View Full Version : Pro 2nd Amendement Sign removed by Police
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/23/fed-up-ny-man-sets-up-hidden-camera-to-find-out-who-was-repeatedly-stealing-his-pro-gun-sign-what-he-discovered-blew-him-away/
Sad but expected in NY. As a retired NYC Police Officer this is disappointing but predictable.
The Somers NY Thought Police will soon take this man into the Ministry of Love...
Army Chief
09-24-13, 08:31
First read-through didn't really provide much in the way of background details. Sign ordinance/placement issue, or something personal? Don't really want to credit anyone with false motivations, for or against.
AC
Most city codes prohibit private purpose (non government) and commercial signs in the public rights-of-way. What most people don't understand is that this ROW extends up into what they think of as their yard.
For example, in Austin, the ROW extends 10 feet into the yard from the edge of the curb. The first expansion joint of driveways is even set by code to be along this line.
Courts have held over and over again that removal of private purpose (non government) and commercial signs from the ROW does not constitue a violation of free speech.
Most police or code enforcement departments, however, extend the courtesy of a notice to the sign owner, especially at a single family dwelling, of pending removal so the sign owner can remove it himself and retain possession of his property (the sign).
Most city codes prohibit private purpose (non government) and commercial signs in the public rights-of-way. What most people don't understand itsthat this ROW extends up into what they think of as their yard.
For example, in Austin, the ROW extends 10 feet into the yard from the edge of the curb. The first expansion joint of driveways is even set by code to be along this line.
Courts have held over and over again that removal of private purpose (non government) and commercial signs from the ROW does not constitue a violation of free speech.
Most police or code enforcement departments, however, extend the courtesy of a notice to the sign owner, especially at a single family dwelling, of pending removal so the sign owner can remove it himself and retain possession of his property (the sign).
I agree 100%. I would imagine notice being given first that he is somehow in violation of the town ordinance, not just come there, kick the sign down and take it away.
He may have been in violation of the sign regulation according to the Somers Zoning Code:
[Amended 4-29-1965]
In residence districts, the following signs are hereby authorized:
A. One residence business or professional sign not exceeding 150 square inches for each residence.
B. One "for sale" or one "to let" sign not exceeding two feet by two and one-half feet, set back at least 20 feet from the street line in a Residence R80 District or not exceeding two feet by two feet, set back at least 15 feet from the street line in any Residence R40 District or not exceeding one and one-half feet by two feet, set back at least 10 feet from the street line in any Residence R10 District.
But he should have received a notice or fine, not having this bald doof kick his sign over.
I have some personal background info, the owner of the property and the sign was contacted by the town to remove the sign A lawyer advise the poster that political speech signs were exempt and Somers town attorney agreed that the sign was legally displayed. After that the sign was stolen from its location three times finally a trail camera was set up and caught the offender In NY these issues are handled b y the town code enforcement officer with a summons and a court date and court order to remove the violation.
[Amended 4-29-1965]
In residence districts, the following signs are hereby authorized:
A. One residence business or professional sign not exceeding 150 square inches for each residence.
B. One "for sale" or one "to let" sign not exceeding two feet by two and one-half feet, set back at least 20 feet from the street line in a Residence R80 District or not exceeding two feet by two feet, set back at least 15 feet from the street line in any Residence R40 District or not exceeding one and one-half feet by two feet, set back at least 10 feet from the street line in any Residence R10 District
IT IS A POLITICAL SIGN not a business or profession sign
I have some personal background info, the owner of the property and the sign was contacted by the town to remove the sign A lawyer advise the poster that political speech signs were exempt and Somers town attorney agreed that the sign was legally displayed. After that the sign was stolen from its location three times finally a trail camera was set up and caught the offender In NY these issues are handled b y the town code enforcement officer with a summons and a court date and court order to remove the violation.
If he adhered to the Zoning Ordinance, then the cop was way out of line and should loose his job ASAP.
I built a bank in Somers NY, never had a problem with their Zoning board...
Gutshot John
09-24-13, 10:16
You think that's bad...
Pittsburgh Residents Ticketed for Parking in their own Driveways. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57602734-504083/fine-mess-pittsburgh-residents-ticketed-for-parking-in-their-own-driveways/)
I agree 100%. I would imagine notice being given first that he is somehow in violation of the town ordinance, not just come there, kick the sign down and take it away.
Generally speaking they do not give notice. Then again the Police usually have more pressing matters to deal with and it's left to public works.
