View Full Version : Shooting at LAX...
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/11/01/lapd-incident-reported-in-terminal-3-at-lax/#.UnPXW7FodZY.twitter
Post your media misinformation and speculation here.
A couple more of these and flying is gonna really suck!
"High powered rifle was used" means it was a pistol that was discharged....9mm Hi-point
somebody imitating COD2 airport scene....?
Moose-Knuckle
11-01-13, 12:31
Another "Gun Free Zone" shooting . . .
News wires reports LE swarming into LAX . . . further proof of how much of a joke the TSA is. Hopefully LAPD won't light up Tacoma drivers this go around.
Shit, really? Flying sucks already, now this. At least there seems to be a fast response and hope this resolves quickly and safely.
The president has been briefed...
Stand by for completely uninformed political statement from the White House.
Moose-Knuckle
11-01-13, 12:37
The president has been briefed...
Huh, I always took him for a boxer kind of guy.
Let's see which way the media twists this incident.
"It was a Youtube Video"...
A couple more of these and flying is gonna really suck!
Flying already sux and I purposefully use it as a last means of transport.
I'm surprised that so few people got hurt. Haven't been to LAX ever but everywhere else I have been forced to travel since the TSA cluster**** has been the same. Tightly packed cattle ready to be mowed down while waiting in line to go through security. Article mentions that the shooter may have been targeting TSA employees. Could we have the makings of yet another work place violence excuse??
Hope for a speedy recovery to those injured and a slow painful death for the shooter.
GeorgiaBoy
11-01-13, 12:54
The president has been briefed...
Surprised he didn't learn about it from watching the news. You know, like he learns most other things.
Total cluster f--k of all related airport activity. Diversion of aircraft to other airports. Traffic is going to be toast..witness says shooter was dressed in green-grey fatigues and using asssault rifle.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/11/01/lapd-incident-reported-in-terminal-3-at-lax/#.UnPXW7FodZY.twitter
Post your media misinformation and speculation here.
I'm guessing a work related beef vs random spree shooting. Sounds personal from what little info I read. Wouldn't surprise if it was a current or ex TSA worker.
Total cluster f--k of all related airport activity. Diversion of aircraft to other airports. Traffic is going to be toast..witness says shooter was dressed in green-grey fatigues and using asssault rifle.
Important to remember, media accounts are totally worthless at this time. Other than the location (hopefully) the report beyond is of no value any more it seems.
The media used to actually make some attempt to have their facts in some kind of order, usually with some confirmation from authorities, and such. Now, it's a total free for all.
High powered rifle was used? First shooting with a .338?
Grand58742
11-01-13, 13:11
Apparently it was an AR:
https://twitter.com/NewsBreaker
The description of suspect was from a passenger outside terminal 3 who said he was 20 ft away from shooter. Airport info is from local employees I know at LAX. I work at SAN
Hard to put any confidence in media reports this early on, but some news stations are starting to report one TSA agent is deceased and another wounded. Sad day.
Also seeing pictures of an AR-15 on the floor at the Airport with a mag lying next to it
Moose-Knuckle
11-01-13, 13:21
Live news feed and time line of events via LA Times . . .
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-live-lax-shooting-tsa-agent-alleged-gunman-shot-20131101,0,3517669.story#axzz2jPmMKFMv
If one guy can cause this much chaos just imgaine what a Kenya Mall/Mumbai group could do.
Flying already sux and I purposefully use it as a last means of transport.
I'm surprised that so few people got hurt. Haven't been to LAX ever but everywhere else I have been forced to travel since the TSA cluster**** has been the same. Tightly packed cattle ready to be mowed down while waiting in line to go through security. Article mentions that the shooter may have been targeting TSA employees. Could we have the makings of yet another work place violence excuse??
Hope for a speedy recovery to those injured and a slow painful death for the shooter.
This. And does"ass-salt"rifles make any one else cringe and grind thier teeth?
Listening and watching an ABC station in LA on the web, one of their commentators said that there is so much problems across the country with people bringing guns in their carry on to the TSA checkpoints. Let me point out the obvious that those are simply uninformed/unaware/forgetful people. None of those resulted in any shooting. Simply the TSA people find the guns, remove them from the bag and deal with the owner.
mikelowrey
11-01-13, 13:34
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYAQmDGCUAE6BGM.jpg:large
sandman99and9
11-01-13, 13:38
Fox is reporting 3 shot including the gunman. Looks like he was an ex-TSA agent ?
Went from a shotgun,to high powered rifle then assault rifle :rolleyes:
Also heard on the radio that 10 shots fired now some stations reporting 20+ from some person that did not see anything but knew exactly how many shots were fired ?
God I love the lamestream media when something happens, just rush out and spew any crap you hear so you can be 1st !!
S.M.
Yeah that looks like an AR.
Not good
mikelowrey
11-01-13, 13:41
Fox is reporting 3 shot including the gunman. Looks like he was an ex-TSA agent ?
S.M.
Yep, they also are stating the possibility of that person being recently "fired" from the TSA and decided to do this.
**** WillBrink had previously said this.
sandman99and9
11-01-13, 13:41
Yeah that looks like an AR.
Not good
But wait, are not all those evil guns banned in California ?? Shit, we need more strict gun laws to prevent that stuff.
S.M.
Yep, they also are stating the possibility of that person being recently "fired" from the TSA and decided to do this.
Thats the current rumor, and he's in custody. All 3 persons shot were TSA.
Again rumor mill...
Phillygunguy
11-01-13, 13:46
That really sucks, not to sound cold but Ive really become desensitized by all these recent shootings, which seems to be quite a bit since Obama took office, I might add. I wonder if the general public is too?
Yeah that looks like an AR.
Not good
The picture in its original size showed what looked like an AR. But I enlarged the picture and the gun looks like a Mini 14 with a TAPCO or Ramline or the old Choate conversion stock. Several other websites are also saying Mini 14 style rifle.
Grand58742
11-01-13, 13:48
The picture in its original size showed what looked like an AR. But I enlarged the picture and the gun looks like a Mini 14 with a TAPCO or Ramline or the old Choate conversion stock.
