View Full Version : Is My AR Corroded Or Otherwise FUBAR'd? Pics Included-New Update
**Current 2014 update on page 2, #27**
So I recently attended a class where it rained all weekend, and my rifle was out in it for two days. After day 1 I went back to the hotel, opened it up, wiped off all the crap and re-lubed.
Day two, rifle was either being used, or sitting in a rack (barrel up, dust cover 50/50 open/closed depending if I remembered- if any of this matters) all day in the rain- needless to say it got soaked.
Day two also drove home, so did not have time to clean that day.
However, very next day I opened the thing up, and I was like holy crap! Green stuff everywhere! :eek:
In the receiver, flash hider, all over the BCG and internal parts, bolt, etc. And in the gas tube and carrier key, some of it even doing that wierd puffy thing like batteries do when they leak.
Suprisingly, observing with a flashlight, I did not see any in the chamber/barrel, and a quick q-tip swab seemed to confirm this (however, have not had time to do a full clean- so I may be wrong).
Here are the pics of the carnage;
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/BCG1_zpsd90db365.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/BCG2_zps46485655.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/BCG3_zpsec40a84a.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/Bolt1_zps5cf0aee0.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/Bolt2_zps7e8d1975.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/CarrierInternal1_zpsb8d62719.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/FPin1_zps1a0f0512.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/FPin2_zps669afc3d.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/Gas1_zpse8b936a7.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/FH_Front1_zps70ece260.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/Charging1_zps631da68c.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/JellybeanA5/Mag1_zpsedaec9e1.jpg
I immediately wiped off everything I could- most seemed to come of and overall the gun is mostly clean, as I would expect with it being amodized/coated/hard chromed etc., however, I could not get it all off the bolt tail (probably needs scraping), or the internals of the carrier (again, probably needs an axe taken to it...:p ).
I have not had time to do a full clean due to lack of time, so it's been sitting as-is (wiped) about a week or two, and I wanted to get an opinion first anyway...
I figured maybe this may be some sort of copper buildup and reaction to getting wet, as you can see the picture of the bullets up there with the green crap on them- it wiped right off them...
HOWEVER....
What is really worrying me is, on the firing pin it does not seem to want to come off- almost like it may be imbedded in the metal.
It is down inside the carrier key, and I can't get to it with the usual Qtip.
It is on the end and INSIDE the gas tube- the stuff on the end, again, seems almost embedded in it, and it doesn't seem to want to scrape off, and the inside of the tube, as best as I can see, is almost solid green.... I don't know how to get that out or if it will even come out....
:bad:
So even though I was originally thinking some sort of copper/water/powder reaction, now I'm thinking, maybe there's more to it, since it came of the parts ok except for parts that had worn finish areas, or are (uncoated?) metal.
What IS this green stuff, and what do I need to do to get rid of it and get it out of the gas tube/carrier key?
:mad:
**Included extra relevant info- see post #13 for the rest of the story.**
Hmm.. what ammo were you using?
What you are looking at is Copper (II) Hydroxide.
It's not rust. One of the lubes or cleaners you used contained ammonium hydroxide. It reacted with the copper from the bore and drained down into the rifle. I would clean it off, could corrode after a loooooong time of sitting there if the finish was removed.
Did you use hoppes #9? Ammonia is listed on the MSDS.
No harm on the rifle.
Are you using "Zombie Lube"?? I to believe it is was caused by the combination of the powder/gas and the lube/cleaner. There any number of things you can do to keep rain out of the barrel. GH
What you are looking at is Copper (II) Hydroxide.
It's not rust. One of the lubes or cleaners you used contained ammonium hydroxide. It reacted with the copper from the bore and drained down into the rifle. I would clean it off, could corrode after a loooooong time of sitting there if the finish was removed.
Did you use hoppes #9? Ammonia is listed on the MSDS.
No harm on the rifle.
I thought Hoppes was one of those safe to use on chromed barrels, i.e. it doesn't have ammonia in it? Or if it does it's pretty benign(?).
I thought Hoppes was one of those safe to use on chromed barrels, i.e. it doesn't have ammonia in it? Or if it does it's pretty benign(?).
What does being safe to use on a chrome barrel have anything to do with all the other parts on the gun? :) Especially since it was all parts other than the barrel that looks like they got hit.
Its trashed send it to me:D..
