View Full Version : Battle Arms Development's new BAD-EPS (Enhanced Pin Set)
Hi guys, just wanted to share a new product recently released from Battle Arms Development for the AR-15 patterned rifle. While some have been tracking these pins for some time now as evidenced in this thread from BAD's industry sub forum.....https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=136218, I figured a less obscure thread would be appropriate now for them since they're now widely available for purchase.
So without further ado, let's take a look at these new pins from BAD...
http://www.shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/media/EPS6.jpg
Battle Arms Development Enhanced Pins set consists of the ETP (Enhanced takedown pin) and EPP (Enhanced Pivot Pin). Precison Swiss CNC machined from round stock steel bars, the ETP & EPP are case hardened and finished in milspec black maganese phosphate.
The EPS features the following improvements and features:
* AR15 Compatible - fits all AR15 lower receivers with mil-spec .250" diameter front pivot and rear takedown pin holes.
* Patent Pending Pivot Pin & Takedown Pin Head Designs - greatly improved gripping surface and pull strength without the use of oversize heads.
* Low Profile Pin Heads - low drag and never in the way. Lower profile than mil-spec pin heads.
* Ambidextrous Safety Compatible - the ETP (Enhanced Takedown Pin) head design does not obstruct the use of the right side ambi safety selector lever.
* Extended Pin Tips (+0.030" over milspec) - added tip length noticeably aids in starting/pushing the pins out from the left side of the receiver, without undue protrusion.
* Bullet Tip Guide - cone shaped recess at both pin tips prevent accidental bullet or tool slip and reduced the chance of scratching/damaging of the receiver.
* Patent Pending EZ Guide Channel & Magnetic Assist Install - Easy, hassle free magnet assisted installation of the EPP (Enhanced Pivot Pin). No more lost detents and springs.
Each BAD-EPS comes with (1) ETP, (1) EPP, (2) KNS hardened stainless steel detents, (2) 17-7 nickel plated stainless steel pin springs, and (1) high-strength neodymium magnet for hassle free magnet assisted installation of the Enhanced Pivot Pin.
Proudly designed and manufactured in the U.S.A.
Personal thoughts, and pictures, along with an overview/install how-to video.....
*** Disclosure....I received this product for T&E, and I'm friends with BAD Inc.
BAD Inc.'s Enhanced Take down pin (ETP) & Enhanced Pivot pin (EPP).... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ztUwx4BlM)
While evaluating these new pins, I've installed them several times into a pair of Colt lowers, along with a KAC lower. The EPS fit all three lowers perfectly, and were installed well within 5 mins. for each job. The EZ guide makes this process light years easier, and is no doubt one of my favorite features to these new pins. Another feature I really appreciate is the bullet guide dimpled pin heads for obvious reasons. Overall every aspect to these new pins has been refined over the factory pin design. In short, I feel they're a superior design, much like how the BAD selectors are a superior design in the world of AR selectors. Ultimately though, I'll leave it up to others to either confirm or deny my very positive assessment of the BAD-EPS over the course of this thread hopefully with their feedback.
Colt 6520 lower / BAD-EPS
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/62e8ccae-abad-4419-aa11-f28e25d9b3d1_zpsdf8c7900.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/62e8ccae-abad-4419-aa11-f28e25d9b3d1_zpsdf8c7900.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/ad6f13ca-7a14-40a6-b30e-e08476a2b63e_zps8981e6e9.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/ad6f13ca-7a14-40a6-b30e-e08476a2b63e_zps8981e6e9.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/df51a1cf-575d-42cb-b2cb-679de9cd8e45_zps454302b9.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/df51a1cf-575d-42cb-b2cb-679de9cd8e45_zps454302b9.jpg.html)
KAC SR-15 lower / BAD-EPS
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/3a508c5a-e98d-45b7-9215-efe7526389b4_zps5cbfc08e.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/3a508c5a-e98d-45b7-9215-efe7526389b4_zps5cbfc08e.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/0b9bc6e9-5200-4bd4-b4ec-e6a49f0ca3c8_zpsfe84212c.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/0b9bc6e9-5200-4bd4-b4ec-e6a49f0ca3c8_zpsfe84212c.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/33c19a28-4cdb-4a33-b9fd-bca9a0141f4e_zpsb9519166.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/33c19a28-4cdb-4a33-b9fd-bca9a0141f4e_zpsb9519166.jpg.html)
Thank you Alex :)
The pins had gone through so many development cycles until we finally found something we were very happy with.
Military moron's assistance in the project has been invaluable, I remember showing the pins to him at the range when the pins were of the same length as factory pins (our previous attempts at making them longer had made them too long), he mentioned 0.030" longer might work, and it really is the magic number. Both pins are 0.0.30" longer, just long enough to do what we ask of them, and yet inconspicuous and unobtrusive. MM also had input on the location of the take down pin's angled flat cut.
The one feature that some folks at TOS bagged on as a solution in search of a problem was the magnet assist feature. Lest the folks here get the same impression, please allow me to set the record straight.
The mag assist feature was literally a last minute addition. We were around the conference table, about to sign off on the prototype when installing the pivot pin took 3 hands (didn't have special tools), then it had occurred to us we could make this so much easier by milling a secondary groove and hole on the pivot pin to serve as a detent index (it normally wants to everywhere except where you want it to go and won't stay put ). With the use of a small magnet (included in the retail pins package), it makes installing the pivot pin actually kind of fun, but painless definitely.
It is a single use feature. Once the pivot pin has been installed, the magnet assisted install groove and hole won't provide more service to the user, unless you install / uninstall pivot pins all the time. The other features of the pins (0.030 extra length, bullet guide, surer grip on the pin heads, etc.) continue to be of use to the user.
It's the part that gets the most attention when folks talk about the EPS, but in our eyes (and in practice), because it's a single use feature, it's the least important aspect of the EPS.
Another thing I'd like to mention is the angled flat cut on the ETP (take down pin), it is NOT meant for a user to use his finger nail to get under and pull from. Once the pin is pushed in all the way from the left side, the flat provides additional surface area to pull the pin our further. If your fingers land on anywhere else on the ETP, there's knurling on the remaining circumference to do the same ;)
They've been released last month. The quantity was constrained, everything we shipped to Rainier was promptly sold out in hours, our own stock lasted about 1 day.