Won't matter. AR, AK, Mini-14, all evil because they go bang.
Yep, they also are stating the possibility of that person being recently "fired" from the TSA and decided to do this.
As I was saying:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1785379&postcount=14
Smelled like that from the early reports to me.
mikelowrey
11-01-13, 14:01
As I was saying:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1785379&postcount=14
Smelled like that from the early reports to me.
Yep, you are on point, going to update that post.
Voodoo_Man
11-01-13, 14:03
Evil banned guns shooting people?
Ban the Banned guns!
Showtime ! The LA politicians are holding a press conference patting each other on the back. No real news, just accolades being passed around.
mikelowrey
11-01-13, 14:11
Fox news are saying that other news companies are stating that the suspect in custody is currently dead. Fox news says they cannot confirm but that's what others are saying...
Also in Fox news you could see a person being taken in handcuffs but they haven't said if that person is or is related to the shooter.
HackerF15E
11-01-13, 14:45
Reporting other news outlets reports as news.
That's almost as annoying as those news shows where the commentator shows headlines and articles from the various newspapers.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-13, 15:17
How the frick did he get thru the checkpoint?? There should have been at least 1 armed LEO there???
LAX suspect alleged to be Paul Anthony Ciancia. Supposed to be from NJ.
boggyboy72
11-01-13, 16:08
Won't matter. AR, AK, Mini-14, all evil because they go bang.
I get what you're saying and I agree that some people won't care,but I think it won't look as bad in the news if it's a mini-14 and not an AR.
Just like with the Navy Yard shooting,if there's no "AR-15 ASSAULT RIFLE KILLING MACHINE" involved there's not as much of a story and it will go away faster.
Wow! They're becoming more efficient. This months shooting came on the 1st! I expected it to be mid month. The long legged mack daddy and his minions should be orgasmic about right now. More gun control talk in 3...2...1...
Moose-Knuckle
11-01-13, 16:22
Wow! They're becoming more efficient. This months shooting came on the 1st! I expected it to be mid month. The long legged mack daddy and his minions should be orgasmic about right now. More gun control talk in 3...2...1...
LOL, right on. They would be lucky if this guy looks a little whiter than George Zimmerman
SilverBullet432
11-01-13, 17:27
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYAQmDGCUAE6BGM.jpg:large
Is that a pmag? Arent those illegal in commifornia?
Is that a pmag? Arent those illegal in commifornia?
Don't bother trying to figure out if it was legal or not. You'll give yourself a headache. Our laws are so confusing here that even the douchebag politicians who wrote them don't FK'ing understand them.
Heavy Metal
11-01-13, 18:43
That looks like an old-school Choate stock.
I bet that is an old Mini-14. Mag may be a Ramline or Eagle.
SilverBullet432
11-01-13, 18:53
whatever it is, thats a 30 round mag for sure...
gunrunner505
11-01-13, 18:56
So the little gun free zone sign failed to deter an asshat bent on committing crime? Say it ain't so.
A possible saving grace was this guy appears to be a former federal employee, their vetting process is air tight, no way a bad apple can slip through.
Might just fade away like Dorner.
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.46caliber
11-01-13, 19:51
Thank God for bullet buttons.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Live news feed and time line of events via LA Times . . .
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-live-lax-shooting-tsa-agent-alleged-gunman-shot-20131101,0,3517669.story#axzz2jPmMKFMv
If one guy can cause this much chaos just imgaine what a Kenya Mall/Mumbai group could do.
"Something like that would never happen here"...
HackerF15E
11-01-13, 22:11
Definitely an AR based on the photo shown on the news tonight.
BoringGuy45
11-01-13, 22:41
The usual suspects will flap their gums for about 5 minutes then everything will be business as usual. Not enough blood to bathe in, plus good guys with guns ended the situation rather quickly.
boggyboy72
11-01-13, 23:33
I'm guessing a work related beef vs random spree shooting. Sounds personal from what little info I read. Wouldn't surprise if it was a current or ex TSA worker.
Starting to look like he was there for TSA agents and gave other folks a pass.
"I was cowering in a corner, he looked at me and he said, 'TSA?' I shook my head no, and he kept on going," Saryan told ABC News
TSA says he didn't work for them,but there's a Paul Ciancia from LA on FB that claims to work for the TSA.
http://news.yahoo.com/lax-shooting-survivor-looked-down-barrel-gun-003027238--abc-news-topstories.html
Starting to look like he was there for TSA agents and gave other folks a pass.
"I was cowering in a corner, he looked at me and he said, 'TSA?' I shook my head no, and he kept on going," Saryan told ABC News
TSA says he didn't work for them,but there's a Paul Ciancia from LA on FB that claims to work for the TSA.
http://news.yahoo.com/lax-shooting-survivor-looked-down-barrel-gun-003027238--abc-news-topstories.html
I can tell you for a fact that he isn't listed anywhere within the Dept. of Homeland Security distro list, so he can't be an active TSA employee. Current reports peg him as a quiet, awkward loner with an anti-government and anti-TSA note in his possession at the time. Apparently the family had notified LA law enforcement that he may have been suicidal prior to the attack.
CNN just said he was targeting TSA agents.
What is more scary is what if 95% of the country and homes were gun free, then this stuff could happen on a mass scale with no resistance.
I do not believe for one second, that it could not happen here.
That looks like an old-school Choate stock.
I bet that is an old Mini-14. Mag may be a Ramline or Eagle.
I thought it was a mini too but I saw a better picture later and its absolutely an AR. Unless the news staged a pic on similar carpet :-P
How the frick did he get thru the checkpoint?? There should have been at least 1 armed LEO there???
Determination, virtually any kind of weapon and the willingness to use it.
This entire incident dramatically illustrates the folly of CA "gun bans", the actual security level provided by TSA and a host of other "feel good" regulations and laws that actually do virtually nothing to prevent any of the things they were passed to prevent.
