M1 Carbine Info

[lurpygeek]

Hello Forum...

I have a family member who is interested in getting an M1 Carbine. They would be getting it somewhat for collecting, some for shooting and some for home defense. I know quite a bit about the history and design of them, but I'm really not familiar with what options are out there today.

I've looked at a few older, surplus offerings, some of which impressed me and some did not. Most are quite pricey. I've also looked at the Auto Ordinance reproduction which REALLY didn't impress me (sights were cheezy and fit and finish was poor on both the wood and the metal).

Any dealers or manufacturers I should look at? Anything I should stay away from? Anything I should be sure to closely examine mechanically?

Basically we're looking for something nice, though not so nice that you're afraid to shoot it. All for a decent price.

I appreciate everyone's expertise.

[HackerF15E]

The basic rule of thumb is to buy real USGI manufacture and not to buy commercial Carbines (especially Universal, but others too).

There are obviously exceptions to this rule, but rare.

My advice would be to monitor the classifieds at the CMP forum and nab the first USGI carbine that is in your price range.

Good reading here:
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/rifles.html

[SurplusShooter]

+1 to what HackerF15e said.

I will add that even a USGI M1 Carbine is not guaranteed to be trouble-free. These things are old, and it's been a while since CMP refurbished/sold then.
Make sure you get a statement from the seller that it functions and fires fine, "any jams?" Etc, for whatever little its worth. Magazines can be problematic on some.
Do you reload for 30-Carbine? That cartridge is starting on its way to obscurity, IMO.

Some of the old GI makes can be more expensive due to collector's value, eg National Postal Meter or IBM, etc. Usually Inland (GM) is a common and affordable one from ww2 era.
Lately, it looks like a "shooter" M1 carbine in decent condition starts at around $800, and up from there.

[lurpygeek]

Thanks all for the input.

I saw an Inland a few months ago that I probably should have bought, but I was in the shop to buy something else. It had dark wood (probably some of that was grease), but the bore looked good and it was only about $450.

Since that time everything I have seen was either beat to crap or a poorly-made duplicate.

Does the metal heat shield vs. wood say anything significant about the carbine? The one I mention above had the metal shield.

[SurplusShooter]

_Usually_, a metal handguards/heat shield indicates a commercial carbine. That is how commercial manufacturers made them after WW2.
Not always, it is possible someone swapped handguards, and infact some of the post-war made M1 Carbines were made with USGI surplus parts.

[Wake27]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105336

[HackerF15E]

Now that we've got the basic USGI-vs-commercial Carbine mantra on the table, here's some reading about one of the better commercial copies: the Kahr / Auto Ordnance:

http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Reviews/AOCarbine/index.html

[kiwi57]

I've wanted an M1 carbine since I used to watch COMBAT as a kid in the 1960's (thought Lt Hanley was a pretty cool character). Finally started researching in 2008-09 and discovered the Kahr Auto Ordnance (AO). Scattered reviews were mixed with feeding problems leading the complaints I read. I purchased it anyway solely as something to enjoy, not use seriously. Thought the construction was good. First magazines (Kahr manufacture) were a nightmare with 5-6 failures to feed/mag. Privi was the most problematic (never tried the SP variety--sure it would have choked even worse); I had better luck with Remington and Federal FMJ. After about 500-600 rounds, it started to smooth out and became much more reliable which is good as I was tempted on several occasions to bash it against a tree. Trashed the Kahr mags. I don't know if subsequent production runs have resolved the feeding issues.

Last year I had a hankering for a surplus shooter and found one for $800-900 on a website based here in Salt Lake City (old guns.net). Standard Products, Marlin barrel, arsenal refurbished mixmaster originally built in 1943, no import stamp. Barrel in great shape. I rebuilt the bolt, replaced the FCG, and purchased about a dozen USGI mags (very hard to find now except at triple the price I paid) and stumbled on to a great deal for Surplus Lake City Carbine Ammo 50rd Boxes with '71-'72 head stamps. Got it for $28/box from my LGS and after shooting one box--I went back and bought him out. This is great ammo. The only other place I've found this is for $10 more per box at: http://www.ammogarand.com/30-m1-carbine-lake-city-500rds-in-boxsc.html. Given that I only shoot the carbine 3-5 times a year, I should be set for awhile with my current stock, but will be on the lookout if it resurfaces at a lower price. Did I say this is great ammo?

