View Full Version : S&W 686 light strikes
I have a S&W 686 stainless that's having problems with light strikes. I've installed a Brownells reduced power mainspring and a reduced power trigger rebound spring. It functions fine with .38 Spl ammo, but when I use .357 mag rounds, it always lights off the first round, then light strikes the second. If I keep going it will light off the third. I've tried a Cylinder and Slide extended firing pin, and most recently an Apex Tactical extended firing pin with the same results. I know I can go back to the factory weight main spring and fix the issue; however, I like the reduced and smoother trigger pull of the lighter main spring. This revolver is strictly for ICORE and other competition, not a carry or home defense gun at all. I just need it to be reliable. Has anyone else experienced this problem with .357 ammo? Just trying to see if there is a solution I haven't found yet.
I also know that Federal primers are easier to set off, but I don't handload and Federal ammo is not always available.
- What .357 magnum rounds are you using? probably a harder primer cup then the .38 spl you are using
Blazer and Winchester .357 ammo.
I'm just wondering if anyone has any solutions to make the gun reliable with the reduced power main spring.
If not I'll just put the main power spring back in and be done with it.
Coal Dragger
10-17-13, 01:22
If you want to run a really light main spring and you don't reload, then just give up on your idea or try a slightly heavier mainspring that is still not as heavy as stock. You could also find a good revolver smith to tune the action properly for you with the understanding that it has to provide reliable ignition.
It you do elect to start reloading Federal primers are pretty easy to ignite, and so are Winchesters if memory serves. CCI's are pretty hard.
Any suggestions on a good quality main spring that is smoother than the stock S&W spring?
If you want to run a really light main spring and you don't reload, then just give up on your idea or try a slightly heavier mainspring that is still not as heavy as stock. You could also find a good revolver smith to tune the action properly for you with the understanding that it has to provide reliable ignition.
It you do elect to start reloading Federal primers are pretty easy to ignite, and so are Winchesters if memory serves. CCI's are pretty hard.
THIS. Always remember to try the mainspring in DA mode, it has less power than SA. You must test at least 100 rounds for defensive use to be sure of reliable ignition when the revolver is a bit dirty.
Put original springs in tighten strain screw all the way . Shoot a few thousand rounds to get used to trigger. This is the answer- any time you try to lighten a smth pull with drop in lighter springs you are looking and almost certainly finding light strike issues.
As mentioned stock springs and tight strain screw.
Any ICORE, IDPA, USPSA revolver shooter worth their salt will ONLY use Federal primers on a tuned gun. Anything else is literally hit or miss. You really need to reload to get the most out of your revolver competition rig.
Depending on how many rounds you shoot and how hot you get the gun, one thing to watch out for is firing pin springs dying. What happens is the miniscule little spring fatigues and compresses, leaving the firing pin protruding from the frame slightly on the trigger return. When you attempt to pull through for the next shot, the rim of the next cartridge swipes the pin head and the pin gets bent. Then you really get ignition problems. It's easy to change out the spring and I did mine about every 800 rounds on my 686.
Factory S&W pin lengths can vary and some are not long enough to get reliable ignition. The C&S pins have been hit or miss for me and I've had just as much luck with factory pins on the longer side. One thing that significantly improves ignition is to reprofile the pin tip. You can chuck it up in a Dremel and shape it with an emory board, diamond file, etc., then polish it up with some 2000 grit sandpaper. The sharper nose profile will penetrate the primer cup deeper and the polished surface reduces pin to cup friction, further aiding in a solid strike. Don't overdo it on the reprofile or you'll get pierced primers.
Probably the best resource for this type of info is the revolver section on Enos Forums. You'll get tons of info there, from this to DIY Comp III and Jet Loader mods that improve speed and reliability.
Hope this helps!
Firing pin spring? ...all my S&W revolvers have hammer mounted firing pins :D
Firing pin spring? ...all my S&W revolvers have hammer mounted firing pins :D
And those old hammer mounted forged internals guns were more reliable (don't get me started on S&W cutting costs by removing the index pins on the ejector star). However, you can't get a 100% reliable 5# DA trigger pull on the old actions like the newer MIM guns.
