View Full Version : OK M4C Brain Trust...Bitcon
What is this? Supposed to make PayPal and ilk a thing of the past. Has my well honed BS meter in full red, but not my area of expertise.
Can someone explain this so I can understand it?
"The supply of bitcoins is regulated by software and the agreement of users of the system and cannot be manipulated by any government, bank, organization or individual."
And we all know how governments tend to respond to that...
Bitcoin is an experimental, decentralized digital currency that enables instant payments to anyone, anywhere in the world. Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority: managing transactions and issuing money are carried out collectively by the network.
The original Bitcoin software by Satoshi Nakamoto was released under the MIT license. Most client software, derived or "from scratch", also use open source licensing.
Bitcoin is one of the first successful implementations of a distributed crypto-currency, described in part in 1998 by Wei Dai on the cypherpunks mailing list. Building upon the notion that money is any object, or any sort of record, accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context, Bitcoin is designed around the idea of using cryptography to control the creation and transfer of money, rather than relying on central authorities.
See:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
http://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works
Forbes on it:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/31/why-are-people-so-excited-about-a-bitcoin-atm/
and
http://rt.com/op-edge/us-bitcoin-technology-economist-978/
https://www.casascius.com/
I thought the feds already came in and shut this thing down. Am I wrong?
The_War_Wagon
10-31-13, 19:11
OK M4C Brain Trust...Bitcon
INTERESTING Freudian slip in your subject line, there... :haha:
ForTehNguyen
10-31-13, 19:29
Man buys $27 of bitcoin, forgets about them, finds they're now worth $886k (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home)
I thought the feds already came in and shut this thing down. Am I wrong?
They shutdown Silk Road, and seized bitcoins related to that site.
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JBecker 72
10-31-13, 19:52
Man buys $27 of bitcoin, forgets about them, finds they're now worth $886k (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home)
Your user name is very relevant to this post. :D
INTERESTING Freudian slip in your subject line, there... :haha:
Sure it was not intentional on my end? :D
Crow Hunter
11-01-13, 07:30
The problem with it is, just like any other currency, you must have someone willing to take it in exchange for something that you want.
Considering it doesn't have the "full faith and credit" of any type of government entity and it doesn't have any "intrinsic value" other than the rarity that is controlled by a computer algorithm, it is, in my opinion even more of a "fiat currency" than the US dollar.
If you dig down into it, it almost sounds like a Bernie Madoff scam. I am sure those that bought in early are really happy that others are buying more now.
There are also several "competing" crypto currencies that may have better control algorithms.
There are several interesting discussions of it over on Bogleheads. Most of them are over my head and one of my requirements for investing is that I only invest in things that I understand.
Eurodriver
11-01-13, 08:06
I wonder if 10,000 years ago some people were picking up some shiny yellow rocks and saying "Here, let's use this junk to trade with each other." and other guys were saying "No way dude. That's dumb. It's just laying around on the ground".
With the internet growing and growing, I wouldn't be surprised if things like this really make it big - at least until the big bankers realize they're not taking their cut and have the Feds shut it down.
montanadave
11-01-13, 08:18
I'm waiting to see (or have someone direct me to the appropriate information) how the IRS and other entities are going to track monies moving into and out of the bitcoin architecture. It's going to present some very interesting challenges to the established national and international financial regulatory agencies.
ForTehNguyen
11-01-13, 09:26
needs to be competition in our money. Cant let govts decide what is money. Let money compete and duke it out on the marketplace. Fiat currency would die quickly if things like gold/silver, Bitcoin were allowed to compete.
Love it when govt red herrings Bitcoin and says its for money laundering, drug deals, untraceable. Yea untraceable like cash huh?
Eurodriver
11-01-13, 11:25
Love it when govt red herrings Bitcoin and says its for money laundering, drug deals, untraceable. Yea untraceable like cash huh?
Well...uhh...with silk road it kinda was.
needs to be competition in our money. Cant let govts decide what is money. Let money compete and duke it out on the marketplace. Fiat currency would die quickly if things like gold/silver, Bitcoin were allowed to compete.
Love it when govt red herrings Bitcoin and says its for money laundering, drug deals, untraceable. Yea untraceable like cash huh?
Couldn't have said it any better.
I wonder if 10,000 years ago some people were picking up some shiny yellow rocks and saying "Here, let's use this junk to trade with each other." and other guys were saying "No way dude. That's dumb. It's just laying around on the ground".
With the internet growing and growing, I wouldn't be surprised if things like this really make it big - at least until the big bankers realize they're not taking their cut and have the Feds shut it down.
