View Full Version : Question for AR Deer Hunters
The majority of deer hunters still hunt out of a stand. Ladder type, climbing, homemade, etc... which necessitates the need to climb to a elevated height.
We all know what a AR sounds like when the charging handle is racked. It's loud even when trying to do it quietly. Especially in the quite early morning just before dawn. No doubt game associates this metallic noise with humans and will shy from it.
Do you climb with the rifle already charged to avoid this racket?
I admit I've have done it in certain stands/locations. I don't like it at all and do it as safely as I can. I never do it with a tree climber. I don't hunt out of one much anymore anyway.
Why would you wait until you're in your stand? I know what you're answer will be of course (if I drop it while climbing up it can fall and discharge) but you should have a mechanism in place for just such a thing.
A simple sling will do fine for your typical ladder stand. If you use a wooden platform that was nailed up in the tree (as I used to) with no ladder beyond some random 2x4s then simply have a thin rope dangling from the seat area to the ground. Then you tie the rifle on at the bottom and pull it up from the top. Just make sure it won't be interfered with on it's way up.
Yeah, I've used slings and ropes.
Most of my stands don't lend themselves to this however.
I'm a big believer in concealment. Most of my stands are situated amongst a group of thick cedars, holly or pines with the limbs trimmed out just big enough to climb in and then see out when in the platform.
Safety selectors can be disengaged while the AR is slinged or being pulled up. I've had it happen twice over the years while walking with my AR in a two point. Snagged on a seam on my jacket or something. Not sure. I pay very particular attention to that now.
I've always been taught that it is not safe and therefore not a good idea. You can see I always heed the advice of my hunting mentors. :D
Accidents are called accidents for a reason. I'm just curious as to how many take the chance.
If you don't want to climb into your stand with a loaded weapon or charge it once you're in your stand, that really only leaves one option. I know it's frowned upon in most cases but you may have to ride the charging handle & utilize the forward assist. Might be your only option to be safe & quiet. If It were me though, I'd just climb up & charge it as I normally would.
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Yeah, I've used slings and ropes.
Most of my stands don't lend themselves to this however.
I'm a big believer in concealment. Most of my stands are situated amongst a group of thick cedars, holly or pines with the limbs trimmed out just big enough to climb in and then see out when in the platform.
Safety selectors can be disengaged while the AR is slinged or being pulled up. I've had it happen twice over the years while walking with my AR in a two point. Snagged on a seam on my jacket or something. Not sure. I pay very particular attention to that now.
I've always been taught that it is not safe and therefore not a good idea. You can see I always heed the advice of my hunting mentors. :D
Accidents are called accidents for a reason. I'm just curious as to how many take the chance.
What can I say. Better safe than sorry but if you ask me you're over thinking it. Did a lot of hunting as a teen into my thirties and never found myself struggling so deeply with this relatively simple issue.
If you don't want to climb into your stand with a loaded weapon or charge it once you're in your stand, that really only leaves one option. I know it's frowned upon in most cases but you may have to ride the charging handle & utilize the forward assist. Might be your only option to be safe & quiet.
This. If you get to your stand early, it won't be a problem.
Oh I'm not struggling with it at all. I do it more often than not.
And I DO think about it every time I do it.
Like I said, just curious as to who else does it. That's all.
I won't climb a treestand with a loaded rifle. I won't pull a loaded rifle up to my stand, either. You can charge an AR near silently with a little practice. I can charge the rifle as quietly as I can get in a metal ladder stand or climber. The secret is going slow. Make sure and catch the dust cover as it opens and pay special attention to when the bolt locks. Then justify that forward assist.
This. If you get to your stand early, it won't be a problem.
Not if you are in between a bedding and feeding area.
Deer tend to not forget such sounds very readily.
I can charge the rifle as quietly as I can get in a metal ladder stand or climber. The secret is going slow. Make sure and catch the dust cover as it opens and pay special attention to when the bolt locks. Then justify that forward assist.
I tried that once. Had even practiced it.
Had the hammer fall with a click while sighted in on the back of a does head at 10 yds. Used the forward assist when charging it too. By the time I racked the CH she and the other two took off.
