View Full Version : Need advice on next 7.62x51 rifle
Don't post here often, mostly just read and search. Anyways Im in the market for another .308 rifle. Just looking for any advice/ thoughts on a good, reliable decently accurate rifle. Reliability and dependability are the most important to me. I have $3k Im looking to spend, I am considering the following three rifles >
1. LRB M25 Tanker
2. SCAR 17
3. HK MR762a1
Any other possible suggestions for a better rifle?
Recap>
Reliable
piston system
easy to mount a scope
+- $3,000
I have extensive training with both M14, AR platforms, I like the handling of M14 rifles, and have plenty of time behind M16's/m4's I have handled a few FAL's, AK etc.. SO if you got anything that isnt on my list above throw it out there. Just looking for something really good.
Thanks, and looking forward to your suggestions. And if theres anything else you need to know just ask.
You can scratch the MR762 off your list based on your budget, they're going for ~$3700+/- new right now.
With that said, I don't have a lot of rounds through mine yet but the rounds I've put through it at 100 yards tells me it is stupid accurate. Haven't had it long and only really sighted it in at this point but once I got my bore sight straightened out and zero'd it I put 3 quick rounds into a 1/2" group. Stupid accurate.
I'm going to try to make it out to the 200 yard range and post a report this weekend. Based on my sighting in I have pretty high expectations.
A FAL is not the most accurate rifle out there, but it would be my first pick for a .30 caliber semi-automatic defensive rifle. They are durable and have a proven track record.
Heartily endorse the SCAR17. Reliable, accurate, and ergonomic. My favorite 7.62 gun. This is from a guy who owns 2x FALs, owned a M14NM, and a AR10 pattern rifle.
paramarine
11-04-13, 23:43
Love my LRB Tanker with a Vltor stock. Of course, I'd like to have that HK too.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
From your list, SCAR 17.
The HK91 remains my favorite .308 semi rifle.
Thank you for your replies, wow didnt realize the HK was going for around $3,700, but if it is worth it I would save up for another month to purchase it.
I do like the FAL rifles, just wouldnt know which maker to buy from, heard DSA was good, only issue is mounting an optic to one, I think DSA makes a mount for a couple of hundred.
We got two votes for the SCAR, I was kinda thinking of that, hopefully I could find one haha.
Still open to suggestions, thanks again.
I have FALs and like them, but they feel a little dated these days. You should really get an FAL because you want an FAL.
I'd get an high quality AR10 (or two for the price of the HK)... or a SCAR (which will be much easier to find than a 417).
SCAR 17. Designed for 7.62 Nato, lightweight, robust, designed for optics, comes with BUIS, foldable, and well made.
H
3 very different choices.
I chose the SCAR 17.
MR762 was too heavy and expensive, plus expensive mags and no adjustable gas block.
Didn't consider the LRB, old design for me - not bad, just not modern like I wanted.
There is the Ruger SR762. May or may not be worth the gamble as Most others listed have been proven.
PatrioticDisorder
11-05-13, 18:54
LRB is an antique, MR762 is an over priced watered down for civilian front heavy pig. SCAR 17s is the no brainer choice of the 3 you listed.
Moose-Knuckle
11-05-13, 19:35
OP, from your list the FN SCAR 17 is the clear choice, I can't think of any other modern battle rifle that has the R&D the SCAR has had.
From your list, SCAR 17.
The HK91 remains my favorite .308 semi rifle.
Slight thread derail, Steyr I know from ready your posts over the years you have one of the bigger collections on the board and with that experience on different platforms. Could you elaborate a bit on why you prefer the HK91 over say an FAL or M14? Thanks.
JoeStrummer
11-05-13, 19:38
I have had a FAL, one of the early STG parts kit on a Imbel receiver, barrel cut to 18", and a parkerized finish and muzzle break by AD Customs.
It was reasonably accurate and reliable, selling off that rifle was the biggest gun sale regret ever.
Traded it off when Bushmaster came out with the BAR-10 :suicide2:
At 400 rounds it had to go back to BM because the gas block came lose and the rifle started to short stroke.
It was returned from BM and I promptly got rid of it, the entire time kicking myself in the ass for getting rid of that FAL.
I have a SCAR 17 now and really enjoy it, I have taken a carbine/pistol course with it, but I am always keeping a eye out for a good FAL.
