View Full Version : Black Rain Rifles
Shotgun Jeremy
10-14-13, 13:23
My brother wants to get a high end AR and found Black Rain Rifles. Are these guns just expensive because they look pretty , or are they actually up there with DD, LaRue, and Noveske I can't find too much when it comes to build quality of them. I heard talk that they use DPMS bcg's (for that price tag, I'm not impressed), but that's about it so far.
They are a pretty rifle, but nothing that i have seen justifies their price point. I would pass.
Why buy Black Rain when you can get a KAC?
Why buy Black Rain when you can get a KAC?
This!^^
For the money they are asking, get a KAC SR-15 and he will be MUCH better served. If he wants to spend that kind of money, you simply can't beat the SR-15, in my opinion.
SilverBullet432
10-14-13, 14:07
This!^^
For the money they are asking, get a KAC SR-15 and he will be MUCH better served. If he wants to spend that kind of money, you simply can't beat the SR-15, in my opinion.
You'd be stupid to buy a black rain or pof over a KAC! Remember: KAC's are the ferrari of the AR world, me want!!!
If you want a pretty, high end rifle get an LWRC. If you want pure function get the ddm4 or the predatar 5.56 rifles. The black rain rifles are unimpressive to me and if they really do use DPMS parts steer clear for that price.
I am a big fun of Colt, Black Rain, and KAC.
If I drop $2000.00 or more on a AR, its going to be a KAC SR15 SBR.
As of now I have all 3 brands in the safe.
I have dropped 1800. in a black rain gun one time and loved it, but the Knights is the way to go.
Black Rain Milled guns are very nice and sweet, but as said above, I just do not think its the way to go at price point.
I am putting together a Black Rain Lower and upper together for a friend, but I go a lot of AT parts that I was not using and kinda getting out of ARs an back into the HK guns again.
Grand58742
10-14-13, 14:27
Seen a couple in the BX before on base and laughed when I saw the price tag. But they sure are pretty...
However, check out their web site. Any AR manufacturer these days that doesn't list the minimum specifications on their goods is asking for trouble. Or information that makes you say "huh?" like the fact the receivers are "milled." Well, all receivers are milled to some extent. And that flash suppressor is straight up awesome...(sarcasm meter should be on with that one) They do show a NiB BCG that appears to be staked properly, but no top shot to be certain and with no way of telling if it's MPI at a minimum. For the price they ask, it had better be. The barrels are SS with polygonal rifling, so there is that, but again, no mention of MPI or HPT. Kokalis in Shotgun News did a review where he talked more about the accessories than the rifle itself.
Looking at the manual for their rifles, they list several brands of ammo that is not to be used because of pressure problems (Israeli, South Korean, South African) or "because the lacquer melts off of steel case" and won't cover the warranty if one was to use it. For the money they ask, that thing had better be eating whatever I throw in the chamber and begging for more.
For me, I just can't get past the way they name their rifles with the company initials. BRO. Just keep seeing some idiot from Jersey Shores screaming "Bro! Bro!"
Anyway, like others have stated, if you are going to drop that much on a rifle, go Knights. Or go with a BCM and spend the rest of the money you saved on ammo, optics, a light and mags.
Shotgun Jeremy
10-14-13, 14:48
Thanks for the tip on Knights Armament. I forgot about them. I'm trying to steer him elsewhere. I was pushing for a LaRue since we live in Tx and they're made here, but he doesn't seem to have the patience for that wait time. I'll have him check out the KA website. I wouldn't mind a DD, myself...one of these years lol
SilverBullet432
10-14-13, 15:10
The year long wait for a larue is killer! I wouldnt mind an OBR myself ;)
If you are going to spend $2k the SR15 is the only option. But hurry because supposedly they are shutting off the civi side of manufacturing until they can catch up.
Daniel defense is a great option too for less that $2k, and, and, and......NO wait time!
Singlestack Wonder
10-14-13, 17:34
Daniel defense is a great option too for less that $2k, and, and, and......NO wait time!