They are available on our site. We encourage our customers to buy from our dealers. Rainier Arms is out of stock again, but you can click on "Notify Me" Brownell's, Mike at ROG Tactical will have them in stock soon as well :)
This is what the retail package looks like:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/001_zps0d6fa91b.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/001_zps0d6fa91b.jpg.html)
Included in the package are the ETP and EPP, two KNS detents, two CSS springs, a small round magnet. In testing, a few users encountered issues stemming from various length springs and detents of unknown manufacturer. To eliminate variables, we include both the springs and detents. Also, in the process of removing the stock pivot pin, it's easy to forget the detent is spring loaded and let it fly into the carpet, never to be seen again. We've provided for that possibility by including the detents ;)
I want a set! Need a tester?
They've been through testing already ;) I'm sure m4c members that had been using them will grace us with their opinion soon :)
KAC IWS lowers
Bottom receiver has factory KAC pins.....Top receiver has the BAD-EPS installed:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/235c1675-74ad-4bc0-bb61-317733991d40_zps10e1e182.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/235c1675-74ad-4bc0-bb61-317733991d40_zps10e1e182.jpg.html)
Top receiver has factory KAC pins.....Bottom receiver has the BAD-EPS installed:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/ab68b807-e94e-4893-8f22-06c4e3d10292_zps2b247bf2.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/ab68b807-e94e-4893-8f22-06c4e3d10292_zps2b247bf2.jpg.html)
I would be happy to chime in.....:D
First of all, thank you Trident for posting this here. Word of the EPS hit M4C on August 6th and only after a couple hours, members are just learning about them from this thread.
I have been seriously building ARs for about 5 years now. Not to burst anyone's bubble but anyone is fully capable of building one. The ability to excel in building quality rifles, has more to do with the proper tools and a few tricks. Since 2009, I have been helping a friend of mine build rifles at gunshows. He is from Maryland and when he comes North, I usually give him a hand. His company is unique because we build AR rifles on site at the shows while you wait. As you can guess, the past several months have been crazy busy in the AR world and we obviously become very busy at shows. During a gunshow a week after the tragic shooting in Connecticut, we had 4 builders and I personally built 34 rifles in 2 days. Obviously, they have to be built right and built fast. This is where tools and tricks come in handy. Why does this matter? Well one of the most tedious steps in the assembly of an AR lower is the installation of the pivot pin, detent and spring. Is it hard? Nope but it sucks and people can tell you 57 ways to do it. Well the Battle Arms Development EPP just made it THE ONLY WAY to install this pin, detent and spring. extremely simple and extremely brilliant at the same time! No more detents in the eye!
I will also briefly touch on my observations of the rest of the EPS designs.
The slightly extended length of the pins makes it easier to assemble and disassemble your upper from your lower without being too long that they get in the way. I am a beta tester for Battle Arms Development because I am a shooter first. Not a collector or an assembler. I can say that the pins will not get in the way of any kit like other brands of extended pins. In the shooting world, subtle things are better than obtrusive things. I know you have seen pins from other manufacturer's that have huge knobs at the end that can get hooked up on your kit.
The bullet tip guide is great and as I told Duffy, they make a nice complement to your Geissele trigger and hammer pins if you have them.
The flatter heads and kurneling on the right side is another well thought out part of the design, however, standard pins never got in the way for me.
I haven't felt a difference in upper to lower fitment when adding these pins to my lower that has several thousand rounds through it. I hope by now, most are well aware that having a loose or looser upper to lower fit does not affect accuracy and your upper and lower will loosen up a bit as you shoot your rifles.
I really don't feel it necessary to comment on the machining or finish of the EPS as anything that is produced by Battle Arms Development has by far the finest craftsmanship. Call me biased but this is something you can see for yourself.
I'll end this with a pic or two:
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zpse75337a0.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zpse75337a0.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps948e95ec.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps948e95ec.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps18bbd62b.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps18bbd62b.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps4434f62c.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Battle%20Arms%20Development/null_zps4434f62c.jpg.html)
azngotskills
10-14-13, 19:23
Thanks for the insight guys, I will be building my 2nd AR and looking for an alternative to those extended "easy-pull" pins that stick out too much
As mentioned in a previous thread I installed the pins in several different lowers and had no issues with compatibility. The addition of the magnet install feature is pretty slick and pretty much negates the need for a pivot pin installation tool.
The addition of the front dimple which allows the user to use a bullet or similar object to push the pins out without it slipping off is an added benefit.
Thank you guys for your input.
On M4C, I can be confident of support when I say that a very tight fitting upper and lower that requires a tool (or bullet, more on that later) to break open does not serve the user.
It does not make the rifle more accurate, it seems to me, the only purpose is to give the customer the impression of quality, impression without true qualitative advantage. Personally, I have no problem with manufacturers that do that, they cater to a demand, just as we cater to a demand in the market. The issue here is some users harbor the illusion that tighter is better.. For a combat weapon, this is problematic, there are many examples in the history books.
When the rifle is so tight, it requires a tool or bullet to break open, this is time the user may not have, and this may be a tool he may not have on hand. On TOS a member made a snarky comment "so now a bullet is a tool, got it" :rolleyes: A device that's not native to our body that we use to accomplish a task, is a tool.
He may have rounds in the mag which he has to strip it out of in order to use it, this takes time better spent doing something else.
A tight fitting upper and lower then isn't what we set out to do. If a customer wants that, there are plenty of gadgets that can accomplish that, our pins are not for him.
Anyway, we set out to create pins that are easier to use without creating an interference to the ambidextrous selector's right lever. If we create a solution by introducing a problem, this solution then had better outweigh the problem it causes.
There are ways to solve problems without unintended consequences, provides these consequences are identified in the design phase and mitigated. The EPS has no known drawbacks we know of. The differences are subtle and don't attract attention to themselves, put together, demonstrate how even simple pins can be made to enhance the weapon's handling (specifically, the way the upper and lower can be effortlessly taken apart).
Our gear is made to go on combat weapons, they're not flashy, they just need to work and give the user any advantage we can design into it.
The EPS isn't for everyone. For those that have no problem pushing the pins in and pulling them out, you're all set. Given the myriad of manufacturers, if you mix and match upper and lowers, chances are the ease with which the pin can be pushed in and pulled out will vary, the EPS handles tolerance stacking very well ;)
The EPS is the second phase (the first is our selectors) of a Battle Arms LPK. The last known phase is the EMR (enhance magazine release), which is in development, hot on the heel of the EPS :D
I have been on the range several times in multiple areas where guys need to separate the upper and lower and couldn't do so without a tool of some sort. The obvious choice was the bullet tip because it was right in front of their face.
This is obviously the smarter choice than banging on the pins like I have seen people do with the corner of magazines, knife handles, or other shit.
