View Full Version : Vintage M16A1 in use by a local LEO agency... tricked out
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20131004_130704_694_zps5d212336.jpg
I was surprised to see this old piece in use with a local agency while we were at a shoot together. They are really making the most of what they have. Aparrently, the M16 and the Aimpoint with mount were freebies from the government.
I figured this was the appropriate forum for this, but if not feel free to move it and continue discussion.
My agency received 400 of these rifles. Many of them were rebuilt at an arsenal and are like new. Some of them I shot are quite accurate.
That rifle will do everything they need on that configuration.
PA PATRIOT
10-12-13, 10:24
Thousands of departments are deploying those old war horses all over the country. While to long for house clearing they are acceptable for perimeter containment and active shooter use. The ones I have shot and seen shot (Over 30 at a time) were accurate and the only malfunctions were magazine related.
Voodoo_Man
10-12-13, 10:34
We have them on the streets right now.
The armory refitted them without auto ability.
We have them on the streets right now.
The armory refitted them without auto ability.
yup, the ones at this dep't are all without auto. The one pictured shot great, and was plenty accurate. not bad for free!
We have them on the streets right now.
The armory refitted them without auto ability.
Ours were converted to shoot semi-automatic only as well. Given their use, I believe this was a wise move.
It's good that these rifles were made available for use by LEO instead of being destroyed or sold to foreign entities.
IndianaBoy
10-13-13, 10:51
It's good that these rifles were made available for use by LEO instead of being destroyed or sold to foreign entities.
Absolutely!
4DAIVI PAI2K5
10-13-13, 11:18
Our office has a few. Most have different uppers and m4 stocks put on by the users.
I had an M16A1 in basic training. It did everything I asked it to do. The only thing I would recommend is going back to an A1 buttstock.
How's that 1:12 barrel with heavier weight bullets?
How's that 1:12 barrel with heavier weight bullets?
Accuracy tends to drop off when shooting anything heavier than a 62g bullet out of the rifles I have fired. The 62g accuracy is so-so, much like shooting 55g rounds out of a 1:7 twist barreled carbine we have in the armory.
M193 ball really shines with the M16A1 rifles we got from D.O.A. There are a lot of commercial 55g soft point loads on the market, which gives you options for defensive ammunition.
The D.O.A. M16A1 rifle program is a really sweet deal for a department on a tight budget.
My department has 3 M16s. Not A1s or A2s, original M16s with no forward assist or shell deflectors.
Here's mine....
Before:
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/M%2016/P1010230.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/M%2016/P1010230.jpg.html)
After:
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/M%2016/50D36070-DA58-4B16-9EC5-A0046BE63EAF-9146-0000039827F3B5F9_zps6721401d.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/M%2016/50D36070-DA58-4B16-9EC5-A0046BE63EAF-9146-0000039827F3B5F9_zps6721401d.jpg.html)
Army Chief
10-17-13, 08:51
My department has 3 M16s. Not A1s or A2s, original M16s with no forward assist or shell deflectors.
Here's mine....
Before:
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/M%2016/P1010230.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/M%2016/P1010230.jpg.html)
After:
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/M%2016/50D36070-DA58-4B16-9EC5-A0046BE63EAF-9146-0000039827F3B5F9_zps6721401d.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/M%2016/50D36070-DA58-4B16-9EC5-A0046BE63EAF-9146-0000039827F3B5F9_zps6721401d.jpg.html)
I see what you did there. Completely took up the old linoleum floor tile and laid some proper stone. Nice. ;)
Am half-surprised that the upgrades were allowed to go quite that far on the rifle, notwithstanding the obvious logic of getting them done. Must be working for a fairly enlightened department/agency.
AC
I see what you did there. Completely took up the old linoleum floor tile and laid some proper stone. Nice. ;)
Am half-surprised that the upgrades were allowed to go quite that far on the rifle, notwithstanding the obvious logic of getting them done. Must be working for a fairly enlightened department/agency.
AC
Thanks Chuck,
The new floor is spectacular......:D
Because we have to retain all of the parts from the original rifles, all we did was add collapsable stocks and used approved personal uppers. The can isn't approved, it's just on there for the pics. Duffy donated BAD A.S.S safeties so they match our existing semi auto rifles that are in our patrol vehicles. All rifles have ambi safeties.
Bandanabandit1
10-17-13, 22:46
I was always fascinated by what Dept's have in their arms rooms. I wonder if their are any older weapons (Thompsons, M14's, grease guns, etc.) still in use somewhere.
USAF procured rifles that were like the Army issued A1 but lacked the forward assist. They ordered everything without it. It was in the 60s significantly more expensive with the FA.
I was always fascinated by what Dept's have in their arms rooms. I wonder if their are any older weapons (Thompsons, M14's, grease guns, etc.) still in use somewhere.