+1. Why pay high dollars for a KAC when an as good (or maybe better) rifle is much less. ;)
+1. Why pay high dollars for a KAC when an as good (or maybe better) rifle is much less. ;)
Larry did beat the hell out of one in the torture testing they did. I know a lot of high end rifles will probably perform the same, but they proved the Daniel defense would without a doubt.
And I'll tell you what. Idk why anyone chooses eotech over aimpoint after watching that video.
+1. Why pay high dollars for a KAC when an as good (or maybe better) rifle is much less. ;)
Seriously...
Cabelas by me had DD's in the gun rack last time I checked, and the prices were somewhere within reason.
I have to disagree that KACs are the Ferraris of the AR world; I've heard from several places that Ferraris are underpowered and they cherry pick cars for the mag reviews.
KAC is the NissanGTR/ 911 Cayman of the AR world: those who really want performance and really understand ARs buy them.
BRO is just charging for 'bling' on something that doesn't ever need that level of 'bling'.
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needsmoregarlic
10-14-13, 17:55
Daniel defense is a great option too for less that $2k, and, and, and......NO wait time!
+2. As for aesthetics there are many different opinions. Personally a pic of my V1 received over 2000 likes on Instagram. I'm sure if he buys any of the rifles mentioned in this thread he'll be pleased.
Wow... Just visted the BRO site, 10 minutes ill never get back. Very cheesy. I can see that all the extra money goes into the excess machine work. Barely a single part appears to have escaped the "XTREME!" treatment Americans are coming to love. Im half surprised it doesn't have a sculpted trigger finger rest for all the selfies and photo ops your sure to find yourself in as the owner of a BRO rifle. I couldnt find a single technical spec anywhere on the site.
By the looks its probably a closer relative to the Coach purse than the M16/M4 FOW
+1. Why pay high dollars for a KAC when an as good (or maybe better) rifle is much less. ;)
Having owned both its a serious stretch to consider a dd rifle equal to, much less better than an sr15. But for the price point the dd rifles are tough to beat.
Take a look at the BCM rifles that Grant has on his site. I would choose one of those well before I would get some "Black Rain".
BRO is pretty cheesy. Just one step above the rifle with a set truck nuts.
For $2k, I'd pick a KAC MOD 1 all damn day. Those are some of the best ARs I've ever shot overall.
BRO is pretty cheesy. Just one step above the rifle with a set truck nuts.
Man dont give them any ideas! Nut shaped VG hanging off the rail:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::
Some of the BRO rifles look pretty ridiculous lol. It's a rifle, not a damn piece of art.
Why doesn't Black Rain have an ALL GOLD model with a few large diamonds tactically located?
Moose-Knuckle
10-15-13, 15:27
Very cheesy. I can see that all the extra money goes into the excess machine work. Barely a single part appears to have escaped the "XTREME!" treatment Americans are coming to love. Im half surprised it doesn't have a sculpted trigger finger rest for all the selfies and photo ops your sure to find yourself in as the owner of a BRO rifle. I couldnt find a single technical spec anywhere on the site.
Bingo.
Something tells me this brand is popular amongst the white framed sunglasses/Afflection t-shirt wearing crowd. :lol:
Edit to add: just look at their in house RIS, not even to spec. :rolleyes:
I got some Black Rain .308 lowers coming my way. Purchased because I wanted to get a few in case the CA ban went through (it didn't). Only got them because I couldn't find any Mega sets. But we'll see. Collecting parts to do at least one assembly (I don't call putting together AR's "building"). Hopefully they won't suck. Will share my experience when I get it all in hand.
number1olddog
10-15-13, 16:51
Not really into them as a whole but did pick up a BRO stripped billet lower. Got a really good deal for it at my LGS and it's nice but not worth what people are really paying for them. JMHO.
bluejackets92fs
10-15-13, 16:52
Seriously...
Cabelas by me had DD's in the gun rack last time I checked, and the prices were somewhere within reason.
