View Full Version : Feds are warning LEO agencies notice people with large weapons and ammo collections.
Mauser KAR98K
10-24-13, 12:04
http://publicintelligence.net/weapons-discovery-terrorism/
Though about posting this in the DC illegal ammo possession thread, but it probably warrants its own.
The Feds are now warning LEO to be on the look out for people who have a large weapon and ammunition supply, indicating that they might be up to criminal or terrorist activities, siting the mass murderer from...Norway. This is great, my government is lumping me in with the Sovereign Citizens, even though I really despise them and am afraid of them when i go through certain parts of my state (TN).
Out. Of. Control.
NCPatrolAR
10-24-13, 12:13
Nothing about this has been mentioned to us; but patrol officers should be making note of such things anyways when they encounter them IMO
I like how they put the constitutional disclaimer in there at the end.
I like how they put the constitutional disclaimer in there at the end.It seems that's all the constitution is now'a days, a disclaimer. A cliff note in how it should be, that most either ignore or don't appreciate.
platoonDaddy
10-24-13, 12:33
All this is just wrong, wrong and frigin wrong. For sure Chicago politics!
Just like the message to soldiers at a pre-deployment briefing at Ft Hood advising them not to donate to the tea party or to evangelical Christian groups.
I love my country, but fear my government.
Eurodriver
10-24-13, 12:40
Why should I be worried about this?
As NC said, local LEOs are already paying attention to lawful gun owners as it is - or at least they're supposed to. Just ask Mark W. in DC.
LOL, that's less than I had in Junior High.
http://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/weapons-discovery.jpg
****ing noobs.
NoveskeFan
10-24-13, 12:58
How would we notice someone's stockpile or collection in the first place? Yeah, a pissed off spouse can make something up, but depending on circumstances, I'd be more inclined to start asking where you shoot at. Common sense and the persons character goes a long way. I have no doubt that some cops would report someone to their local FBI office for nothing more that seeing a case of ammo on the kitchen table, but I have coworkers that have more guns & ammo than me...which I'm working on fixing:D. Unfortunately, there are LEO's that feel they are better than non-LEO's. I guess the bottom line is to not give "the man" a peek into your life.
Mauser KAR98K
10-24-13, 12:59
Nothing about this has been mentioned to us; but patrol officers should be making note of such things anyways when they encounter them IMO
Why should I be worried about this?
As NC said, local LEOs are already paying attention to lawful gun owners as it is - or at least they're supposed to. Just ask Mark W. in DC.
Paying attention to them how?
This memo is out to make folks like me, or Steyr to be possible terrorist when we just love firearms. Like me who loves guitars. With the amount I have, you think I'd have a gold record by now.
With prices of ammo fluctuating, Obama in the White House, and people looking to score a buck on the next gun ban freenzy, I bet there are a TON of people stockpiling now more than ever just to be able to shoot during panic times.
Guess I missed this memo....oh wait, we don't give a shit what homeland insecurity or the fbi has to say....
I would venture to say unless you're a whack-nut-job that requires an emergency detention (i.e. suicide threat/homicidal threat) every other week (or make public threats towards police, which is becoming more and more popular), police officers don't care how many guns anyone has......
The actual document (from the linked article) seems to oversimplify the point.
Possession of large amounts of weapons, ammunition, explosives, accelerants, or explosive precursor chemicals could indicate a pre-operational terrorist attack planning or criminal activity.
Sound ominous, and very vague, leaving a lot of people to think that they're being targeted. The rest of the document adds a bit more context.
Singlestack Wonder
10-24-13, 13:18
Nothing about this has been mentioned to us; but patrol officers should be making note of such things anyways when they encounter them IMO
Why should a police officer take note of my firearms and ammo if they happen to learn about them. As a law abiding citizen, its none of their business.
Why should a police officer take note of my firearms and ammo if they happen to learn about them. As a law abiding citizen, its none of their business.
I think you may be mistaking NC's comment about "making note" with "taking notes".
Why should a police officer take note of my firearms and ammo if they happen to learn about them. As a law abiding citizen, its none of their business.
So when they have to go back to the house for a physical domestic they remember "hey, this a-hole has a lot of guns, i'll keep that in mind". Outrageous I know....
Not to report back to the feds so the SS can come to your home and take your guns.
(p.s. if you're a law abiding citizen, how in the world would Police know you have weapons?????....they wouldn't, and wouldn't care either)
brickboy240
10-24-13, 13:44
This is why it is prudent to keep your firearms activity and collection under your hat.