They actually got off really, really light.
boggyboy72
11-02-13, 01:16
I can tell you for a fact that he isn't listed anywhere within the Dept. of Homeland Security distro list, so he can't be an active TSA employee. Current reports peg him as a quiet, awkward loner with an anti-government and anti-TSA note in his possession at the time. Apparently the family had notified LA law enforcement that he may have been suicidal prior to the attack.
Fair enough.
I just looked the name up to see if he had a FB page and if there was anything "crazy" on it.
When I looked at the FB page again I saw that it says "worked at TSA" not "works at TSA".
I guess if it's the same guy we'll know before too long.
Fair enough.
I just looked the name up to see if he had a FB page and if there was anything "crazy" on it.
When I looked at the FB page again I saw that it says "worked at TSA" not "works at TSA".
I guess if it's the same guy we'll know before too long.
Thats a just created, 9 hours ago, FB profile...not his picture..Some goofball thought he'd be cool making a fake page.
boggyboy72
11-02-13, 01:47
Thats a just created, 9 hours ago, FB profile...not his picture..Some goofball thought he'd be cool making a fake page.
Damn,I didn't even see that.
I hardly get on FB,but I should have caught that it was only 9 hours old.
OK,I admit it.I got suckered.
Sorry.
Starting to look like he was there for TSA agents and gave other folks a pass.
"I was cowering in a corner, he looked at me and he said, 'TSA?' I shook my head no, and he kept on going," Saryan told ABC News
TSA says he didn't work for them,but there's a Paul Ciancia from LA on FB that claims to work for the TSA.
http://news.yahoo.com/lax-shooting-survivor-looked-down-barrel-gun-003027238--abc-news-topstories.html
If this turns out to be true, as sad as the whole situation is, atleast he did not go after bystanders. I can never understand why it is the dipshits who have beef with a Government (in any country) almost always attack innocents. I mean, I know it is because they are chickenshits and want to attack the softest target they can. I am not saying what he did was ok, but if someone is going to do one of these acts, go to the source of your hate, not a damn movie, school, or mall. Go pick a fight with LE and leave the innocents out of it.
TacticalSledgehammer
11-02-13, 05:09
Damn,I didn't even see that.
I hardly get on FB,but I should have caught that it was only 9 hours old.
OK,I admit it.I got suckered.
Sorry.
People are very lame. lol. I would have probably missed it too.
Eurodriver
11-02-13, 05:58
Go pick a fight with LE and leave the innocents out of it.
Agreed. It makes no sense to hate LE and big gov't and then go murk a bunch of school kids.
I've always wondered why they don't just go after PD or politicians.
Now I get it. They're cowards and they know they might get a shot or two off before the LEO (or a body guard) responds.
Inkslinger
11-02-13, 10:12
Not looking good.
From AP,
"The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the note referred to how the gunman believed his constitutional rights were being violated by TSA searches and that he was a "pissed-off patriot" upset at former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano."
"The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the note referred to how the gunman believed his constitutional rights were being violated by TSA searches and that he was a "pissed-off patriot" upset at former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano."
This isn't the last time we'll be seeing this... There are a lot of very angry people who are approaching the tipping point.
Agreed. It makes no sense to hate LE and big gov't and then go murk a bunch of school kids.
I've always wondered why they don't just go after PD or politicians.
Now I get it. They're cowards and they know they might get a shot or two off before the LEO (or a body guard) responds.
But that's the main issue: they are not rational people and attempting to make sense if their decisions and actions is a waste of time, unless you're a criminal psychologist and such where that info may actually help prevent such things.
What will be missed/ignored from this event is:
It shows very well what happens when armed people are near by and able to respond quickly with return gun fire. He had the tool and the large group of people needed (like a school, mall etc) to do a lot of damage.
The only real difference here is, there were armed people close by who put his ass down once he started.
The clueless anti gun types will of course interpret that as: more gun control needed as to prevent him from getting his hands on the gun to begin with.
Those with a working brain, will see it for what it was: proof of a rapid armed response GREATLY reduces the death toll and BGs and crazies will find guns or other tools to kill people with.
It also brings up another issue of armed resistance by whom (LE, civi, etc) which is another topic of discussion.
EG, we all, with the working brains know, one can't have armed LE everywhere, nor does the person with a working brain desire that for obvious reasons.
Fox is reporting 3 shot including the gunman. Looks like he was an ex-TSA agent ?
Went from a shotgun,to high powered rifle then assault rifle :rolleyes:
Also heard on the radio that 10 shots fired now some stations reporting 20+ from some person that did not see anything but knew exactly how many shots were fired ?
God I love the lamestream media when something happens, just rush out and spew any crap you hear so you can be 1st !!
S.M.
Most of the people absolutely believe what the media spews out with out thought.
Not looking good.
From AP,
"The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the note referred to how the gunman believed his constitutional rights were being violated by TSA searches and that he was a "pissed-off patriot" upset at former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano."
Holy shit this is the best story yet! "Pissed off Patriot"! Theyre really streamlining this their efforts with this business. Can you imagine the support the antis will receive by labeling this guy a "Pissed off Patriot"? Brilliant! LMFAO!
Inkslinger
11-02-13, 12:24
Also from the same article,
"Just a few weeks ago, airport police and the Los Angeles Police Department had jointly trained for a similar shooting scenario, according to Gannon, who said officers told him the drill was critical in preparing them for the real thing."
Coincidence or do these type of drills happen often?
One TSA agent killed, another in critical condition, and three others with minor wounds. Tragic day, but could have been far worse.
Not looking good.
From AP,
"The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the note referred to how the gunman believed his constitutional rights were being violated by TSA searches and that he was a "pissed-off patriot" upset at former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano."
Yeah, when "pissed off patriots" start to kill as many people as 60s radicals I'll think about getting worried. As someone said we are at the tipping point and people in power are still poking the bear.
Eurodriver
11-02-13, 13:20
Yeah, when "pissed off patriots" start to kill as many people as 60s radicals I'll think about getting worried. As someone said we are at the tipping point and people in power are still poking the bear.
when <1% of the population wants to bring about serious social changes they attempt to achieve this with tactics such as terrorism, murder, and other violence against innocents.
