View Full Version : Your Training "Short List"
Jay Cunningham
05-05-08, 04:17
Who is on your "short list" of individuals/organizations you'd most like to train with in the near future? Please keep it to your top 3 in no particular order...
mine:
MagPul Dynamics
TigerSwan
Paul Howe/CSAT
Pat Rogers
Larry Mudgett
John Chapman
Assuming you're talking carbine since this is "m4carbine.net".
Magpul Dynamics.
I had an SDI handgun class with Travis and Eric, and Costa showed up for day 3. They all worked very well together and I'm looking forward to seeing them all again. A different take on what I'm used to which I think is a good thing.
Vickers.
Just because. He seems to have a very loyal following among those that train with him and I'd like to see why.
Jeff Gonzales.
Didn't know much about him until I joined the Tricon/EAG alumni forum. Really like his thought process on stuff and I've been fortunate enough to have a large group of shooters that I've pressed into service to test some of his points, and they've all proven true. I hear he's a no bullshit kinda guy which I also like.
NCPatrolAR
05-05-08, 06:17
Is this for people we've yet to train with?
Jay Cunningham
05-05-08, 06:18
Is this for people we've yet to train with?
Correct.
NCPatrolAR
05-05-08, 07:08
Super Dave
Louis Awerbuck
Tigerswan
Limited specifically to people I've never trained with off the top of my head ...
MagPul/Travis & co.
USSA (though I've trained for and/or with some of their instructors)
Mid-South
MadcapMagician
05-05-08, 10:37
Rogers Shooting School
Paul Howe
Wayne Dobbs
05-05-08, 10:45
Paul Howe (later this year if all goes well)
Rogers Shooting School
Scott Reitz
I'd like to test LAV's skills some day. :D
Sidewinder6
05-05-08, 11:12
Of the commercial trainers
Travis
Tiger Swan
Vickers
Rogers
Trident (if he ever locates the SE US again)
Harrington (ditto)
NCPatrolAR
05-05-08, 11:41
Of the commercial trainers
Travis
Tiger Swan
Vickers
Rogers
Trident (if he ever locates the SE US again)
Harrington (ditto)
Jeff is supposed to be in NC in the last quarter of the year. I do believe he is slotted to teach his carbine course out in Albemarle.
I'd like to test LAV's skills some day. :D
skills or patience?
;)
No particular order
Magpul/Travis
Pat Rogers (missed two classes I have tried to make work - but leave keeps shifting)
CSAT/Paul Howe
Viking Tactics/Kyle Lamb
No particular order:
Pat Rogers (have one scheduled when I redeploy)
Louis Awerbuck
Paul Howe
Randy Cain
Magpul
Tigerswan
Spartan Tactical
Trident
Viking Tactics
30 cal slut
05-05-08, 13:08
i'm going to have to start whoring myself to pay for all the training i want to attend.
Jay Cunningham
05-05-08, 13:45
Who is on your "short list" of individuals/organizations you'd most like to train with in the near future? Please keep it to your top 3 in no particular order...
:D
Thanks for the responses - looks like Travis will be getting some business!
skills or patience?
;)
If and when you take a Vickers or Dave Harrington's class, you will experience this: "Dude, you're testing my skills". :) It may be a good thing, or it may be a bad thing, it just depends.
NCPatrolAR
05-05-08, 14:00
I'm lucky in that I have had the oppertunity to train with a lot of people and have already established my go-to list of trainers that I like working with. There are very few people out there that I havent trained with that I have a burning desire to take a course from. Of the 3 I listed, only Awerbuck is a "must train with"
NCPatrolAR
05-05-08, 14:03
If and when you take a Vickers or Dave Harrington's class, you will experience this: "Dude, you're testing my skills". :) It may be a good thing, or it may be a bad thing, it just depends.
especially if you are free-lancing
Sidewinder6
05-05-08, 14:31
Jeff is supposed to be in NC in the last quarter of the year. I do believe he is slotted to teach his carbine course out in Albemarle.
Thanks. Noted.
Mudgett, Rogers and Gonzales, in no particular order.
Jeff Gonzales, I've met him and was impressed but have yet to take a class with him.
Scott Reitz: can't get my schedule to work out despite trying for the last 2 years :(
Kyle Lamb, heard only good things and even more interested after reading his book.
Henk Iverson
www.striketactical.com
In this order:
1. VICKERS- Everything ive read and heard about the guy is fantastic. hes got experience that cannot be topped and a great personality to boot. brutally honest but very informative....right up my alley!
2. Blackwater- Top of the line facilities and great instructors as well as a plethora of courses to choose from. Im getting ready to go to the Police Academy and the type of training they offer is perfect.
