View Full Version : Mil/Mill Optics Under $800?
Will_Power
10-28-13, 12:24
Guys,
Would like your thoughts on these three scopes for use on a .223 AR-15 for use in (ed: coyote and possible varmint) hunting and practical/tactical precision shooting matches.
1. SWFA SS 3-15x42 (FFP)
2. Vortex HS 5-15x44 (Side Focus)
3. Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 (FFP)
Do any of these stand out as vastly superior to y'all?
Since I'm not going to be going much past 600 yards or so, I don't know if I need the 15x magnification, but it seems like I'd rather have it and not need it rather than the other way around - even if I've got more size and weight in trade.
Your thoughts?
Guys,
Would like your thoughts on these three scopes for use on a .223 AR-15 for use in hunting and practical/tactical precision shooting matches.
1. SWFA SS 3-15x42 (FFP)
2. Vortex HS 5-15x44 (Side Focus)
3. Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 (FFP)
Do any of these stand out as vastly superior to y'all?
Since I'm not going to be going much past 600 yards or so, I don't know if I need the 15x magnification, but it seems like I'd rather have it and not need it rather than the other way around - even if I've got more size and weight in trade.
Your thoughts?
I'd go with the PST 2.5-10x32 FFP all day long.
I don't care for the SWFA reticle (when compared to Vortex's) and the 5-15x Vortex HS is a little too much mag on the low end for my liking. I don't see a problem with 15x for 600 yd shooting, but would likely only use that power range for ID'ing and still be keeping it around 10x for shooting. Either way you'll want FFP as I found out with my 2.5-10x44 PST (SFP model) at John McPhees Heavy Gunner class.
Here's some more thoughts on the Vortex PST FFP model: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=141076
The Bushnell 3-12x should be on your list.
http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/p384.html
$1k retail, but Liberty Optics has them on sale if you add it to cart.
Bushnell has a unique policy. If for any reason you aren't satisfied with it you can return it to Bushnell and they will refund the purchase price to you no questions asked.
Illuminated mil-dot, locking exposed .1 mil turrets, parallax adjustment...the only thing I don't like is its length. Some new(er) designs are 12", but everything there, ie Mark 6 etc, are about $1k higher in price.
I keep going back to the Bushnell. I want the new Nightforce, but its hard to justify the huge price difference.
Bushnell also has a 6-24x version of the same scope, which might make a good companion scope for a bolt-gun or .308 platform.
Rockhopper
10-28-13, 19:04
get the pst for light weight and illumination, or the swfa for the extra mag, but its alot heavier. i chose the pst personally.
I just picked up the bushnell 3-12x44 g2dmr for $700 on a sale. It's mill/mill ffp with a reticle that has a subtensions tree at the bottom for windage like a horus. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but the quality seems good. This is my first scope though so maybe someone else could chime in.
I really like the Vortex PST 2.5-10x32.
You can easilly do close quarters shooting at 2.5x and 500m shooting with 10x.
The Bushnell 3-12x should be on your list.
http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/p384.html
$1k retail, but Liberty Optics has them on sale if you add it to cart.
Bushnell has a unique policy. If for any reason you aren't satisfied with it you can return it to Bushnell and they will refund the purchase price to you no questions asked.
Illuminated mil-dot, locking exposed .1 mil turrets, parallax adjustment...the only thing I don't like is its length. Some new(er) designs are 12", but everything there, ie Mark 6 etc, are about $1k higher in price.
I keep going back to the Bushnell. I want the new Nightforce, but its hard to justify the huge price difference.
Bushnell also has a 6-24x version of the same scope, which might make a good companion scope for a bolt-gun or .308 platform.
I just picked up the bushnell 3-12x44 g2dmr for $700 on a sale. It's mill/mill ffp with a reticle that has a subtensions tree at the bottom for windage like a horus. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but the quality seems good. This is my first scope though so maybe someone else could chime in.
I would second both of these comments. The only correction is you only get the no questions asked refund for the first year I'm fairly sure. After that it is limited lifetime warranty. I got my 3-12x44 G2DMR for a little over $700 from Liberty Optics. I love shooting with this scope and probably won't go back to SFP for my primary rifle. Corrections are so quick it's unbelievable. The reticle isn't as busy or distracting as some would have you believe.
The only complaint I have about the Bushnell is the eye relief, exit pupil and weight could be slightly better. I don't think you'll be able to find a FFP with 44mm objective that much lighter though.
I'm interested in the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP for the 2.5 mag and FFP. Curious why the exit pupil spec isn't listed anywhere and why the 32mm objective? I'm no optics expert but from what I understand the larger the object the more light gathering generally speaking.
I'm interested in the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP for the 2.5 mag and FFP. Curious why the exit pupil spec isn't listed anywhere and why the 32mm objective? I'm no optics expert but from what I understand the larger the object the more light gathering generally speaking.