You won't see many Vets blowing up shopping malls or shooting up school buses. The political right in this country still debates each other on "taking the high ground" with regards to political attack ads on television, even though it has been costing the right votes for years.
All this talk of "poking the bear" is nonsense. Gun owners aren't a bear. We are a pig - and we've been skewerd on the fire for decades now.
Also from the same article,
"Just a few weeks ago, airport police and the Los Angeles Police Department had jointly trained for a similar shooting scenario, according to Gannon, who said officers told him the drill was critical in preparing them for the real thing."
Coincidence or do these type of drills happen often?
They are not uncommon. Just sporadic due to cost. we just haf one a few weeks ago here in the NYC area.
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Inkslinger
11-02-13, 14:00
One of the things that bothers me in situations like this is, " The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity." How many times have we seen these "statements" be completely false. They get information out there that pushes their agenda and later if its proven not to be true, oh well.
Holy shit this is the best story yet! "Pissed off Patriot"! Theyre really streamlining this their efforts with this business. Can you imagine the support the antis will receive by labeling this guy a "Pissed off Patriot"? Brilliant! LMFAO!
I have a hard time believing these "Random Shootings" are as random as they claim them to be. Every time the gov't wants to ban something, there's an unusually high number of these type of instances. This crap will continue until they pass legislation (or until the libs get voted out), & then magically, these events will cease. Funny how that works. The "Pissed off Patriot" title makes the libs cream themselves & they hope the people riding the fence will see conservatives in a negative light. The fact that being a Patriot or being patriotic is a negative thing nowadays is a clue to where this country is headed. Meanwhile this administration is pointing fingers & telling the world "Look at these Patriotic Americans with their guns! Look what they're doing to your communities!"
Voodoo_Man
11-02-13, 16:29
Also from the same article,
"Just a few weeks ago, airport police and the Los Angeles Police Department had jointly trained for a similar shooting scenario, according to Gannon, who said officers told him the drill was critical in preparing them for the real thing."
Coincidence or do these type of drills happen often?
The more often this type of stuff happens, the more often they tend to do training on it.
Inkslinger
11-02-13, 17:24
That makes perfect sense. How many times has this happened though? People have no problem calling critical thinkers "tinfoilers", but can you blame us?
We have these random acts of violence and terror that correspond with training for the exact action. When these incidents play into line with the agenda the enemies of liberty are trying to push it makes it all the more suspicious.
The more often this type of stuff happens, the more often they tend to do training on it.
MountainRaven
11-02-13, 17:26
I have a hard time believing these "Random Shootings" are as random as they claim them to be. Every time the gov't wants to ban something, there's an unusually high number of these type of instances. This crap will continue until they pass legislation (or until the libs get voted out), & then magically, these events will cease. Funny how that works. The "Pissed off Patriot" title makes the libs cream themselves & they hope the people riding the fence will see conservatives in a negative light. The fact that being a Patriot or being patriotic is a negative thing nowadays is a clue to where this country is headed. Meanwhile this administration is pointing fingers & telling the world "Look at these Patriotic Americans with their guns! Look what they're doing to your communities!"
I don't think there are that many of these instances and probably no more than usual. It's just that when something is being pushed in the news, it means the news is going to look for things like it.
In any case, if these are part of some violent left-wing conspiracy, I doubt they'd stop when legislation gets passed or when politicians friendly to the cause lose power. Unless they come to the determination that they are ineffective, they would continue to strike again and again. They might even strike more often under a conservative government, because it undermines the conservative government's argument that gun control doesn't make you safer. Basic insurgent strategy from Patraeus's COIN manual: Undermine the legitimacy of the government in power by whatever means necessary.
On the contrary, every one of these attacks undermines the basic tenants of the arguments made by the gun grabbers. They always happen in gun-free zones, in places where the guns used are not legal to possess, by people who are nuttier than fruitcake. To promote the gun grabbers' agenda, these would need to be intricately-planned high casualty mass shootings perpetrated by normal people in places where guns are not only allowed but expected.
The conspiracy would, therefore (if I were running it), need two teams of individuals who are preferably military SOF veterans, preferably instructed and vetted by stalwarts of the shooting industry (like Vickers, Haley, &c.), armed with unregistered SBRs (made by buying an AR lower and attaching an SBR upper to it) and registered machine guns and suppressors and thousands of rounds of ammunition, and engaging in low-intensity urban conflict with the FBI, CIA, and/or a major police department in a city known for being very liberal (say, New York or San Francisco or LA or even Washington, DC). Have the first team go hot and issue proclamations and ultimatums to the media couched in terms of Christian faith, the US Constitution, isolationism and righteous anger at Obama, Congress, Bloomberg, Soros, homosexual marriage, &c. Simmer until done.
One-hundred days later, Congress will have banned NFA firearms nationally, banned magazines holding more than ten rounds, banned "assault" weapons, repealed FOPA, enacted mandatory firearm registration and minimum waiting periods on firearm (and ammunition and firearm and ammunition components), banned person-to-person sales of firearms, and passed stringent laws regarding the purchase and possession of firearms and firearms parts and components and ammunition and ammunition components (including import bans and bans on all ammunition containing lead, plus a hefty tax on all ammunition and firearms purchases, plus all purchases of parts and ammunition being federally recorded). Add expanded powers to the NSA and CIA to operate domestically, vastly increasing the powers of the FISA courts….
At this point, your second team is caught while attempting to go around the legislation you just passed (by the NSA and CIA's newly expanded domestic spying powers) and is wiped out "while resisting arrest". And everybody pats themselves on the back for such a great job they did and thank God nobody has to worry about any of those yahoos any more.
Then you will have gun owners unrelated to the conspiracy who will begin to resist, but everyone will already have been conditioned to think of them as terrorists and bad guys and will see their apprehension, trials, and sentences (and long jail terms) as being proof that the police state is working and working well to keep them safe. Any future successful attacks will be written off as freak accidents rather than a co-ordinated effort by one half of the political spectrum to push their agenda on the country by force of arms.
In other words, if these attacks are being perpetrated by a vast left-wing conspiracy, the conspirators are being very, very stupid. And probably would have been caught by now.
