View Full Version : Best rifle choice for this purpose
Purpose:
Precision (1-2MOA w/match ammo) out to 800 yds for at least 10 shots.
More energy/ballistic performance than 5.56
Lightweight (7-8 lbs loaded w/glass)
Short (20" or shorter barrel, 16" ideal)
In my head, I want a Remington Model 7 in .308 with a synthetic stock and maybe a Vortex 2.5-10x32. I don't know if that is accurate enough, though.
I currently have a 1976 MFR wood-stocked Ruger M77 in 30/06 with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40. There isn't much of a real need for a precision rifle in my area, which is why I've owned two and let them go...they never get shot because there's nowhere to shoot them. Both were heavy-barreled Remington 700's in HS precision stocks and both shot very well, but were a pain to hunt deer with because of their weight. The problem with the Ruger is accuracy. 3 shots and it's done. 100yd groups open up from 3 rounds stacked to 6+ inches after that 4th or 5th shot.
So, what's your best recommendation for a "walking sniper" rifle?
ETA: I know this is in the bolt action section, but what about the Smith M&P 10 for the purpose described above?
That's going to be a tough criteria. The Model Seven is going to heat up and string as bad as your Ruger past three shots.
Frankly, it sounds like a strange course almost tailored to a concept rifle somebody wants to sell. I saw a post on Sniper's Hide a few months ago with similar requests.
Man, I'd hate to shoot a .308 in that weight range for a 10-20 shot string.
I honestly don't know of anything other than pencil-barrel hunting rifles that will come in that weight range and you're going to have REALLY light glass to accomplish this. For a light rifle, what I have is a 700 with Rem varmint contour at 20" in a B&C stock and Leupold 3.5-10x TMR/M5 knobs. It comes in over your weight requirement (8 pound range without bipod), but meets your accuracy needs. You couldn't lighten up the concept a bit more with aluminum bases/rings, a 16.5" version of the barrel (which is going to hurt your 1-2 MOA criteria at 800 yards), and a good muzzle-brake to tame it.
Id look into one of the 20 inch 700 like the SPS Tac. Get the barrel cut to 16 inches and fluted. Add a decent stock and that PST and it should be close to what you want.
you're going to look at me like i'm from mars or something, but it sounds like you want a contender/encore style pistol, which lots of people get in rifle calibers, put bipods on, and shoot at long range.
https://www.google.com/search?q=contender+encore+pistol+bipod&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=g3BxUvTbLM3lkAe304HYCQ&ved=0CFEQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=703
it ain't 'tactical', but you can certainly hit steel and hunt with it
that said, i think your requirements for a 'walking sniper rifle' are way off. all the snipers i know, which quite a few, hump 15-30 lb guns as far as they need to.
Have you looked at the Tikka T3 rifles? They are very light and have a box magazine, as well as an excellent trigger. My .308 with the Vortex Viper PST FFP 4-16 mounted with opti-loc rings weighs in at 8.6 lbs, with a lower magnification optic or shortening the barrel you can shed some weight. This rifle is a sub-MOA shooter with FGMM, but where it is a lighter barrel it does open up after a couple shots, but not as bad as one would think.
you're going to look at me like i'm from mars or something, but it sounds like you want a contender/encore style pistol, which lots of people get in rifle calibers, put bipods on, and shoot at long range.
Like these? In all fairness, the top one is a 460 and isn't a long range pistol but the bottom one is. I had that chambered in 7mm-08 Ackley Improved and is my long range hunting pistol of choice.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp163/bobsarmory/460_zpsc1aa1443.jpg (http://s408.photobucket.com/user/bobsarmory/media/460_zpsc1aa1443.jpg.html)
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp163/bobsarmory/IMG_0640.jpg (http://s408.photobucket.com/user/bobsarmory/media/IMG_0640.jpg.html)
If you have the money, a carbon fiber wrapped barrel from Proof and one of their carbon fiber stocks makes for a very accurate and lightweight package.
Caylen from Magpul Dynamics has a PROOF built 6.5 creedmore that shoots lights out and scoped is probably 8-9 lbs.
Id look into one of the 20 inch 700 like the SPS Tac. Get the barrel cut to 16 inches and fluted. Add a decent stock and that PST and it should be close to what you want.
I've had one in the past with a Leupold MKIV...great gun, shot lights out, but way too heavy and cumbersome for hauling around.
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_7278.jpg
The more I think about this, the more I think I want a gas gun...off to the semi-auto section I suppose.
High Tower
10-30-13, 21:03
If you have the money, a carbon fiber wrapped barrel
This was my initial thought as well. I'm not sure if it would hold the accuracy for a 10-20 string though.
I've seen a lot of guys using the Remington 700 for your purpose. I saw a guy shoot 1 moa at 600 yards with a 300 win mag Remington 700 sps that had a bedded stock and some nice glass on it. He let me break a fee shots and man was it nice.