Like you said, it may not be for everyone. But, for people that put together their own LPK's (as I do quite frequently) the cost of the pins, plus the other small items, QMS trigger, etc... still works out to a good kit for a decent price.
Thank you guys for your input.
On M4C, I can be confident of support when I say that a very tight fitting upper and lower that requires a tool (or bullet, more on that later) to break open does not serve the user.
It does not make the rifle more accurate, it seems to me, the only purpose is to give the customer the impression of quality, impression without true qualitative advantage. Personally, I have no problem with manufacturers that do that, they cater to a demand, just as we cater to a demand in the market. The issue here is some users harbor the illusion that tighter is better.. For a combat weapon, this is problematic, there are many examples in the history books.
When the rifle is so tight, it requires a tool or bullet to break open, this is time the user may not have, and this may be a tool he may not have on hand. On TOS a member made a snarky comment "so now a bullet is a tool, got it" :rolleyes: A device that's not native to our body that we use to accomplish a task, is a tool.
He may have rounds in the mag which he has to strip it out of in order to use it, this takes time better spent doing something else.
A tight fitting upper and lower then isn't what we set out to do. If a customer wants that, there are plenty of gadgets that can accomplish that, our pins are not for him. On TOS there are enough folks in that camp that made me question our continued presence there. As you guys have known, we try to share knowledge whenever possible, but it's impossible for someone to learn anything when he already knows everything.
Anyway, we set out to create pins that are easier to use without creating an interference to the ambidextrous selector's right lever. If we create a solution by introducing a problem, this solution then had better outweigh the problem it causes.
There are ways to solve problems without unintended consequences, provides these consequences are identified in the design phase and mitigated. The EPS has no known drawbacks we know of. The differences are subtle and don't attract attention to themselves, put together, demonstrate how even simple pins can be made to enhance the weapon's handling (specifically, the way the upper and lower can be effortlessly taken apart).
Our gear is made to go on combat weapons, they're not flashy, they just need to work and give the user any advantage we can design into it.
The EPS isn't for everyone. For those that have no problem pushing the pins in and pulling them out, you're all set. Given the myriad of manufacturers, if you mix and match upper and lowers, chances are the ease with which the pin can be pushed in and pulled out will vary, the EPS handles tolerance stacking very well ;)
The EPS is the second phase (the first is our selectors) of a Battle Arms LPK. The last known phase is the EMR (enhance magazine release), which is in development, hot on the heel of the EPS :D
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-14-13, 20:31
Warning, the following is a stupid question that I think I know the answer to:
Is there any way to install these without removing the castle nut and endplate? I dont mind removing my own installed castle nuts, but I hate to break the solid LMT staking.
Warning, the following is a stupid question that I think I know the answer to:
Is there any way to install these without removing the castle nut and endplate? I dont mind removing my own installed castle nuts, but I hate to break the solid LMT staking.
Yes but it a major PITA.
Take a trigger spring and push back on the detent as you slide the takedown pin out.
Next you will need something like a small flat screwdriver to hold the detent in place as you install the EDP.
It should take several minutes and several choice words....:jester:
KingsideRook
10-14-13, 22:54
They've been released last month. The quantity was constrained, everything we shipped to Rainier was promptly sold out in hours, our own stock lasted about 1 day.
They are available on our site. We encourage our customers to buy from our dealers. Rainier Arms is out of stock again, but you can click on "Notify Me" Brownell's, Mike at ROG Tactical will have them in stock soon as well :)
T
Looks very nice. I must say, can't find these on Brownells' website to set a notification - even searching by company name. Anyone have a link?
Here's how I did it. I used a seam ripper and used the tip to push the detent to the rear and then I stuck another take down pin in from the other side. I pushed that pin through and dislodged the other causing it to pop out. Then I pushed the detent to the rear again, trapping it briefly with the other pivot pin (from the left side) and held it in place while inserting the new pin from the right side. It took a couple of minutes, but I didn't want to scratch this particular lower or remove the staked A5 tube.
Warning, the following is a stupid question that I think I know the answer to:
Is there any way to install these without removing the castle nut and endplate? I dont mind removing my own installed castle nuts, but I hate to break the solid LMT staking.
The EPS is the second phase (the first is our selectors) of a Battle Arms LPK. The last known phase is the EMR (enhance magazine release), which is in development, hot on the heel of the EPS :D
Roger I am very interested in the EMR. I have yet to find one I really like. Let me know if you need a tester or when they are available for purchase.
Will be trying this soon and report back. Like the idea, especially on tight upper/lower fit ARs.
Warning, the following is a stupid question that I think I know the answer to:
Is there any way to install these without removing the castle nut and endplate? I dont mind removing my own installed castle nuts, but I hate to break the solid LMT staking.
Hello everyone, I am new to this site but saw this questions and decided to make my response my very first post :D
To install a takedown pin without removing the castle nut and end plate, I have had success with the following steps below. PLEASE MAKE NOTE that if you care about dinging your receiver, there is a high chance of doing so with this procedure. Be patient and take your time.
1. Remove your upper from your lower and keep the takedown pin fully extended out.
2. Grab a small flat head screwdriver like one that one would use for eye glasses and make sure that it will fit in the channel of the takedown pin.
3. Slide the tip of the screwdriver down the channel until it hits the detent. You will be able to see the detent.
4. Use the screwdriver to apply pressure to the detent enough to be able to remove the takedown pin. Some wiggling helps. MAKE SURE and have your new takedown pin next to you to grab quickly.
5. If you are able to, maintain pressure on the detent and place the new takedown pin in place to capture the detent. Then, just push it in and boom. Installed.
I have found that if you bend the screwdriver using a vise, it makes it easier to maintain pressure which is what keeps the detent trapped.
I hope this helps, if anyone has anymore questions, please feel free to ask! :)
- Nate
http://www.youtube.com/nsz85
More than once I've seen a local smith get a straight piece of spring with a diameter big enough to fill the channel. Pulls the rear pin halfway out, slide in the spring in the groove. Wiggle it around to get it under the detent. Rotate the takedown pin so the groove is away from detent. Slide in a piece of round stock that's snug in the pin hole. Slowly push out the pin with the round stock. Take the new pin and push out the piece of stock. Make sure the detent is engaged by trying to rotate the pin.
A little while back I watched him do at least 4 in a row in minutes. At the time it was for the Noveske marked pins, that some guys needed to make their rifles faster.