But as in both cases, when <1% of the population wants to bring about serious social changes they attempt to achieve this with tactics such as terrorism, murder, and other violence against innocents.
You won't see many Vets blowing up shopping malls or shooting up school buses. The political right in this country still debates each other on "taking the high ground" with regards to political attack ads on television, even though it has been costing the right votes for years.
All this talk of "poking the bear" is nonsense. Gun owners aren't a bear. We are a pig - and we've been skewerd on the fire for decades now.
There is some truth to that. Perhaps it would be better stated that those in power keep ****ing the pig.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-02-13, 21:52
Planned or unplanned, they are trying to lump anyone that favors restrictions on govt as a soon-to-explode gun-nut.
Yes, the TSA, NSA, IRS have too much power and trample on our rights. Shooting them isn't the answer, though progressives want it to seem that is all anyone right of Alinsky thinks of. Kind of proggessive projection if you ask me...
Planned or unplanned, they are trying to lump anyone that favors restrictions on govt as a soon-to-explode gun-nut.
Yes, the TSA, NSA, IRS have too much power and trample on our rights. Shooting them isn't the answer, though progressives want it to seem that is all anyone right of Alinsky thinks of. Kind of proggessive projection if you ask me...
Just in case it wasn't absolutely clear, I do not in any way condone shooting "bottom feeder" employees of the TSA who have zero control over how things are or will be done and are for the most part people lucky enough to have jobs who probably hate their boss too.
I'm just saying they are lucky they were dealing with a guy being driven by emotion and not somebody with a larger plan who thought it out completely.
I don't think there are that many of these instances and probably no more than usual. It's just that when something is being pushed in the news, it means the news is going to look for things like it.
Bingo!
"Mass" shootings are hot right now- especially with any "high power a-salt weapon". So they immediately bump it to front page national news. But apparently the sensationalism of olden days has returned full force.
In any case, if these are part of some violent left-wing conspiracy, I doubt they'd stop when legislation gets passed or when politicians friendly to the cause lose power. Unless they come to the determination that they are ineffective, they would continue to strike again and again. They might even strike more often under a conservative government, because it undermines the conservative government's argument that gun control doesn't make you safer. Basic insurgent strategy from Patraeus's COIN manual: Undermine the legitimacy of the government in power by whatever means necessary.
On the contrary, every one of these attacks undermines the basic tenants of the arguments made by the gun grabbers. They always happen in gun-free zones, in places where the guns used are not legal to possess, by people who are nuttier than fruitcake. To promote the gun grabbers' agenda, these would need to be intricately-planned high casualty mass shootings perpetrated by normal people in places where guns are not only allowed but expected.
The conspiracy would, therefore (if I were running it), need two teams of individuals who are preferably military SOF veterans, preferably instructed and vetted by stalwarts of the shooting industry (like Vickers, Haley, &c.), armed with unregistered SBRs (made by buying an AR lower and attaching an SBR upper to it) and registered machine guns and suppressors and thousands of rounds of ammunition, and engaging in low-intensity urban conflict with the FBI, CIA, and/or a major police department in a city known for being very liberal (say, New York or San Francisco or LA or even Washington, DC). Have the first team go hot and issue proclamations and ultimatums to the media couched in terms of Christian faith, the US Constitution, isolationism and righteous anger at Obama, Congress, Bloomberg, Soros, homosexual marriage, &c. Simmer until done.
One-hundred days later, Congress will have banned NFA firearms nationally, banned magazines holding more than ten rounds, banned "assault" weapons, repealed FOPA, enacted mandatory firearm registration and minimum waiting periods on firearm (and ammunition and firearm and ammunition components), banned person-to-person sales of firearms, and passed stringent laws regarding the purchase and possession of firearms and firearms parts and components and ammunition and ammunition components (including import bans and bans on all ammunition containing lead, plus a hefty tax on all ammunition and firearms purchases, plus all purchases of parts and ammunition being federally recorded). Add expanded powers to the NSA and CIA to operate domestically, vastly increasing the powers of the FISA courts….
At this point, your second team is caught while attempting to go around the legislation you just passed (by the NSA and CIA's newly expanded domestic spying powers) and is wiped out "while resisting arrest". And everybody pats themselves on the back for such a great job they did and thank God nobody has to worry about any of those yahoos any more.
Then you will have gun owners unrelated to the conspiracy who will begin to resist, but everyone will already have been conditioned to think of them as terrorists and bad guys and will see their apprehension, trials, and sentences (and long jail terms) as being proof that the police state is working and working well to keep them safe. Any future successful attacks will be written off as freak accidents rather than a co-ordinated effort by one half of the political spectrum to push their agenda on the country by force of arms.
In other words, if these attacks are being perpetrated by a vast left-wing conspiracy, the conspirators are being very, very stupid. And probably would have been caught by now.
Damn dude, have you read my mind?
This or an E:F&D #1 black flag would be my bets if they ever got serious about going full commietard.
I've always said it- someday something will happen- planned or not- that will change peeople's minds irreversibly to think and see everything after that event in a certain way favorable to the agendas of TPTB, and then it will just be all downhill from there.
Current events, like this most recent shooting, are just conditioning- getting the buzzwords into people's heads.
Reality is this can happen anywhere..car wash, traffic jam, church, ballgame, casino,.. and crazy 20 something guys love the most popular weapons. Some of them could possibly be on this forum with all the new guys in the last year or so. This is the internet. Google M4 rifle and this website is in the top 5 choices
Also from the same article,
"Just a few weeks ago, airport police and the Los Angeles Police Department had jointly trained for a similar shooting scenario, according to Gannon, who said officers told him the drill was critical in preparing them for the real thing."
Coincidence or do these type of drills happen often?
I'd be surprised if police at a major international airport were not frequently training for an active shooter situation. Responding to such situations is near the top of their job description.
This picture was posted on NY Post supposedly of the shooter after police engaged him. Maybe it's just me, but the picture looks fake.18713
Reality is this can happen anywhere..car wash, traffic jam, church, ballgame, casino,.. and crazy 20 something guys love the most popular weapons. Some of them could possibly be on this forum with all the new guys in the last year or so. This is the internet. Google M4 rifle and this website is in the top 5 choices
This is a very good reason for being careful about what you post.