I have seen a rifle like that before maybe not quite as bad but it was from a day in the rain and left for a day or two also, we used some fire clean and gave it a deep clean, let the parts sit where the wet parts would drain and afterward gave it another clean then lube job. We just sprayed some down the gas tube and made sure it sat out after we were done the final clean enough to dry. If it is that bad it is not a expensive part to change out. You could even use a hair dryer to make sure no moisture is existent. Since then my buddy who's rifle it was have been to the range a handful of times and we never had an issue, now we can not even tell it once looked like it was growing minerals
As said its a copper oxide compound. Gun hasn't been touched. Just clean and carry on. For the green/ blue stuff(copper). Buy some copper solvent and it should do the trick.
That Is actually pretty common. Just give it a good scrubbing and soak the carrier in some solvent and brush, brush, and brush. Whole your at it do the same to the firing pin.
Your rifle is fine
BTW: What kind of ammo were you using. I usually only see it this bad when using the mil-surp imported ammo.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I thought Hoppes was one of those safe to use on chromed barrels, i.e. it doesn't have ammonia in it? Or if it does it's pretty benign(?).
Hoppes 9 is 3-7% Ammonium Hydroxide (ammonia) by weight.
This is NOT an oxide of copper. Those would be black or red.
Never put a wet gun in a case, ever.
Archer1440
11-03-13, 22:22
Hoppes 9 is 3-7% Ammonium Hydroxide (ammonia) by weight.
This is NOT an oxide of copper. Those would be black or red.
Copper (II) Hydroxide or Cu(OH)2 is exactly the color of the contaminant shown in the photos. Aquamarine color. Copper oxide (CuO) is indeed black as you mention.
The interesting thing here is that there shouldn't be a mechanism for formation of CuOH2 on all these surfaces- unless you consider that nitric acid is needed to start the reaction. And, nitric acid is a contaminant in improperly stabilized, or degraded smokeless powder. Excess heat, for instance, can cause powder to generate nitric acid (which is used as an ingredient in manufacture).
So, it would be interesting to know what ammo was used.
And, you definitely don't want to leave this stuff on your metal surfaces :)
My bad guys- forgot the important info-
Cleaner- Hoppes #9
Lube- Slip 2000EWL
Ammo- PMC Bronze
The rifle was not left in a case (more or less)- was wiped dry (outer surface), shipped home in a loose duffel bag, sat overnight/half day, then was taken out, problem was observed.
I didn't even think about the rain going down the barrel, honestly- I could have probably racked it muzzle down, but everyone else was muzzle up, so, monkey see, monkey do and all that.
Foxtrot1's mention of the Hoppes interacting w/ the copper in bore may be the thing here- I have used Hoppes#9 all along, and recently (last couple range trips) after cleaning my rifle, I'll take it out say, day before range trip, and re-lube everything. Have noticed when running patch down the bore, there was some green residue on the patch-not much, bot noticeable- 1 patch usually got it all out first try. One time there was even some green crap in FH similar to the picture.
So there may be something to the Hoppes+copper interacting, then exacerbated by rain/carbon.
So let me see if Im getting this straight- some of this issue may be due to the Hoppes?
It seems my original plan of "soak and scrub" was right, but if the Hoppes is part of the issue, then I don't want to re-introduce it...
Apparently I have to get some copper build up out as well.
Recommends for anti-copper stuff? Would Gunslick or Break Free Foaming Solvent be worth anything in this area? Or do I need something more copper-specific?
That Fireclean seems interesting, having skimmed a couple threads....
Would squirting some sort of solvent into the gas tube/carrier key, soaking, and then blowing it out w/ air be a bad thing to do?
Any other ideas for getting the green crap out of the gas tube and carrier key?
Maybe just chucking the whole tube is in order...:rolleyes:
Copper (II) Chloride is also the same color as what's in the pictures when it takes on water.
Copper (II) Hydroxide or Cu(OH)2 is exactly the color of the contaminant shown in the photos. Aquamarine color. Copper oxide (CuO) is indeed black as you mention.
The interesting thing here is that there shouldn't be a mechanism for formation of CuOH2 on all these surfaces- unless you consider that nitric acid is needed to start the reaction. And, nitric acid is a contaminant in improperly stabilized, or degraded smokeless powder. Excess heat, for instance, can cause powder to generate nitric acid (which is used as an ingredient in manufacture).
So, it would be interesting to know what ammo was used.
And, you definitely don't want to leave this stuff on your metal surfaces :)
No nitric acid is needed.
Copper (II) Chloride is also the same color as what's in the pictures when it takes on water.
Good point. He could be using a chlorinated lubricant.
Edit to add: No, he just said he is using hoppes.