Hi Nate :)
For those that have seen Nate's video on the EPS (the one we actually sent to dealers before it went public on YouTube), Nate is a good friend of mine, and a good friend of Battle Arms. I've always asked him to give me the good, bad, and ugly without reservation, the same we ask of all testers regardless of our friendship, for they must remain impartial and frank.
We talked about the merits of including the detents and springs, Nate was a big proponent of their inclusion. Initially, the detents and springs were going to be optional. The reasoning behind it is for folks that already have them, they might not want to pay for them, and we need to keep the retail cost down.
After reports came back from testers, we have decided to include them for reasons mentioned previously: the elimination of variables (different lengths springs, variable quality and shape of the detent tips), and preemption of loss of launched detents)
Testers like Nate have lots to do with the production retail version we see today :)
Re: the EMR, I think you guys will like what you see. There will be more than one version ;)
Here's a full review of the EPS :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9soqaC-kO8
Where are these available for sale? I can't even find them on the BAD INC website.
Where are these available for sale? I can't even find them on the BAD INC website.
It's there.
http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/BAD-EPS-Enhanced-Pins-Set-AR15-BAD-EPS.htm
It's there.
http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/BAD-EPS-Enhanced-Pins-Set-AR15-BAD-EPS.htm
Thanks
ROG Tactical, Tacticallink, Rainier Arms too :)
Please support our dealers, thank you gents!
azngotskills
10-23-13, 21:05
Where are these available for sale? I can't even find them on the BAD INC website.
I got mine from ROG Tactical, very fast shipping. I have not installed them on my lower build yet but the build quality and feel is very nice just out of the box
Like the pins, but don't understand the flat cut in the head of the rear pin??? It's not like you can't start the pin by pushing it from the other side. It's keeping me from buying a few sets actually...
The flat cut is pretty self explanatory. Just makes it eadier to get your nail under it to pull. Even when I push it from the left side my sausage fingers can't get a decent purchase on the head unless I get a little extra space. Its the one feature that got me too purchase a set.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
The flat situated at around 1 o'clock is designed to provide a stable surface for a finger to get behind while pulling the take down pin, once the pin has been pushed in all the way from the left. The location of the fingers while pinching the pin head to pull it out can differ, we put the flat in the most often used position, but if your fingers don't land on or close to it, there's still the knurling for the rest of the circumference to provide positive purchase on the pin head :)
aguila326, the flat isn't for the finger nail to go under to open a wedget, but you're using it correctly all the same. The pins are 0.030" longer so that when the pin is pushed in from the left side (with the muzzle pointing away from the user), there's more on the right side to pull from. If your finger happens to be using the flat, it's great. If not (and I've found my fingers pinching in other areas), the knurling helps, so there is no wrong way to use it.
I'll be placing an order soon! ;)
Just ordered a set from ROG Tactical. Thanks guys.
Roger,
Received the pins yesterday from tactical link. The magnet trick is great and the magnet itself is 'pawr-full'. :) Makes the pivot pin very easy to install. It takes longer to get the old one out than to put the BAD pin in. The concave cutout on the side is also a nice touch. These are take downs pins so nothing earth shattering about them but they are very well thought out and of course well made coming from BAD. Nice work guys.
-Jax
elephantrider
10-24-13, 08:06
I have installed three of these sets so far and really like all the small touches that went into these.
Re: the EMR, I think you guys will like what you see. There will be more than one version ;)
Very eager to see what you came up with for the mag release. Any ETA on when the cat will get let out of the bag?
Thanks guys :)
The pins, as jax put it, aren't anything earth shattering. Pins are simple devices, the changes we made to the EPS are subtle, at first glance it's not easy to tell how they're different, and that's fine, we don't have our logo on the pin heads, but we may make a run with our new logo on them as a special.
1slow01Z71
10-24-13, 08:20
Excuse my ignorance but what does TOS stand for?
The Other Site (arfcom) ;)
Very interesting. I may have to try out a set of these when I can splurge.
jonconsiglio
10-24-13, 10:59
I guess this belongs here too. Installation of the front pin is very slick.
Posted this in the M4 General Discussion thread and figured it was fitting here too!
Got these from Roger many, many moons ago and installed them maybe 6 weeks to two months ago. Wasn't sure when I could post pics, plus I haven't been on that much lately....
Hybrid CASS-3p and BAD Takedown Pin
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/10392907853_befb0fe2d2_b.jpg
BAD Pivot Pin
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/10392680234_18b7682115_b.jpg
Really happy with the set I bought for my DD v7. Like others have said I dig the small details; concave ends, finger slot etc.
Nicely done.
ZINCOGNITO
10-24-13, 17:33
I guess this goes here too! They're worth every penny....
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/null_zps6fb52b24.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/null_zps48425745.jpg
As far as replacing the takedown pin.
1. I used a dental pick, put the pin in half out state, so plunger is not in the detent, pry plunger clear of takedown pin channel.
2. When plunger is clear of channel, I spun the takedown pin.
3. I installed the pivot pin I just exchanged from the front as a "slave" pin from the other side (left side) to hold back the plunger.
Note; I made sure to hold the takedown pin and pivot pin tightly together as they passed the plunger, and I made sure the pivot pin's channel wouldn't line up with the plunger.
4. With the pivot pin holding the plunger I put the new takedown pin in the hole and pushed them back through. Making sure the channel lined up with the plunger.
Lots of details and directions for 60 seconds of effort. No scratches, no cussing, no need to re-stake my Colt castle nut.
The dental pick was what made it easy, as well as making sure the takedown pin wasn't fully out so the pin would be seated in the detent. In the channel it is easy to get under, then just spin it and the takedown pin holds it for you. I also assume most of us do the front pivot pin first, so you have the old one sitting there, perfect for use as a slave pin.
Oh, by the way.
I concur with everyone else, they are terrific. I can't believe how such simple modifications can make something this much better.
I have been using the Watson brand extended takedown pin on the rear and stock on the front. These look nice. And from the first hand accounts I am sold. Going to order a set and then maybe a couple more.
Thank you gents!
This is a customer provided picture of the ETP (take down pin) that's been pushed in from the left side of the receiver, where the 0.030" extra length comes into play:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/Untitled_zps029efeae.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/Untitled_zps029efeae.jpg.html)
The profile of the pin is lower than factory. Had it been the same convex shape of the factory pin, it still would not have interfered with the operation of the ambidextrous selector's right lever.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/bad2_zpsc964b774.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/bad2_zpsc964b774.jpg.html)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_20131003_164333_zpsc94aef8c.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_20131003_164333_zpsc94aef8c.jpg.html)
Robb Jensen
10-27-13, 23:56
I installed a set for a customer on Friday. Really nice pins!
horseman234
10-28-13, 09:21
Based on the reviews, I ordered a couple of sets this morning, and it took EIGHT MINUTES from the time I ordered until I received a tracking number.