I muffed it good.
Sounds like you'd be better off choosing a different style rifle for deer hunting.
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Devildawg2531
10-13-13, 11:17
The majority of deer hunters still hunt out of a stand. Ladder type, climbing, homemade, etc... which necessitates the need to climb to a elevated height.
We all know what a AR sounds like when the charging handle is racked. It's loud even when trying to do it quietly. Especially in the quite early morning just before dawn. No doubt game associates this metallic noise with humans and will shy from it.
Do you climb with the rifle already charged to avoid this racket?
I admit I've have done it in certain stands/locations. I don't like it at all and do it as safely as I can. I never do it with a tree climber. I don't hunt out of one much anymore anyway.
When hunting from a stand with an AR I would engage the safety, sling my rifle across my chest and pay attention to keep everything out of the trigger guard. Have never had an issue. Why would you wait until you climb imto the stand and then rack the charging handle?
When hunting from a stand with an AR I would engage the safety, sling my rifle across my chest and pay attention to keep everything out of the trigger guard. Have never had an issue. Why would you wait until you climb imto the stand and then rack the charging handle?
Try attending a Hunters Saftey Class 101 to fimd the answer to that question and many more like it...:rolleyes:
It is not a good idea. No game is worth the risk of your life or injury. It is a risk and a personal choice.
Again, I do it and most likely will continue to do it at my own peril.
I have any number of guns I hunt deer with. An AR is only one of them.
I don't think I'm the one overthinking this here.
I just asked a question. Not looking for any advice.
It is not a good idea. No game is worth the risk of your life or injury. It is a risk and a personal choice.
Again, I do it and most likely will continue to do it at my own peril.
I have any number of guns I hunt deer with. An AR is only one of them.
I don't think I'm the one overthinking this here.
I just asked a question. Not looking for any advice.
Didn't mean to come off wrong and your question has legitimacy because as we know people have died due to such accidents. But I maintain that this is a degree of over analysis. If you aren't using a ladder and the tree is so thick you think that somehow the safety will be disengaged and the the trigger pulled charge quietly in the tree. There are no other practical alternatives beyond a trigger lock of some sort.
Devildawg2531
10-13-13, 17:16
Try attending a Hunters Saftey Class 101 to fimd the answer to that question and many more like it...:rolleyes:
Yes been to a couple of those. I would say that if I clumsy enough to not be able to climb a ladder without disengagiing the safety and dropping a weapon that maybe hunting requires to many motor skills and need to pick up a new hobby. Let me guess you either don't CCW or you carry on an empty chamber? Better safe than sorry.
Try attending a Hunters Saftey Class 101 to fimd the answer to that question and many more like it...:rolleyes:
Bullshit, maybe your weapon handling skills aren't up to par. I've climbed walls, ladders, and other obstacles in combat with a loaded weapon. So what is so taboo about climbing a ladder into a tree stand with a round chambered?
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Devildawg2531
10-13-13, 17:45
Bullshit, maybe your weapon handling skills aren't up to par. I've climbed walls, ladders, and other obstacles in combat with a loaded weapon. So what is so taboo about climbing a ladder into a tree stand with a round chambered?
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Exactly. Almost 20 years of CCW and 7 years in the Marine Corps, lots of IDPA and gun games, years of hunting and ZERO AD's. But I follow a few basic rules (keeping the chamber empty isn't 1 of the ones I follow) and use my brain to assess the situation. Hunters safety courses and the ilk are dumbed down to lowest common denominator.
Exactly. Almost 20 years of CCW and 7 years in the Marine Corps, lots of IDPA and gun games, years of hunting and ZERO AD's. But I follow a few basic rules (keeping the chamber empty isn't 1 of the ones I follow) and use my brain to assess the situation. Hunters safety courses and the ilk are dumbed down to lowest common denominator.
Hunter's safety is generally for fuds, by fuds. I attended it when I was 12 and thought it was a load of crap.
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I charge my rifle (no matter the type) when I leave the truck. I have stumbled across a 6 point while making my way to the stand.
When I get to the ladder, I use a 1/4" nylon rope and a climbing rope "c-clamp" to pull the rifle up, after I get in the seat, with the safety on by attaching to the front sling swivel.
