View Full Version : Charging Handle Fitment Issues
Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice tonight. I just unboxed my new Vltor MUR-1A upper receiver and was doing some test fitting with it tonight. It fits very well on my Seekins Precision SP15 lower receiver and my Noveske NSR barrel nut threads on and off nicely. However, my Rainier Arms Raptor ambidextrous charging handle does not fit into the channel in the MUR. I am able to drop it into the cut-out, but I am unable to slide it forward in the groove... It won't budge. To be honest, I'm not even certain it is dropping all the way into the cut-out, and I don't think I should have to use a bunch of force to make it fit. Something is wrong.
I did some quick trouble shooting. The Raptor fits fine in a CMMG upper I have. However, my CMMG "anti-jam" polymer charging handle (made for their .22LR conversion) fits perfectly into the Vltor MUR (and also into the CMMG upper). So I have one charging handle that fits both, and one (the Raptor) that only fits in the CMMG... Which is out of spec, the Raptor or the MUR? Or is there another possibility?
To be clear, I have contacted Vltor, Rainier Arms, Tier One Arms (the retailer I purchased the MUR from), and ROG Tactical (the retailer I purchased the Raptor from), per forum regulations. I am awaiting email responses from all four. I'm just looking for some direction as to what I should be focusing on to try to narrow down the cause of this issue. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
It's hard to say. I think you should actually give someone the opportunity to reply. Did Vltor make some out of spec uppers? Maybe so. Did the charging handles get jacked? Who knows.
Sometimes tolerances aren't very tolerant. You could try other charging handles and do some cross sampling.
I received replies from all four companies. Rainier offered to replace the Raptor if I think it is defective and Vltor offered to arrange for me to send them the MUR and Raptor under warranty for them to try to figure out the issue. No one has ever heard of a customer having a fitment issue with a Raptor and a MUR before.
Unfortunately I don't have any other upper/charging handle combinations to test. Is there any other way to determine if I should send back the Raptor or the MUR?
you don't have any buddies with ar's or maybe a local forum that you can ask someone to meet up with you at a local range just to try it out on their ar?
Not really unless you have MUR's and other handles where you could take measurements and then get an average. I would send everything to Vltor and allow them to check it.
I received replies from all four companies. Rainier offered to replace the Raptor if I think it is defective and Vltor offered to arrange for me to send them the MUR and Raptor under warranty for them to try to figure out the issue. No one has ever heard of a customer having a fitment issue with a Raptor and a MUR before.
Unfortunately I don't have any other upper/charging handle combinations to test. Is there any other way to determine if I should send back the Raptor or the MUR?
Stupid question... Did you get a 5.56 Raptor or a 7.62 Raptor?
elephantrider
11-05-13, 23:26
FWIW, I have 4 MUR-1S receivers with Raptor charging handles in them. They are a tighter fit than in a standard receiver but are able to slide just fine. One or two of them are a little tricky to get through the notch for disassembly, but not impossible.
Stupid question... Did you get a 5.56 Raptor or a 7.62 Raptor?
I ordered a 5.56 Raptor and that is what was listed on my invoice... How would I verify that I was shipped the correct one?
I ordered a 5.56 Raptor and that is what was listed on my invoice... How would I verify that I was shipped the correct one?
It should be obvious. The 7.62 is longer than 5.56 model. All other dimensions should be the same, at least they are on my BCM Gunfighters.
Do you have access to a calipers to take some measurements? Not sure where you're located in WI but if you're close by, you can compare against my MUR & Raptor.
Sent via Tapatalk
It should be obvious. The 7.62 is longer than 5.56 model. All other dimensions should be the same, at least they are on my BCM Gunfighters.
Do you have access to a calipers to take some measurements? Not sure where you're located in WI but if you're close by, you can compare against my MUR & Raptor.
Sent via Tapatalk
It is the 5.56 model then. I gave it a closer look today and noticed that the Raptor is not even seating fully in the groove in the MUR. So, like a dummy I pushed on it to see if maybe it just needed some encouragement to get it into the groove and then all would be well. It went in with a stiff "pop" and then it was good and stuck. I couldn't
slide it back and forth and I couldn't get it out either. 5 minutes with some BreakFree CLP carefully applying pressure to the Raptor to wiggle it back out and I was able to separate the two, but it is WAY too tight. Something's wrong - either the Raptor is too wide or the channel in the MUR is too narrow. I'm leaning toward the Raptor at this point, but I don't really have any concrete evidence as to why. Just a gut feeling I guess.