I have to disagree that KACs are the Ferraris of the AR world; I've heard from several places that Ferraris are underpowered and they cherry pick cars for the mag reviews.
KAC is the NissanGTR/ 911 Cayman of the AR world: those who really want performance and really understand ARs buy them.
BRO is just charging for 'bling' on something that doesn't ever need that level of 'bling'.
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Ferrari's have the spontaneous combustion issue too. However, the GTR is a lot of show with out the performance and longevity of the performance. (pesky transfer cases)... That and if you use launch control your warranty is voided. At least with KAC, you can do what ever you want to it and know it will keep coming back for more.
Breacher 217
10-15-13, 16:56
During the last panic I sold a used BRO rifle that I had taken in on trade. I sold it for enough to keep $200 in my pocket and buy a new KAC SR15...they are not even in the same ballpark.
Ferrari's have the spontaneous combustion issue too. However, the GTR is a lot of show with out the performance and longevity of the performance. (pesky transfer cases)... That and if you use launch control your warranty is voided. At least with KAC, you can do what ever you want to it and know it will keep coming back for more.
It, I guess I picked a poor comparison. What I meant is that KAC is hotness because they are ironclad reliable and also look badass as a secondary feature, mostly because they have their own look. Maybe an Aston Martin or Maserati would be a better comparison.
BRO are just bling posers. The only people I've personally witnessed purchase one was a guy in fancy ripped jeans wearing an MMA shirt and driving a Mercedes bought a black and silver BRO just after Sandy Hook (he had ordered it before) >_<.
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BRO are just bling posers. The only people I've personally witnessed purchase one was a guy in fancy ripped jeans wearing an MMA shirt and driving a Mercedes bought a black and silver BRO just after Sandy Hook (he had ordered it before) >_<.
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Yup all about them fools looking cool. And using the bio hazard symbol is so over done but it will fit in with all the nauseating piles of slime green zombie machetes at all the crappy gunshows
Steer him towards a KAC or BCM. The LWRC M6 is a excellent option.
If he wants "fancy" get a Noveske.
Jesus, just get anything other than a BRO rifle lol. We gave a lot of good examples here and he won't be disappointed with any of them.
Shotgun Jeremy
10-16-13, 07:38
I agree. He likes to be flashy sometimes but I'm working with him to teach him flashy isn't always quality with guns. I don't have anything against a lower end gun (hell, i have a windham that works great for my needs). I just don't wanna see him pay top of the line pricing for a pretty medium range (at best) gun. He wants to put good money down on a gun, so I wanna make sure its not wasted.
Take a look at the BCM rifles that Grant has on his site. I would choose one of those well before I would get some "Black Rain".
This.
However, if you must have an AR with all the bells and whistles; KAC is the way to go.
Don't waste your time with crap like LWRC, POF, or anything that involves a DPMS part.
Boba Fett v2
10-19-13, 23:23
Larry did beat the hell out of one in the torture testing they did. I know a lot of high end rifles will probably perform the same, but they proved the Daniel defense would without a doubt.
And I'll tell you what. Idk why anyone chooses eotech over aimpoint after watching that video.
I watched that video and still chose an EOTech. Used the micro. Like the EXPS better. Not all of us are going to be dropping our personal ARs out of choppers or plan on getting ambushed with claymores. :rolleyes:
BTW, been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. I run my personal guns as hard as any gun the Army has let me play with. I'm confident the EXPS will hold up just fine.
I'm a KAC, Noveske, Colt, and LMT end user, and I would not personally endorse a company like Black Rain Ordinance who seems to be more concerned about selling an image rather than a quality rifle.
mastiffhound
10-20-13, 00:49
Wait a minute, this isn't a thread about the rifles used in the crappy 80's Michael Douglas movie?:D
Even in my short time here I've learned that using any DPMS parts in a rifle will turn it into a turd. It didn't take 10 minutes of my life to look at their site but I lost at least 5.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtMvZk83vf8x3Sh3Wrk101rqCYTwpz1mo3rJfhqQ76K42JJymt
Looks like they're using the Wilson Combat model for rifle sales.... rebrand random parts, make a couple proprietary-looking parts that offer no improvement on existing models, and put a gigantic price tag on it.