That has to be the fastest response that I have had from any company.
We do try to get the order shipped quickly. We're consumers ourselves, we appreciate fast processing and shipping, and getting our hands on our loot as quickly as possible.
As we grow larger and the volume of orders increases as it has been, we are still able to ship on the same day in most cases, the next day if the order comes in too late for a drop off.
We don't compete on price point, but on quality, innovation and service. Along with the level of customer service, warranty and product quality, these are characteristics we will always strive to maintain and improve on if we can.
Robb, I'm glad you like them, please ask Bernie to send over a PO for some, and let me know if you guys need any for personal guns, we'll take care of those ;)
I installed a set for a customer on Friday. Really nice pins!
TheWaker43
10-28-13, 19:28
No kidding. I ordered a set on a Sunday morning and received a shipping notice very soon after. By far some of the best customer service and products in the business.
Based on the reviews, I ordered a couple of sets this morning, and it took EIGHT MINUTES from the time I ordered until I received a tracking number.
That has to be the fastest response that I have had from any company.
Mine arrived today and they are everything people have said about them. Very easy to take down my rifle now. Another satisfied customer.
These seem to be very nice.
Just added two sets to my Amazon shopping cart.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
These will be standard on our rifles and carbines, optional with our lowers.
The EPS is an evolutionary approach to ergonomics on simple pins, if your upper and lower receivers don't require a tool (a bullet is a tool) to break open, you might not really need them. The EPS is easier to push in and pull out, and more tolerant of mixed and mismatched uppers and lowers. While they may not be upgrades everyone needs, we deem they should be standard on every lower (and they will be on Battle Arms Dev. ARs).
They are the second last thing we had to complete for a Battle Arms LPK, the last thing is in development and will go to rapid prototype soon ;)
Duffy, Will B.A.D. be offering the takedown/pivot detent pins and springs separately like they do for the selector detents and springs?
So ya'll are planning to make your own AR?
They are the second last thing we had to complete for a Battle Arms LPK, the last thing is in development and will go to rapid prototype soon ;)
This is what raises my eyebrows. Between that and the receivers, there is a lot to look forward to from B.A.D.
We will indeed :)
SCAR levers will be next after the EMR is done ;)
Duffy, Will B.A.D. be offering the takedown/pivot detent pins and springs separately like they do for the selector detents and springs?
As far as replacing the takedown pin.
1. I used a dental pick, put the pin in half out state, so plunger is not in the detent, pry plunger clear of takedown pin channel.
2. When plunger is clear of channel, I spun the takedown pin.
3. I installed the pivot pin I just exchanged from the front as a "slave" pin from the other side (left side) to hold back the plunger.
Note; I made sure to hold the takedown pin and pivot pin tightly together as they passed the plunger, and I made sure the pivot pin's channel wouldn't line up with the plunger.
4. With the pivot pin holding the plunger I put the new takedown pin in the hole and pushed them back through. Making sure the channel lined up with the plunger.
Lots of details and directions for 60 seconds of effort. No scratches, no cussing, no need to re-stake my Colt castle nut.
The dental pick was what made it easy, as well as making sure the takedown pin wasn't fully out so the pin would be seated in the detent. In the channel it is easy to get under, then just spin it and the takedown pin holds it for you. I also assume most of us do the front pivot pin first, so you have the old one sitting there, perfect for use as a slave pin.
I may have to try again since I ended up scratching mine and shedding a tear.
Roger,
I have a 17s to test for you;)
Which levers would you like to see on the SCAR? Standard, short, thin, hybrid, crank, short-crank, and short-hybrid?
horseman234
10-30-13, 18:02
I just received the enhanced pins which took all of ten minutes for me to install, and I work slowly.
TXSlade's dental pick method works perfectly on the takedown pin.
These pins are not something I absolutely needed, but I really like them, and plan to install them on my other guns.
I want to thank TXSlade and the other members of this site for providing great information, and thank BAD for finding something else for me to spend money on.:alcoholic:
I may have to try again since I ended up scratching mine and shedding a tear.
Roger,
I have a 17s to test for you;)
Roger,
I hope my directions are clear, it's really kind of hard to write out. But just take your time. I think the metal dental pick made it easy, and prying the plunger out when the pin wasn't fully extended with the plunger in the detent in the channel is key. Once it is clear, just turn the pin slightly to hold the plunger.
By the way, I used a block to hold the receiver. The kind that goes up in the mag well. So, when I used the front pin as a slave to hold the plunger back, one hand held it while the other held the takedown pin. I just hold them tightly together when the plunger reaches the spot the pins meet. Without something to hold the receiver, I bet this would be a bit harder.
Best of luck, and I bet $1 you will be on here afterwards amazed how easy it was. I know I was, I rarely post because everything is pretty much been said. But when I saw how easy this method worked, I had to share, plenty have shared with me here.
I tried this method and it worked fine to remove the old take down pin. The only thing is, if you want to use the spring and detent that comes with the pins you have to loosen the castle nut. The detent won't come out as it's a bit longer than .250. I thought maybe I could get the original one out, but no way was I going to be able to put the new one in. I loosened the nut, did the deed, then re-tightened it. the stakes ended up in the same place as before.
We should ask Nate to do a video on take down pin replacement without removing the castle nut :D
The included springs and detents don't need to be used, they're provided because they are tested to work with the ETP (some springs are too long or too short, some detents can make pulling out and pushing in the pins very difficult), and folks at times launch the pivot pin detents into thin air during its removal, it's good to have spares.
We have observed that the same spring would stick out of the pivot pin hole on some receivers, while they would disappear into the pivot pin hole on others. The depth of the pivot pin spring / detent hole varies.
Duffy....I'd really love to see you potentially offer the unique "SR15 IWS / SR-25 MWS type rear detent take down spring.
You know the one even professionals occasionally send to hell while crushing it in between the grip and lower receiver upon tightening.
It's just one of the many unique features I like about the IWS lowers.....access to the rear takedown spring, and by extension the rear takedown pin complete assembly via a simple pistol grip uninstall vs. un staking a castle nut, or do the "dental pick" method some have suggested. That said, the unique take down detent spring is tricky if one doesn't take their time.
In closing, I've killed two SR 15 take down pin screws over the last 3yrs or so, and the several I have now are at min. slightly bent from NIB specs.