We had a few hundred Department of the Army M-14's. The bean counters did not like the fact that .308 was more expensive than .223 ammunition, so they were put in mothballs.
Unfortunately, the rifles were transferred to another agency a few years ago.
Thanks Chuck,
The new floor is spectacular......:D
Because we have to retain all of the parts from the original rifles, all we did was add collapsable stocks and used approved personal uppers. The can isn't approved, it's just on there for the pics. Duffy donated BAD A.S.S safeties so they match our existing semi auto rifles that are in our patrol vehicles. All rifles have ambi safeties.
Excellent build. I'm glad to see that your dept in the Great State of Pennsylvania allowed that customization.
as far as other old rifles, there is a local LEO agency here in Michigan that does infact have a Thompson M1. Idon't think they carry it in a car anymore, but they do shoot it at the range for qualification and it is "on duty" at the barracks.
Awesome rifle, just awesome :) Thanks for sharing!
Bandanabandit1
10-22-13, 22:55
We had a few hundred Department of the Army M-14's. The bean counters did not like the fact that .308 was more expensive than .223 ammunition, so they were put in mothballs.
Unfortunately, the rifles were transferred to another agency a few years ago.
A few hundred? :eek:
A few hundred? :eek:
Yes. Several that I inspected were in outstanding condition. I fired two of them and they were really accurate rifles.
Yes. Several that I inspected were in outstanding condition. I fired two of them and they were really accurate rifles.
We got 3 of them and they were never fired.
We have them on the streets right now.
The armory refitted them without auto ability.
Same with out local sheriff dept. Got them all free for the guys that didnt want to buy/ couldnt afford their own ars.
Co-witnessed Aimpoint, offset mount light, and side mount sling... that is a solid setup. Definitely making the most of it. A friend asked my advice on the ideal setup for his old fixed carry handle A2 style rifle, assuming he didn't want to trade out his upper for a flat top, and those are the exact mods I recommended.
That said, I would much rather see all these old rifles going to the CMP for sale to citizens, minus the lower, as parts kits.
Co-witnessed Aimpoint, offset mount light, and side mount sling... that is a solid setup. Definitely making the most of it. A friend asked my advice on the ideal setup for his old fixed carry handle A2 style rifle, assuming he didn't want to trade out his upper for a flat top, and those are the exact mods I recommended.
That said, I would much rather see all these old rifles going to the CMP for sale to citizens, minus the lower, as parts kits.
Unfortunately, the aimpoint didn't cowitness, but it wouldn't be hard to change that.
I too would like to see them sold as parts kits through the CMP. hell, they could even mod the lower to comply. But this government won't consider that, no way.
The guy who uses the rifle for duty has it in his head that he is going to buy it from the dep't when he retires, but that lower isn't going anywhere.
If you take that spacer out of the Aimpoint mount, it would probably co-witness. Yeah, no way in hell he's taking that thing home with him... no way it is in the Class 3 registry. For the same reason, they couldn't just mod the receivers to sell them into the private sector (unfortunately). Once a MG, always a MG according to the ATF.
We have them on the streets right now.
The armory refitted them without auto ability.
No fun switch??
Its great to see these M16's in service though.
Greenhead308
11-14-13, 13:39
That old A1 is pretty cool, I'd definitely take it.
If you take that spacer out of the Aimpoint mount, it would probably co-witness. Yeah, no way in hell he's taking that thing home with him... no way it is in the Class 3 registry. For the same reason, they couldn't just mod the receivers to sell them into the private sector (unfortunately). Once a MG, always a MG according to the ATF.
If an entity other than federal possesses an NFA weapon it must be registered on a tax free form. I think a 10. I am unaware of an exception for DRMO guns.
coastwatcher42
11-18-13, 09:05
I was always fascinated by what Dept's have in their arms rooms. I wonder if their are any older weapons (Thompsons, M14's, grease guns, etc.) still in use somewhere.
I'm not sure if they still have it, but as of about 5 years ago a small, local department had a Thompson. I've seen it but I didn't get a chance to inspect it closely to see exactly what model it was.
They are not a whole lot different than the newer series om M rifles..
These rifles are tough and serviceable. I really like the way they mounted the Aimpoint and Flashlight using what was already in place. It is retro cool, and modern features meeting. It is still way better than the setup used by Sontay Raiders and will get the job done. Nice. Thanks for sharing.
If an entity other than federal possesses an NFA weapon it must be registered on a tax free form. I think a 10. I am unaware of an exception for DRMO guns.
They did not transfer to the individual Departments because the Military still own the guns. And yes we took the guns home. Also, all of ours were select fire. We also received some M-14s minus selectors. My Agency just gave theirs back and purchased new AR's to issue to everyone.
We also received several hundred of these A-1s, still in grease and unissued condition. We do not allow individually owned rifles or uppers, but we do allow officers to modify their issued rifles within certain guidelines. Many end up looking very similar to the picture in the OP's post. RDS must be absolute cowitness, department armorer must make physical mods to the weapon (stock, safety, handguards, etc.). We also make them semi only, but they stay secured at a station when the officer is off duty.