Why did Nightforce make a 24mm objective 2.5-10x?
I have the PST 6-24 SFP and my buddy has the PST 2.5-10 FFP. His scope has better glass than mine.
Why did Nightforce make a 24mm objective 2.5-10x?
I don't know. Does it gather light as well as other larger objectives? I take it by your rhetorical question that a smaller objective does not always mean less light gathering?
Why did Nightforce make a 24mm objective 2.5-10x?
Larger objectives equal more weight.
But, I think a better question would be why did Nightforce update the product first with a 32mm objective then a 42mm objective...
Have you considered the Leupold VXR Patrol with the mil dot reticle?
caelumatra
10-31-13, 11:15
Personally I'd go with the SWFA or the Bushnell. Vortex is out for me because of the 3 of their products that I've owned, 0 of them worked without problem. That's just my experience with them. I know others have had good experience with Vortex and that's fine for them but mine have been all bad.
You can get a Bushnell that has the G2 reticle which was designed by GAPrecision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2_RFmfcws He starts on about the reticle at around 2 minutes in.
The HDMR in this video is 1149 from Liberty Optics but the reticle is the same.
http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d69.html#p147#p476
The site works in a way that I can't seem to find the link for the exact scope lol but its this one 3-12 with the G2: BUSET3124FG Pirce on the site says $899, but its $764 in the cart.
Here is Lowlight's review of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F5KWrbuezg
I have the ERS with the same reticle and Liberty Optics is the place to get these scopes. Their prices are great!
Of those choices, for that stated purpose, the PST 2.5-10x32. FFP and reportedly the best optical clarity of the entire PST line.
I previously owned two Viper HS 5-15x44s; they have been discontinued in favor of the HS-T 4-16x44 (I own two of those, which replaced the 5-15x). They are fine optics, especially at their price point. I prefer the mil-hash of the HS-T but the plain mildot in the 5-15x is fine. I hunted with mine last year in a wooded river bottom and did not feel like 5x was too much magnification, then again I wouldn't try to CQB the thing either.
My FrankenSPR wears a Weaver GS Tactical 3-10x40 mil/mil. I've shot it as far as 900yd though my typical long distance is 650 and 80%+ of my shooting inside of 200. For $300 it is clear, repeatable, and a great value.
Weaver 3-15 Tactical 30mm/SF mil/mil
Stock # - WEA800363
$764.95
http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-15x50-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P49448.aspx
Matte
Illuminated EMDR
30mm
Side Focus
.1/10MIL Click Value
First Focal Plane Reticle
Weight (oz): 27.33
Length (in): 13.5
Eye Relief (in): 3.98
Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 33.9 - 6.8
Exit Pupil (mm): 10.52 - 3.34
I've got this Weaver scope in an ADDMOUNT on 18" WOA SPR upper and have found this to be a very good 'BANG FOR BUCK' scope.
These ain't NF, S&B or Swaro quality, but they aren't +$2400 either. For less than 8 bills I'm happy with this one.
Doc. Holiday
11-25-13, 14:08
PST line! The 2.5 is awesome! Had a chance to check it out first hand last week. Very nice piece of work! I have the 4-16 and love it!
Why did Nightforce make a 24mm objective 2.5-10x?
Because it allowed them to make a compact scope. Larger objectives will allow more light to pass through the scope but then it's larger and often heavier. TANSTAAFL
I would second both of these comments. The only correction is you only get the no questions asked refund for the first year I'm fairly sure. After that it is limited lifetime warranty. I got my 3-12x44 G2DMR for a little over $700 from Liberty Optics. I love shooting with this scope and probably won't go back to SFP for my primary rifle. Corrections are so quick it's unbelievable. The reticle isn't as busy or distracting as some would have you believe.
The only complaint I have about the Bushnell is the eye relief, exit pupil and weight could be slightly better. I don't think you'll be able to find a FFP with 44mm objective that much lighter though.
I'm interested in the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP for the 2.5 mag and FFP. Curious why the exit pupil spec isn't listed anywhere and why the 32mm objective? I'm no optics expert but from what I understand the larger the object the more light gathering generally speaking.
i have the 3-12x44 g2dmr ffp and i love it for its intended purpose: shooting plates up to 600y on my spr. would purchase again.
BrigandTwoFour
12-04-13, 22:37
I finally got my PST 2.5-10x32 FFP MRAD after a seven month backorder wait, it was worth it. The glass is very nice, and the scope feels well made. My astigmatism gives me a bit of trouble with reticle illumination, but that was expected.
I have heard a lot of good things about the Bushnell elite tactical line as well, though.
I believe Bushnell owns what used to be Bausch & Lomb elite model scopes which is probably the reason for the excellent quality.
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