Don't flaunt it to neighbors or people you really don't know well. Don't discuss the firearms or amount of ammo you have with co-workers, either. Don't put tons of gun decals all over your vehicles.
And yes, don't leave ammo or guns out in the open in your own home, in case a cop comes in. Nothing for the average Joe to glance in and make them think you have tons of guns or ammunition. Your kid's friends should not see gun or ammunition laying around...anything that can be "reported" back to someone else.
If you have neighbors that are cops, think twice before sharing info on how many guns you have, your ammo stash or even the kinds of guns you own.
Be as low key as possible when it comes to firearms....even if you live in the reddest of red states.
Sorry it has to be this way, but unfortunately this is the country we have de-evolved into being.
-brickboy240
Lots of good stuff
-brickboy240
Sage advice, regardless of who your neighbors are.
If you have neighbors that are cops, think twice before sharing info on how many guns you have, your ammo stash or even the kinds of guns you own.
-brickboy240
lol......love it...
brickboy240
10-24-13, 13:56
Call me paranoid but showing off and telling everyone about your collection does not seem like good policy. Many people show off their gun collection like some would a classic Vette. I just don't think that is a good idea....sorry.
Not meant as a dig against cops in general....just a suggestion to be low key. My neighbors that are NOT cops are not getting any info on what I own, either. I have no hatred for police in general.
Do what you want...I am keeping everything on the down low.
-brickboy240
Why should a police officer take note of my firearms and ammo if they happen to learn about them. As a law abiding citizen, its none of their business.
It would largely depend on why we contacted you to begin with, ie: domestic issue, frequent disturbance calls, things of that nature.
Outside of that, I don't care what you own.
NCPatrolAR
10-24-13, 14:42
Why should a police officer take note of my firearms and ammo if they happen to learn about them. As a law abiding citizen, its none of their business.
As has already been stated; its good info to know in case you have to go to/return to a residence for break-in calls/domestics/suicides/etc. Also, its good info to know should there be a house fire.
And no; we (at least I've never heard of it) arent passing the info on to the Feds. Hell; half the time only a handful of people on a given shift would even know.
Which is all fine and dandy but I think what people are griping about here is that this memo appears to be a continued reflection of a systematic mindset within federal LE that is ideologically driven and has been expanding for some time.
Personally as a state/local LEO I would find it insulting that they would be suggesting to me how I should be doing my job.
Most critically thinking capable persons would look at this see it for what it is but sadly others probably wont. It's an incremental shift in attitude that is irking folks.
Nothing about this has been mentioned to us; but patrol officers should be making note of such things anyways when they encounter them IMO
How does that work?
You pull someone over for speeding, you notice some rifles and ammo in back seat, you write down what you seen with name/address of driver and notes it where? In a report? A Database?
This is why it is prudent to keep your firearms activity and collection under your hat.
Don't flaunt it to neighbors or people you really don't know well. Don't discuss the firearms or amount of ammo you have with co-workers, either. Don't put tons of gun decals all over your vehicles.
And yes, don't leave ammo or guns out in the open in your own home, in case a cop comes in. Nothing for the average Joe to glance in and make them think you have tons of guns or ammunition. Your kid's friends should not see gun or ammunition laying around...anything that can be "reported" back to someone else.
If you have neighbors that are cops, think twice before sharing info on how many guns you have, your ammo stash or even the kinds of guns you own.
Be as low key as possible when it comes to firearms....even if you live in the reddest of red states.
Sorry it has to be this way, but unfortunately this is the country we have de-evolved into being.
-brickboy240
Conversely, however, if you DO go into hiding like that, we lose the PR war. At least 50% of our current problem is that too many gun owners, especially EBR owners, are comparatively "in the closet" and thus it's easier for media anti gun propagandizing to have little or no rebuttal with the general population. If we are not ambassadors towards the non gun owning public, what we end up with in TX or PA is NJ or CA--that's EXACTLY how it happened there and more recently CT and MA, by gun owners NOT standing up and saying "Hey, that's ME, YOUR DOCTOR/TEACHER/MECHANIC/ACCOUNTANT/PREACHER you're talking about!" and refusing to be treated like a known pedophile or a black person in 1950's rural Mississippi.