Saddly, of all my battle rifles (including the SCAR 17s), I still lean towards the FAL Para with DSA scope mount top cover/Aimpoint T1. I can do no wrong with this gun. I really wanted the SCAR to supersede everything, but it just feels so "big". I got out of the M1A game completely. Great gun, it just couldn't keep up scope mounting wise. Or at least I couldn't find a trouble free solution. Maybe the LRB integrated mount receiver?
SCAR 17s is a great gun too and is definitely the solid choice for a modern battle rifle. I just have a soft spot for the FAL due to the number of rounds I've put through mine. Maybe one day I'll appreciate the 17s more. The HK91 qualifies as the gun I most like to look at/play with and take pictures of, but I'm not afraid to admit that it beats me up on the range. And to add insult to injury for the HK, I'm left handed.
An HK91 would be a great alternative option for you to consider...and a nice one would fall well below your budget of $3K.
For the record:
SCAR17S 8# empty
HKMR762 8.6# empty
An HK91 would be a great alternative option for you to consider...and a nice one would fall well below your budget of $3K.
For the record:
SCAR17S 8# empty
HKMR762 8.6# empty
Are those actual weights you've recorded?
Spec sheets weights are 7.9 and 9.94lbs, respectively, from the company's websites. Can't find anything else online to show different.
Are those actual weights you've recorded?
Spec sheets weights are 7.9 and 9.94lbs, respectively, from the company's websites. Can't find anything else online to show different.
You win. That HK MR762 feels a lot heavier than 8.6 (I might even like it at that weight). I highly doubt that HK would attribute an additional 1.34 lbs. that isn't really there. They will load bullets backward in magazines however, so who knows...
PatrioticDisorder
11-05-13, 21:57
HKMR762 8.6# empty
Your scale must be broken...
You win. That HK MR762 feels a lot heavier than 8.6 (I might even like it at that weight). I highly doubt that HK would attribute an additional 1.34 lbs. that isn't really there. They will load bullets backward in magazines however, so who knows...
No, I was looking at the 5.56 weight for some stupid reason...9.x is actually correct. That's what I get for not paying attention to google results.
Thank you for your replies, wow didnt realize the HK was going for around $3,700, but if it is worth it I would save up for another month to purchase it.
I do like the FAL rifles, just wouldnt know which maker to buy from, heard DSA was good, only issue is mounting an optic to one, I think DSA makes a mount for a couple of hundred.
We got two votes for the SCAR, I was kinda thinking of that, hopefully I could find one haha.
Still open to suggestions, thanks again.
I wouldn't buy the HK if it were $1,700. I got in around $2,300 I think and disliked it so much I sold it.
Unless you go Belgian FN or Springfield import Imbel preban, DSA is the ONLY FAL to buy. Lots of options...all good.
Slight thread derail, Steyr I know from ready your posts over the years you have one of the bigger collections on the board and with that experience on different platforms. Could you elaborate a bit on why you prefer the HK91 over say an FAL or M14? Thanks.
Straight insert and drop magazines vs. rock n lock.
Best recoil (this is why the L1A1 is semi only and few people went rock n roll with their M14s). Many claim otherwise but I own all three and that is my experience.
Sight preference, for me I like the HK setup better than the FAL or M1A1.
HK modularity, going from a fixed stock to a para stock on a HK is two pins. Not quite the same story for the FAL.
It is my opinion that the HK is more accurate than the FAL, but not as accurate as the M1A1. It is my opinion that the HK is more reliable than the M1A1 and probably more reliable than the FAL.
All that said, I'd be fine shooting bad people with any one of them. For Red Dawn scenarios my choices in order would be HK91, FAL, M1A1.
Are those actual weights you've recorded?
Spec sheets weights are 7.9 and 9.94lbs, respectively, from the company's websites. Can't find anything else online to show different.
And I swear half that weight on the HK is up front.
Moose-Knuckle
11-06-13, 01:49
Straight insert and drop magazines vs. rock n lock.
Best recoil (this is why the L1A1 is semi only and few people went rock n roll with their M14s). Many claim otherwise but I own all three and that is my experience.
Sight preference, for me I like the HK setup better than the FAL or M1A1.
HK modularity, going from a fixed stock to a para stock on a HK is two pins. Not quite the same story for the FAL.
It is my opinion that the HK is more accurate than the FAL, but not as accurate as the M1A1. It is my opinion that the HK is more reliable than the M1A1 and probably more reliable than the FAL.
All that said, I'd be fine shooting bad people with any one of them. For Red Dawn scenarios my choices in order would be HK91, FAL, M1A1.
Excellent post, thanks.
And I swear half that weight on the HK is up front.
