you need to spend more money.

If you're not going to carry and want a 1911 more to have fun with, then I've had great luck with Springfield Armory. Mine was about $450 for the mil-spec, ran like a champ.

Oscar 319
04-26-08, 18:29
Do you want to carry/use? I think others have said if you're looking for a serious use 1911, you need to spend more money.

If you're not going to carry and want a 1911 more to have fun with, then I've had great luck with Springfield Armory. Mine was about $450 for the mil-spec, ran like a champ.

I agree. If you are not carrying it and just want a great gun to shoot, get a 5" mil-spec. FWIW, my favorite hand gun to shoot is a Colt 1911A1 made in 1942 and stamped "US GOVERNMENT PROPERTY". The rifling is damn near shot out of it and it runs perfect. There is not an empty pop can in the desert that is safe from that gun.

A mil-spec or goverment model is perfect for cutting your teeth on and getting aquainted with 1911's. From there you can decide if it is a platform you want to; a) build up the gun you already own, or b) invest 2k in a high end Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, Etc. At least then you will be making an educated decision based on your wants and needs.

JBone870
04-27-08, 13:50
I am quite partial to the Springfield GI model. I just saw it recently at a shop for 500. It is very nice.

Jim D
04-27-08, 17:52
While I am not outright recommending the S&W 1911's for a fighting gun....I will say that our rentals have probably 50k rounds between 2 of them, and their extractors are working flawlessly.

I'm familiar with the problems Kimber had with their external extractors....but I've seen a lot of rounds go through the S&W's, and their extraction seems to be top notch so far.

I've seen some parts failure on the guns, and wouldn't buy one unless I was gonna have it overhauled...just wanted to chime in on their extractors is all.

8200rpm
04-27-08, 20:25
For the sub $1000 range...to be honest I wouldnt bother. You'd be better off getting a SIG 220, or HK45. Honestly


If it's not a dedicated self defense pistol, what's a few feeding and extraction failures.;)

Personally, I hate babysitting extractor tension on 1911s... especially when they need to be dealt with after less than 1k rounds. Sure, quality aftermarket replacement parts are available from Wilson, Ed Brown, etc., but why bother. For $1000, I shouldn't have to replace anything at under 5000k rounds.

Sub $1k 1911s can work, but I'd rather gamble the money in Vegas on the blackjack table and buy a Les Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk with the winnings... or 3 SIGs... or an M1A and a Glock... or... you get the point.

If I was rich, I wouldn't mind having $2k tied up in one sidearm.

Army Chief
04-28-08, 00:17
Some will surely disagree, but I think we're being a bit disingenuous to suggest that an out-of-the-box production 1911 cannot work properly. That simply is not the case, and notwithstanding the customization craze of the past decade or two, one must keep in mind that Old Slabsides worked just fine in a very basic configuration for many generations before we got our hands on it.

In order to bring the pistol into the "modern era," we've tinkered with sights, safeties, triggers, magazines, fire control parts, ejection ports, springs, overall dimensions, barrels, tolerances and just about everything else on the 1911 -- little wonder then that some of them should have problems. The point here is that one can generally go out and buy a box stock Colt or Springfield (just for example) and probably feel quite comfortable with the reliability and overall performance of the pistol. Most of the 5" are good to go, and more than a few of the 4.25" models run just as well in practical terms.

So, where do we go wrong? Well, I think the first area is that we try to save a buck, not realizing that the 1911 is not a Glock or HK or S&W. A 1911 needs some bench time under skilled hands to be set up properly the first time, and time/skilled labor costs money. Don't expect a "me too" marketer to deliver a flawless 1911 clone for $600; if you go that route, you've no right to expect a positive outcome. One needn't spend $2,000 or more on a custom, either, but the point here is that most bargain 1911s aren't anything of the sort.

The second area where we tend to go wrong is in gravitating toward the "sexier" chopped-down and/or heavily-modified versions. Can anyone get a 3.5" 1911 to really run? The answer is a qualified "yes," but then refer to point #1, above. It is definitely a more difficult task, and if you expect to keep one of them running, you had better know something about spring weights and ammunition selection. Commanders and Government Models have far fewer problems, and the latter is the unquestioned king of the lot, even today. Before you start down the "but that's an awfully big pistol to carry" line of reasoning, remember that barrel length isn't nearly as much of a factor in concealability as width and overall profile, and the 1911 is such a flat design that even a small man can easily pack a 5" model.

Can you get a reliable 1911 for under $1,000? If you shop for the right model, and the QC boys did their part, the answer is a resounding "yes." Will you inevitably begin tinkering with it later? Well, of course ... sooner or later, most every 1911 gets a bit more TLC along the way, but that wasn't the original question. Most of us who have owned several examples of this pistol will tell you that we have Colts that are every bit as reliable as our Wilsons or Browns. Not that the latter aren't money well spent, but sometimes that added expense is borne of desire, rather than true necessity.

My advice? Go buy a 5" Colt, and don't mess with it.

Chief

ToddG
04-28-08, 05:10
... one must keep in mind that Old Slabsides worked just fine in a very basic configuration for many generations before we got our hands on it.

One should also keep in mind, when that very basic configuration worked just fine for many generations, people: ... were not shooting JHP through the gun.
... were not shooting as much, on average, as serious shooters do today.
... considered a 500 MRBS rate acceptable.

But in fairness, they also didn't expect the gun to be infinitely customizable in terms of ergonomics, or have super-light trigger jobs, or any of the other things that have become almost "required" for an official Cool Guy 1911.

