View Full Version : Russian handgun training on tac tv
holy balls.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnhElFxrWRg&feature=share&list=UUBpHxw1HP7ow4oueMxbIj7g
Unfrigginbelievable!!! LAV sounds mighty impressed at the end of the drills. Definitely in the "Don't do this at home" category!
There is a fine line between hardcore and stupidity. I do believe it has been blurred here.
I wonder how often one of them gets Puzikas'd.
I wonder how often one of them gets Puzikas'd.
Funny you mention his name. I attended an AK class he held in northern GA back in 2007. At the end of it some attendees had heard of him doing this certain thing and asked him if he'd do it for them (!). He reluctantly agreed. What this certain thing involved was a student standing downrange and doing mag changes while Puzikas stood about 25 meters or so away and fired past them to the left and right. Guess it was to teach focusing on a task while under pressure.
It was voluntary and I didn't volunteer........
It looks like the soviets have upped the game...:rolleyes: I wonder how the next generation will top this extreme drill? I guess I'll have to wait and see...:suicide:
I wonder how often one of them gets Puzikas'd.
Indeed...
Apparently Mother Russia blesses its children with more guts than brains.
OK the Russians are some crazy SOBs.. Did any one have a med kit!?
Indeed...
Apparently Mother Russia blesses its children with more guts than brains.
It's that Slavic Cretan mentality.
NCPatrolAR
11-07-13, 06:22
The first group of Russians I've seen that look to actually be using their sights and not trying some Systema BS
would love to know what there mind thinks like ? if its really thinking yes this is safe and when done we go drink vodka ?
or if they think OK this proves we are men ?
or what ? cause everything I see from that country does kinda make me want to go live there for a year and try to get some insight to the psyche :)
I was waiting for horseback drills next... Crazy Cossacks.
sandman99and9
11-07-13, 07:29
In mother Russia, trainer shoot you !!
S.M.
JBecker 72
11-07-13, 08:00
In mother Russia, trainer shoot you !!
S.M.
Took way too long to get this comment.
billybronco
11-07-13, 08:10
ok...so, why did my homeboy dump a round into the dirt @ 03:52???
some kind of warning shot?
N.D.?
what the hell?
ok...so, why did my homeboy dump a round into the dirt @ 03:52???
some kind of warning shot?
N.D.?
what the hell?
I caught that, wondered the same thing. ND gets my vote, getting close to the boots!
Edit- watched it a couple more times, it must be on purpose since they went slo-mo. someone that knows, please explain.
The first group of Russians I've seen that look to actually be using their sights and not trying some Systema BS
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!... I use my sights... :(
Maybe a technicality 'cause I'm Ukrainian(American)... but still... :p
I want to see the segment where they practice weak hand shooting due to disabled strong side, wonder if they shoot your arm, stab it, or pound it with a mallet first to make it more realistic :D
Business_Casual
11-07-13, 08:40
There is no mention of how many "human obstacles" end up in hospitals.
RogerinTPA
11-07-13, 08:54
No surprise really. Russians don't give two shits about taking casualties during training. If you get injured, YOUR weaknesses, inabilities, incompetence or stupidity will be called into question... not the person who actually caused the injury or is actually responsible.:dirol:
Voodoo_Man
11-07-13, 08:55
Lots of hate in this thread, pointlessly too, because this is just another aspect of training that we do not see in the US. Pissing all over it because of experience with one instructor (ie; sonny puzikas) is pretty short sighted. You guys think Russia is the only place on the planet that does "confidence" drills?
A little less pissing on other peoples tactics and a little more understanding that different places do things differently, I would have thought a place like M4C would be all about different training then they are used to, guess I was wrong.
Russia is not the only place :)
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm86/JohnLeland1789/Funny/ChineseSoldierHoldsTarget.jpg
Now, really most of the comments are for pure fun. But I do think that kind of training is stupid.
Eurodriver
11-07-13, 09:07
Lots of hate in this thread, pointlessly too, because this is just another aspect of training that we do not see in the US. Pissing all over it because of experience with one instructor (ie; sonny puzikas) is pretty short sighted. You guys think Russia is the only place on the planet that does "confidence" drills?
