Good Range Session

[Jay Cunningham]

I hit the range today with a primary goal: practice two major lessons learned from my most recent Vickers Tactical class. These would be accelerating the drawstroke and presentation to give myself that extra bit of time for the actual shot, and resetting the trigger of my pistol during the recoil and not after. As secondary goals, I got to practice proper emergency reloads and some transition drills from a down carbine.

This may be old news to a lot of you, but I was indoctrinated in "front sight; press - follow through - reset" and I quickly reached a performance plateau. LAV's advice to reset during the recoil cycle was one of those "lightbulb moments" for me. I also have a tendency to drop my pistol shots straight down a couple of inches when I try to pick up my speed... I think it's from me pushing the pistol forward or something. Now that I am aware of LAV's advice to kill on the drawstroke and slow it down just a bit to break the shot I'm getting much better results.

[tjcoker]

You may very well not be in the 'window licking' crowd the next time you take an LAV class. Your practice may very well elevate you into a prize winning crowd.

Me personally... I'm doing some of the same practice you mention so as not to be riding the short yellow bus during this upcoming June So Cal vist by the messiah Mr. LAV himself.

Amazing how you can have lightbulb moments in Larry's classes even after taking mucho training from others.

[Heavy Metal]

I was practicing this yesterday and think I was being too agressive on the reset.

I doubled a couple of times.

[Redhat]

You mentioned accelerating the draw stroke...did he happen to have a standard time to get out and on target?

Thanks

[Jay Cunningham]

I was practicing this yesterday and think I was being too agressive on the reset.

I doubled a couple of times.

I do this with a carbine occasionally.

[Jay Cunningham]

You mentioned accelerating the draw stroke...did he happen to have a standard time to get out and on target?

Thanks

LAV does have times that he uses at different distances but I don't have any of them written down. There are some good drills w/times out there if you do a little looking. I plan on having a pen and paper and sheet with drills and different par times next time I hit the range with the shot timer.

[the1911fan]

I was practicing this yesterday and think I was being too agressive on the reset.

I doubled a couple of times.

I don't see that as a bad thing

[mark5pt56]

Some things to keep in mind is to work at your speed and do things right. Going through the drill to get the mechanics correct, then start pushing the envelope. Get to where you can keep doing it right without mistakes. If you are making mistakes, throttle it back some, get it right, then push some more.

I've found through time, that a timed one shot drill will usually have a quicker shot on target vs the first shot when doing a multi shot drill. Why is that you ask? Because most people will sacrifice the grip on the one shot drill, knowing that's the only shot they have to take and won't need to maintain a good grip to take others.

As far as times, there are alot of variables that affect those. Distances, holsters, difficulty of shot, etc. If you get at 2 yards and clear the holster, level the gun and shoot a full silhouette, you're fast. I did a .76 Friday from a level 3 holster. Now go back to 7 yards and get a sure hit on a B8 center and it goes to a 1.3-1.7 with a level 3 for me. An open top, zero retention will speed things up, but at what cost.

[Redhat]

Mark5.56,

I was only referring to the draw without a shot. Just wanted to see what might be a good target time for a standard.

Thanks

[mark5pt56]

Mark5.56,

I was only referring to the draw without a shot. Just wanted to see what might be a good target time for a standard.

Thanks

To be more precise, reacting off a timer and recording the shot is the best way I know to record that.

You can do it dry with a par time, but it won't be exact.

[ToddG]

You can do it dry with a par time, but it won't be exact.

The benefit of a par time is that it pushes you to beat a standard rather than just "do it fast" each time. By incrementally dropping the par time, most people will force themselves to speed up more than they realized they could.

[mark5pt56]

The benefit of a par time is that it pushes you to beat a standard rather than just "do it fast" each time. By incrementally dropping the par time, most people will force themselves to speed up more than they realized they could.


I meant to say if he had to do it dry. This was he mentioned that just want to time his draw only. I'm aware of the use of par times.

[ToddG]

mark -- Gotcha, misread on my part. Mea culpa.

[mark5pt56]

I know you've been on a Rogers Range, that really pushes you to go fast. It can also make you get sloppy if you over do it.

[mark5pt56]

I don't see that as a bad thing

I may be wrong, but I think it is bad-he technically had an ND

[Jay Cunningham]

I may be wrong, but I think it is bad-he technically had an ND

Agree - like I said, I have unintentionally doubled with my carbine while range shooting... undesirable to say the least, but my muzzle was pointed in a safe direction and covering something I was willing to shoot and I knew my target and what was beyond my target.

[Heavy Metal]

Agree - like I said, I have unintentionally doubled with my carbine while range shooting... undesirable to say the least, but my muzzle was pointed in a safe direction and covering something I was willing to shoot and I knew my target and what was beyond my target.


Exactly. I did not want the shot to break the way it did but the hillside 50M away more than stopped the round. I was alone at a friends farm shooting in a big bowl.

[ToddG]

I know you've been on a Rogers Range, that really pushes you to go fast. It can also make you get sloppy if you over do it.

Agreed 100%.

Rogers is a great program, in fact I'm probably going back down there next week as part of my M&P "test." And for most people under most circumstances, the ability to hit a 8" plate at 18m (almost 20yd) in 0.75 seconds under stress is pretty good.

(see the targets as they appeared in 2002 (http://9x19mm.com/toddg/video/rogers.mov) ... my understanding is that there is now another turning target in the mix)

But you can also get through the program without ever hitting that far target (I'd have to watch all the test runs, but I don't think you can make Advanced rating if you miss all of them). The next farthest is 12m (just over 13yd). We're definitely not talking bullseye shooting.

Having said that, I've been twice before and it's crushed a lot of SOF and SWAT guys in those classes. You need to score 70 out of 125 at least once out of the six times you're tested during the week. Unlike a lot of schools, Rogers doesn't give you a pass just for showing up. If you want to go home with the honor of even Pass: Basic on your certificate, you need to hit 70 plates.