I ran a forged internals 19-4 for a whole year and then a MIM 686 the year after. There were features on each that I preferred and for the most part, the 686 was more maintenance intensive. Overall it was more liveable though.
If only we could get the best of both worlds in one gun. :(
glocktogo, I really like shooting my revolvers in DA, but I never run one in IPSC (I prefer pistols for this) so they are not really abused. My comment was more like tongue-in-cheek since I detest the locks and the looks of the newer smiths, but really have not much experience with the newer MIM parts and frame mounted FP.
Does the larger, heavier cylinder of the L frames beat the cylinder stop and hand more with extended, fast, DA shooting?
What issues do the MIM parts have? How hard are they beneath the surface?
BTW, I like all my revolvers to ignite reliably all ammo, so their triggers are not light. Despite this, I manage to shoot just fine in fast DA (not world class, of course). I also like a firm trigger return spring.
glocktogo, I really like shooting my revolvers in DA, but I never run one in IPSC (I prefer pistols for this) so they are not really abused. My comment was more like tongue-in-cheek since I detest the locks and the looks of the newer smiths, but really have not much experience with the newer MIM parts and frame mounted FP.
Does the larger, heavier cylinder of the L frames beat the cylinder stop and hand more with extended, fast, DA shooting?
What issues do the MIM parts have? How hard are they beneath the surface?
BTW, I like all my revolvers to ignite reliably all ammo, so their triggers are not light. Despite this, I manage to shoot just fine in fast DA (not world class, of course). I also like a firm trigger return spring.
The trigger on my 686 was a Randy Lee Level IV ICORE action job. Obviously MIM quality comes into play, but the Apex job does some radical reductions in parts weight. Nothing ever broke, so I'd say the S&W MIM parts are "hard enough". Return was positive and I never had a single issue with short stroking. I've recorded .16-.18 splits with it at 5-7 yards. I also never had an issue with "trigger freeze" on it, but I did with a JM625 I had. Another issue is the plunger equipped yoke screw. There's a fix for pretty much every issue on the MIM guns. The cylinder notch peening really wasn't much of an issue with either gun. I just kept an eye on it and dressed them down occasionally to prevent issues.
Thanks for the help. For now I'm just going to put it back to stock and deal with it from there. I just thought it was odd that is only happened with .357 mag loads. Are the primers in .38 Spl (including +P) that much easier to set off? Also wondering why it would set off the first round, then light hit the second, then set off the third, consistenly. How does/ would recoil affect the hammer blow of the next round?
This brings back old memories. I remember hearing the old timers talk about this issue in the 1970's.
The primers in magnum loads may have a harder cup than regular pressure loads to prevent the primers from backing out or rupturing under the increased pressure. You can't have it both ways, you have to choose ammunition that works well in your revolver or put the OEM springs back in.
If it is strictly a target/competition handgun, I would choose a load that works reliably in it and store it where I would not grab it in an emergency. If you compete long enough, you will start reloading at some point. I have reloaded .38 Special and .357 Magnum with Winchester Small Primers for years without any issues.
As far as consistently igniting the first and third rounds, but not the second round that is puzzling if there are no issues with the OEM springs. There is some cylinder end shake engineered into the design of a revolver for reliability. Unless the malfunction occurs on only one chamber, cylinder end shake might account for what you are experiencing.
I have a S&W 586 that I bought in 1985 and it has had tens of thousands of rounds fired through it. I ran a Wolff mainspring in it for years, then replaced it with the OEM mainspring when the revolver got really worn in.
The more you shoot your 686, the more you will like it.
I ran a Wolff mainspring in it for years, then replaced it with the OEM mainspring when the revolver got really worn in.
I do the same thing put lighter springs in until the revolver smooths out then I return to the stock springs.
anachronism
10-19-13, 15:33
Wolff also offers an "extra power" mainspring. I use these in any gun that may be used for SD, which is all of them. It's ribbed, and will fire rifle primers if need be.
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=3&mID=58
There are a lot off aspects to this problem and the gun needs to be looked at By a profeshanal.
All we can do on on line is gess at what is going on inside of the revolver.
If you need my help just let me know I spand a lot of my shop time on revolvers.
There are a lot off aspects to this problem and the gun needs to be looked at By a profeshanal.