Hell you made the ST slower by 5degrees for all the vast Wilson drop in trigger unit end users....surely you can accommodate the legion of KAC end users :p
For those who have already weighed in w/ your first hand reports, and feedback on these units....much appreciated:)
I find that product review threads are really worthless by in large unless it becomes populated by the greater community vs. one end user. The BAD-ASS thread has at least 1000 different members feedback now in it. To my knowledge not a single one of those 1000+ had a negative report. If Duffy/BAD get half the love their selectors enjoy, these will be a tremendous seller. Nuff rambling.
Alex, the ETP still works with receivers that have changed the location of their take down pin spring / detent hole (i.e. behind the selector spring / detent hole, like AR10), the flat cut at 1 o'clock will be rotated to 10 o'clock, so the flat isn't as usable, there's still knurling on the rest of the circumference.
We'll talk about it internally. We need to do this for AR10 anyway, we can make a version for KAC, Spikes, and Seekins AR15 :)
Oh yeah, your taking it much deeper than I even thought about....but damn now that you mention it, my flat cut is totally unusable due to the subtle geometry change with unique IWS type lowers :p
Leave it to you to be overly honest about your kit in terms of calling out minor imperfections, or make public knowledge every single mini detail that perhaps isn't perfect on your products. Nobody else does that for sure in the ego driven firearm/accs. retail market.
What I want to see eventually is just the wimpy "unique" rear take down pin detent springs that seem taller, and skinner over the OEM/factory designed springs that go w/ the IWS type lowers.
Seems silly to make a very subtle changed EPS set for these unique lowers like mine considering it requires most likely another product line run in the mfg'ing process besides the current one used now.
I can see a EPS set for .308 budget rifles perhaps, but I wouldn't change the current pins in the MWS/SR25 lineup given I feel they are already an enhanced type pin, and w/ their bullet dimples achieve their designed goal perfectly.
The money will always be in the .223/5.56 AR world imho, and innovation within the .308 world is almost nowadays always directly related to the innovation in it's littler brother's market segment....the true AR 15 pattern design.
We'll be making AR10 spec EPS anyway, it's not a big thing to make a version of the ETP for receivers like KAC, Seekins and Spikes.
We'll bring that to market soon.
Happy Halloween :D
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/992650_10200883899876111_1379407348_n_zps7bce8783.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/992650_10200883899876111_1379407348_n_zps7bce8783.jpg.html)
Which levers would you like to see on the SCAR? Standard, short, thin, hybrid, crank, short-crank, and short-hybrid?
Whell... if you are taking requests.... :-) How about a version with a longer pivot pin for use on the AX556?
-john
Roger,
I hope my directions are clear, it's really kind of hard to write out. But just take your time. I think the metal dental pick made it easy, and prying the plunger out when the pin wasn't fully extended with the plunger in the detent in the channel is key. Once it is clear, just turn the pin slightly to hold the plunger.
By the way, I used a block to hold the receiver. The kind that goes up in the mag well. So, when I used the front pin as a slave to hold the plunger back, one hand held it while the other held the takedown pin. I just hold them tightly together when the plunger reaches the spot the pins meet. Without something to hold the receiver, I bet this would be a bit harder.
Best of luck, and I bet $1 you will be on here afterwards amazed how easy it was. I know I was, I rarely post because everything is pretty much been said. But when I saw how easy this method worked, I had to share, plenty have shared with me here.
Well, that took me about 60 seconds! I owe you a beer:D I ordered another set for my 2nd rifle.
AX556 pins will be done, just waiting for Josh to send me the AX556 specific dimensions :)
AX556 pins will be done, just waiting for Josh to send me the AX556 specific dimensions :)
Yea! You guys are my heroes!
-john
Are we talking holiday season already? The pins will make awesome Christmas gifts :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg.html)
OEM versions, some with manufacturer specific dimensions should be coming out by then. AXTS is but one of them ;)
ZINCOGNITO
11-01-13, 15:48
Are we talking holiday season already? The pins will make awesome Christmas gifts :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg.html)
OEM versions, some with manufacturer specific dimensions should be coming out by then. AXTS is but one of them ;)
Funny you mentioned AXTS. I just got a call letting me know my lower is on the way!
The EPS will work with the AX556 receivers. The ETP (take down pin) needs no modification and works as is, the EPP (pivot pin) tip will be recessed a bit inside the left of the receiver, but it's still usable, as I understand, some AX556 users use milspec pivot pins that recesses even more (ours are 0.030" longer) :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/1410765_660663493967631_1955543012_o_zps1e946de2.jpg.html)
Looks like my rifle exploded!
The EPS will work with the AX556 receivers. The ETP (take down pin) needs no modification and works as is, the EPP (pivot pin) tip will be recessed a bit inside the left of the receiver, but it's still usable, as I understand, some AX556 users use milspec pivot pins that recesses even more (ours are 0.030" longer) :)
Yah, I'm sure it will work, but nothing really wrong with the AXTS supplied pin, so I'll hang on till the optimized ones come out. Lucky for me I just finished building my lower so I can just hold off staking till the pins are out.
BAD selector, Raptor handle, AX556, oh my!
-john
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/10618146113_5b1d220a1f_b.jpg
Awesome pic, thank you! :)
Battle Arms AR15 receiver and EPP prototypes seen together for the first time :cool:
The EPP is starting to rust a little, it's not been heat treated, deburred and parkerized, but it does bring out the details well, something the parkerized pins can't do.
The stainless steel version will look something like it, except with softer edges (from deburring). AR10 spec pins are in the works as well :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/prototypes_zps91be8d3a.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/prototypes_zps91be8d3a.png.html)
Nice!
How about a prototype pic of your mag release button?
KingsideRook
11-05-13, 18:50
Nice!
How about a prototype pic of your mag release button?
Seconded! I'm more excited about these than I can describe. I hate the stock mag release, and all of the current market replacements.
We will show it once our legal stuff is done. There's already a company copying features from the EPS (patent pending), I wouldn't put it past these guys to do the same with the EMR too and call it their own :rolleyes:
ZINCOGNITO
11-05-13, 20:51
We will show it once our legal stuff is done. There's already a company copying features from the EPS (patent pending), I wouldn't put it past these guys to do the same with the EMR too and call it their own :rolleyes:
Shut up and take my money! Can't wait to see a BAD AR some day soon.
EMR eh? Cant wait to see it (and the lowers). Keep up the good work guys.