So first we give Chi-mo's jobs, now they want to give them guns after this.....:rolleyes:
I'm calling it....FF. Its just amazing (insert extreme sarcasm) how quickly everyone comes out of the woodwork so quickly to suggest taking guns away from citizens and giving them to the toilet safety association.. (the media that is).
My bottom line opinion is, just like most convenient "terror/mass shooting" events, this guy was either a "windup toy" or its a full on FF.
I mean let me guess, there was some sort of drill going on close by right?
Phillygunguy
11-03-13, 12:14
I have a hard time believing these "Random Shootings" are as random as they claim them to be. Every time the gov't wants to ban something, there's an unusually high number of these type of instances. This crap will continue until they pass legislation (or until the libs get voted out), & then magically, these events will cease. Funny how that works. The "Pissed off Patriot" title makes the libs cream themselves & they hope the people riding the fence will see conservatives in a negative light. The fact that being a Patriot or being patriotic is a negative thing nowadays is a clue to where this country is headed. Meanwhile this administration is pointing fingers & telling the world "Look at these Patriotic Americans with their guns! Look what they're doing to your communities!"
I agree 100% call me Tin foil hat or whatever there is something going on The left didn't get their gun ban this year so we have these "mass shootings" almost every month. Someone needs to investigate this or a whistle blower needs to come forward
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-03-13, 12:39
It's all what the press wants to cover. That is why even if the press is 'neutral' in their reporting, it isn't so much how they cover it, it is what they cover.
Summer is ending and the gangland shootings usually slow down, but they could be talking about the epidemic of inner city crime, but instead they cover these AS situations more than the gang crime. If they wanted to push child abductions, they could have the nightly news filled with that.
How they cover it also factors in. Almost of these AS could be viewed thru the failure of mental health care, but instead they focus on guns and any kind of right wing associations (remember the Aurora shooter was a T-party guy till they got irrefutable evidence to the contrary).
Lord knows that they could be talking about the poor state of the economy or the dismal prospects for recent college grads.
Red, false, black- heck you don't need a flag, just a press that is lazy and likes impactful visuals. Piers Morgan was able to find a HOT eyewitness that said that now is the perfect time to talk about gun restrictions.
Did that guy barf up his liver? I thought he was in black or camo?? You are going to go out in a blaze of glory and you wear a JC Penny stripped shirt and Khakis? If the pic is legit, they bumped up the red for the blood. Look how muted everything else is in the pic and how vibrant the blood is.
Mo_Zam_Beek
11-03-13, 12:49
Thought he was wearing a camo ensemble to the soirée? Pooled blood looks a little FX as well....
http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/shoot-pic-3.jpg
MountainRaven
11-03-13, 12:58
This is a very good reason for being careful about what you post.
Just remember that by making information harder to access, you make it harder for the good guys (first responders, LEOs, military, armed/concerned citizens) to get, too.
BoringGuy45
11-03-13, 20:52
The thing is that not enough people seem to be paying attention to the warning signs of these shooters. In terms of their personalities, they almost seem to come off of an assembly line: In VT, Arizona, Aurora, Sandy Hook, the Navy Yard, and LAX, the shooters were ALL described as loners who were often angry and mean. They hostilely rebuffed almost all attempts to reach out to them. They were obsessed with violent games and movies, they often made violent threats, wrote violent poems, plays, letters, songs, or made videos with disturbing images. Many had violent behavior in the past. Many had radical political views, either on the right or left. Whenever these shootings happen, it seems like there's very little surprise once they find out who did it. It's never a guy with a lot of friends who was happy and friendly. It's not even a quiet but friendly person. It's always a hostile loner who creeped everyone out.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-03-13, 21:30
I have to think that none of them have been on sites like these, or very active on them if they were. The media would jump all over that and show the posts if it were true, I'd have to think. I would think some LEO would spill that to the press as they scan the guys computers.
This picture was posted on NY Post supposedly of the shooter after police engaged him. Maybe it's just me, but the picture looks fake.
Carpet looks right and hooked up per SOP regardless of his condition.
Blood crazy colored to me but I always worked nights when I used to see this stuff regularly. Or a flash.
This whole thing seems more fake than Anna Nicole Smith's boobs.
Just remember that by making information harder to access, you make it harder for the good guys (first responders, LEOs, military, armed/concerned citizens) to get, too.
Fwiw I like how lightfighter controls their membership screening.
Just throwing that out there. :p
I have to think that none of them have been on sites like these, or very active on them if they were. The media would jump all over that and show the posts if it were true, I'd have to think. I would think some LEO would spill that to the press as they scan the guys computers.
Agree.... I think that people try to credit these nut cases with too much rational thinking.
My question is why all these rabid dogs all of a sudden? Is it simply a byproduct of our expanding/changing society? Expected percentages?
I just can not believe that these nut cases are coming to forums like this. Comic books, late night radio, video games, media sound bites, maybe...... but rational research that offers very little if any insight into committing a crime?... I just don't see that as part of their world.
Why haven't we heard from the "investigation" about the trace on this AR? Hell we had everything we could ever want to know about the Navy Yard murderers shotgun and ammo in what, 2 days?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-04-13, 09:37
How did they get the magazine out with out a bullet button?? I have to say that CA gun laws make Obama-care seem easy to understand.
The perp in the pic looks like Kip form 'Napoleon Dynamite'.
I audibly expressed amusement at the Kip comparison.
As for the blood, I've seen a lot of bright, frothy blood from lung hits before. It's all dependent on how oxygenated the blood is as to the color before it congeals and dries.
As to the rest, it's just too early to MMQB it all. :(
The perp in the pic looks like Kip form 'Napoleon Dynamite'.
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/bbossman1/Kip_Dynamite_zpsc7897adf.jpg
While I'm no forensic scientist, and I can't prove this or any of the other "Mass Shootings" are staged, but this crap seems too convenient. Yes I know the media covers what they choose to, but they are also the voice of this corrupt administration. They are essentially Obama's microphone. The anti-2A agenda is being shoved down the American public's throats by both. In the end, it doesn't matter what you choose to believe as the cause of these events, what matters is with every one, more people are supporting gun control. Not in our little circle, but the gullible voting masses.