I was like, squeeze, bang, YEE HAAWWWWW!!!
I say rebarrel a 700 in something like 6.5 creedmoor, 6 creedmoor or something like that. get a sportier barrel contour with a bedded stock and a good trigger job and you should be able to keep 1moa. you may have to let the barrel cool more but if you want to carry it around that's your best option. you could always hit the gym more and get a heavy barrel :D
You might need to bump that weight up a pound, ideally around 9 to get what you want. A good light palma profile should be light enough and work when heated to that degree. The Manners light weight carbon fiber stocks will help with weight a bunch also- don't start adding a bunch of swivel points either. Some have three bottom, two each side fore and aft.
I have to add more to that weight. I just weighed an FN PBR XP with a Harris 6-9, Leupold MK4 LR/T M3, nylon sling and Triad stock pack and it's at 12. This has a steel hinged floorplate and standard Hogue Extreme stock-far better than the base one used on the rem. Anyhow, how can you save weight?
Aluminum floorplate - if requiring the 10 round cap for a detachable mag, you will add weight over the steel FP
Stock- The lightweight options such as the Manners.
No stock pack
No Bipod
I have aluminum rings with steel base-you could use the Talley one piece aluminum rings, no moa, but light and strong. If needing the 20 moa cant, Night Force Direct Mount.
Barrel, mine is 20" light flutes and should be approx of Light Palma.
Scope, you might shave 4-6 ounces of of the Leupold if using another brand with similar features.
Mark, thanks for the input. How do you feel about running a short bolt gun with a detachable mag and some kind of a LPV optic against a semi-auto. Something like a Ruger Gunsite maybe?
59_Gretsch
10-31-13, 14:15
How about the Gladius from GAP?
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) screwed my selling...damn it! SPELLING!
Once we start thinning the barrel more on the bolt gun, we start splitting hairs with accuracy vs the semi I think. Weight then might be the issue with the semi, I don't know about the weights of those in this class. My vote is for a bolt gun, set up like you want it. Also, if it's balanced well, a 11-12 pound bolt gun is nice. My standard Ruger GSR is pretty accurate, I bet the 18" stainless model will give you the accuracy you need and the weight will be in check. According to the site, 7.1, add the scope, sling and you are under 9. Do you need the rapid fire capability of the semi? Didn't know if this was for any type of match shooting, which plenty run a bolt in, referring to High Power.
As a side note, CDI and Pacific Tool and Gauge should be making if not already, aluminum metal for the Ruger. The PTG will be in the "Stealth" model(extends below the stock and is nice, example from other models)
I can't speak for the Tikka's and Sako's, but everyone speaks highly of them, another idea.
This would be nice on the Ruger if needing a brake. (.860) is the smallest diameter)
http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/2-BAD-MRAD-RAPID-BRAKE-TM-5-8-24TPI-up-to-338Mag-BAD-MRAD-RB.htm
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html
How about the Gladius from GAP?
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) screwed my selling...damn it! SPELLING!
The Gladius would be an excellent choice, but over his weight requirement. They come in at 10 lbs or so before scope.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
another angle that isn't being covered is a good sling. I hunt with a heavy gun. I use a biathlon style sling, it splits up the weight between both sholders. makes the long hike into my stand much more comfortable
Not a biathlon, but this is pretty handy. I have the basic now on the FN and plan on getting a couple more.
http://rifle-craft.com/product-category/rifle-slings/
caelumatra
11-01-13, 07:25
Custom build a LW bolt gun?
Remington 700 ADL in 308 but discard the stock and replace with this: http://mdttac.com/lss-chassis-remington-700.html
1.6 pounds plus however much just the barrel and action weigh plus the glass. You could add in the Proof barrel to this is we're talking budgetless here but that's a really light requirement
If you have a thread in the semi I'll probably say this there too but I have an 18" Noveske 308 in a MaTen. I've had the barrel dimpled to shed weight and it has just an MOE stock on it. It was as light as I could make it and empty with no glass it still weighed 9 pounds. Now that I've put glass and rings on it its almost 13 empty.
Custom build a LW bolt gun?
Remington 700 ADL in 308 but discard the stock and replace with this: http://mdttac.com/lss-chassis-remington-700.html
1.6 pounds plus however much just the barrel and action weigh plus the glass. You could add in the Proof barrel to this is we're talking budgetless here but that's a really light requirement
If you have a thread in the semi I'll probably say this there too but I have an 18" Noveske 308 in a MaTen. I've had the barrel dimpled to shed weight and it has just an MOE stock on it. It was as light as I could make it and empty with no glass it still weighed 9 pounds. Now that I've put glass and rings on it its almost 13 empty.