The mag release button, like the EPS, will be evolutionary. Its size and the way the mag catch is installed, dictates design limitations since we want it to stay even or below the mag release fence.
I wouldn't want to talk a lot of hype, because in our eyes, there isn't anything that's "wow" about it. It'll do its job well for sure, just like our selectors and pins do without calling attention to themselves, the "quiet professional" in AR hardware I reckon.
Like the EPS, it's a step (the last piece) in our goal to create a Battle Arms LPK. We won't make the triggers or bolt catch, we are happy with what we like from Geissele, ALG and Seekins Precision :)
As we've definitely seen on here lately through various "latest/greatest/SOF tested" widget-rifle threads.....products reviewed on M4C must stand alone based solely on their enhancement/improvement merits that are specifically germane for true hard use/work/HD/ or otherwise serious purpose rifles. I find it refreshing for companies to wait, and not hype new products until they are either ready, or essentially ready for mass release.
I would love to see some super secret pics of the new EMR...hint hint:p
Brownell's now has the EPS too :)
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/takedown-parts/pins/ar15-m16-enhanced-takedown-pins-prod59650.aspx
Knyghtmare
11-06-13, 23:00
There's already a company copying features from the EPS (patent pending)
That is sad, profiting off the hard work of others. I guess when you produce amazing products it is bound to happen.
PSA as well
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/battle-arms-development-enhanced-pins-set.html
PalmettoStateArmory
11-07-13, 07:58
PSA as well
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/battle-arms-development-enhanced-pins-set.html
I've got a few sets on my guns now..they are a nice touch. BAD is going to make me go broke again retrofitting my other guns. :p
Aw, you know that we'll take care of you guys :) If the good folks at PSA want anything for their personal guns, please let me know and I'll take care of it :D
Could these Cerakoted at B.A.D. and shipped to the consumer?
The tolerances are very tight on the pins. If you coat them, the diameter of the pins will increase, and this may cause a problem. This is the reason we made the pins slightly thinner (0.005) to ensure compatibility across the board. Given the pins are slightly thinner, they may take on coating and still not affect functionality for some receivers.
We're still looking into other coloring options that will not alter the pins' dimensions.
Duffy....Sounds great! Thanks for replying so quick! I can't wait for this BAD LPK and Lower coming soon!
Thanks a million Duffy for the new EPS sets. Like a dumbass I already lost the magnet you sent me w/ the t/e model. Luckily I was able to steal a replacement from a refrigerator magnet...no way in hell I'm ever going back to the non "EZ-Guide" way of doing business :cool:
One little note that I've found w/ these new sets is that they have a significantly richer finish than the t/e model. I thought the first set looked perfect until these arrived. They're almost to pretty to stick on a pair of guns......almost.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/8972903c-a876-4686-9c72-77d18a1fd968_zps4a10451a.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/8972903c-a876-4686-9c72-77d18a1fd968_zps4a10451a.jpg.html)
Thank you Alex, the finish is the same but in different batches. The T&E units were done with selector components, the rest was done in another batch a few weeks later. We looked into other finishes, but decided on parkerized finish for the standard model. Other finishes may make it to production, but I'd be just as happy staying with what we have :)
Thank you Shane for the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKG0jg3qmi4
I told Roger I would give him an update when the weather changes as to my experience with the ETP and EPP. I was fortunate enough to be one of the beta testers and from the get go I thought these tiny pieces of equip were great, but that review is in the early pages of this thread so I will not harp on that. Today after work I had a few hours to kill so I packed up and went to the range. After a solid session and it starting to get dark I figured it would be a good time to give the ETP and EPP another look. Where I live it was in the mid 30's with wind chills in the 20's today. With my fingers freezing numb and stiff I decided to break down the 2 AR's I had with me, one was a DDV1 without the enhanced pins installed and the other a BCM build with the BAD enhanced pins installed. First I started the break down with my gloves on. The DD gave a bit of trouble, those that shoot in the cold know that this is usual for the pins to stiffen up and at times seem like they are not going to move. Another thing I could not get a good grip with my gloves on the standard pins that are on the DD, it is not a huge deal but something that can add time on to a situation where very second matters. Using a round works but again this is a time where the cold only adds time and frustration, sometimes a scratched lower or a dinged hand. After messing with the standard pins a few times I took the gloves off and used my bare hands. In the cold my hands get slippery and it is hard to get a positive grip on the pivot pin and take down pin heads. Again not a huge issue but still a pain in the ass.
I then moved to the BCM with the enhanced pins installed. First with the gloves, easy, those groves in the pin heads really make a solid difference, even the small ones in the enhanced takedown pin. The pins did not reenact the small seizing effect that the standard pins yielded, I am sure it was due to the better grip on the pins themselves. Without gloves it was just as easy. Positive locking both while removal and install. The round indent in each pin is also great, they just work. While I had both rifles apart in front of me I decided to de-install the EPP and reinstall it, something many have done in the chilly cold but all who have done it know it can be a pain in the ass in any climate and it is anything but fun. The magnet and detent index mark made this a breeze and I seriously had cracked a small smile at how much easier it is.
The last test was letting a friend I brought along try to give both rifles a quick upper/lower breakdown. He is absolutely inexperienced when it comes to anything related to firearms, of course I safety checked both rifles and with some instruction I let him start. He started with the BCM with the enhanced pins installed and the break down went off effortlessly. When he started to break down the DD he looked stumped and asked if something was different about the way the pins come out or how it is taken apart, after assuring him they break down the same he swore the rifle with the standard pins had something wrong with it, of course it did not.
Final thoughts, while I know most of this feedback is repeated information and many individuals break down their rifles every day in temperatures below 0 with out an issue, I am just saying that we all know in cold weather even common things can become a bit tedious, our hands are not as fluent and comfortable, gloves may be worn etc and it makes small things harder to do. The ETP and EPP is a nice addition specially with experiences, climates like today. It becomes more obvious to me as to why BAD decided to integrate some of the features that they decided to incorporate with the ETP and EPP. Lots of though went into these and I will say it again they will be replacing all previous builds and they will be in all future builds.
Thank you for the thorough feedback and report! :)
A reminder as the holidays season approaches, if you guys purchase directly from us and this is meant to be a gift, please put a note to that effect in shipping instructions. If not, please be sure to mention m4c ;)
I will tell the wife ;) maybe she can get on those lowers. Anytime Roger you know by now I am not good at short stories.