I haven't held a MR762, but I held a MR556 and it felt as you describe as well. Very front heavy.
I haven't held a MR762, but I held a MR556 and it felt as you describe as well. Very front heavy.
As I own and have shot both, the 556 is front heavy due to the barrel profile. The 762 feels very balanced in comparison and doesn't feel as heavy or cumbersome as an HK91, even with the A3 stock.
Another vote for the SCAR17, in FDE if you can find one :cool:
I'd suggest the KAC SR25 too, but I'm not sure if that fits in your budget and didn't see the price list on KAC site.
PatrioticDisorder
11-07-13, 08:33
As I own and have shot both, the 556 is front heavy due to the barrel profile. The 762 feels very balanced in comparison and doesn't feel as heavy or cumbersome as an HK91, even with the A3 stock.
You must have a special MR762 because the ones I've picked up are extremely front heavy!
Since the search tool seems to be out of commission for me at the moment...Are the PTR-91s anywhere near the original HKs in terms of reliability? And DSA FALs are still good to go? I thought the DSA guns were less highly regarded since they ran out of surplus parts. I really want a semi-auto .308 myself and have a strong bias toward the FAL in this regard as I've always wanted one, but I'm really most interested in getting whatever is currently the more reliable weapon. So functionality trumps visceral appeal. If it turns out that neither the PTR or DSA are considered particularly good choices for potential "serious use" then I guess it's time to either start scanning gunbroker for a SAR-48 or start saving up for the SCAR or some of the higher end .308 ARs.
Scar17 all the way. No contest. It feels and handles like an ar15 and is much more accurate than it should be.
From your list, SCAR 17.
The HK91 remains my favorite .308 semi rifle.
+1...
As I own and have shot both, the 556 is front heavy due to the barrel profile. The 762 feels very balanced in comparison and doesn't feel as heavy or cumbersome as an HK91, even with the A3 stock.
Point of clarification. I made an error. I was thinking of the MR556 when I posted my front heavy comment.
Since the search tool seems to be out of commission for me at the moment...Are the PTR-91s anywhere near the original HKs in terms of reliability? And DSA FALs are still good to go? I thought the DSA guns were less highly regarded since they ran out of surplus parts. I really want a semi-auto .308 myself and have a strong bias toward the FAL in this regard as I've always wanted one, but I'm really most interested in getting whatever is currently the more reliable weapon. So functionality trumps visceral appeal. If it turns out that neither the PTR or DSA are considered particularly good choices for potential "serious use" then I guess it's time to either start scanning gunbroker for a SAR-48 or start saving up for the SCAR or some of the higher end .308 ARs.
I think DSA home rolled FALs are good to go. I did a extremely comprehensive post on HK rifle options. The jury is still a tad out regarding PTRs. Give it a read and you decide.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?78756-So-You-Want-To-Buy-A-HK91-G3-Rifle
I'm sure Steyr has more knowledge of the HK platform than I do, but my PTR's have been 100%. There are some chamber issues with serial # AW3000-AW8000, but the newer ones are supposed to be good to go. The early JLD PTR's run great as well. Mine are all after JLD but before AW3000. Also look at the Greek contracted 91's by Hellenic Arms. They are bad ass and every bit as quality as a German 91. There are also some Portuguese contracted one out there as well.
An HK91 would be a great alternative option for you to consider...and a nice one would fall well below your budget of $3K.
For the record:
SCAR17S 8# empty
HKMR762 8.6# empty
HKMR556 8.6# without magazine
HKMR762 9.94# with empty 20 round magazine
I'd chose the Scar 17S if the 3k was just for the rifle. When everything is said and done your probably going to be looking at a 5k investment with optics, mags, and accessories. I bought a 17S on gunbroker for a good price and mags are much cheaper and readily available now. Everyone that has handled it and shot it loves the rifle. The cool thing with the 17 is you can run it with a RDS or magnification and it works because the rifle isn't a pig. I'm saving up for a USO 1-8x that seems like the perfect optic for that rifle.
With the HK its a pig of a rifle if I wanted an AR type .308 I'd personally look into a LMT MWS. I think mags for the MR762 run in the neighborhood of $90 a piece if you can find them. Sorry but its hard to justify the cost, by the time you get a reasonable stash of mags (my minimum is 15 YMMV) your into KAC SR-25 ECC territory which runs Pmags.
I also have a Atlantic exclusive PTR-91 A3S which set me back about $1100 and bought 100 mags for $2.00 a piece shipped. This is the best damn deal on the current market for a .308 I know of. Tough as nails and to hell and back reliable.