We do have a Thompson and a few M1 carbines, all full auto, but they are demo only pieces, and not deployed.
No fun switch?
Full auto training costs money. Your everyday patrolman doesn't need FA for what they are doing. The LEO's I know have said that typically, only SWAT team members are trained aka certified for FA weapons.
The fun switch is for just that, FUN.
I was always fascinated by what Dept's have in their arms rooms. I wonder if their are any older weapons (Thompsons, M14's, grease guns, etc.) still in use somewhere. One of our local rural departments has 2 M14's with the happy switches. Completely useless unless shot off bi-pods. Same department had several Thompsons untill 10 years ago.
Amp Mangum
01-07-14, 19:57
My local small town PD has a XM177 marked lower in service.
NCPatrolAR
01-09-14, 08:28
Unfortunately, the aimpoint didn't cowitness, but it wouldn't be hard to change that.
I too would like to see them sold as parts kits through the CMP. hell, they could even mod the lower to comply. But this government won't consider that, no way.
The guy who uses the rifle for duty has it in his head that he is going to buy it from the dep't when he retires, but that lower isn't going anywhere.
As already said; ditch the spacer and it should co-witness. When we first started fielding the M68s we were given gooseneck mounts for the guns that still had fixed carry handles (our A2s) and there wasnt an issue with cowitnessing.
Another option is to pick up one of the adjustable gooseneck mounts designed by Bennie Cooley. They work like a champ and permit the use of a larger number of optics.
Mount (http://www.benniecooley.com/cw_adjmount.html)
Voodoo_Man
01-09-14, 09:06
No fun switch??
Its great to see these M16's in service though.
It's there, the lowers will accept it, but they put a "block" of some sort in. I have no inspected it yet, but I know its there.
I was always fascinated by what Dept's have in their arms rooms. I wonder if their are any older weapons (Thompsons, M14's, grease guns, etc.) still in use somewhere.
My hometown dept has M-14's
They use them for parades
They have the budget for new M4 types for patrol and ERT
I'm sure that this dept is not unique. Lots of old thompsons, reisings, AC556's, and M-14's stuffed in dept arms rooms around the country. Nobody quite sure what to do with them, so they sit.
Neat to see these old rifles being used again. I wonder how many guys with personally owned tricked out carbines pick these up and have that moment of realization of just how light and handy the old guns really are.
Lots of old thompsons, reisings, AC556's, and M-14's stuffed in dept arms rooms around the country. Nobody quite sure what to do with them, so they sit.
The smart ones sell them, or trade them for for weapons they need, because they are worth big money. The others keep them locked away, for fear of political backlash in what amounts to epic fraud, waste and abuse.
The local sheriff's office has 3 Thompsons. I think they are WW2 surplus. They sit in the safe. I am sure there is no paperwork. The local sheriff let me look through the safe years ago.
A local game warden carries a beat up M14 in his truck.
There they sit. The BATF has more important things to worry about than guns held by police departments.
We received some of the Milsurp 1033 M16A1s several years back. Boy was I shocked when I opened up the boxes to find we received NIB unfired rifles. The cardboard box was marked with several lines of codes and info as well as Colt's address and the manufacture date of 12/75. Upon opening, the upper and lower were apart and wrapped in the metallic looking paper. A cardboard rod was inside the bore and there was an accessory pack sealed in plastic with the magazine, sling, and manual. All shot great and were used on the street (semi-auto conversion done by armorer).
As far as other weapons, we have a dozen M14s (some in auto), an M2 carbine, and a woodstocked Reising (until a few years ago). The M14s were also military surplus on loan to us and the M2 has been here since forever with no one knowing how it came to be in our armory. I was lucky and a serial number search of the Reising showed it had been transferred to us in 1947 and properly registered. A dealer brokered a deal for us and we received close to $6,000 for the Reising in trade (used to purchase new M4s for a few of the SWAT guys).
Coolest gun was another nearby agency - they have had a BAR since the 1940s. It works and sometimes goes to the range for fun shoots nce the training day is done but it never sees the street. Wish it was in our inventory.
Excellent build. I'm glad to see that your dept in the Great State of Pennsylvania allowed that customization.
as far as other old rifles, there is a local LEO agency here in Michigan that does infact have a Thompson M1. Idon't think they carry it in a car anymore, but they do shoot it at the range for qualification and it is "on duty" at the barracks.
I believe every Sheriff's Department in Vermont had a Thompson at one point. I would think most of them have been sold. The LESO program allows you to upgrade the weapon but you need to maintain all of the original parts in case the weapon needs to be returned to the government. We had an inspection a few weeks ago. They looked at our M14 and M16. They asked to take photos of the M16 to use as an example of an upgraded weapon.
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