View Full Version : Free float or no free float?
I'm a new shooter to the AR platform. I've had a lower built for a while now, and am pinching my pennies for an upper. Uppers with free float rail systems from BCM are looking like about $1000 including the BCG, whereas a KISS upper looks to be about $700 including the BCG. I'm planning to use this rifle inside of 300 yards, and would like to use a 14.5" upper.
For me, at my skill level, I'm fairly sure I'm not going to notice a difference in accuracy between a free float platform and one that's not. But is a free float system a significant improvement, one that will become apparent as I practice?
If your goal is to hit a man sized target inside of 300m, an M4 type rifle with a non-floating handguard will do that all day long if you can. Shoot a kiss rifle until you are experienced enough to determine whether or not you need a floated tube. You might just save yourself some weight and money.
Sent from my phone with my giant, uncoordinated sausage thumbs.
nateebumpo
10-31-13, 15:53
Probably not but depending on how you hold a long gun you might prefer a longer rail over the 7 or 9 inch plastic handguards. what and how you want to mount accesories such as a light or hand stops/grips may put some bearing on what you might want to look for in handguards.
MiamiCracker
10-31-13, 16:29
I was thinking about free floating my upper today. I would say if you can afford it go for it. For me i am staying with my Magpul handguards, and use the money for more ammo.
For most folks, the actual accuracy gained is minimal. I would reconsider the 14.5" barrel, since that will require you to have a muzzle device permanently pinned/welded in place (assuming no SBR).
The biggest gain you will see with a free float tube is consistency of your point of impact regardless of how you hold the handguard. If you lay your non FF handguards on a rest and place enough weight to deflect the barrel, your point of impact will wander. Some shooters have seen significant change in their POI from adrenaline induced pressure on their vertical foregrip.
Everyone has their own opinion as to whether a FF tube is worth the expense, but you won't know if it's something you should worry about until you actually go out & shoot your rifle. If it's a matter of getting a cheap set of handguards and going shooting now, or waiting 6 months until you can afford a FF tube, I say get the cheap handguards and go shoot. You can always get a FF tube later
brushy bill
10-31-13, 17:47
If you're going to do nothing more than add a sling and a light, I'd say Magpul MOE all the way. I can't relate to the expense of the free float unless you have additional requirements.
I'm planning on really adding nothing more than a light and a handstop to the handguard. The sling will be mounted on the stock. I think the best choice for me is to get a KISS upper, then add a rail later if I really need it.
gesundheit
11-03-13, 06:35
Being a new shooter to AR, you are not going to notice difference. My advise is to save your money (a lot of new FF handguards coming to the market will depress prices in future), get comfortable with the platform and then upgrade to FF (if you still feel the need to do that).
"being new shooter you won't see any difference if you don't .... "
Pretty accurate advice you will see time and time again if all you are doing with a new AR is going to the range once in awhile and shooting some groups. Go on youtube and pull down some drills and run them, buy yourself a timer or fiddle with the Surefire shot timer app long enough to get it to work well for you and you still may not see any difference.
When you will begin to see a difference between a FF tube and any non FF rail or plastic handguard set as close as 75 meters is when you go to a class and start working barricades under the guidance of an instructor who really knows how to work the barricade and the positions around them.
Stay off your sling tension (think no more than "2" from 1 to 10) when zeroing as well without FF.
By all means, stay with a non FF handguard until you NEED one so you can give good advice to someone who asks the same question backed up by more firsthand experience.
3ACR_Scout
11-03-13, 07:37
For most folks, the actual accuracy gained is minimal. I would reconsider the 14.5" barrel, since that will require you to have a muzzle device permanently pinned/welded in place (assuming no SBR).
I'll second this. Since you mentioned you were thinking of ordering from BCM, I would consider buying a 16" mid-length upper. You can then put MagPul's MOE handguard on it and build up some shooting experience with it. If you get to the point where you decide you need / want FF handguards, you can have a local armorer swap them out for about $25. Buying a 14.5" upper with a pinned muzzle device will make this much more difficult and expensive.
Give yourself more options now, and then consider a 14.5" upper later down the road if you think it fits your needs.