Of all the anti gun attitudes I've run into, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 was pure ignorance from lack of exposure and in-group/out-group phenomenon. That means two things: they don't know people who are like us who own ARs or carry a sidearm daily, and what they think they know about people who do and guns themselves isn't good. They WILL and DO act on that misinformation, and you WILL bear the consequences of what happens. What they know is a myth, and to them we are usually more or less fictional, something someone either made up or appears on TV. It's easy to stereotype, insult, and advocate for laws against someone who basically doesn't exist in your life. In a sense, we're not real, not someone they can shake hands with, have dinner with, drink the same beer with, etc. Now, how might they think and act if they know differently? What if we're not that crazy unabomber or Jack the Ripper, but the nice guy who handed them a shopping cart or whose kid helped their kid with their homework? The difference is quite dramatic.
Again, I restate: if we do not control the conversation, it will be controlled by those who speak up louder than we do. That has already had VERY bad consequences and worse awaiting if we continue to fail.
NCPatrolAR
10-24-13, 15:19
How does that work?
You pull someone over for speeding, you notice some rifles and ammo in back seat, you write down what you seen with name/address of driver and notes it where? In a report? A Database?
Nope. For stuff in a vehicle you wouldnt think twice about it other than when you possibly talked about the stop with other officers and then it'd be a simple conversation.
An address can be flagged in some 911 systems so that when a call goes out at that location and warning is provided to the dispatched officers. Thats been around for the past 12 years at least.
This is why it is prudent to keep your firearms activity and collection under your hat.
Don't flaunt it to neighbors or people you really don't know well. Don't discuss the firearms or amount of ammo you have with co-workers, either. Don't put tons of gun decals all over your vehicles.
And yes, don't leave ammo or guns out in the open in your own home, in case a cop comes in. Nothing for the average Joe to glance in and make them think you have tons of guns or ammunition. Your kid's friends should not see gun or ammunition laying around...anything that can be "reported" back to someone else.
If you have neighbors that are cops, think twice before sharing info on how many guns you have, your ammo stash or even the kinds of guns you own.
Be as low key as possible when it comes to firearms....even if you live in the reddest of red states.
Sorry it has to be this way, but unfortunately this is the country we have de-evolved into being.
-brickboy240
Yeah cause cops are stupid and won't figure out what is in my safes.
:sarcastic:
Furthermore I have entire books shelves on the subject, some pictures on the wall of my family with guns, etc. I'm not gonna try and hide my entire life behind a curtain.
More importantly I'm a LE supplier. It's a safe bet 50% of local law enforcement know all about me either having done prior business with me or some similar previous contact.
If you ask them if they know anyone with a large "cache" of guns and ammo, I'm probably in the top 5 of the first people they think of.
I get what you are saying, but it won't work for everyone. For the guy with a couple ARs and some Glocks, sure...might as well keep it under the radar.
Grand58742
10-24-13, 18:31
Yeah cause cops are stupid and won't figure out what is in my safes.
The fact that it's plural should raise an eyebrow or two lol
How does that work?
You pull someone over for speeding, you notice some rifles and ammo in back seat, you write down what you seen with name/address of driver and notes it where? In a report? A Database?
Our database has some addresses flagged. But they are all crazy people and anti PD people.
As a patrol officers you should always keep a mental log of your area. Suspected/known drug houses, gang affiliated house, vacant houses, repeat DV houses, etc.. Likely if the police in your area known you have a large collection of guns then maybe you should rethink your lifestyle.
There are only two houses I can think of that have "arsenals". The only reason I know this is they both got burglarized and the suspects were caught in the act. One guy had a bunch of high end hunting rifles and the other had a bunch of EBRs and the such. Neither house is flagged but I remember them incase future burglaries in progress happen there.
In my experience Phoenix PD is very pro 2A. But then again police officers are usually locals and guns are pretty common in Az so most of our officers grew up shooting.
I don't think I want to live in fear and hide out like a criminal. I don't think it's wise to let everyone know my business, but I'm not about to hide it like a kid with a Playboy magazine (old school). Hell, I've got a 4' #18 Kyle Bush flag hanging on my fireplace.. How's that for flaunting. LOL.. Cheers.. Ron
Suwannee Tim
10-24-13, 19:05
LOL, that's less than I had in Junior High......
If you don't mind my asking, how did you pay for all this stuff you had as a child? At age 14 I had an '03A3 and a Browning Hi-Power I got with money I earned working for $1.65 an hour and I and my friends thought I was doing pretty well.
Mauser KAR98K
10-24-13, 21:15
I had asked NCPatrolAR what "notes" they were taking, and I'm cool with it being mental in case you need to roll up on said address in the future. Yeah, that's cool.
What the Government is wanting is an entirely different ballgame.
I have to laugh at some people being paranoid that the "man" might know they have guns and ammo. Try being a C3 dealer!! The ATF is ROUTINELY up in my business!