For 3K I would consider the FAL with short barrel and folding stock.
SCAR 17S, make sure you budget for and buy the Geissele Super SCAR trigger immediately. The Black 17s are not hard to find, it's the FDE 17s that are harder to come by. I like the SCAR 17 enough I got the FDE....then the black too.
The rifle can be kept VERY light if you don't load it up with big glass. The problem is that the rifle likes shooting at some distance and challenges you to put more glass on it. It also likes heavier 7.62 rounds like 168 grain and more best.
Finally, make sure you get a very good scope and mount, as the 17S likes to loosen up mounts, and sometimes destroy lessor optics. I put a NF 2.5-10X 32 on one, its an OK scope (the new NF 2.5-10X is better, but near $2500).
I recommend the ADM Delta mount for the 17S, it was made for the rifle and provides a STOUT platform for a scope.
viper3colt
11-19-13, 05:10
Well I am clearing out the safe of everything I have not shot in the last two years to make room for a SCAR 17S. Which should be here the first week of December. Have done a lot of research and it would do the job around the property. .
All are excellent rifles. Which one do you think you would enjoy shooting the most?
General ownership and shooting enjoyment are very important. It’s not likely that we will take a personal rifle into combat. If you do, having one you have built a solid foundation of skills and muscle memory with will be a good thing.
I enjoy shooting the M1 and M14 platforms the most and I’m comfortable with them. I shoot them in competitions and practice often.
Fulton Armory Bush Rifle.
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/Guns/IMG_8823_zps1282838e.jpg (http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/Undefineduser45/media/Guns/IMG_8823_zps1282838e.jpg.html)
From the list, I'd go HK all the way. If the gun feels to heavy, the barrel can be re-profiled. Grant has them for $3600.
Never shot a 17S with that flame thrower on the end, but a MK17 with the flash suppressor has some stout recoil. It's stupid accurate, and quite reliable, but it's got a lot in the CONS column as well. Recoil, charging handle, and stock being the main ones for me.
For much less money than the HK, I'd go FAL all the way. an 18" or even 16" (with full length gas) FAL is a mighty handy rifle/carbine. It's not optimum for mounting optics, lasers, lights, etc. but there are options for it these days. I prefer the sights on the G3/HK91, but I perceive much more recoil on the G3. I also like that the FAL has an adjustable gas block. I realize why the HK doesn't.
For much less money than the HK, I'd go FAL all the way. an 18" or even 16" (with full length gas) FAL is a mighty handy rifle/carbine. It's not optimum for mounting optics, lasers, lights, etc. but there are options for it these days. I prefer the sights on the G3/HK91, but I perceive much more recoil on the G3. I also like that the FAL has an adjustable gas block. I realize why the HK doesn't.
This is how I feel exactly. I prefer a 16" FAL Para with a DSA top cover over the SCAR 17s. I've currently got an older (~2000) DSA, but have been toying around with the Idea of offing my SCAR for a 50.63. I just don't think I can let go of an essentially new SCAR for a 30 year old rifle!
Moose-Knuckle
11-23-13, 19:59
From the list, I'd go HK all the way. If the gun feels to heavy, the barrel can be re-profiled.
NongShim, any SOF units (US and or allies) have any time on the HK MR762?
NongShim, any SOF units (US and or allies) have any time on the HK MR762?
Most USSOF use KAC and FN when it comes to .308s. There are some units abroad, that use HK417. I bet if you did a google image search you'd find a lot of pictures from AFG. Lots of GPF UK units issue the LMT MWS to their DMs. Lots of those guys running around out there in the wild.
From the list, I'd go HK all the way. If the gun feels to heavy, the barrel can be re-profiled. Grant has them for $3600.
Never shot a 17S with that flame thrower on the end, but a MK17 with the flash suppressor has some stout recoil. It's stupid accurate, and quite reliable, but it's got a lot in the CONS column as well. Recoil, charging handle, and stock being the main ones for me.
For much less money than the HK, I'd go FAL all the way. an 18" or even 16" (with full length gas) FAL is a mighty handy rifle/carbine. It's not optimum for mounting optics, lasers, lights, etc. but there are options for it these days. I prefer the sights on the G3/HK91, but I perceive much more
recoil on the G3. I also like that the FAL has an adjustable gas block. I realize why the HK doesn't.
Why would anyone take a sweet shooting SCAR 17 and just throw a flash hider with no compensation designed into it on the rifle? I guess if you are in an environment where the flash hider would really help....maybe. But a 7.62 NATO rifle with a 16" barrel makes a pretty good flash whether or not it has a flash hider. The PWS has some flash suppression.