Dave
Bearded_Brometheus
11-03-13, 08:56
I'm a new shooter to the AR platform. I've had a lower built for a while now, and am pinching my pennies for an upper. Uppers with free float rail systems from BCM are looking like about $1000 including the BCG, whereas a KISS upper looks to be about $700 including the BCG. I'm planning to use this rifle inside of 300 yards, and would like to use a 14.5" upper.
For me, at my skill level, I'm fairly sure I'm not going to notice a difference in accuracy between a free float platform and one that's not. But is a free float system a significant improvement, one that will become apparent as I practice?
Personally, I'd throw the Magpul handguards on it & use the money saved to buy ammo/classes. After you get some more experience with the platform you will be better suited to make decisions on further upgrades.
When I first got out of the Corps, I went full retard and tricked out my first AR because I thought I needed it to be the most HSLD boomstick in the universe. Dropped fat cash on it & had no money to spend on ammo. Basically I was walking around with a $2500 AR and not enough skills to justify it.
Years later I bought my first KISS AR. I got a BCM middy w/ moe handguards, Comp ML2 & Inforce light. I scoured the interwebz, bought nearly all the parts used & came away with a top-notch AR for under $1300. Now it's my HD AR & what I shoot most often.
tl;dr Learn from my mistakes: keep it simple & get more ammo.
non ff for me. i doubt i can out shoot the rifle as it is.
The part about the rifle is that they mostly are toys to have fun with ,what is needed and what we think we need are two separate things. Quality [BCM has that covered] is the most important thing on a rifle you need. The FF forearm is what you put on for the last bit of accuracy. A rail? What do you need to bolt on to the rail? My opinion Buy a basic BCM shoot it then shoot it some more.
thebarracuda
11-03-13, 13:50
Seriously, I wouldn't worry about free floating it unless you are making a dedicated long range rig. Can you outshoot your rifle as it is? Or will you use it in such a way that you are worried about placing stress on the barrel that can change the POI. Like shooting around obstacles? If not, i'd spend that cash on ammo. You'll enjoy a case of ammo more than that free float tube or rail. :D
WNY_Whitetailer
11-03-13, 14:04
You'll enjoy a case of ammo more than that free float tube or rail. :D
True and insightful. I vote no FF, buy more ammo.
Sent from my garbage truck using tapatalk.
I guess I am a free float fan. Kyle Lamb demonstrated the significant POI shifts by resting the barrel on a barricade. Is it needed? Not really. Same argument could be made for 30 round magazines, red dot sights, adjustable slings...If you're on a tight budget and can only afford a rifle and ammo don't get one. Otherwise, I see the value in a FF rail.
I started off with non ff. I built my ideal rifle with one after I shot enough to know what I. Needed. The biggest advantage of ff is that you can crank tight on ur sling for long shots and not pull the barrel. And rest it against barricades. And extend ur arm out where it out to be for close/mid range shots....
I suggest ff. buy once, cry once. Btw, bcm makes great stuff.
Can't one split the differance and have an FSB while still having a FF handguard? I could swear I've seen it done. That way no worry about the front sight moving when bearing down on the handguard...
Rascal
"You can never be too rich, too good looking, or too well armed"
gesundheit
11-03-13, 21:57
The biggest advantage of ff is that you can crank tight on ur sling for long shots and not pull the barrel.
And where is that sling attached to? Putting too much pulling force will move the barrel FF or no FF. FF is not a universal solution to everything that ails a rifle.
Can't one split the differance and have an FSB while still having a FF handguard? I could swear I've seen it done. That way no worry about the front sight moving when bearing down on the handguard...
Rascal
Absolutely, just not my first choice in rails and not the current flavor flav of the tubular variety...but there are a number of options:
Daniel Defense:
https://danieldefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/653x205/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/l/r/lrii_12fsp.jpg
Troy Industries:
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/SRAI-DVK-CXBT-00-2.jpg
patriot_man
11-03-13, 22:08
And where is that sling attached to? Putting too much pulling force will move the barrel FF or no FF. FF is not a universal solution to everything that ails a rifle.
What?
How would the force of the sling affect the POI shift if the barrel is free floated?