3. USSA- again, top of the line facilities and great instructors.
IrishDevil
05-05-08, 20:42
Off the top of my head:
Pat Rogers
Magpul/Travis
CSAT/Paul Howe
John Farnam/DTI
Rogers Shooting School
Randy Cain
Kyle Lamb (been on my list since before people "discovered" him)
TJ Pilling/Tiger Valley
Lagadelphia
05-05-08, 22:05
Paul Howe (Going this fall)
Pat Rogers
Larry Vickers.
If I could gaically make the money appear and the classes available it'd be
Awerbuck-shotgun
DTI/farnam-Tactical Treatment of Gunshot Wounds
Rogers shooting school-pistol class
Keep in mind this is because I've already did Larry's Ak class and as of next week the low light I, otherwise somebody'd be getting bumped. ;p
Year after, again money willing
A precision rifle class
carbine-carbine/pistol class- harrington or rogers probably
and would be nice to get one of vickers armorer or smithing class
Keep in mind alot of people's listed choices might not reflect what they consider their best choices, (not that these aren't all great one's listed) but because they already hit their first choices due to frequency of need or use, or limitation of funds, and are now rounding out which directly reflects all my listed choices.
Larry Vickers
Kyle Lamb
Brian Searcy
Bennie Cooley...again...
LMS Defense...oh, wait, I work for them... well anyway...
Return to Blackwater and use their excellent facilities
The Archangel
05-13-08, 09:16
Paul Howe
Travis Haley
Larry Vickers
Matt Edwards
05-13-08, 11:24
I've seen a bunch of guys here mention Travis Haley. I just got the chance to train with both he and Cris Costa this week end. I told them both that I couldn't have differentiated between them and a can of paint last thursday. I recomend them both, HIGHLY. I'm looking forward to haveing them take me out of my comfort zone again.
Bring foot gear you can run in and stretch before hand.
The other instructors I'd recomend or would like to attend classes with, have already been mentioned.
Matt
Gutshot John
05-13-08, 11:39
Kyle Lamb
Pat Rogers
In that order.
This topic made think ... what about listing instructors that you will never patronize again? I doubt if that kind of discussion would be well-received on some forums, and probably not here either, but it could be useful to people who are shopping.
Larry Vickers
Brian Searcy/Tiger Swan
Bennie Cooley
LMS Defense :D
Jay Cunningham
05-13-08, 18:20
Well, you LMS guys certainly aren't shy.
:rolleyes:
NCPatrolAR
05-14-08, 01:29
This topic made think ... what about listing instructors that you will never patronize again? I doubt if that kind of discussion would be well-received on some forums, and probably not here either, but it could be useful to people who are shopping.
I'm game. You just have to insure that people put why they wont work with someone again.
Well, you LMS guys certainly aren't shy.
:rolleyes:
Shy? Well....no....
Able to have a bit of fun laugh at ourselves....yep. :D
You guys crack me up!! What is holding you back from training with TigerSwan?? We just did a 3 day class last week. Call or email me and we can get a class that works for you guys. You will NOT BE SORRY!!
My short list of guys I haven't trained with?? Paul Howe is the only one that I am commited to train with this year. Jimmy Smith is on my radar as well. I've got my eye on a few others but we'll see how things go.
For me, and this is my personal view for MY training, there are only certain instructors that I see helping me along MY path.
Later,
NCPatrolAR
05-14-08, 17:35
You guys crack me up!! What is holding you back from training with TigerSwan??
$425 BALCS armor, Eagle CIRAS, and upcoming classes with Bill Jeans, LAV, and Ken Hackathorn immeidately come to mind. ;)
I all seriousness, I'm trying to work out making it down there for one of Brian's classes this year.
Jay Cunningham
05-14-08, 19:44
You guys crack me up!! What is holding you back from training with TigerSwan??
A LAV AK class, an ADH piston upper, and a LAV/Hack LL Level 2 come to mind for this year...
Like I said, TS is on my short list - next year may happen.
:cool:
Larry Vickers
05-14-08, 20:19
There are many good instructors on the market (I am glad that many include me in that list - thank you very much) and I don't want to pick favorites but I would highly recommend training with the following individuals (as well as myself If you get the chance);
Ken Hackathorn
Rob Leatham (greatest pistol shooter that ever lived - he does not
teach tactics - just shooting)
Paul Howe
Brian Searcy
Like I said there are many good instructors and I don't mean to say these are the only ones but they are ones that I can personally recommend - we all may teach things a lttle different but rest assured your training dollar is well spent with any one of us
be safe
LAV
Doe Rob Leatham conduct training very often? I checked his sight but there doesn't seem to be much listed. I think that would be a great opportunity if one was able to catch a class of his. Anyone have any experience training with Rob Leatham?
After the class I just got back from, those of you that have listed Louis Awerbuck in your list should definitely make training with him a priority. If you have a chance to train with him and miss it you're really cheating yourself. He'll fire 1/2 to 1/4 the rounds of some of the blasting classes of late, but you will learn something with every single round fired and you will be a better shooter with each of those rounds as well.
I'll be updating my AAR with more pics and vids over the course of the weekend (although with the atmosphere here lately I'm sure they will be critiqued and disected :rolleyes: ).