Eurodriver
11-04-13, 11:18
I find it interesting that someone carries a 5.56mm semi auto rifle into an elementary school where no one nearby has a firearm and kills 20.
But when a similar person carries a similar weapon into an airport with armed security, he only manages to kill one person.
Is that not making the NRA's claim valid or what?
I find it interesting that someone carries a 5.56mm semi auto rifle into an elementary school where no one nearby has a firearm and kills 20.
But when a similar person carries a similar weapon into an airport with armed security, he only manages to kill one person.
Is that not making the NRA's claim valid or what?
Excellent Point!
While I'm no forensic scientist, and I can't prove this or any of the other "Mass Shootings" are staged, but this crap seems too convenient. Yes I know the media covers what they choose to, but they are also the voice of this corrupt administration. They are essentially Obama's microphone. The anti-2A agenda is being shoved down the American public's throats by both. In the end, it doesn't matter what you choose to believe as the cause of these events, what matters is with every one, more people are supporting gun control. Not in our little circle, but the gullible voting masses.
I still don't know what that means when I read it:
• He/they are part of a secret gubment group who are willing to go kill people in that manner, and in the process, either get killed or spend forever in jail without ever talking? NSA, CIA, FEMA? Other?
• He/they are grabbed off the st, sent to a secret location, where they are drugged and brain washed into doing the above scenario and after they do it (if they live) they have no recollection of it?
• Various mind altering frequencies beamed into their home that slowly convinces them they need to go kill people in large numbers which coincides with a current admins goals? Something along the lines of HAARP? Other?
I try to keep an open mind, but not so open my brain falls out. I'm never clear what exactly that means in these cases. I also think human beings are far more comfortable with convincing themselves of secret shady black bag malevolent forces at work, than dealing with a more scary unsettling reality that there's just a lot of fu%$ed up people in this world and random stuff happens for which we have no control over at the end of the day.
Human being like (need!) things to make sense for them. When they don't, it causes anxiety and fear to realize there's often (but not always) no reason at all for X horrible thing to happen beyond the sociopathic mind that did it.
And so, we make associations and correlations that don't exist which fills in the most scary dark thing of them all to us.
Excellent Point!
Like I said:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1786007&postcount=65
The reality of the event - a quick armed response is what made the difference - will be ignored.
Eurodriver
11-04-13, 17:19
Like I said:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1786007&postcount=65
The reality of the event - a quick armed response is what made the difference - will be ignored.
Sorry I missed that Will.
I actually haven't heard any talk about these (even among conservatives) which is surprising, since it's so easy to point out.
I still don't know what that means when I read it:
• He/they are part of a secret gubment group who are willing to go kill people in that manner, and in the process, either get killed or spend forever in jail without ever talking? NSA, CIA, FEMA? Other?
• He/they are grabbed off the st, sent to a secret location, where they are drugged and brain washed into doing the above scenario and after they do it (if they live) they have no recollection of it?
• Various mind altering frequencies beamed into their home that slowly convinces them they need to go kill people in large numbers which coincides with a current admins goals? Something along the lines of HAARP? Other?
I try to keep an open mind, but not so open my brain falls out. I'm never clear what exactly that means in these cases. I also think human beings are far more comfortable with convincing themselves of secret shady black bag malevolent forces at work, than dealing with a more scary unsettling reality that there's just a lot of fu%$ed up people in this world and random stuff happens for which we have no control over at the end of the day.
Human being like (need!) things to make sense for them. When they don't, it causes anxiety and fear to realize there's often (but not always) no reason at all for X horrible thing to happen beyond the sociopathic mind that did it.
And so, we make associations and correlations that don't exist which fills in the most scary dark thing of them all to us.
You're right. I'm looking too far into this. Our gov't is honest & never gets involved in shady business to further an agenda. Maybe this guy was just pissed because Starbucks spelled his name wrong on his cup?
You're right. I'm looking too far into this. Our gov't is honest & never gets involved in shady business to further an agenda.
No one claimed that, but you didn't answer the Q. By what method would they use in such a scenario?
Maybe this guy was just pissed because Starbucks spelled his name wrong on his cup?
Asking a Q with a Q, does not bode well for support of a position.
Answer: I have no idea, but maybe it's exactly as it appears? You know, Occam's razor and all that. I know, it's less interesting and dramatic.
Sorry I missed that Will.
I actually haven't heard any talk about these (even among conservatives) which is surprising, since it's so easy to point out.
Pro gun/pro 2A/Pro Liberty types should be pointing that out at every op.
Yes, we all know the anti gun types will back peddle to their usual intellectually bankrupt position about it being different because they were LE, etc, etc, but that's to be expected. :rolleyes:
No one claimed that, but you didn't answer the Q. By what method would they use in such a scenario?
Asking a Q with a Q, does not bode well for support of a position.
Answer: I have no idea, but maybe it's exactly as it appears? You know, Occam's razor and all that. I know, it's less interesting and dramatic.
Just messin' with you friend. In the big picture, my position doesn't mean shit & neither does anyone's support of it or otherwise. I do know that our gov't is not trustworthy. I don't recall this many events leading to the support of any agenda under any other president in my lifetime. Many of their stories I don't believe (I won't get into that). To each their own. It doesn't matter what any of us believe. It amounts to nothing. I'm not a conspiracy nut & don't dwell on this stuff. But every month I expect there to be a "Mass Shooting" somewhere in the country & every time there is, I'm not surprised even a little.
Not to sound insensitive, but who wants to make a wager on next months event? Where will it be? What brand of AR rifle will be used? They've already covered churches, shopping malls, schools, movie theatres, now airports. Bingo hall next? Hospital? County Fair? Concert?
Just remember that by making information harder to access, you make it harder for the good guys (first responders, LEOs, military, armed/concerned citizens) to get, too.