OP: I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it bugs you only use hopes in the bore and make sure the rifle drains out the barrel, wash out the hoppes with lube. The blue means it's working, but you are prob overdoing it if it's leaking onto your magazine.
ingram4868
11-03-13, 23:12
Perhaps a commercial ultrasonic cleaner would remove the crud. Check with your local gunsmith shops to see who has one.
mastiffhound
11-04-13, 00:26
If it bugs you only use hopes in the bore and make sure the rifle drains out the barrel, wash out the hoppes with lube. The blue means it's working, but you are prob overdoing it if it's leaking onto your magazine.
I only use hoppes in the bore, the rest (bore also) gets cleaned and lubed with CLP or Rem-oil (I know, behind the times) and have never seen this. I picked up some hoppes semi-auto (new hoppes I guess) and have yet to use it(exhausting my old hoppes supply first).
I would also say it could be that your using too much hoppes if your mag and ammo are getting the full treatment too. I only use a wet patch and brush with hoppes. You can get a sonic cleaner and try that, $100 on up I think. I just used my Hornady sonic cleaner with a little citrus dish soap to clean my BCG, just take it apart first or you won't get the full effect.
......... I would also say it could be that your using too much hoppes if your mag and ammo are getting the full treatment too. I only use a wet patch and brush with hoppes....
No, this is not an issue- I have never had that happen to any rounds ever before this. The rounds in the mag pictured was a partial mag with a few rounds left- the last mag I had in the gun at the class before unloading. So it got the crap on it from sitting in the gun, and having the stuff blasted onto it from shooting.
mastiffhound
11-05-13, 02:15
No, this is not an issue- I have never had that happen to any rounds ever before this. The rounds in the mag pictured was a partial mag with a few rounds left- the last mag I had in the gun at the class before unloading. So it got the crap on it from sitting in the gun, and having the stuff blasted onto it from shooting.
I had another thought, I wonder if you got a bad batch of hoppes with a higher content of ammonia?
I use Hoppes in my barrels and to clean my FH - I get some of this on the FHs sometimes, especially when shooting suppressed but it comes off and isn't rust.
I'd say clean the crap off and your good to go.
kaltesherz
11-05-13, 20:11
I'd say clean the crap off and your good to go.
This. If riding an AR hard in the rain / mud for a few days without a good cleaning caused serious (or any, really) damage then those of us in combat arms would be royally effed. Clean it, drive on...
I'd say clean the crap off and your good to go.
+2
If it really bothered you that much, buy a spare BCG if you have the cash. They're pretty cheap and abundant right now anyway. Its always good to have spares.
Well, now that I know that is't not actually corrosion, the overall BCG/parts are not a concern. :)
What IS still bugging me is how to get it out of the gas tube/carrier key, as especially in the GT, it is solid green....
Can you get a pipe cleaner into those places? Maybe shooting it and letting the gas blow it out might help.
Wanted to give a quick update to this.
If you read the original post, I won't bore you with all the previous details- that being said, after wiping it down initially and scraping off what I could it ended up sitting in the closet for another month- just could not find time to clean it.
Anyway, I got some new ammo I wanted to try, so I figured I'd put TOG's idea to the test, and see if re-lubing and firing a few (50) rounds would either blast it out or soak in and loosen some of it up. It seems to have worked- the gas tube, as far as I can see internally has either been blasted out, or just has a new layer of black over the green... :laugh: The rest of the rifles internals were pretty clean after the original wipe-off, but any noticeable green that was left was gone, and there was some new green leaking out from places I hadn't noticed.
Then I finally cleaned the thing- used my usual Hoppes#9, as I wanted to see what would happen given some of the suggestions here.
Spent an hour or so scrubbing over every bit- BCG, internals, FH, barrel, etc.
As it's just going to be sitting on the closet for a while I sprayed all internals down with some Rem-oil I had laying around and need to use up.
Fast forward a week- dug it out of the closet, inspected internals, wiped down and re-sprayed.
No new green growth noticed in internals or FH. Some residual green in with the wipe-off lube, but only in a few places where it seems to have run off from somewhere else and collected.
Will keep an eye on it for a while still, but seems ok for now.
texasgunhand
01-26-14, 23:01
Ive used hoppes#9 forever,ive seen it turn patches green,but ive never seen that much everywhere...
Obscenejesster
01-27-14, 22:33
Did you happen to put it into a foam lined case while it was still wet?
Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7
SurplusShooter
01-27-14, 23:31
Just so you know, RemOil is worthless for "rust prevention", it doesn't stick-around like a good oil should. I used to use it for cleaning, but I am moving away from it. Over on the Surplus rifle forums everyone agrees RemOil is junk and it will allow your gun to rust if you rely on it.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.