can anyone help I.D. this FAL

[hmewrcknb4]

i have Found this FAL and i have always had a man love thursday crush on FALs. But i dont know enough about them except to find ones that are marked FN belgium. This one looks very clean, has the barrel length i want and the hump back stock. Can anyone throw out any advice on this rifle? im posting the link to the rifle because im to retarded to figure out how to post pics here. it looks to have the Gear logo and a PAC serial number, but im not sure if thats equals a quality build? The seller is asking 1600 bones....fair price for this build? .....FYI im new here but i have to say, you guys all seem OAF and run a minimal drama but very informative forum.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=373703951

[yellowfin]

It says Imbel, which means Brazilian. Imbel is very good, and rather late within the years which FAL's were made so fewer years worth of wear and age for stuff to break. Not sure if I know what to call a fair price, especially these days, but it would have been a lot nicer to have bought it 6-8 years ago when it would have been cheaper. You used to be able to get kits to build them for...well....let's just say I wish I'd known about building back when I could have bought one for a week's worth of bar tabs.

[eodinert]

That looks to be a decent rifle, but the crap going on at the end of the barrel would worry me. It says '16 inch barrel', but what's under that ugly muzzle brake? With welds like that, it wouldn't surprise me if the barrel was just chopped and not threaded or crowned. Plus, if it's 16 to the end of the brake, it's too short for non-NFA and you can't swap out your muzzle attachements.

I, too, got into FALs when they were cheap, so I'm a little out of calibration for current market value, but still, that seems a little high to me. I think that is a sub $1K gun as it sits.

[Failure2Stop]

That looks to be a decent rifle, but the crap going on at the end of the barrel would worry me.

Yup.
That welded affair would be a deal breaker for me unless the price was far lower.

[JPB]

That looks to be a decent rifle, but the crap going on at the end of the barrel would worry me. It says '16 inch barrel', but what's under that ugly muzzle brake?

Exactly. I see weld on there where weld doesn't belong. In that price range you could score a clean SAR 48 (a factory Imbel gun imported by Springfield Armory). Some would argue that the SAR 48 is a better FAL than the Belgian Type 3 semi auto offerings due to the forged Imbel receiver (FN Type 3s were cast).

[nabO]

You'll need an asbestos glove after firing a couple mags with those hand guards installed.

In my opinion, it's best to avoid any FAL barrel cut shorter than para length unless you know who did the chopping. There's too much potential for an oversized gas port with an unknown 16" barrel since the port usually needs to be opened up.

[shootist~]

ZA prefix lower s/n prob means a beat to hell Imbel donor parts kit from Southern (not South) Africa. That and the chopped and welded bbl means it's a no go, IMO. Maybe at $650ish for the G/L upper receiver and some spare parts.

[Drummer]

Its a part gun so it all depends on who did the building. Judging from the muzzle device welds, I'd stay away. It was built with a PAC import receiver. I can't tell if the handguards are the metal STG style or the plastic knockoffs. The stock and chraging handle appear to be after market, along with the dust cover mount, obviously. The US stock with the original buttpad looks like crap. Theres a large gap on bottom.

Hang around the falfiles marketplace and look for someone selling one from a known builder.

Edited to add that I hadn't seen an Imbel rifle with vertical take down lever and narrow bolt catch, but maybe they did make some. I know imbel has varied their parts some over the years.

[SteyrAUG]

Parts kit of questionable quality on a Imbel (excellent quality) receiver and most likely a Century Arms build judging by the muzzle brake and sloppy welds, etc. They were crap rifles when they sold for $500.

The price is absurdly high. Get a DSA rifle and buy US metric humpback furniture for it.

[MistWolf]

One FAL expert from South Africa, believes the ZA marking does indeed indicate "South Africa" as the Afrikaans word for "South" begins with a Z. There is a theory that after Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe Army started marking their rifles with ZA numbers using an electro pencil but that makes no sense. Rhodesia electro penciled their rifles with an RA number. I've yet to hear of any rifles that had their RA number scratched out to be replaced with a ZA number. Also, that ZA number is a roll mark. South Africa is the only country in Africa to actually manufacture FALs. I don't know if the lower originally came with the vertical take down lever or horizontal, but they are easy to swap.

The receiver is a PAC import gear logo Imbel. The handguards look to be steel StG. The muzzle brake is typical post ban type and poorly installed. It was common for builders of the era to cut off the threads and weld a brake on. The Angry Beavers (CAI) commonly used that style brake. Buttstock and grip are US knock offs, probably by the Angry Beavers. Carry handle has been removed and a filler installed in the slot. Charging handle knob is an aluminum replacement, probably made by one of the FALFilers.

It's not worth the $1600 asking price. It would be a slow mover at $900. How the brake was welded on means a lot of work or a barrel replacement to make it right. Those brakes are horribly loud and don't work very well

[SteyrAUG]

One FAL expert from South Africa, believes the ZA marking does indeed indicate "South Africa" as the Afrikaans word for "South" begins with a Z. There is a theory that after Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe Army started marking their rifles with ZA numbers using an electro pencil but that makes no sense. Rhodesia electro penciled their rifles with an RA number. I've yet to hear of any rifles that had their RA number scratched out to be replaced with a ZA number. Also, that ZA number is a roll mark. South Africa is the only country in Africa to actually manufacture FALs. I don't know if the lower originally came with the vertical take down lever or horizontal, but they are easy to swap.

The receiver is a PAC import gear logo Imbel. The handguards look to be steel StG. The muzzle brake is typical post ban type and poorly installed. It was common for builders of the era to cut off the threads and weld a brake on. The Angry Beavers (CAI) commonly used that style brake. Buttstock and grip are US knock offs, probably by the Angry Beavers. Carry handle has been removed and a filler installed in the slot. Charging handle knob is an aluminum replacement, probably made by one of the FALFilers.

It's not worth the $1600 asking price. It would be a slow mover at $900. How the brake was welded on means a lot of work or a barrel replacement to make it right. Those brakes are horribly loud and don't work very well

I've seen that aluminum charging handle knob on a LOT of early CAI guns. They built many on Imbel receivers which they sold under the premise that it was an "imported Imbel rifle" when only the receiver was imported. They used a lot of Z grade Stg58 kits for the most part but plenty of burnt Imbel kits found their way into the mix over the years.

Basically it's worth the $250 receiver that you can salvage and build a new rifle on. There are still some quality Imbel parts kits out there with original barrels for decent prices.

If anyone paid more than $500 for that POS they need to have their head examined.

[hmewrcknb4]

Thanks for all the knowledge. I decided to just steer away from a FAL for now, feeding two OBR' s and a mk13 is expensive enough. Im just going to take those funds and ship off the SBR UMP 45 kit this coming week to get finished. I think it would be a wiser investment.

[SteyrAUG]

Thanks for all the knowledge. I decided to just steer away from a FAL for now, feeding two OBR' s and a mk13 is expensive enough. Im just going to take those funds and ship off the SBR UMP 45 kit this coming week to get finished. I think it would be a wiser investment.

When you decide to buy, this is what you want.

http://www.dsarms.com/p-13271-fal-sa58-standard-rifle-21-premium-bipod-cut-barrel-fixed-humpback-buttstock.aspx