I guess it depends on your use for the rifle.
I own two 17S rifles and I've been told over and over how little recoil there is compared to other battle rifles. That confirms my experience. You are the probably one of a few people I've heard of who do not think the SCAR recoil impulse is very good.
Also, I prefer the SCAR charging handle as I can operate it without repositioning the rifle. I also like the stock, so I guess we just see things differently.
QuietShootr
11-25-13, 14:28
Why would anyone take a sweet shooting SCAR 17 and just throw a flash hider with no compensation designed into it on the rifle? I guess if you are in an environment where the flash hider would really help....maybe. But a 7.62 NATO rifle with a 16" barrel makes a pretty good flash whether or not it has a flash hider. The PWS has some flash suppression.
.
Perhaps someone who anticipates firing it without hearing protection at some point? The PWS brake on my SCAR caused permanent tinnitus in my right ear (Yes, I was wearing plugs) after just a few hundred rounds. Granted that ear was somewhat damaged anyway, but it didn't ring 24/7 until a couple of good sessions with the 17. I wish I'd put the Gemtech FS I have on it now on it to start with. It increases the recoil a little, but damn, it's still not a hard recoiling gun.
jawalterusmc
11-27-13, 11:20
Really like my Springfield Armory M1A
http://www.atlantictactical.com/product/springfield-armory-m1a-scout-squad-rifle
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-27-13, 17:56
I believe that the HK91 is the best battle rifle around. I have owned two SCAR-17s, a M1A Scout, etc and have sold them all off for various reasons. The HK91 can be founds considerably cheaper, and outfitted to be one heck of a doomsday rifle. That being said, the SCAR-17 is the best deal around for a NIB battle rifle.
Lawnchair 04
11-27-13, 18:59
I don't know about you but the new ruger sr762 has caught my attention. I'm waiting on more range/accuracy reviews before I jump in though.
Moose-Knuckle
11-27-13, 20:43
I believe that the HK91 is the best battle rifle around. I have owned two SCAR-17s, a M1A Scout, etc and have sold them all off for various reasons. The HK91 can be founds considerably cheaper, and outfitted to be one heck of a doomsday rifle. That being said, the SCAR-17 is the best deal around for a NIB battle rifle.
Greg, how do you have your 91 set up?
Why would anyone take a sweet shooting SCAR 17 and just throw a flash hider with no compensation designed into it on the rifle? I guess if you are in an environment where the flash hider would really help....maybe. But a 7.62 NATO rifle with a 16" barrel makes a pretty good flash whether or not it has a flash hider. The PWS has some flash suppression.
I guess it depends on your use for the rifle.
I own two 17S rifles and I've been told over and over how little recoil there is compared to other battle rifles. That confirms my experience. You are the probably one of a few people I've heard of who do not think the SCAR recoil impulse is very good.
Also, I prefer the SCAR charging handle as I can operate it without repositioning the rifle. I also like the stock, so I guess we just see things differently.
Full disclosure. I've never fired or even touched a 17S. I have a MK17 which I've carried a lot.
The stock is certainly a weak link. It's failures are well known.
The charging handle placement has caused many scraped knuckles, and many torqued thumbs. It is also a culprit for causing the gun to go out of battery when it snags on...anything.
That PWS flame thrower does not reduce flash. It's a flame thrower, and they tried to make it throw less flame than other flame throwers. It's still a flame thrower compared to a flash suppressor. It makes a big difference when shooting unsuppressed, in low light/dark conditions, both with and without NODs. Not only does it make a difference to you as a shooter, it makes a difference to the people you're exchanging fire with.
So, in the context of being a "battle rifle," "serious use rifle," "social issue solver," "any other round about way of saying 'gun for killing people' that we use on the internet," having that PWS torch on the end is an exclusion criteria in my book. A rifle/carbine that has anything that is not a flash suppressor on the end goes into the "fun-to-play-with toy box." That's ok.
The .308 SCAR is still a good gun, but there are better options out there. I prefer shooting AR-pattern or FALs when I shoot semi-auto .308s.
I owned and used a SCAR for a whike , was able to flip it and put the money into a Remington 700 chambered in .308
If I purchase another .308 semi auto it will be a FAL, they are awesome
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I don't know about you but the new ruger sr762 has caught my attention. I'm waiting on more range/accuracy reviews before I jump in though.
I'm with you on this.
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