Folks, be much more concerned about what public schools are teaching your children, the IRS and the lack of morals our Country has.
C4
Just as an FYI to folks, the FBI has been going around Guns dealer for YEARS "teaching" us about how to ID a terrorist (domestic and foreign) and to report them.
So this stuff is old news.
C4
Just as an FYI to folks, the FBI has been going around Guns dealer for YEARS "teaching" us about how to ID a terrorist (domestic and foreign) and to report them.
So this stuff is old news.
C4
Remember the militia/PC/RW extremist awareness surge in the early to mid 90's? Same same.
If you don't mind my asking, how did you pay for all this stuff you had as a child? At age 14 I had an '03A3 and a Browning Hi-Power I got with money I earned working for $1.65 an hour and I and my friends thought I was doing pretty well.
When I was about 8 years old my father put all of his office equipment in my brothers and my name and leased it from us. This way he could start a college fund and have it be a deductible business expense. We received very favorable lease rates.
At the same time we started a maintenance company, consisting of my brother and I, and he hired us for what amounted to going to his office once a week and taking the trash to the dumpster in the parking lot. We were paid about what you'd pay a commercial janitorial service to come do your entire office. Again a deductible business expense that served as a college fund.
From the above we got $25 a week each for allowance and weren't allowed to touch the rest. The exception was we were allowed to buy guns because my father knew they'd hold their value.
My first gun was a German Luger I got for my Christmas when I was in the 4th grade, I'd have several more firearm birthday and Christmas presents from my father, sadly this would be illegal today.
In the 6th grade I started my own company "Classic Weapons" (I need to get a scan of my business cards) which basically sold nunchaku. I bought swivel chain assemblies from a wholesale supplier and turned out handles on a wood lathe and then did finally assembly in my garage. I made about $100 a month profit which was enough for gun money in the late 70s, early 80s. Sometimes I'd buy commercial nunchaku from my supplier and spend the weekend selling them at the local flea market which usually amounted to $100 in profit but I could only do that a few times a year.
Eurodriver
10-25-13, 08:46
So when they have to go back to the house for a physical domestic they remember "hey, this a-hole has a lot of guns, i'll keep that in mind". Outrageous I know....
Not to report back to the feds so the SS can come to your home and take your guns.
(p.s. if you're a law abiding citizen, how in the world would Police know you have weapons?????....they wouldn't, and wouldn't care either)
Oh my God, I agree with J-Dub.
This is worse than when I started nodding while reading Pat's posts...
I don't advertise my gun collections - to anybody. I have scumbag family members that would just as soon rob me to sell my suppressed NFA weapons as some gangbanger down the street.
The only people that know I own guns either own guns themselves (and we shoot together), very close friends who know I carry, and some hoodrats that I've drawn down on in the street. Even then, most people know I own a G26 and that's it.
I have no problems with cops keeping a mental note of some asshole with a bunch of shotguns who is constantly ending up on ILEADS.
skijunkie55
10-25-13, 08:58
A wall of sound advice.
-brickboy240
And to echo this post, plastering your facebook wall with "patriots against tyranny" and "from my cold dead hands" along with pictures of your weapons stockpile certainly doesn't help either.
Remember the militia/PC/RW extremist awareness surge in the early to mid 90's? Same same.
I was in the Military (overseas) at that time so don't know anything about that, but believe you.
C4
Our database has some addresses flagged. But they are all crazy people and anti PD people.
As a patrol officers you should always keep a mental log of your area. Suspected/known drug houses, gang affiliated house, vacant houses, repeat DV houses, etc.. Likely if the police in your area known you have a large collection of guns then maybe you should rethink your lifestyle.
There are only two houses I can think of that have "arsenals". The only reason I know this is they both got burglarized and the suspects were caught in the act. One guy had a bunch of high end hunting rifles and the other had a bunch of EBRs and the such. Neither house is flagged but I remember them incase future burglaries in progress happen there.
In my experience Phoenix PD is very pro 2A. But then again police officers are usually locals and guns are pretty common in Az so most of our officers grew up shooting.
THAT is my biggest reason to keep my "hobby" on the down-low at this point in time.
Most of my shooting/training buddies are PD. Most of them own more than I do and are more "extremist" than I.
Not to worried they are going to come after me. My thinking is more in line with Grants.
Dear Federal Government:
You can't consider the entire state of Wyoming a potential terrorist threat, despite how much you may want to.
This is so stupid.