The weight on the M&P 10 is 7-3/4lb empty. A guy posted a pic of his with a Troy TRX handguard, CTR stock, and Leupold 3-9 markAR, with a loaded 20rd PMAG at 11lb. That woks pretty well for me. My ACOG will be lighter than his Leupold/mount so I should be somewhere around the 10lb mark.
As far as accuracy, every report I've seen put it at 1-1.5 MOA with quality hunting ammo (I plan to use the Federal Fusion bonded load).
I think it'll be a good choice.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I'm in love with Kimber Montana's. Weighing 6.6 lbs with a Leupold 3.5-10 scope in Talley light weight mounts. I have one in 204 Ruger and a custom in 22-250AI. Both will put 5 shots well under MOA, I've never tried 10.
I also have a Remington 700 mountain rifle in 243 AI that weighs 7.5 lbs and shoots well under MOA. Light barrels do shoot and there are better options than the 308. And yes I do have a Rem 700 XCR Tactical in 308 but it doesn't get shot much anymore.
You might be able to do it with a properly configured Cooper model 54.
I'm in love with Kimber Montana's. Weighing 6.6 lbs with a Leupold 3.5-10 scope in Talley light weight mounts. I have one in 204 Ruger and a custom in 22-250AI. Both will put 5 shots well under MOA, I've never tried 10.
I also have a Remington 700 mountain rifle in 243 AI that weighs 7.5 lbs and shoots well under MOA. Light barrels do shoot and there are better options than the 308. And yes I do have a Rem 700 XCR Tactical in 308 but it doesn't get shot much anymore.
Have you ever shot 5 rounds MOA at 800 with these rifles? Light barrel 204s and 22-250s are a completely different game than a .308.
Light barrels can and do shoot fine, but they heat up badly. Most of the time light barrels start to get quite a bit of shift as they heat up. It shows even more at extended ranges like the OP wants to shoot. Also, the mountain rifle 243 has the wrong twist rate to take advantage of long-range bullets.
I have shot to 700 yards and still stay MOA. If your bedding is right and your barrel is unstressed, they work.
Wrong twist? The original barrel was 9.25 and stabilized the 105 Amax just fine. My new barrel which is a #1 Douglas, is a 1/8.
My Colt pencil barreled chrome lined 16" carbine shot the same at 400 yards as it does at 100, 1.5 MOA and that's with a 3x ACOG. We shoot steel plates with pretty much all our guns and I've yet to see one change at range. A heavy gun is easier to shoot but don't discount the light ones.
Of course you need to properly break in your Montana.
http://youtu.be/TRRahHX9Zkg
Even though it's only 3 shots, it's still entertaining.
I'd pick the .308 Win. or a 6.5mm Creedmoor.
Pick a bolt-action of your preference; I'd pick a Remington since they are plentiful, inexpensive, and there are plenty of accessories for it.
Put a Brown Precision graphite stock and use a Proof Research or Christensen Arms cabon fiber-wrapped barrel.
Once you've got that assembled and weighed, install lightweight rings like the ones Gentry makes.
mbogo
My choice
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/E12267DA-F032-492E-AFA6-E04CB319A912-1516-000000E0532A703C_zpsa605bf8c.jpg
I have shot to 700 yards and still stay MOA. If your bedding is right and your barrel is unstressed, they work.
Wrong twist? The original barrel was 9.25 and stabilized the 105 Amax just fine. My new barrel which is a #1 Douglas, is a 1/8.
My Colt pencil barreled chrome lined 16" carbine shot the same at 400 yards as it does at 100, 1.5 MOA and that's with a 3x ACOG. We shoot steel plates with pretty much all our guns and I've yet to see one change at range. A heavy gun is easier to shoot but don't discount the light ones.
You may or may not get lucky with the factory barrels being fast enough. I've seen many that would shoot 105s and some will not. You really need a 1:8" for good 6mm bullets.
While I'm not saying you're being dishonest, I doubt you've much 700 yard shooting with factory Model Sevens (and how does one ensure an "unstressed" barrel from a factory gun?) and other ultra light guns and kept them sub-MOA for 5 and greater shot strings. The reason light guns aren't preferred for precision shooting isn't because of being harder to shoot, but because the barrels heat up too quickly and they tend to string, groups open, and they shift.
Color me lucky times 4 then cause I've seen 4 of the 243 Remington 700 Mountain Guide guns shoot the 105 Amax just fine. And yes I have shot MOA at 700 with my factory Rem barrel, though it was set back, trued and rechambered to 243 AI. I know 2 other guys with the same rifles that did same and one of those was a vanilla 243.
Sako makes a really nice, light and accurate bolt gun in .308 Win.......
Pretty much meets your requested parameters.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v18/p851816651-5.jpg
.30-06 might work for you as well, although you would likely need less scope to make the weight requirement.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v11/p155404800-5.jpg
Edit: Their stock triggers break like glass.
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