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smith m4
08-30-06, 10:18
are these three rounds the same?

M855 62 grain fmj

XM855PD 62 grain fmj

SS109 62 grain fmj

if they are different ; what is different about them?

Submariner
08-30-06, 11:20
Quality Control on the first two. M855 is purchased by .mil; MX855PD is rejected by .mil for any variety of reasons.

The last?:confused:

SethB
08-30-06, 11:32
SS109 uses the same bullet, but may use different powder and brass, as well as lower quality control. Radway Green springs to mind.

SuicideHz
08-30-06, 12:02
Radway Green comes to mind as having a lower quality control?

I just received my 2x720 cans of RG from Aimsurplus and it's much nicer than the last case of federal XM193 I bought. Not a single dent or ding.

Manufactured in 1989 and is supposedly the Brits' version of M855. I forget what makes M855 "M855."

I checked and they are the correct bullets with the steel penetrator...

Smith- check this site- I think it's www.ammooracle.com

SethB
08-30-06, 12:05
SHZ,
All I know is that it is supposedly downloaded for function, and that a lot of people complain about it.

As far as it coming to mind, the bullet is the same, but the powder is different.

I'd rather shoot 55 grain anyway.

smith m4
08-30-06, 12:43
SHZ,
All I know is that it is supposedly downloaded for function, and that a lot of people complain about it.

As far as it coming to mind, the bullet is the same, but the powder is different.

I'd rather shoot 55 grain anyway.


Why 55 grain over 62 grain?

TOrrock
08-30-06, 14:39
SS-109 is the NATO designation for the 62 gr. 5.56 with a steel penetrator. M855 is the US version.

SOME British manufactured SS-109 was downloaded for the British SA-80/L85.....but not all of it was.

Out of a shorter barreled rifle, the 55 gr. M193 loads tend to fragment better than the heavier loads. This is especially true past 100 meters.

20" barrels allow M855 to perform just fine. There was some widely publicized issues with military M4's that use a 14.5" barrel that occurred in Afghanistan and to some extent Iraq. Many blamed the lack of stops on the failure of the bullets to fragment.....it could also have been shot placement.

PD ammo is widely regarded as "seconds", and some people have experienced some serioius QC issues with it.

SethB
08-30-06, 20:08
Templar, thanks.

The 55 grain is faster, more effective, more accurate, cheaper, and since I don't like to shoot through intermediate barriers (a few of ya'll know what I'm talking about) I'd rather not use a round designed for it.

SuicideHz
08-30-06, 20:15
If I give you all of the info on the side of the can, can you tell me if it was downgraded or not?

TOrrock
08-30-06, 20:19
I can't, but there might be someone who can.

Was the ammo packed loose, how old is it?

SuicideHz
08-30-06, 21:56
It was manufactured in 1989. It came to me loose with the bandoleers and stripper clips inside with the ammo. The tracers were all removed- hence 720 rounds in a 900 round can. The first can I opened had all of the ammo removed from the clips. The other can had 4 rounds on each clip- they'd removed just enough to get the tracers off.

The ammo was removed from the clips very recently. the rim of the cases is VERY shiny where they were held by the clips while the rest of the cases tarnished a little.

Robb Jensen
08-31-06, 04:54
are these three rounds the same?

M855 62 grain fmj

XM855PD 62 grain fmj

SS109 62 grain fmj

if they are different ; what is different about them?

SS109 is the 5.56x45mm NATO spec 62gr projectile which features a steel penetrator.

M855 is the US Military spec cartridge which uses this projectile. The US version is usually made by Lake City (Federal) or Winchester.

The US M855 has green paint on the tips of the projectiles to designate if from the earlier M193. The M855 will not stabilze in the older M16A1s because of bullet length in the older twist rate 1:12 in M16A1 barrels. M855 requires at least 1:9 to stabilze and the US Military uses 1:7 because of the very long M856 tracer. M856 is about as long as a 77gr Sierra MatchKing.

The Radway Green is designated SS109 but isn't loaded anywhere as hot as M855 ammo.

Hydguy
08-31-06, 19:39
The SS109 was developed by FN to be able to penetrate a NATO standard steel helmet at 300 yards, when loaded to the same specs as M855, when fired out of the M249.