Notice the "illegal possession of large quantities of ammunition", since when was there a quantity limit on ammo that pushed it into the "illegal to own" realm?
Sometimes I wonder if posting on gun forums flags us. Having filled out about 500 yellow forms in 40 plus years has no doubt brought some attention to me so I shouldn't worry.
Sometimes I wonder if posting on gun forums flags us. Having filled out about 500 yellow forms in 40 plus years has no doubt brought some attention to me so I shouldn't worry.
You "wonder"? Come on, you know it flags us. This is a forum that specializes in "assault rifles" and allows civilians to participate.
Removed Gestapo remarks, due to the fact they are getting old. -SeriousStudent
The FBI should flag DHS then DHS flag the FBI :ph34r:
MountainRaven
10-26-13, 01:23
Sometimes I wonder if posting on gun forums flags us. Having filled out about 500 yellow forms in 40 plus years has no doubt brought some attention to me so I shouldn't worry.
Starting this week, the FBI NICS operations center (or whatever they're calling it now) has started telling FFL holders when they call in on a background check that the call is being recorded and may be reviewed for "any authorized purpose" (or words to that effect). Prior to that, it had been may be recorded for quality purposes.
Not, in light of what we know about the NSA, PRISM, &c., that it likely makes much of a difference. But it would seem that they are at least dropping the pretension that they aren't secretly taking note of who is buying what and how often.
I've been wondering about this as well. I purchase a sizable amount of ammo for classes, and have quite a few guns. Does taking a lot of training classes flag a person as being extremist? If so, what a shame. I take classes to become a more effective and SAFER shooter. A more responsible shooter who is less likely to endanger an innocent if I were forced to defend myself or my loved ones. Plus, the classes are challenging, fun, and get me out of the normal circle of people in my line of work. It's a sad time for this country that doing such things is potentially being equated with extremism.
Folks, be much more concerned about what public schools are teaching your children, the IRS and the lack of morals our Country has.
C4 This scares me just as much as policed state.
This scares me just as much as policed state.
Speaking of which, a couple years ago at a family BBQ, me and my stepbrothers were talking about hunting and shooting when my nephew blurts out, guns are illegal. He learned that school:mad:
Eurodriver
10-26-13, 07:07
Speaking of which, a couple years ago at a family BBQ, me and my stepbrothers were talking about hunting and shooting when my nephew blurts out, guns are illegal. He learned that school:mad:
Your nephew blurted that out?
We had grown ass adults standing around asking each other why George Zimmerman didn't get arrested. "I thought if you got caught carrying a gun you'd go to jail immediately. I guess they let it slide because he shot a black kid..." :rolleyes:
Your nephew blurted that out?
We had grown ass adults standing around asking each other why George Zimmerman didn't get arrested. "I thought if you got caught carrying a gun you'd go to jail immediately. I guess they let it slide because he shot a black kid..." :rolleyes:
Yep......
Speaking of which, a couple years ago at a family BBQ, me and my stepbrothers were talking about hunting and shooting when my nephew blurts out, guns are illegal. He learned that school:mad:Why try and take something by force when you can teach the masses to just give it away.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Singlestack Wonder
10-26-13, 12:55
Another example of an LEO agency's abuse of a private citizen.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/foghorn/dc-police-raid-home-arrest-man-for-possession-of-single-shotgun-shell-and-spent-cartridge/
As usual, the police wore masks to hide their identity.
Granted I'm only in my 20s but looking objectively at the totality of present day events things seem to be a notches more intense than in years past when it comes to the overzealous targeting of 2A related issues. No?
Granted I'm only in my 20s but looking objectively at the totality of present day events things seem to be a notches more intense than in years past when it comes to the overzealous targeting of 2A related issues. No?
I'd say it's comparable with the Clinton Administration. One could argue it was worse under Carter because FOPA didn't exist yet.
Epic thread. In going to go get some lunch and probably skip my Glock & carry my apparently useless DA/SA P30.
Why try and take something by force when you can teach the masses to just give it away.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Over my dad's again today another nephew was watching Ice age :meltdown where dinosaurs have to escape to higher ground because glaciers are melting. Holy ****.
Over my dad's again today another nephew was watching Ice age :meltdown where dinosaurs have to escape to higher ground because glaciers are melting. Holy ****.Ya I know what you mean. I really sincerely think the main reason they made the most recent Abraham Lincoln movie, was to teach youth he was in fact not a vampire slayer...
I'd say it's comparable with the Clinton Administration. One could argue it was worse under Carter because FOPA didn't exist yet.