All of you last few are right. As you can see I was trying to be more diplomatic but AR variants are carried in combat and there are no threads about concerns that one might shoot themselves while on maneuvers or in training.
Sling it and climb carefully Scoby. You're 1,000 times more likely to fall during the climb worrying about it.
I charge the weapon when I get out of the truck. I generally hunt out of a climbing stand, and I sling it on my back and start climbing.
Another thing I have found out is careful manipulation of the safety on an AR because if you have a deer close they will hear it and will usually run away.
You literally JUST climbed into your elevated stand. What could seem more unordinary to a deer than that? More than likely you made some noise while climbing as well. So, if climbing up there didn't scare anything away, then most likely nothing is in the vicinity. You should have a free moment to grab the CH, pull the bolt back slowly and ride it forward. Then use the forward assist to close it home. No stinkin problem. Seriously, it takes only a matter of seconds to allow you to sit quietly for hours and hours afterwards.
Remember to remove the mag and clear the chamber before climbing down.
Thanks for all the replies. However, I think some of you need work on your reading comprehension skills.
Although I think about the possible danger, however remote for myself, in climbing with a loaded weapon, I'm not overly concerned about it. Nowhere did I say I was although I was brought up not to do it.
Nor did I ask what possible options may be available to me. I know what the options and the dangers are. I've been deer hunting for 40 years.
What I asked is "Do you climb with the rifle already charged to avoid this racket?"
That's all. Pretty much a yes or no question. Just thought it would be interesting to see how many guys do it.
Didn't know Jackie Bushman and his men would be here to tell me how to do it! I'm such a lucky guy!
Exactly. Almost 20 years of CCW and 7 years in the Marine Corps, lots of IDPA and gun games, years of hunting and ZERO AD's. But I follow a few basic rules (keeping the chamber empty isn't 1 of the ones I follow) and use my brain to assess the situation. Hunters safety courses and the ilk are dumbed down to lowest common denominator.
Maybe you should remember that not everyone, young or old, are fortunate enough to have family or friends to show them the ropes. Or have served time in the military.
Hunter education courses are important to these people and other people that happen to be sharing the woods with them.
I've climbed many a deer stand with a loaded, on safe, rifle without incident.
I've also hunted a lot of quail with the safety off because when the covey flushes I need to be ready. Never hurt myself or anyone else.
Same as the above dove hunting too.
You literally JUST climbed into your elevated stand. What could seem more unordinary to a deer than that? More than likely you made some noise while climbing as well. So, if climbing up there didn't scare anything away, then most likely nothing is in the vicinity. You should have a free moment to grab the CH, pull the bolt back slowly and ride it forward. Then use the forward assist to close it home. No stinkin problem. Seriously, it takes only a matter of seconds to allow you to sit quietly for hours and hours afterwards.
Remember to remove the mag and clear the chamber before climbing down.
Funny you should say this.
Just yesterday evening I took my daughter to a stand on a power line that crosses our property. We climbed in the stand and low and behold, a doe and her fawns were standing 60-70 yards away just down the hill from us. We never made a sound and they had no reason to evade.
Just so you know, I would never climb into a stand with any type of loaded gun with my daughter along. Never.
It's good she chose a bolt gun for this occasion.
Thanks for all the replies. However, I think some of you need work on your reading comprehension skills.
The fact that you started this thread was evidence you are concerned about the idea of climbing the tree loaded. Then there is the following:
Safety selectors can be disengaged while the AR is slinged or being pulled up. I've had it happen twice over the years while walking with my AR in a two point. Snagged on a seam on my jacket or something. Not sure. I pay very particular attention to that now.
I've always been taught that it is not safe and therefore not a good idea. You can see I always heed the advice of my hunting mentors.
Accidents are called accidents for a reason. I'm just curious as to how many take the chance.
Which seems to contradict your second to last post:
Although I think about the possible danger, however remote for myself, in climbing with a loaded weapon, I'm not overly concerned about it. Nowhere did I say I was...
If you read both you should be able to quickly determine that accusing us of reading comprehension issues was a mistake.