I live right in the central part of the state, about half an hour west of I-39. If you're in the same general area shoot me a PM and I'll give you a more exact location, maybe we can set something up. Otherwise I'll probably get in touch with Rainier Arms again and see about exchanging the Raptor.
Yeah, we're pretty far from each other. I can take some measurements for you when I get home, if that'll help you out.
Sent via Tapatalk
Yeah, we're pretty far from each other. I can take some measurements for you when I get home, if that'll help you out.
Sent via Tapatalk
That would be great. I should be able to find someone who has a set of calipers this weekend, otherwise I can use the set at work on Monday. Thanks!
I just received a brand new Vltor MUR-1A today and am having a similar problem. I tried using a 4 year old BCM gunfighter mod 4, and had to "snap" it into place. It was then extremely difficult to move until I applied a ton of lube and worked it forward and back a couple dozen times. The anodizing was ground off on two edges along the full length of the charging handle.
I tried a standard charging handle without any problems, so I imagine it's just some tolerance stacking between the MUR and my BCM.
I haven't gotten a chance to take any measurements yet, but I did have time to snap a few pictures today. I'm hoping someone can see something that will determine which component is causing the issue. First 4 pictures below, more to follow.
21315
Wear mark on left side of Raptor - appeared after I got the charging handle stuck in the receiver, so I assume this is the point that is catching
21316
Wear mark on the right side of the Raptor - same as above but on the opposite side
21317
Wear mark on the leading edge of the left "foot" that would hold the Raptor in the channel - also appeared after I got the charging handle stuck in the receiver
21326
Raptor next to a CMMG "anti-jam" polymer charging handle (made for their .22LR conversions)
The following 3 images show that the Raptor will not drop into the channel in the MUR as it is supposed to. It drops in about 3/4 of the way and stops. As I previously mentioned, I did force it all the way in once but all that did was get it stuck. Even if I force it all the way in so it is fully seated in the channel I still cannot move the charging handle.
21327
Raptor inserted as far as possible into MUR - will not fully seat in channel
21328
Gap between Raptor & MUR - Raptor is not fully seated
21329
Raptor does not fit flush in MUR - not fully seated
The following 5 images show that the Raptor fits a CMMG upper receiver, and the CMMG charging handle fits both the CMMG upper receiver and the MUR. The only combination that does not work is the Raptor and the MUR...
21330
Raptor fits flush in a CMMG upper receiver
21331
CMMG charging handle fits flush in a CMMG upper receiver
21332
CMMG charging handle fits flush in the MUR
21333
CMMG charging handle in the MUR - notice there is not a gap like there is with the Raptor
21334
CMMG charging handle fully inserted into the MUR and latched - 100% functional
Why don't you send the handle and the upper to Vltor and let them look? All the time you spent thus far trying to figure it out, they probably would have. I am sure that they can measure it and see what's happening.
I received replies from all four companies. Rainier offered to replace the Raptor if I think it is defective and Vltor offered to arrange for me to send them the MUR and Raptor under warranty for them to try to figure out the issue. No one has ever heard of a customer having a fitment issue with a Raptor and a MUR before.
Unfortunately I don't have any other upper/charging handle combinations to test. Is there any other way to determine if I should send back the Raptor or the MUR?
There is the solution right there. Take them up on the offer.
Don't mean to bump this thread. But I just got a MUR as well and am having this issue with a raptor charging handle. Did you get it resolved?
My issues were resolved by using a newer generation bcm gunfighter handle. For whatever reason my first gen would not work well in the MUR, despite working fine in three other forged uppers.
My issues were resolved by using a newer generation bcm gunfighter handle. For whatever reason my first gen would not work well in the MUR, despite working fine in three other forged uppers.
Interesting. Did you ever try a raptor like badger?
Interesting. Did you ever try a raptor like badger?
I didn't realize until now that you started the thread in the tech section about your MUR and handle problem, which I've been posting in. :)
No, I have only used stock and bcm gunfighter handles.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.