When I sold the AO 4-5 months ago for $500, it was probably 90-95% reliable with USGI surplus mags and Fed/Rem FMJ.

I'm not a collector, just a hobbyist, when it comes to the M1. It is a fun gun to shoot that is an absolute kick in the pants. I'm a little large for the carbine's size, but I really don't mind. Not sure I would replace my current HD options with it, however. From what I've read, there are more cons than pros given the plethora of competing options. I have no trouble consistently hitting steel silhouettes at 200 yards and hit ~5/10 at 300 yards (guesstimates with old eyes). It is a favorite of folks I take shooting who have limited experience. Good intro gun.

I'd go surplus, hands down. Patience, knowledge, and selectivity were key for me. There are dozens of websites with great buying info and tips. I spent a few weeks finding out what to look for. There are a series of excellent vids done by norwich93CMP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_T3F24nWcc) that are an absolute must-see, in my opinion. In fact, I've downloaded all of them. He is matter of fact, concise, extremely knowledgable, and he does a great job with the technical aspects of his productions. Do not attempt to rebuild a carbine bolt before watching his vid 2-3 times (ask me how I know). Lots of surplus tools & parts are available at surplus sites for reasonable prices. I'm waiting for the people who gobbled up most of the USGI mags during the panic to start selling them at a loss before I grab a handful more.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I do hope there are a couple tidbits here you can use.

kiwi57

[Armati]

The M1 is the original defensive carbine.

Years ago, I had a old Inland that ran like a sewing machine. It was the only thing I could afford at the time. I really wish I never sold it.

If you want a shooter, check out the Kahr/Auto Ordnance M1. The original guns are rapidly becoming too valuable to shoot.

At the moment, blaster ammo can be had for below 30 cents a round. Cor-Bon makes an excellent 100gr round using the Barnes TSX all copper bullet for defensive purposes. It should handle any two or four legged varmints.

[Armati]

http://www.thecmp.org/sales/pdfs/Carbine_30_Round_Magazines_September_2007.pdf

And here is some good info on identifying USGI 30 round mags.

[HackerF15E]

At the moment, blaster ammo can be had for below 30 cents a round.

Reloads or factory ammo? I haven't seen any factory ammo below 40 cents for over a year, and that was Tula.

[Armati]

Reloads or factory ammo? I haven't seen any factory ammo below 40 cents for over a year, and that was Tula.

Yes it's Tula at that price and it usually sells out quick. Like I said, I am talking about plinking ammo. The good stuff will cost close to 50 cents or more around - about average for rifle ammo at the moment.

[HackerF15E]

Yes it's Tula at that price and it usually sells out quick. Like I said, I am talking about plinking ammo. The good stuff will cost close to 50 cents or more around - about average for rifle ammo at the moment.

I have shot a ton of Tula in .30C, and I have no complaints about it. The M1 Carbine has never been much of a sniper rifle to begin with, so Tula (and other Russian ammo) has always worked fine for the type of shooting I've done at the ranges I'm doing it at (plinking at 100yds and less).

I have been loading it myself for about $0.18/round, so even the prices Tula is going for these days are too high IMHO.

[HackerF15E]

I saw an Inland a few months ago that I probably should have bought, but I was in the shop to buy something else. It had dark wood (probably some of that was grease), but the bore looked good and it was only about $450.

Since that time everything I have seen was either beat to crap or a poorly-made duplicate.

The current market price in my neck of the woods for a shooter-grade import-marked USGI M1 carbine is in the $500-$800 range. The M1 is in my experience a pretty robust design, so even the USGI "beaters" are generally good enough plinkers.

As for what to look for -- once you've located a GI gun, the next thing I'd check is the bore for condition. If you have a .30 bore gauge, that's the best to measure with, but failing that you can do the "bullet test" with a .30-06 (not a .30C) round.

Other areas of frequent failure are op rods that jump the track (either because of worn tabs or worn/damaged tracks) and flat bolts with cracked lugs.