If ten different companies were building Glock 17's, the Glock 17 would certainly have a much worse reputation than it does today.

bullitt5172
04-28-08, 07:01
Some will surely disagree, but I think we're being a bit disingenuous to suggest that an out-of-the-box production 1911 cannot work properly. That simply is not the case, and notwithstanding the customization craze of the past decade or two, one must keep in mind that Old Slabsides worked just fine in a very basic configuration for many generations before we got our hands on it.

In order to bring the pistol into the "modern era," we've tinkered with sights, safeties, triggers, magazines, fire control parts, ejection ports, springs, overall dimensions, barrels, tolerances and just about everything else on the 1911 -- little wonder then that some of them should have problems. The point here is that one can generally go out and buy a box stock Colt or Springfield (just for example) and probably feel quite comfortable with the reliability and overall performance of the pistol. Most of the 5" are good to go, and more than a few of the 4.25" models run just as well in practical terms.

So, where do we go wrong? Well, I think the first area is that we try to save a buck, not realizing that the 1911 is not a Glock or HK or S&W. A 1911 needs some bench time under skilled hands to be set up properly the first time, and time/skilled labor costs money. Don't expect a "me too" marketer to deliver a flawless 1911 clone for $600; if you go that route, you've no right to expect a positive outcome. One needn't spend $2,000 or more on a custom, either, but the point here is that most bargain 1911s aren't anything of the sort.

The second area where we tend to go wrong is in gravitating toward the "sexier" chopped-down and/or heavily-modified versions. Can anyone get a 3.5" 1911 to really run? The answer is a qualified "yes," but then refer to point #1, above. It is definitely a more difficult task, and if you expect to keep one of them running, you had better know something about spring weights and ammunition selection. Commanders and Government Models have far fewer problems, and the latter is the unquestioned king of the lot, even today. Before you start down the "but that's an awfully big pistol to carry" line of reasoning, remember that barrel length isn't nearly as much of a factor in concealability as width and overall profile, and the 1911 is such a flat design that even a small man can easily pack a 5" model.

Can you get a reliable 1911 for under $1,000? If you shop for the right model, and the QC boys did their part, the answer is a resounding "yes." Will you inevitably begin tinkering with it later? Well, of course ... sooner or later, most every 1911 gets a bit more TLC along the way, but that wasn't the original question. Most of us who have owned several examples of this pistol will tell you that we have Colts that are every bit as reliable as our Wilsons or Browns. Not that the latter aren't money well spent, but sometimes that added expense is borne of desire, rather than true necessity.

My advice? Go buy a 5" Colt, and don't mess with it.

Chief


I agree with you 100%. Most of those who think the 1911 is unreliable have never fired or handled one. I've owned a lot of 1911's over the years, the only one that didn't run out of the box was a Kimber CDP Pro II. Anyone who says a 1911 can't be/isn't reliable is talking out there arse.

I've owned everything from a SA GI to a Yost Custom, Wilsons and Baers and everything in between. All have been as reliable as any other gun I have owned. This is with hollowpoints, 1000+ round pistol courses etc. I just put 750 rounds through my CQB this weekend in a one day course, I had two FTF issues with my reloads - they were too long. Other than that, I lubed it once and it ran and ran.

STS
04-28-08, 11:03
I also think people get a little carried away with the whole "my gun can go 3,000 rounds without cleaning or malfunctions and your 1911 can't" line. My response is so what. When in the real world would a true defensive pistol need to be fired so much?

I'm more than comfortable carrying a pistol that can go 500 rounds without cleaning and no malfunctions.

All my 1911's have made it through multiple day classes and high round counts without failure. But that doesn't really matter to me. What matters most is that when it is cleaned and lubed, that I can take it to the range and fire 25 rounds of Speer 230 gn Gold Dot reliably straight from the holster. It is nice to know what it can do at 500 and 1,000 rounds, but it is not applicable to me in the real world. I need 25-32 perfect rounds.

As much as I like and appreciate the 1911 design, in your case, I'd get a glock 19. Either go 5" 1911 from a quality maker or go with another model of gun. Unless you are willing to do what it takes to take full advantage of the 1911 platform, a Glock 19 is a far better choice for 90% of the shooters out there. You are asking for trouble by A) wanting 4" 1911 and B) wanting it for less than $1,000.

Sure the shorties can run well - I've shot a little 3" 1911 built by CT Brian that was pretty amazing - it digested well over 500 rounds in one day with not a single problem.........of course it didn't cost less than $1,000 either though. You get what you pay for, especially with 1911's.

ToddG
04-28-08, 12:42
Most of those who think the 1911 is unreliable have never fired or handled one.

And you base this statement on what, exactly?

harrydog
04-28-08, 13:05
I would get a full size 5" Springfield loaded

4" 1911s are problems

i would not get anything with an internal safety like colt 80 series, S&Ws or Kimber series II


Mike
Mike,
I thought I had asked you this earlier, but I guess not. Or maybe it was another forum...
Anyway, where did you get your avatar from? It looks the same symbol that Paul Liebenberg (Pistol Dynamics) uses. In any case, I like it.
http://www.pistoldynamics.com/Pistols_08.html

TUNNEL RAT 33
04-29-08, 10:43
anyone with firsthand knowledge , experience with the Kimber Warrior ?

David Thomas
04-29-08, 10:52
anyone with firsthand knowledge , experience with the Kimber Warrior ?

I have two, one Desert Warrior and the other is a black one. My Desert warrior was purchased when the first came out and my black warrior was purchased some time later.

I am completely satisfied with both of my Kimber Warriors. However, my Desert Warrior sees more rounds fired through it and is probably my favorite of the two due to the slightly shorter trigger.