The NATO 7.62x51 is unable to do this, and standard M193 will not, either.

Of course, the use of the heavier projectile required a faster twist, so that is why AD military uses the 1/7. At the time of changeover, the older M16-A1s were relegated to NG duty, and just to make sure that the M855 wasn't used in the slower 1/12 barrels, the military adopted the color coding of the M855.

STLRN
08-31-06, 20:31
Fm Navammologcen Mechanicsburg Pa//4315// To Aig 11005 Zen/aig 7613 Zen/aig 11253 Zen/aig 11480 Zen/aig 181 Bt Unclas //n08025// Msgid/genadmin/navammologcen Mech Pa// Subj/navy And Marine Corps Ammo Info Notice 041-05. In /conjunction With The Release Of Uk (united Kingdom) 5.56mm, /ammunition For Training And Combat, Storage And Shipment /to Europe And The Middle East// Ref/a/doc/navsup P-801/01apr2005 Rmks/last Ain Xmitted 121940zmay05
This Ain Applies To The Us Marine Corps Only.

Request Following Information Be Given The Widest Dissemination.

To Meet A Critical Shortage Of 5.56mm Ammunition, The Army Has Purchased United Kingdom 5.56mm Ammunition, That Were All Produced Between 1997-2001 And Are The Uk's Nato Standardized 5.56mm Ammuntion.

There Are Three Uk Configurations That Have Been Authorized As Interchangeable With Three Us Configurations. The Configurations Are Summarized Below:
Uk- Ctg. 5.56mm Ball, L2a2,
Carton Pack - Nsn 1305-99-978-3163 Az42
Uk- Ctg. 5.56mm Ball, L2a2,
Bandoleer - Nsn 1305-99-978-3427 Az40
Uk- Ctg. 5.56mm Clipped, 4 Ball/1 Tracer L2a2/l1a2,
Bandoleer - Nsn 1305-99-978-3426 Az41

The Recipients Will Prioritize These Munitions To Be Issued/used First. Each Of The Three Uk 5.56mm Configurations Was Compared Against The Corresponding Us 5.56mm Configuration For Performance, Safety, And Reliability By The Subject Matter Experts At Ardec To Assure Interchangeability. Based On This Review It Was Determined That All The Requirements, Stated By The Uk And Nato Specs, Were Met And That The Only Critical Issue Identified Was A Uk Finding That Stated A Problem With Failure To Cycle Malfunctions Experienced With Carbine, 5.56mm, M4 (1005-01-231-0973) Rifles Due To Difference In Rifle Design Between The M16a2 5.56mm Rifle And M4 5.56mm Carbine. Uk Ammunition Shall Not Be Used In The M4. This Ammunition Was Released For Full Use In The M16a2 Rifle And M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (saw) And Is Acceptable For Use In Weapon Zeroing And Qualification For The M16a2 And The M249. The Uk 5.56mm Ammunition Is A Ballistic Match For The 5.56mm: M855, Ball Round (the Uk Ammunition Does Not Have A Green Tip, But It Should Not Be Confused With The M193, 5.56mm Ball Round). Once Removed From The Packaging The Uk 5.56mm Ammunition Is Distinguishable From U.s. Made 5.56mm Ammunition By The Head Stamp, Which Includes Both The Nomenclature L1a2 For The Tracer Cartridge And L2a2 For The Ball Cartridge, The Letters Rg, Denoting The Manufacturer, And A Red Projectile Tip On The Tracer Cartridge. This Ammunition Will Come Packaged In The U.k. Standard Package (metal Can), Which Is Similar To The U.s. Standard Ammunition Pack For 5.56mm Ammunition. It Will Be Marked With The Uk Standard Markings And Nomenclature, Including The Nato Standardization Symbol "clover Leaf". The Us Assets Will Be Tracked By The Uk Nsns And The Nsns Will Be Tracked By The Assigned Pseudo U.s. Dodacs. Firing Uk Ammunition Will Increase The Frequency Of Weapon Cleaning Required. Any Malfunction/problems Experienced With This Ammunition Should Be Reported Through Normal Ammunition Reporting Channels.