We had one of the top guys (one of the "designers") from black rain at work yesterday... They sure are proud of their stuff, he was a nice guy though. Kept talking about how their stuff is better made than DD and LaRue after I brought them up which cracked me up. They had a demo lower and upper there cut up to show internals. Still not impressed that much. I personally wouldn't buy one. I asked him about why they put KNS pins in a semi gun, his response was "just something all of us would put in our personal guns",gave me an answer to what they're about, looks. Don't need pins in a semi gun. Also one of our customers asked why they mark full auto, "cause we sell to a lot of LEO." Doesn't mean you have to do that dude, again, looks... Don't think I will ever consider buying one.
If I could afford 2K+ on a rifle, LaRue is what I would get, but I can't:( so DDM4V5 is about to get ordered instead! Just can't beat them for the price!
Second on the decent quality but nothing to justify the price tag or claims of superiority and absolutely nothing will ever justify marking a weapon with skulls and biohazard symbols. Stop being dumb. I cannot abide idiots perverting my passion.
Boba Fett v2
11-01-13, 22:06
We had one of the top guys (one of the "designers") from black rain at work yesterday... They sure are proud of their stuff, he was a nice guy though. Kept talking about how their stuff is better made than DD and LaRue after I brought them up which cracked me up. They had a demo lower and upper there cut up to show internals. Still not impressed that much. I personally wouldn't buy one. I asked him about why they put KNS pins in a semi gun, his response was "just something all of us would put in our personal guns",gave me an answer to what they're about, looks. Don't need pins in a semi gun. Also one of our customers asked why they mark full auto, "cause we sell to a lot of LEO." Doesn't mean you have to do that dude, again, looks... Don't think I will ever consider buying one.
If I could afford 2K+ on a rifle, LaRue is what I would get, but I can't:( so DDM4V5 is about to get ordered instead! Just can't beat them for the price!
I certainly wouldn't expect him to say their rifles aren't better than the competition.
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Take a look at the BCM rifles that Grant has on his site. I would choose one of those well before I would get some "Black Rain".
Black Rain.... So many jokes to be made in that name .... Must resist ....
Seen a couple in the BX before on base and laughed when I saw the price tag. But they sure are pretty...
...
For me, I just can't get past the way they name their rifles with the company initials. BRO. Just keep seeing some idiot from Jersey Shores screaming "Bro! Bro!"
...
This^10
When "BRO" came out about 6 years ago some friends and I jumped on a group buy. We got the billet match sets, dust cover etc with charging handle for $400. It was good quality and functioned 100%, I built it out and held onto it until they started all the craziness. Decided then to let it go.
IMO I'd stay far clear of them. IMO they aren't even pretty. Many models have rails too short, and exposed gas tubes, their finish on the guns is mediocre at best. IMO they are just blingy looking rifles for nothing more than dirt or target shooting or to impress the uninformed. The prices are staggering. IMO for the same cost as an LMT MRP or a Noveske, they dont even get close to the same ballpark. IMO just the fact their catalog is filled with SWAT and tactical pictures, all featuring their obsurd sci fi looking flash hider says enough. I'm sure all the swat guys around the country jump on this gimmicky crap all the time :rolleyes:
IMO if you want a blingy rifle get a LMT MRP, but, best off buying a BCM or Colt, and saving the extra $ and put a solid scope or aimpoint on it, get a good sling, and signup for some classes :)
Found it! I think I found their promotional singer.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA
Isn't 'Black Rain' that weird AR company that paints green Zombies all over their AR's? If so who would want an AR built from these guys???:bad:
KAC, Colt, DD, LMT or BCM for me! Oh, and w/o all the Zombie graphics please!
shutup&shoot
11-03-13, 09:47
Isn't 'Black Rain' that weird AR company that paints green Zombies all over their AR's? If so who would want an AR built from these guys???:bad:
KAC, Colt, DD, LMT or BCM for me! Oh, and w/o all the Zombie graphics please!