Sometimes they will notify say the local Association of Realtors who then notify their members not to place signs in easements. That sign was most likely in an easement.
Not that there wasn't an agenda but if they tried to notify everyone that placed something in an easement that alone would take forever.... and you don't always know who's sign it is.
It needs to be on your property... or private property with permission anyway, if not your property. Easements are usually a no go and you can absolutely count on someone taking them down and/or filing a complaint about them.
Generally speaking they do not give notice. Then again the Police usually have more pressing matters to deal with and it's left to public works.
Sometimes they will notify say the local Association of Realtors who then notify their members not to place signs in easements. That sign was most likely in an easement.
Not that there wasn't an agenda but if they tried to notify everyone that placed something in an easement that alone would take forever.... and you don't always know who's sign it is.
It needs to be on your property... or private property with permission anyway, if not your property. Easements are usually a no go and you can absolutely count on someone taking them down and/or filing a complaint about them.
Just about everything you said in the above quoted post varies widely by jurisdiction.
There is a real good chance that what happens in my city isn't what happens in yours, and vice versa.
That sign should be illegal because it will scare young children. It has an image of a gun part on it.
Generally speaking they do not give notice. Then again the Police usually have more pressing matters to deal with and it's left to public works.
Sometimes they will notify say the local Association of Realtors who then notify their members not to place signs in easements. That sign was most likely in an easement.
Not that there wasn't an agenda but if they tried to notify everyone that placed something in an easement that alone would take forever.... and you don't always know who's sign it is.
It needs to be on your property... or private property with permission anyway, if not your property. Easements are usually a no go and you can absolutely count on someone taking them down and/or filing a complaint about them.
I happen to disagree. I deal with variances, signage, zoning boards and the like every day. I have given testimony to Planning and Zoning Boards and prepared drawings to show compliance with zoning regulations. I have yet to see a jurisdiction that does not issue a notice of non compliance or a fine.
I will concede that I deal with commercial architecture, but if pylon or building mounted signs are outside the allowable limits I have yet to have a cop brake one down.
I have dealt with banks that put up signs that are larger than the allowable and then the original application indicated. They received a fine, I went to the Zoning Board and got a variance. No one tore it down, granted it was on a 20' pylon but still lol.
You think that's bad...
Pittsburgh Residents Ticketed for Parking in their own Driveways. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57602734-504083/fine-mess-pittsburgh-residents-ticketed-for-parking-in-their-own-driveways/)
I about fell off my chair when I first saw that.
brickboy240
09-24-13, 11:54
Its New York...what do you expect?
-brickboy240
Its New York...what do you expect?
-brickboy240
It is what I expect. Most Americans don't realize how the Police are used as the Hammer of Thor in New York.
I happen to disagree. I deal with variances, signage, zoning boards and the like every day. I have given testimony to Planning and Zoning Boards and prepared drawings to show compliance with zoning regulations. I have yet to see a jurisdiction that does not issue a notice of non compliance or a fine.
I will concede that I deal with commercial architecture, but if pylon or building mounted signs are outside the allowable limits I have yet to have a cop brake one down.
I have dealt with banks that put up signs that are larger than the allowable and then the original application indicated. They received a fine, I went to the Zoning Board and got a variance. No one tore it down, granted it was on a 20' pylon but still lol.
Oh sure... for commercial signs..... I'm talking about personal free speech signs, lead in's for yard sales, real estate, etc..
You are talking about permanent long life signs. I'm talking about personal short life signs. No one is going to knock down the Home Depot sign. In fact we just had a big hoopla around here over a sign to large planned community about it's location and lettering size after it was put in place. Obviously they are not just going to tear it down. But stick "Vote for Me", "Yard Sale Tomorrow", "Guns are Good" in the easement and they are going to be tossed in the back of the truck along with the roadkill without a word said.
Gutshot John
09-24-13, 12:48
I about fell off my chair when I first saw that.
My head literally (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/living/literally-definition/index.html) exploded. ;)
Oh sure... for commercial signs..... I'm talking about personal free speech signs, lead in's for yard sales, real estate, etc..
In Austin, all of the above are illegal if not on your own property and outside of the ROW. And they can only be of a certain size or under.
Off premise signs are illegal anywhere (Joe's Body Shop sign in my yard with my permission - it's illegal). Realtor directional signs - illegal anywhere. Yard sale signs - illegal if not on your own property. Lost pets signs - same thing, illegal if not on your own property.
And so-called free speech signs on your own property outside of the ROW still must conform to the number, size and location perscribed by City Code.
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