A little less pissing on other peoples tactics and a little more understanding that different places do things differently, I would have thought a place like M4C would be all about different training then they are used to, guess I was wrong.
This is what I came in here to post.
Dangerous? Yes. But to others, our shoothouses in the U.S. might look just as dangerous. It's all perspective and as real as the threat of ND and friendly fire is on a dynamic range, some level of risk is necessary in order to be adequately trained.
Personally, I wouldn't do this with no-names or in a public class setting but if they were teammates and we trusted our lives on the regular during operations I wouldn't mind doing some of the things in the video.
I will not ever test a ballistic vest for any reason from any gun.
Voodoo_Man
11-07-13, 09:15
This is what I came in here to post.
Dangerous? Yes. But to others, our shoothouses in the U.S. might look just as dangerous. It's all perspective and as real as the threat of ND and friendly fire is on a dynamic range, some level of risk is necessary in order to be adequately trained.
Personally, I wouldn't do this with no-names or in a public class setting but if they were teammates and we trusted our lives on the regular during operations I wouldn't mind doing some of the things in the video.
I will not ever test a ballistic vest for any reason from any gun.
You hit a good point.
These aren't no-namers in some class that just showed up off the street to get "training." Of course this is not exactly standard training and should only be done by niche professionals (a standard of which many on this board do not even understand how to quantify), but yet the hate goes on.
I find it interesting how training procedures and cycles of knowledge change over time. In a few years, if our SF guys are doing these types of drills, who here is going to say they are stupid?
No hate here, just a joke...my only problem was the vest testing....with the money/resources that go into SF/Delta, I would hope our country would draw the line there. Stress testing is crucial imo. I can't speak to SF training, but in martial arts, if you don't spar full contact regularly, your learning will flatline and stop.
I think everybody here understands that this is no standard training, and the people doing it are very qualified.
I still think most of it is stupid, no matter who says what. There are some other ways to do "confidence" drills without risking so much.
You hit a good point.
These aren't no-namers in some class that just showed up off the street to get "training." Of course this is not exactly standard training and should only be done by niche professionals (a standard of which many on this board do not even understand how to quantify), but yet the hate goes on.
I find it interesting how training procedures and cycles of knowledge change over time. In a few years, if our SF guys are doing these types of drills, who here is going to say they are stupid?
Fwiw any insight into said quantification would appreciated. Even if for no other reason than mental stimulation. Links perhaps?
Voodoo_Man
11-07-13, 11:30
Fwiw any insight into said quantification would appreciated. Even if for no other reason than mental stimulation. Links perhaps?
You really think this type of stuff gets published online so the arfcommers of the world can shoot their buddies?
edit; that was harsh, I apologize.
The confidence drills that I have been exposed to are not for general consumption and fall under the OPSEC of LE/MIL.
How the hell would I know I don't shoot people for a living, not like it would stop anyone for doing something stupid anyways.
I was more interested in reading about said niche professionals who for whatever reason need to employ non-standard training methods up to and including shooting each other in order to develop and maintain such competencies and why for technical and I'm guessing psychological reasons this is more advantageous than traditional methods. Once can't exactly access academic databases and read the empirical studies on all of this stuff.
Voodoo_Man
11-07-13, 12:04
How the hell would I know I don't shoot people for a living, not like it would stop anyone for doing something stupid anyways.
I was more interested in reading about said niche professionals who for whatever reason need to employ non-standard training methods up to and including shooting each other in order to develop and maintain such competencies and why for technical and I'm guessing psychological reasons this is more advantageous than traditional methods. Once can't exactly access academic databases and read the empirical studies on all of this stuff.
I am not the person to explain this, so I will just leave it at that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-13, 12:18
I'm not thinking the vest one is an everyday thing.
Just out of curiosity, what would be the difference between a hopped up paint ball gun and a 9mm to a vest? Or heck even simunition. I'm thinking the real key to this is that you take hits but stay in the fight and secondarily that you trust your vest.
At least they use FMJ so that they don't get nasty wounds from hollow-points.......
Bad guys, good guys, hostages- they seem to not mind taking casualties anywhere over there.
xjustintimex
11-07-13, 12:57
ruskies are trolling to get in our heads :D
30 cal slut
11-07-13, 19:11
ok...so, why did my homeboy dump a round into the dirt @ 03:52???
some kind of warning shot?