Speaking generally about equipment, tactics, training and procedures is not an issue. Covering in depth material concerning fighting techniques, clearing spaces of threats and other specifics can be learned from attending training. If you have a legitimate need and are working in a position that requires that need be addressed, there are avenues outside of a public forum where the information can be disseminated.
Discussing information on an open access forum that can be used to attack the general populace and to train to resist first responders should be avoided.
Some training courses are offered by invitation only for good reason. The briefing at the beginning of a course that covers material far beyond the basics should touch on how and when the presented material should be used.
Many will disagree with my point of view, but I take comfort in knowing that someone who would misuse the information will get nothing from me or anyone I have taught courses with over the years.
This is the internet; everyone is watching.
Speaking generally about equipment, tactics, training and procedures is not an issue. Covering in depth material concerning fighting techniques, clearing spaces of threats and other specifics can be learned from attending training. If you have a legitimate need and are working in a position that requires that need be addressed, there are avenues outside of a public forum where the information can be disseminated.
Discussing information on an open access forum that can be used to attack the general populace and to train to resist first responders should be avoided.
Some training courses are offered by invitation only for good reason. The briefing at the beginning of a course that covers material far beyond the basics should touch on how and when the presented material should be used.
Many will disagree with my point of view, but I take comfort in knowing that someone who would misuse the information will get nothing from me or anyone I have taught courses with over the years.
This is the internet; everyone is watching.
Not from me. In full agreement here.
ForTehNguyen
11-17-13, 21:34
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/15/21471203-lax-shooting-tsa-officer-hernandez-bled-for-33-minutes-at-scene-report
LAX shooting: TSA officer Hernandez bled for 33 minutes at scene - report
By Tami Abdollah, The Associated Press
LOS ANGELES - An airport security officer lay helplessly bleeding after a gunman opened fire at Los Angeles International Airport as paramedics waited 150 yards away because police had not declared the terminal safe to enter, according to two law enforcement officials.
It would be 33 minutes before Transportation Security Administration Officer Gerardo Hernandez, who was about 20 feet from an exit, would be wheeled out by police to an ambulance, said the officials, who were briefed on the investigation and spoke on condition of anonymity because the probe was still ongoing into the Nov. 1 shooting.
For all but five of those minutes, there was no threat from the suspected gunman — he had been shot and was in custody, they said.
While it's not known when Hernandez died or if immediate medical attention could have saved his life, officials are examining what conversations took place between police and fire commanders to determine when it was safe enough to enter and whether paramedics could have gone into the terminal earlier, one of the officials said.
Formal conclusions may take months to reach, but what's known raises the possibility that a lack of coordination between police and fire officials prevented speedy treatment for Hernandez and other victims.
TSA workers at LAX have been wondering the same thing, said Victor Payes, who works at the airport and is president of the local union.
"I basically think there's a lack of coordination between entities at this airport. That lack of coordination may have led to something that shouldn't have happened," Payes said. "We may be talking about Officer Hernandez as a survivor."
Representatives for the Los Angeles Police Department, Los Angeles Fire Department and Los Angeles Airport Police said they couldn't comment on the ongoing investigation until extensive reports are finished.
Authorities say that Paul Ciancia entered Terminal 3 with a duffel bag, pulled out an assault rifle and started shooting. They said he had a note in his bag that said he wanted to "kill TSA" and that he wanted to stir fear in them, criticizing their searches as unconstitutional.
He was shot by airport police officers four times, in the mouth and leg, before being taken into custody. He remains in fair condition at a hospital and his doctors will determine when he's fit to appear in court.
In the chaotic moments after the gunfire began, as travelers dove to the ground or scrambled for cover in restaurants and stores, officials worried there could be bombs in the terminal and tried to determine Whether the gunman had any accomplices. In the first 30 minutes, there was also an unfounded report of two suspicious people on an adjacent parking garage roof, one of the officials said.
Officers from multiple agencies bent down to check on Hernandez before moving on, officials said.
Police broadcast over their radios that Ciancia was in custody at 9:25 a.m., five minutes after Hernandez was shot in the chest. That's when a nearly 26-year veteran Los Angeles police officer checked on Hernandez several times, repeatedly telling officers who came by from various agencies "he's dead," according to one of the law enforcement officials.
It's unclear whether the officer was qualified to determine Hernandez was dead. No officers rendered first aid on scene, according to surveillance video reviewed by the officials. Finally, airport police put Hernandez in a wheelchair and ran him to an ambulance.
Trauma surgeon David Plurad said Hernandez had no signs of life when he arrived at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. Doctors worked for about an hour to revive him despite significant blood loss.
"When somebody is shot and they're bleeding to death, lifesaving skills need to be implemented immediately, in a couple minutes, and they're very simple, pressure dressings, tourniquets, adequate bandages to stop the bleeding," said Dr. Lawrence E. Heiskell, an emergency physician for 27 years and a reserve police officer for 24 years who founded the state and federally approved International School of Tactical Medicine.
Responding to a situation with a shooter on the loose has changed since the 1999 Columbine school massacre, when officials huddled outside to formulate a plan while shooters continued firing inside and a teacher bled to death without timely treatment. Now police immediately charge in to stop the shooting as quickly as possible; officers are trained to step over the wounded and stop the gunman first, then tend to victims.
During active shooter training last month with the LAX police and LAPD, Los Angeles city firefighters wearing ballistic vests and helmets dragged survivors to areas where they could provide treatment.
Because police are often the first at the scene where there are injuries, California law requires officers receive first aid and CPR training in the academy and regular refreshers afterward.
A recent audit by Los Angeles Police Commission Inspector General Alex Bustamante found that the LAPD had a zero percent compliance rate. Only 250-sworn officers in the Metropolitan Division out of the department's more than 9,900 sworn officers received the refresher training, it states. Airport police have the training.
On day-to-day crime scenes, firefighters wait down the street until police clear the scene, usually in minutes, and allow them in, Los Angeles County Fire Battalion Chief Larry Collins, who's a member of a Los Angeles interagency working group creating best practices for mass casualty incidents.
"When we have an active shooter, we can't hold back a block away, we've got to go in" because clearing the scene could take hours.
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