All we can do on on line is gess at what is going on inside of the revolver.
If you need my help just let me know I spand a lot of my shop time on revolvers.
Of course you think it should go to a shop, that will take much of my meager paycheck.
Just kidding. I've actually considered sending it to you for a trigger job. Just never got around to it. I've been looking at your work for years, and I think your revolver work is incredible. This revolver is simply a "fun" gun for me, and I haven't really invested much time or money into it.
I have a S&W 686 stainless that's having problems with light strikes. I've installed a Brownells reduced power mainspring and a reduced power trigger rebound spring. It functions fine with .38 Spl ammo, but when I use .357 mag rounds, it always lights off the first round, then light strikes the second. If I keep going it will light off the third. I've tried a Cylinder and Slide extended firing pin, and most recently an Apex Tactical extended firing pin with the same results. I know I can go back to the factory weight main spring and fix the issue; however, I like the reduced and smoother trigger pull of the lighter main spring. This revolver is strictly for ICORE and other competition, not a carry or home defense gun at all. I just need it to be reliable. Has anyone else experienced this problem with .357 ammo? Just trying to see if there is a solution I haven't found yet.
I also know that Federal primers are easier to set off, but I don't handload and Federal ammo is not always available.
Stick with the regular Apex firing pin no the competition one:
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html
You want smoother trigger pull?
Put the factory spring back in, take out all the guts out of your revolver and use black sharpie and make it all tactical shiny black.
Put the parts back in, dry fire a LOT. When you think you dry fired a lot dry fire some more. Ok now you are done take a break, dry fire some more afterwards.
When done dry firing a lot, take the sideplate off take out the parts, see where the black sharpie worn off, polish the moving parts.
Polish the sides of the hammer if it rubs, polish the sides of the trigger, do a good job of polishing the return bar and other small parts.
Clean up and polish the inside of the revolver where the parts rub up against the sides. The key word here is smooth and polish and not remove metal parts.
Whatever you do DO NOT touch the trigger/sear surface areas.
You can also get shims for trigger and hammer so it is straight and even in the frame and has no canting (google power custom shims).
Oh yeah, put the factory spring back in. You will probably have to repeat this process several times for a smooth trigger.
You want to mess around with the weight?
Put the factory spring back in. Back off the tension screw doesnt set off the ammo? Give it a turn, once the ammo sets off reliably give it another half a turn and use blue thread locker.
Factory springs are flat and do ok with less screw tension.
For some reason those aftermarket springs with the rib in them do not like the reduced tension from the screw. But that is just my opinion and ASSumption.
Most of all take your time go slow and check and repeat.
Of course you think it should go to a shop, that will take much of my meager paycheck.
Just kidding. I've actually considered sending it to you for a trigger job. Just never got around to it. I've been looking at your work for years, and I think your revolver work is incredible. This revolver is simply a "fun" gun for me, and I haven't really invested much time or money into it.
If you need my help just let me know I would be glad to help you.
My two cents, I had a problem with occasional light strikes after installing an aftermarket spring kit with one of my J frames. It turned out the spring in the DA sear was kinked (likely from the factory as I never touched it) and the lighter springs would not always be able to overcome the extra resistance. It happened about once every cylinder.
Finally checked and replaced the spring, and have not had a problem or light strike since.
Try tightening the strain screw just a little.
Dave Berryhill
11-30-13, 11:50
Stick with the regular Apex firing pin no the competition one:
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html....
What is the difference?
What is the difference?
The regular has a round profile, while the competition is more conical
Dave Berryhill
11-30-13, 17:50
The regular has a round profile, while the competition is more conical
Makes sense - thanks!
The combined triggerpull weight of the rebound and main spring is not the only influence on ignition. Friction will make the triggerpull harder and the trigger characteristics unpleasant. A misaligned hammer might loose force by binding on the frame and could maybe need shimming. Burrs inside the rebound slide, rough spots on the rebound slide or poor mating to the frame can increase friction.
Just changing the springs will rarely lead to phantastic trigger characteristics, only a lighter pull.
J. Kuhnhausen has written an excellent guide on how to work on the S&W revolvers and reading it will help to understand the gun much better.
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