N.D.?
what the hell?
per LAV it was intentional. crowd control warning shot.
to our stateside guys... a little birdie told me that the alfa guys in that video are reading this forum and very likely this thread.
be nice. :cool:
привет :happy:
Maybe Mr. Vickers could provide some more insight and background on what took place on his show.
MountainRaven
11-07-13, 20:15
Regarding the getting shot by your buddy (to your government-purchased vest) and then putting bullets past his head into a cardboard target….
I seem to recall hearing that Thatcher and her husband once sat in on a shoot house as the SAS cleared it. Complete with the SAS making entry into the room and neutralizing the cardboard threats while Thatcher and husband sat in a couch next to the targets.
Regarding the getting shot by your buddy (to your government-purchased vest) and then putting bullets past his head into a cardboard target….
I seem to recall hearing that Thatcher and her husband once sat in on a shoot house as the SAS cleared it. Complete with the SAS making entry into the room and neutralizing the cardboard threats while Thatcher and husband sat in a couch next to the targets.
When Bush the Elder was VP he was at a Delta demonstration at their shoothouse. He wanted to sit in a room while they came in and cleared targets all around him.
The Secret Service nixxed that idea pretty quick.
When Bush the Elder was VP he was at a Delta demonstration at their shoothouse. He wanted to sit in a room while they came in and cleared targets all around him.
The Secret Service nixxed that idea pretty quick.
I've been under the impression that Delta does in fact use live no-shoots.
As per the video, I don't have an issue with shooting around others, assuming you know the guys and their competency. Shooting the vest thing though, ehhh.....
Not having personal experience with them, the first thing that came to my mind was the shoot houses with the live no shoots that I've read some of our units and the SAS train with. In a certain way, that is more dangerous as you are making entry not knowing where the no shoot is going to be.
I've been under the impression that Delta does in fact use live no-shoots.
I'm sure they do.......just not the VP!
per LAV it was intentional. crowd control warning shot.
to our stateside guys... a little birdie told me that the alfa guys in that video are reading this forum and very likely this thread.
be nice. :cool:
привет :happy:
Still think it's goofy. But whatever works for them.
They do have some cool looking AK's though.
http://i.imgur.com/fJxBGiv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHtk2sa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Q6NdtJq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r89dzVk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YakBAmv.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
11-08-13, 03:15
When Bush the Elder was VP he was at a Delta demonstration at their shoothouse. He wanted to sit in a room while they came in and cleared targets all around him.
The Secret Service nixxed that idea pretty quick.
IIRC in his book Inside Delta Force by founding member Eric Haney, he goes into how Bush was allowed in the killhouse exercise behind ballistic glass. He also described troopers playing the role of the hostage in live fire drills in the killhouse and feeling bullets whiz by their heads.
In the book and feature film Black Hawk Down, this is again brought up when an account is given when the D-Boys and the 75th are having a range day on the beach. Delta members would walk down to change out their targets while their brothers kept firing down range right beside them.
Voodoo_Man
11-08-13, 07:29
Still think it's goofy. But whatever works for them.
They do have some cool looking AK's though.
http://i.imgur.com/fJxBGiv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHtk2sa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Q6NdtJq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r89dzVk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YakBAmv.jpg
Curious as to where you got the images from?
I have participated in numerous confidence drills, and loved them. There is nothing quite like watching the flash of a muzzle head on and knowing the bullet just whizzed past you. The truly scary part is when you are the shooter, and its on you to not shoot someone. Great drills for the skilled shooter.
What I would not want to participate in, and is not testing the confidence of the shooter, but your confidence in your armor is shooting each other in the vest. If the vest fails thats something out of your control, where as not shooting your training partner is 100% in your control.
Curious as to where you got the images from?
From the interwebs yo. Alias training/SSD.
What is that pistol they're using? I think LAV started a thread about it a while back. I tried a search but didn't get any results.