The fact that you started this thread was evidence you are concerned about the idea of climbing the tree loaded. Then there is the following:
Safety selectors can be disengaged while the AR is slinged or being pulled up. I've had it happen twice over the years while walking with my AR in a two point. Snagged on a seam on my jacket or something. Not sure. I pay very particular attention to that now.
I've always been taught that it is not safe and therefore not a good idea. You can see I always heed the advice of my hunting mentors.
Accidents are called accidents for a reason. I'm just curious as to how many take the chance.
Which seems to contradict your second to last post:
Although I think about the possible danger, however remote for myself, in climbing with a loaded weapon, I'm not overly concerned about it. Nowhere did I say I was...
If you read both you should be able to quickly determine that accusing us of reading comprehension issues was a mistake.
Safety was not the context of my post. Read the part of the OP that has the question mark at the end of it. Looks like this: ?
My question was whether or not you climb into a stand with a AR charged or not to avoid the racket.
It was a question specific to the type of firearm and how a individual hunts with it. Not about safety.
Although someone could say...No, I do not climb with a loaded firearm. It is not safe. Fine. Safety is their first consideration and the hell with making noise. Perfectly good answer.
So I say, I don't like making all that noise on a hunt. So, safety is a secondary consideration for me at times.
Some of you are the ones who derailed this into a post about safety.
Didn't intend for this to evolve into a pissing match.
And Safetyhit, if I make a mistake, it won't be my first nor likely my last. But not this time brother. ;)
Safety was not the context of my post. Read the part of the OP that has the question mark at the end of it. Looks like this: ?
My question was whether or not you climb into a stand with a AR charged or not to avoid the racket.
It was a question specific to the type of firearm and how a individual hunts with it. Not about safety.
Although someone could say...No, I do not climb with a loaded firearm. It is not safe. Fine. Safety is their first consideration and the hell with making noise. Perfectly good answer.
So I say, I don't like making all that noise on a hunt. So, safety is a secondary consideration for me at times.
Some of you are the ones who derailed this into a post about safety.
Didn't intend for this to evolve into a pissing match.
And Safetyhit, if I make a mistake, it won't be my first nor likely my last. But not this time brother. ;)
Just about any simple question posted on a forum can and will turn into an open discussion on things other than asked. It is just the nature of people reflecting off of others comments and posts. Don't take the safety tips personally, it's good for new shooters/hunters and everyone else to hear them repeated again and again and again...:)
I shot a deer last week from a kneel at ~35yds, running the charging handle as I crept to that distance. 5 seconds and 64 grains later, the buck wasn't hearing anything.
I think we can have this discussion without catty comments about the comparative abilities of those exercising certain options and methods.
It's a cost:benefit, with no small assessment of individual ability and attention to detail. It's not about being a fud or a stud, it's about your math and margin of error.
Hunter safety education..."for fuds, by fuds?" I'd not be so quick to dismiss the only formal firearms education most will ever take. Nor would I dismiss or denigrate an entire population delivering and attending it. You might be surprised at who is attending, why they are there, and what they are hunting with. I enjoyed the hunter safety course I took last year, learning several new tidbits from the 20-something "fuds" teaching it.
I used my ar to deer hunt for the first time last year. after hearing all the horror stories I always lift my gun up to my stand unloaded. the 3rd or 4th day of gun season, I did my normal routine and loaded once I was seated. no more than 5 minutes later I had dinner walk right under my stand. I really don't think the sound relates to danger to them.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Although, I think a person can load a rifle (AR or otherwise) pretty quietly if you're patient enough.
I have shot a hog or coyote one second, only to have a deer come trotting by just a few minutes later. I think the noise may be overated in some cases.
One thing a person can do is get in the stand earlier (say an hour before shooting light), then load. One will have plenty of time for things to "quiet down" before it's legal to start shooting critters.
Finally, I would also check the laws. In some counties or municipalities, it is (or used to be) illegal to have your rifle loaded until you're were so far off the ground in a stand. I have hunted such a place in Virgina.
Why couldn't you "ride" the handle forward and use the forward assist to assure it went into battery. That would seem to be a relatively quiet way of doing it...
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