If you think that's strange I saw a magazine dedicated to surviving a zombie apocalypse. Of course all the ads were from companies that anyone here would steer clear of anyways.
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Mr Elbowseed
11-03-13, 10:20
If you think that's strange I saw a magazine dedicated to surviving a zombie apocalypse. Of course all the ads were from companies that anyone here would steer clear of anyways.
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My buddy bought me a book on it. It's written as a real survival guide. Pretty funny too read and flip through but as far as putting any of that zombie crap on my firearms no thanks.
If you think that's strange I saw a magazine dedicated to surviving a zombie apocalypse. Of course all the ads were from companies that anyone here would steer clear of anyways.
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No dpms zombie sportical love? Haha
shutup&shoot
11-03-13, 11:01
What's really bad is that as I was flipping through it a guy walked up and glanced and said "cool".
I said "not really".
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Isn't 'Black Rain' that weird AR company that paints green Zombies all over their AR's? If so who would want an AR built from these guys???:bad:
KAC, Colt, DD, LMT or BCM for me! Oh, and w/o all the Zombie graphics please!
That was when I really knew I had to dump mine quick. I just don't get the green skulls but I guess to each his own.
I cannot abide idiots perverting my passion.
Don't know if this is an original or not but it sums up my feelings nicely
thebarracuda
11-03-13, 14:14
BRO rifles are the ordnance equivalent to the unbelievably high priced purses my wife buys. They probably get used about as often too.
Holy smokes, I just looked at the webpage for the first time. IDIOT-fest! At face value it looks like a bunch of garbage parts from less than stellar makers, added on to some nicely machined receivers that the owners let their children design the accents/flair for.
Two piece gas block/front sight towers, gimmicky logos and finishes, a muzzle device that looks like a mace from old European castle warfare? Give me a break. A POS 1913 riser with POS rings attached to that? If you're broke and you can't afford rings that are high enough-check. When you're advertising your awesome super duper rifle and you mount it like the morons at the corner table at the gunshow selling knock off airsoft garbage, no thanks. What about the commando on the homepage whose US Optics variable is attached with only one ring? I don't know him, maybe he learned that some place totally badass. Doesn't seem legit to me though.
Companies that produce great stuff don't start off with gimmicks. Colt, HK, LaRue, BCM for example. Those are companies that produce great rifles. It makes me sad seeing Colt and Remington or EOTech making silly gimmick products. At least those companies still make good stuff. When a company comes right out of the gate with a logo that looks like that moronic EOTech biohazard reticle, I'd go the other way.
What about the commando on the homepage whose US Optics variable is attached with only one ring?
I've thought about doing this. The Aimpoint rings are twice as fat as a single ring on a 2-ring mount, so you still get pretty substantial bearing on a 1x4 optic, especially if you're using a short, lightweight model. An ADM mid-height mount weighs 3.3oz, compared to Larue's almost half-pound heavier scope mount. Bobro's lighter single-lever mount comes down to 7.5, but it's still a quarter-pound more, if you can get your hands on one. Total weight of around 12oz, potentially, with a minimalist optic- substantially lighter than the 16.6oz in Micro/magnifier I'm packing this season, which is already an improvement over the 23+ you're looking at for a more conventional setup (with better optic, of course).
For going ultra-light, I don't think it would cause any problems, so long as you didn't deliberately abuse it.
I was at the range last winter sometime and a couple guys stopped over to check out my rifle (DD M4 v5 with a TR 24). They seemed to be drooling over it so I offered to let them try it out and the one guy declined saying he has his own AR just a few benches down.
He started talking about how it was the only BRO with these particular graphics. I asked him how it shot and he said he hadn't shot it yet despite having it for 2 months. WTF. Then he goes on to say that he may not ever shoot it as "it may really be worth something someday." I told him good luck with that.
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