7.62x54R "Gray Tip"

[ABNAK]

Have an friend who did 2 tours with the 101st in Iraq as a grunt (the first 2 times they went, 2003 and 2005). He has a Romanian PSL and was shooting it the other day. I asked what kind of ammo he had and he said it was Hungarian "Gray Tip" AP. He got it pretty cheap and bought a bunch.

I wondered aloud if it would pierce the IBA our guys wore, as Level III is rated up to 30.06 AP. He said "Hell yeah it will". Keep in mind that when he was there the Army still issued Level III IBA (IIRC they're issuing Level IV now).

Now, I'm not one to question a guy who was there and I sure as hell wasn't, but I'll guess he had no way of knowing what ammunition a sniper may have been using if one of his guys got hit. Even first-hand accounts can have an "anecdotal" ring to them sometimes based on assumtions and spoken as truth.

I guess it boils down to if 7.62x54R AP is a 30.06 level cartridge or a 7.62 NATO one. If it is the former then I guess it will penetrate the older IBA in use at the time.

Thoughts from the more knowledgeable?

[ClearedHot]

Keep in mind, a big reason why the .mil upgraded from standard SAPI plates to ESAPI plates was to address the increased threat from enemy snipers (and PKM machine gunners) utilizing 7.62x54R AP/API ammo.

The standard black SAPI plates were only rated for M80 Ball or equivalent ammo. The green ESAPIs are rated for 7.62x63 APM2 ammo.

So to answer your question, his "Gray Tip" x54R ammo will defeat an IBA vest with a standard SAPI plate inserted.

[Iraqgunz]

The only way to know if the ammo is Hungarian is by the casing. The Warsaw Pact used color coding to identify various types of ammo.

Most "silver tip" is 147gr. mild steel core ammo and as I recall it will defeat SAPI plates.

[LtNovakUSA]

From an experience I had in Kirkuk at the end of 2010, my BN had a guy that was shot at up in the turret of his MRAP with an AP round out of SVD - the shooter was about 50m away. The round penetrated the gun shield and went on to make a small divot in his XSAPI plate. Now I dont know what would have happened if the round didnt have go through the gun shield first, but the divot in the plate was VERY small - he didn't even notice it hit him at first.

Also, as far as I am aware, ESAPIs are not even used in theatre any more. We deployed with ESAPIs but drew the tan XSAPIs as part of TPE and werent allowed to go outside the wire without them. We still used the green side plates though.

[Heavy Metal]

I suspect anything that will stop M2 AP 30-06 Black-Tip will stop any standard 54R round without difficulty

[Armati]

I was in Bosnia in the 90s. The round you speak of is a 7.62x59R LPS. It has a mild steel core and will defeat the older LVL III plates at modest rifle ranges. Similar rounds have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan and are the reason the Army upgraded to LVL IV plates.

[Ned Christiansen]

The mild steel core in this and other combloc ammo doesn't even have a point on it. It goes maybe 1/3 to halfway up the ogive and then is truncated. It has a steel core simply as a cost-cutting measure and is far from being AP, although sure, it goes through more stuff than a lead-cored bullet. Our '06 AP has a turned, pointed, heat-treated steel core, it even has the boat tail on it. I have not found them to be center-punch hard like some people say but they are not just a piece of soft wire like the grey tips.

I have not seen X54R AP offered in the US, does somebody have it for sale?

[T2C]

Has anyone fired any of this?

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001092&dir=18|830|853

I fired a few thousand rounds of it through bolt action rifles over the past two years and it is more accurate than most Russian ball I have used.

[Iraqgunz]

I fired thousands of rounds of it through PKMs but not rifles and never for.accuracy.


Has anyone fired any of this?

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001092&dir=18|830|853

I fired a few thousand rounds of it through bolt action rifles over the past two years and it is more accurate than most Russian ball I have used.