Were gun owners equated to being enemies of the state back than too? Granted a lot of what is going on now is ideologically driven but still.
Were gun owners equated to being enemies of the state back than too? Granted a lot of what is going on now is ideologically driven but still.
Under Clinton/Reno certainly. They'd portray them in any negative light necessary to demonize them and guns in general.
Under Carter is wasn't exactly the same but the opportunity for abuse was significant. ATF entrapment was rampant at gun shows. Basically they'd set up a table and sell guns for very attractive prices. Then UC agents would solicit those customers to sell them the guns for 10-20% more than they just paid. Thinking they could make the sale and then just go buy another one from the same table and have some pocket money they'd usually sell the gun.
Once the transaction was completed they'd promptly be arrested as an unlicensed dealer buying and selling guns for profit. Typically the person in question would be treated like a real deal outlaw "gunrunner" and the best outcome was massive fines with no jail time. This is why so many collectors had "kitchen table" FFLs in the 70s and 80s to protect them from such ATF stings. People used to get 10 years for what goes on in the For Sale section of every gun forum today.
Many people simply don't understand what it was like before FOPA 86 which fixed many of the abuses the 1968 Gun Control Act permitted.
Moose-Knuckle
10-27-13, 00:03
Citing the example of Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik, who reportedly “stockpiled approximately 12,000 pounds of precursors, weapons, and armor and hid them underground in remote, wooded locations,” the bulletin instructs law enforcement to look for “large amounts of weapons, ammunition, explosives, accelerants, or explosive precursor chemicals” that “could indicate pre-operational terrorist attack planning or criminal activity.” Weapons do not have to be “cached” in remote locations to meet the standard for suspicious activity. According to the bulletin, weapons could be stored in an “individual’s home, storage facility, or vehicle” and may include common firearms such as “rifles, shotguns, pistols” as well as “military grade weapons.” The illegal possession of large amounts of ammunition is also listed as a potential indicator of “criminal weapons possession related to terrorism.” While the bulletin never clarifies what constitutes a “large” or “unusual” quantity of weapons or ammunition, it does say that such a quantity would “arouse suspicion in a reasonable person.”
Ironic as the 9/11 hijackers did not have large or unusual quantities of ammunition or firearms, there weapons of choice was box cutters and commuter aircraft. Timothy McVeigh used a rental truck and some fertilizer. Ted Kaczynski's weapons of choice were electronics, house hold chemicals, the proper proportions, and the US Mail.
But this mentality is not limited to ammunition and firearms; FBI flyers to gun shops/surplus stores. Note quoting the Constitution, purchasing/stockpiling standard capacity mags, MREs, flashlights, and weather proof ammunition storage cans and or match boxes are all indicators of domestic terrorists.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Front.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Front.jpg.html)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Back.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Back.jpg.html)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/fbiflyer.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/fbiflyer.jpg.html)
Moose-Knuckle
10-27-13, 00:12
Were gun owners equated to being enemies of the state back than too? Granted a lot of what is going on now is ideologically driven but still.
Ruby Ridge and Waco, both carried out by Reno and her dirty little helper Eric Holder during the Clinton administration. Both of these umm "incidents" were justified via the old "illegal firearm" song and dance. Fast forward to Barry's administration; the fact that the US taxpayers know that the NSA is monitoring their electronic personas, EO's written into law like that of NDAA and yeah We the People have a reason to hold such notions suspect.
Ironic as the 9/11 hijackers did not have large or unusual quantities of ammunition or firearms, there weapons of choice was box cutters and commuter aircraft. Timothy McVeigh used a rental truck and some fertilizer. Ted Kaczynski's weapons of choice were electronics, house hold chemicals, the proper proportions, and the US Mail.
But this mentality is not limited to ammunition and firearms; FBI flyers to gun shops/surplus stores. Note quoting the Constitution, purchasing/stockpiling standard capacity mags, MREs, flashlights, and weather proof ammunition storage cans and or match boxes are all indicators of domestic terrorists.
Great point about terrorist using everything but what their warning/looking for (Flashlights really?? com'mon now..). Thanks for posting flier, unfortunately it described/"to be on look out" for the entire Southern gun owning population:mad:.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-13, 01:09
Ask them about guns, but NEVER ask if they are here legally.
Great point about terrorist using everything but what their warning/looking for (Flashlights really?? com'mon now..). Thanks for posting flier, unfortunately it described/"to be on look out" for the entire Southern gun owning population:mad:.
No, not just regular flashlights... "night flashlights".