The French GIGN also do the "shoot 'em in the vest" confidence builder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tOqUttMyU
Moose-Knuckle
11-09-13, 17:00
What is that pistol they're using? I think LAV started a thread about it a while back. I tried a search but didn't get any results.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?141885-What-pistols-were-used-in-Tac-TV-episode-48
That is the dumbest shit I've ever seen anyone do on a shooting range. Good grief.
Oh hell no, that has to be the first type of training that I didn't think might be fun to try. I don't even trust myself that much, much less someone else!
Larry Vickers
11-11-13, 05:44
As I expected these episodes would blow viewers minds and I was right !!! The shooting each other in the body armor drill was the one that blew me away - I definately wouldn't do that one myself !! The guys we worked with where good guys and solid pipe hitters ; some of them read M4C and SSD by the way
We had a great time filming the shows and would go back if given the opportunity
Glad you guys like the shows !!
I have no idea what to say.
I just have to think if you got to hang out with them after training like at a BBQ they would be a blast to meet and talk with and hear stories from :)
As I expected these episodes would blow viewers minds and I was right !!! The shooting each other in the body armor drill was the one that blew me away - I definately wouldn't do that one myself !! The guys we worked with where good guys and solid pipe hitters ; some of them read M4C and SSD by the way
We had a great time filming the shows and would go back if given the opportunity
Glad you guys like the shows !!
HighSpeedDreams
03-19-14, 22:32
Lots of hate in this thread, pointlessly too, because this is just another aspect of training that we do not see in the US. Pissing all over it because of experience with one instructor (ie; sonny puzikas) is pretty short sighted. You guys think Russia is the only place on the planet that does "confidence" drills?
A little less pissing on other peoples tactics and a little more understanding that different places do things differently, I would have thought a place like M4C would be all about different training then they are used to, guess I was wrong.
Couldn't agree more. Suggesting that the drill(s) itself has no merit simply because it doesn't fit into our idea(s) of what training should (and in this case for so many, should not) be is somewhat flawed. The risks and safety concerns are valid and irrefutable. However, If those involved believe the rewards of this type of training to be not only a necessity, but also worth the risk, good on 'em.
I have nothing but respect for the skills they displayed.
As I expected these episodes would blow viewers minds and I was right !!! The shooting each other in the body armor drill was the one that blew me away - I definately wouldn't do that one myself !! The guys we worked with where good guys and solid pipe hitters ; some of them read M4C and SSD by the way
We had a great time filming the shows and would go back if given the opportunity
Glad you guys like the shows !!
LAV, can't thank you enough for exposing us to this. It's been difficult having any conversation, other than one about this video, at the range since the thing was posted. Whether people are open-minded or vehemently against it and shun it on contact, its been an excellent catalyst for discussions about the need to consistently attend training that gets us out of our comfort zone. Well done.
Magic_Salad0892
03-19-14, 23:38
No issue with the confidence drills as long as I knew/trusted the shooters, or knew that they met my personal qualifications. Don't the US Army/Marine Corps do this in certain kinds of training?
I'd have no issue walking downrange with LAV, or Kyle Defoor lighting up targets next to me.
But I likely wouldn't have the same confidence if it was James Yeager, or Sonny Puzikas.
The vest thing is too risky for me, IMO. Though I wouldn't mind testing issued vests on dummies or something. Just not on people.
I look at it this way. They are professionals. Their mission very easily could put them into these types of situations. They train to function at an elite level in those situations and obviously they have no qualms about doing so. As a few others have said these guys aren't off the street Joes in a basic handgun class. If any of us had spent the number of hours training as these guys do together we wouldn't think anything of what they are doing.
Nightvisionary
03-20-14, 08:09
Leave it to the Russians to take Happy Gilmore to the next level.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3089553/happy-gilmore-batting-cage-o.gif
These drills aren't crazy. Electing a Kenyan Douchebag who's reignited the cold war by asserting his weakness is TRUE CRAZY!
From the interwebs yo. Alias training/SSD.
SSD? I know Alias but.....?
Magic_Salad0892
03-20-14, 17:24
SSD? I know Alias but.....?
Soldier Systems Daily.
alienb1212
03-20-14, 20:52
OK the Russians are some crazy SOBs.. Did any one have a med kit!?
I def saw one of those cranial TQs right on each belt.
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