Already been done, it just hasn't been made illegal yet.
http://bitcoin.org/en/
Right now, today, Bitcoin works and cannot be controlled by govts. Govts hate this. Bitcoins can be seized by the govt but no more or less than they can seize your other physical assets. For the truly paranoid ( or criminal) you can maintain other anonymous Bitcoin "wallets". They did not seize Silk Road's wallet, they seized the public wallet of the guy why they thought owned Silk Road. In these cases he now has to prove a negative to the govt that all of his Bitcoins were legally obtained. It would be the same in a normal drug conspiracy arrest where cash and property was involved.
Bitcoins are only "minted" at a slow and constant rate which is more than you can say for the USD. However, if Bitcoins still freak you out then just buy gold at the moment.
http://bitcoincharts.com/
Currently, Bitcoins are trading around $200 USD. At that price 1/10th oz American Eagles look more attractive to me personally.
morbidbattlecry
11-02-13, 17:12
Basically people are engaging in high risk currency speculation. And when i say high risk i mean the very definition of high risk. The market is all over the place with fluctuations. Way more then what you see with the stock market. I'm certain the feds will step in soon to regulate or even ban it outright.
I like my "bitcoins" made of Au. Preferably in .5 oz denomination.
That is my advice for those currency speculators.
ForTehNguyen
11-02-13, 22:24
how would they regulate or ban it, Bitcoin has no centralization, no main server. That was the point of bitcoin
TacMedic556
11-02-13, 22:35
From my limited understanding each Bitcoin is/represents a Prime number. The easy ones were all quickly discovered and locked away. Now it takes servers, time and programs to, "mine" and somehow find large prime numbers.
The supply of the coins is fixed or limited to what like 20,000,000 units or something.
There are some very informative and interesting videos on it on youtube. Max Keiser has some interesting points regarding them.
Last year, governments around the world lashed out at bitcoins. I perceived the international anxiety related to this new currency as the banking/political cabals feeling threatened in their monoploy regarding the issuance of currency, debt and the markets.
Bitcoin is supposedly totally private, anonymous and liquid in its ability to move money/wealth. Interesting.
Today in the news there was an article on coinflation regarding bitcoin. An individual bought $27 in Bitcoins in 2009 and forgot he had them. Today they are worth $886,000. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home
I have a sense of doubt and skepticism regarding this new currency idea, however I like how it bucks the system, pisses off the elite and somehow challenges the moneymasters.
I simply find it amazing that people put any faith in a digital currency with no tangible physical equivalent. There is something deeply concerning about putting my money into a digital wallet with a company that has no physical presence and no regulators. If they close up shop tomorrow and walk away, your "money" is gone. I am not the type of person that puts much stock in having to hold my money in my hand, but the fact that it's possible to do so is very fundamentally important to me when it comes to currency. Judging by all of the people responding with comments about gold coin, I am not alone in that.
I simply find it amazing that people put any faith in a digital currency with no tangible physical equivalent. There is something deeply concerning about putting my money into a digital wallet with a company that has no physical presence and no regulators. If they close up shop tomorrow and walk away, your "money" is gone. I am not the type of person that puts much stock in having to hold my money in my hand, but the fact that it's possible to do so is very fundamentally important to me when it comes to currency. Judging by all of the people responding with comments about gold coin, I am not alone in that.
By all accounts the cash in your wallet at present is just as whimsical tho lol
But my wallet can't have its website shut down and have the owners simply walk away. It's fiat, but at least it can be tangible. I rarely use physical currency anyway, but it's nice to have the option there.
But my wallet can't have its website shut down and have the owners simply walk away. It's fiat, but at least it can be tangible. I rarely use physical currency anyway, but it's nice to have the option there.
Bitcoin has no owners, nobody controls it, that's kinda the point.
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The sites (digital wallets) where you keep your bitcoins have owners. You do not have the ability to keep them at home in your safe. If you keep them stored on your own computer using a software wallet you're liable to your own hardware failing.
Magic_Salad0892
11-03-13, 15:12
Bitcoin will either become the future, or be banned.
Eurodriver
11-03-13, 16:12
The sites (digital wallets) where you keep your bitcoins have owners. You do not have the ability to keep them at home in your safe. If you keep them stored on your own computer using a software wallet you're liable to your own hardware failing.
I understand your point, but if you look at the big picture the bank you store your money in doesn't really have your money either. They only have what? 3%? 5%? The rest has been payed as loans for cars, houses, etc.
If you store your physical money at home you're liable to fire and theft.
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