This is why it is prudent to keep your firearms activity and collection under your hat.
Don't flaunt it to neighbors or people you really don't know well. Don't discuss the firearms or amount of ammo you have with co-workers, either. Don't put tons of gun decals all over your vehicles.
And yes, don't leave ammo or guns out in the open in your own home, in case a cop comes in. Nothing for the average Joe to glance in and make them think you have tons of guns or ammunition. Your kid's friends should not see gun or ammunition laying around...anything that can be "reported" back to someone else.
If you have neighbors that are cops, think twice before sharing info on how many guns you have, your ammo stash or even the kinds of guns you own.
Be as low key as possible when it comes to firearms....even if you live in the reddest of red states.
Sorry it has to be this way, but unfortunately this is the country we have de-evolved into being.
-brickboy240Cept people talk about them on the web and some post pictures of them and their ammo collection. Once on the web always on the web.
Ruby Ridge and Waco, both carried out by Reno and her dirty little helper Eric Holder during the Clinton administration.
Minor point, but Ruby Ridge occurred during Bush's presidency.
"look out for people who have a large weapon and ammunition supply"
And the definition of a "large weapon and ammunition supply" is what...?
"look out for people who have a large weapon and ammunition supply"
And the definition of a "large weapon and ammunition supply" is what...?
That depends on where you live. A large weapon and ammunition supply in New York City would be considered a one week supply in parts of Texas, Montana or Georgia. For a three gun match shooter it might be a two day supply.
Nothing about this has been mentioned to us; but patrol officers should be making note of such things anyways when they encounter them IMO
First I've heard of this.
That would mean I'd have to watch a few of my beat partners who happen to be good friends.
"look out for people who have a large weapon and ammunition supply"
And the definition of a "large weapon and ammunition supply" is what...?
More than a couple of officials can carry would be my guess..
wild_wild_wes
10-27-13, 17:16
Fear & Control.
"A Republic, madam, if you can keep it."
Dear Federal Government:
You can't consider the entire state of Wyoming a potential terrorist threat, despite how much you may want to.
This is so stupid.
Notice the "illegal possession of large quantities of ammunition", since when was there a quantity limit on ammo that pushed it into the "illegal to own" realm?
I'm also interested in the legal definition of "quantities" as used here.
wild_wild_wes
10-27-13, 19:26
I'm also interested in the legal definition of "quantities" as used here.
At a guess, anything more than a Fudd or a housewife might have... say, more than three rifles and four boxes of ammo.
domestique
10-27-13, 19:26
I was thinking of buying another headlamp for backpacking.... maybe one of the new Surefires?
I guess I'll wait till next year, being that I bought a Black Diamond lamp last week I wouldn't want to cause any red flags.
I can't imagine any gun store owner or level headed police officers would take that pamphlet seriously.
domestique
10-27-13, 19:28
At a guess, anything more than a Fudd or a housewife might have... say, more than three rifles and four boxes of ammo.
I have hunting buddies that have less then 20 rounds a year for deer hunting.
SeriousStudent
10-27-13, 23:37
I was thinking of buying another headlamp for backpacking.... maybe one of the new Surefires?
I guess I'll wait till next year, being that I bought a Black Diamond lamp last week I wouldn't want to cause any red flags.
I can't imagine any gun store owner or level headed police officers would take that pamphlet seriously.
Indeed. One of my neighbors a few houses down is a Sgt with the local PD. When we talked about it, he honestly laughed.
"Yeah, I guess about 95 percent of the department is on a watch list now." :haha:
To put this in perspective, my local PD co-hosted a pair of free seminars at a local Cabela's:
"Using your shotgun for home defense" and
"Picking the right AR for you."
I guess we are just weird down here in Texas.
MountainRaven
10-27-13, 23:56
At a guess, anything more than a Fudd or a housewife might have... say, more than three rifles and four boxes of ammo.
I recall seeing somewhere, I forget where, it was some years ago, that the average hunter had more guns than the average shooter. With numbers being something like 14 and 8, respectively. As someone who was a shooter and hunter and trying to keep things to 4 guns (1 shotgun, 1 rifle, 1 handgun, 1 rimfire), that was pretty amazing to me.
SeriousStudent
10-28-13, 00:24
That's an interesting statistic. I have a couple of buddies at work that are big into hunting and fishing, but not interesting in the firearms that we would be.
I'll ask them tomorrow, and try and get a count by type.
I'd honestly never thought about it, but I bet it might be right for those guys. I know they hunt birds and deer, and one has started hunting pigs and coyotes, too. Hmmmmm...