Are you suggesting that the sling is attached to the barrel because that would be plain stupid if you had a free floating handguard.
Archer1440
11-03-13, 22:40
With excessive sling loads even on a ff setup, you start putting forces into the receiver which may or may not impact POI.
My attitude about this question is that if you pay attention to the loads you're putting on the weapon, shooting at the equivalent of the -0 zones on an IDPA target at the max effective ranges of the 5.56 cartridge, and using improvised field positions, it makes little differences- and the cruel truth is, most people can't shoot to the capabilities of the platform in the field anyway.
In other words, the round is ineffective on real world targets at the distances where this matters the most.
Take your KISS rifle, buy lots of.ammo and go to a school or three.
One minute groups at 600-700 meters are fun and perhaps confidence building, but pretty much academic for terminal performance where the 5.56 is concerned (not that anyone would volunteer to take a round at that distance, mind you!)
FF is nice but not needed inside 300M if the rest of the package and the user are squared away. Get a good rifle, good ammo, and learn to use it.
mastiffhound
11-04-13, 00:42
If your goal is to hit a man sized target inside of 300m, an M4 type rifle with a non-floating handguard will do that all day long if you can. Shoot a kiss rifle until you are experienced enough to determine whether or not you need a floated tube.
Sound advice, I did this with my 20" AR. I just put a rail on it after 2 years of owning it. The accuracy is only one aspect, a rail will give you more options as far as mounting lights, optics, or other do-dads. Just don't go full-on mall ninja and you'll be ok. A light is a need, and someone here once said that without BUIS it's not a serious AR (sorry, I can't remember who to give the credit).
You attach the sling to the hand guard, of course
Free float. It poses zero (real) disadvantages. There are so many options out there, including plenty that don't require any dis-assembly of the weapon and plenty of less expensive examples.
Mounting things other than a sling and light should not be the only criteria. Most of the military mount lasers on NON-FF rails. Unless the alternative to buying a FF option is being able to provide for your family, I'd go the FF route.
Actually, with non ff, at 100yds there may be a noticeable difference if you put pressure on the gun while on a barricade... "Out in the field" or wherever you are... or if you tighten a sling up for support. Comparing poi impact of ff vs non ff while doing this are very noticeable. For hd you don't need free float... But do you know everything youll ever want to do with it?
Off a bench non ff will reach out real far. Start doing anything else and you'll be shopping for a tube.
Wolfhound86
12-26-13, 23:03
After 8 years I'm finally going free float. This thread helped me decide. Just ordered Omega 9.0 can't wait for it to arrive. The fact that it eliminates certain variables all together I think is the biggest advantage.
After 8 years I'm finally going free float. This thread helped me decide. Just ordered Omega 9.0 can't wait for it to arrive. The fact that it eliminates certain variables all together I think is the biggest advantage.
Got one 2 years ago. I will say that a FF will gain you acuracy(little though it will be), but the FF rails you will see are expensive. One of the most accurate uppers I used to have had an Omega on it.
Just save some money and go FF. Pick a good one(known track record and do your research) and start shooting. Correctly. Take a class, if this means that much to you. Then you will know...
Wolfhound86
12-29-13, 13:37
Got my Omega 9 yesterday and it's awesome worth every penny of the $280. Solid feel, and nice to know variables that could through off a long distance shot are now out of the equation. Wish I wouldn't have waited so long to go FF.
Got my Omega 9 yesterday and it's awesome worth every penny of the $280. Solid feel, and nice to know variables that could through off a long distance shot are now out of the equation. Wish I wouldn't have waited so long to go FF.
Good choice. Can't go wrong with the DD Omega! Would be nice to go FF on my duty weapon but we are not allowed to alter the factory set up per. policy (that needs to be rewritten).
quaesitor logica
12-29-13, 15:59
FF rails are pretty much just for real estate for my purposes. Magpul hand-guards with their versatile mounting system more than satisfies my needs for MUCH less coin in this area. The only reasons I run FF handguards nowadays is because:
A) I like utilizing adjustable gas blocks and my favorites are of the LP variety.
B) Longer range RECCE or SPR build.
C) They look bad-ass.
If reason A or B dont precede C I dont use a FF handguard.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.