Haha, I will try not to spoil the surprise next time ;)
Freshly installed BAD-EPS and BAD-ASS-ST.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/bad1_zpsf37bd0f2.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/bad2_zps9b17f4b7.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/bad3_zpsf7e096c9.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/bad4_zpsd1f1fd9a.jpg
Thank you :)
For those with staked castle nut for their carbine receiver extension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmK8OlTNPGw&feature=youtu.be
Thank you Nate :D
SilverBullet432
11-19-13, 23:44
Thank you :)
For those with staked castle nut for their carbine receiver extension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmK8OlTNPGw&feature=youtu.be
Thank you Nate :D
saw that vid a while ago. i like that guy's vids. He sure does love your products!!
I installed these pins, detents and springs on my latest build and they work as advertised. Very easy to take down, much easier than with normal pins. Nice job.
Nate is a good friend of mine and Battle Arms', but he is impartial as he must be to maintain his credibility as a reviewer. If he likes some of our products, it could be we haven't made any lemons yet ;)
Folks here were talking about removing / installing the take down pin without having to undo the castle nut staking. I figured it would be much easier to show this in a video, so I asked Nate to produce a short video on this trick, as it is relevant to the original topic :)
Thank you! The benefits will reveal themselves more when it's cold and wet, and your gloved fingers are not as nimble as they normally are in nice weather ;)
I installed these pins, detents and springs on my latest build and they work as advertised. Very easy to take down, much easier than with normal pins. Nice job.
Thank you! The benefits will reveal themselves more when it's cold and wet, and your gloved fingers are not as nimble as they normally are in nice weather ;)
I don't know if I'm looking forward to that experience or not. ;)
SilverBullet432
11-20-13, 13:47
Im looking forward to buying some BAD products here soon :).
The EMR prototypes are going out today to the m4c testers group. These are not functional units in that they are rapid prototypes made with polymer, and can't be installed on a receiver. The aspects we're testing don't require the EMR to be installed. At this stage, we're testing to confirm changes in ergonomics will work as designed. Internal testing has validated them.
We're not timing the EMR to the SHOT show. But when it's ready for release, it'll be offered as a stand alone unit, as well as being a standard component in our LPK :)
I know it isn't a huge incentive, but I have my CC ready as soon as the AX556 version is available!
:-)
-john
The AX556 version is on hold, but there always exists a chance we may go it ourselves :)
Might as well post a pic of the EPS :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/1511074_10151934464544219_10089723_n_zps24e1cf0d.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/1511074_10151934464544219_10089723_n_zps24e1cf0d.jpg.html)
The EMR prototypes are going out today to the m4c testers group. These are not functional units in that they are rapid prototypes made with polymer, and can't be installed on a receiver. The aspects we're testing don't require the EMR to be installed. At this stage, we're testing to confirm changes in ergonomics will work as designed. Internal testing has validated them.
We're not timing the EMR to the SHOT show. But when it's ready for release, it'll be offered as a stand alone unit, as well as being a standard component in our LPK :)
SWEET!!!!!
I'm pretty damn excited to see what evolves.
BTW, Duffy is that one of those fancy titanium FAs?
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Like the EPS, there are design constraints that dictate the shape of the component. One of the constraints is we want the button to be shielded by the mag release button fence, not stick out of it.
Also like the EPS, while the changes may be minor in appearance, they're made for humans.
The AX556 version is on hold, but there always exists a chance we may go it ourselves :)
:-(
-john
Thanks Devin for the review! :)
http://www.gunsandtactics.com/evolution-of-the-ar-15-lower
Received the new BAD-EPS set in titanium yesterday, and figured I would update this thread with a few pics and info on them.
These are made from Titanium versus the original models being made from steel. The Ti models weigh about 45% of the steel version.
Couple of quick observations....
1.) I was quite surprised by the difference in weights b/t the two models. So much so that I had three other people around me take the comparison as well....all came to the same conclusion which was that the Ti pins feel significantly lighter to the naked touch. Personally the weight kinda gets lost once installed on a 7-8lb rifle....but for those LW junkies, these are super LW!
2.) The machine work/quality on these Ti pins is just flawless...unlike any other small part I've seen including previous ones from BAD Inc. Just amazing quality.
3.) The magnet trick doesn't work with the new Ti model I've found, however install was still a breeze.
4.) My only suggestion is that I hope in the future they come in black.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/126565e0-5ed0-4c6e-bc0e-3d510c06bcf4_zps7b0065fa.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/126565e0-5ed0-4c6e-bc0e-3d510c06bcf4_zps7b0065fa.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/9402c8e6-5a12-458e-8323-f6c5cdca5275_zpsaf396208.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/9402c8e6-5a12-458e-8323-f6c5cdca5275_zpsaf396208.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/trident1982035/b2a98361-34f1-4527-96a9-de881e291d58_zps91050f8d.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/trident1982035/b2a98361-34f1-4527-96a9-de881e291d58_zps91050f8d.jpg.html)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/trident1982035/5538b5d8-dcb3-45e8-974f-c2baaeea1a0e_zps9640c4d2.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/trident1982035/5538b5d8-dcb3-45e8-974f-c2baaeea1a0e_zps9640c4d2.jpg.html)
Nice. I'm with you on hoping they come out with black ones. Did they say anything about the different "head" design? Is there any functional importance to the primer looking center?
Beautiful addition Trident82.
And that is the KAC trigger guard correct? Oh how I wish I had one of those.
Nice. I'm with you on hoping they come out with black ones. Did they say anything about the different "head" design? Is there any functional importance to the primer looking center?
Duffy said it was done to differentiate the more expensive Ti pins from the steel ones.
Beautiful addition Trident82.
And that is the KAC trigger guard correct? Oh how I wish I had one of those.
Thanks brother. The trigger guard is a Phase5 winter trigger guard....http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3856
Mine's a lot older, and doesn't appear as nice as the newer ones. It reminds me of the old school KAC teardrop trigger guard.
Thanks brother. The trigger guard is a Phase5 winter trigger guard....http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3856
Mine's a lot older, and doesn't appear as nice as the newer ones. It reminds me of the old school KAC teardrop trigger guard.
Phase 5 crossed my mind But thought it might have been the KAC one. Thanks for the link though. I may pick one of those up.
They will come in black, the coated version has always been a part of the Ti EPS planning.
The single groove on the large pin head is to differentiate the Ti EPS from its steel brethren. When both versions are black (the uncoated Ti version will be the first to come to market and will stay in the product line), other than the weight difference they're almost identical and difficult to correctly identify quickly.
The unintended consequence is that it results in what Mercedes Benz does with its AMG Mercedes, higher performance, more expensive and sport slightly different looks :)
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