CarlosDJackal
10-28-13, 00:38
"Feds Say Possession of “Large Amounts” of Weapons May Indicate Terrorist Activity"
What exactly do they consider is a "large amount"?
The National Firearms Museum, The Infantry Museum, the William F Cody Museum, and all those other such places should watch out. It won't be long before they are considered centers or terrorist activity.
I wonder how many Fudds own enough scatterguns to also be put on notice?
"Feds Say Possession of “Large Amounts” of Weapons May Indicate Terrorist Activity"
What exactly do they consider is a "large amount"?
You know, like a few less than terrorists like Elvis Presley or Charleton Heston had. Because with that many, they MUST be terrorists by this logic. :rolleyes:
Moose-Knuckle
10-28-13, 01:43
Minor point, but Ruby Ridge occurred during Bush's presidency.
I stand corrected, Clinton took office in '93, Ruby Ridge transpired in August of '92.
You know, like a few less than terrorists like Elvis Presley or Charleton Heston had. Because with that many, they MUST be terrorists by this logic. :rolleyes:
And god help you if you like to cook and own a pressure cooker too.
platoonDaddy
10-28-13, 11:13
You know, like a few less than terrorists like Elvis Presley or Charleton Heston had. Because with that many, they MUST be terrorists by this logic. :rolleyes:
Patrick J. Buchanan years ago was on WMAL in DC for three hours per day, I will never forget him talking about when Elvis visited the White House during the Nixon Administration. Pat said "when Elvis and his entourage of bodyguards visited the WH, they had more weapons then the Secret Service!"
MountainRaven
10-28-13, 11:58
That's an interesting statistic. I have a couple of buddies at work that are big into hunting and fishing, but not interesting in the firearms that we would be.
I'll ask them tomorrow, and try and get a count by type.
I'd honestly never thought about it, but I bet it might be right for those guys. I know they hunt birds and deer, and one has started hunting pigs and coyotes, too. Hmmmmm...
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
If you're a shooter, what do you have? An AR or two, a bolt gun or two, a couple handguns, and maybe a shotgun. Or if you're a big shotgun shooter, drop the number of ARs and bolt guns and raise the number of shotguns. Same thing with handguns, if you're much more into shooting action pistol. You're more concerned about one thing, with some ancillary interests, and maintaining commonality of your ammunition across as broad a spectrum of firearms as possible.
If you're a hunter, what do you have? Well, you've got to have a bolt action varmint gun - or two (like, say, a 204 Ruger and a 22-250). A big game rifle for deer - or two (say a 243 and a 270 Win). A big game rifle for elk - or two (maybe a 30-06 and a 338 Win Mag). A 12-gauge for ducks and geese, a 12-gauge for turkeys, a 12-gauge for deer, a 12-gauge for home defense, a 20-gauge for upland birds. Plus a plethora of rimfires (bolts in 17 and 22, autos in 22) and a few handguns - probably a 1911 or a Glock, a revolver in 44 Mag and another one in 357, and a Ruger Mk2 or -3 or S&W Model 617. And maybe an AR. It seems that you're more interested in having a variety of arms with (often) overlapping capabilities.
domestique
10-28-13, 12:25
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
If you're a shooter, what do you have? An AR or two, a bolt gun or two, a couple handguns, and maybe a shotgun. Or if you're a big shotgun shooter, drop the number of ARs and bolt guns and raise the number of shotguns. Same thing with handguns, if you're much more into shooting action pistol. You're more concerned about one thing, with some ancillary interests, and maintaining commonality of your ammunition across as broad a spectrum of firearms as possible.
If you're a hunter, what do you have? Well, you've got to have a bolt action varmint gun - or two (like, say, a 204 Ruger and a 22-250). A big game rifle for deer - or two (say a 243 and a 270 Win). A big game rifle for elk - or two (maybe a 30-06 and a 338 Win Mag). A 12-gauge for ducks and geese, a 12-gauge for turkeys, a 12-gauge for deer, a 12-gauge for home defense, a 20-gauge for upland birds. Plus a plethora of rimfires (bolts in 17 and 22, autos in 22) and a few handguns - probably a 1911 or a Glock, a revolver in 44 Mag and another one in 357, and a Ruger Mk2 or -3 or S&W Model 617. And maybe an AR. It seems that you're more interested in having a variety of arms with (often) overlapping capabilities.
I know guys with a 12 Guage, 270/30-06 and a 22 lr.
They have taken many deer and small game in their day.
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