SIMPLYDYNAMIC
05-17-08, 13:14
Doe Rob Leatham conduct training very often? I checked his sight but there doesn't seem to be much listed. I think that would be a great opportunity if one was able to catch a class of his. Anyone have any experience training with Rob Leatham?
Blake,
I Know Robbie doent really advertise, but does a 1 day a week or so class at Usery range in AZ. Might want to try calling there especially if your in the area.
Leatham sometimes does a one-day (no extra cost) class in conjunction with the Single Stack Classic/USPSA Single Stack Nationals.
If you're interested in pistol shooting and gun handling skills, Jerry Barnhart and Todd Jarrett are two that anyone should consider, albeit it's tough to find a Barnhart class that you can do if you do not have a badge or are military.
John_Wayne777
05-17-08, 13:51
Am I the only one who glanced at the thread title and initially read it as "Training short bus"???
If so, what does that say about me?
If I have to pick 3 without regard to such things as whether or not I've trained with them before, I'd say:
1. Larry Vickers
2. Ken Hackathorn
3. Travis Haley
I've taken three classes from Mr. Vickers, and I'm signed up for four more of his courses this year. (He's gonna be pretty sick of looking at me by the end of 2008) He's done more to improve my accuracy and mindset than any other instructor I've had....and I've had some damned good ones, folks. LAV holds you accountable for every round you fire...which does wonders for improving accuracy.
I've had the opportunity to train with Ken twice as a part of the Vickers/Hackathorn low light classes. He's a great instructor and I'd absolutely love to get into a pistol course with him....the snag is that I just don't know how as his courses don't seem to be as widely known about.
Travis' posts here have always provided interesting information and if he ever makes it up to my general area I'd definitely be interested in getting into class with him to get his take on things.
If it's people I've never trained with before:
1. Paul Howe
2. Travis Haley
3. Don't know
Submariner
05-17-08, 18:30
Louis Awerbuck-Shotgun
Jeff Gonzales
Bill Jeans
being recently single again this year I made a commitment to myself to go to at least 4 classes with distance from home and cost not being an issue. I down for 2 LAV classes in the fall and am still looking into some more,maybe one this summer and one at the end of the year. If I can get more time off I'll do more. as for my short list:
1.Magpul Dynamics
2.Pat Rogers
3.TigerSwan
Thats a short list cause in reality I have a long one made up. :D
I'd really like to take one of Dean Caputo's classes.
abnartyguy
06-05-08, 03:34
Gent's,
Lets see, I've taken some of these guys already.
Vickers; Low Light II
Paul Howe, anything
Searcy(aka Tigerswan); anything
Kyle Lamb; ?
Can anyone think of anyone else i'm missing from that background? later!
-Zef M.:cool:
...I've been very lucky and have trained with Frank Garcia and Manny Bragg a couple times each. I'ts been all pistol, though. I'd like to take a rifle and/or Instructor class with either one.
Ted Puente and Petros Milionis are both full-time coppers, USPSA GM's, and up-and-comers in the training arena. I've trained with both and would do so again.
I took a class with Pat Rogers last year and hope to take one again. Really opened my eyes to a lot of things.
Jeff Gonzales, Larry Vickers, Bennie Cooley and Matt Burkett are all on my list.
Spartan Tactical / Jim Smith - again
Pat Rogers
Jeff Gonzalez - Trident.
Hilton Yam/Tim Lau 10-8 Boys - again
Those Magpul boys
Lynn Freshly
06-07-08, 02:50
Doe Rob Leatham conduct training very often? I checked his sight but there doesn't seem to be much listed. I think that would be a great opportunity if one was able to catch a class of his. Anyone have any experience training with Rob Leatham?
Blake,
I have trained with Rob Leatham on two occassions. My advice is if you get a chance don't pass it up. He will push your pistol skills and help show you how to improve. But the recommendation from LAV should tell you something.
Lynn
Army Chief
06-07-08, 11:33
In alphabetical order, I'd say Kyle, Larry, Pat, and Travis -- though realistically, I'll probably be doing well to go 2 for 4 after I finally I hit U.S. shores again.
Chief
Submariner
06-07-08, 15:15
Can anyone think of anyone else i'm missing from that background? later!
-Zef M.:cool:
Dean Caputo. No one teaches what he does.
Wayne Dobbs
06-10-08, 16:40
Submariner and Barbara,
I'm still looking for students for the Caputo AR class in the Dallas area in July. You guys jump on board!
WD
thetallengineer
06-10-08, 17:45
Larry Vickers
Paul Howe
Jeff Gonzales
Luckily Paul and Jeff are both based in Texas.
My short list for carbine is:
*Pat Rogers
*Greg "Sully" Sullivan
*Paul Howe
For pistol:
*Larry Vickers
*Rob Pincus
*Henk Iverson
shooter521
06-19-08, 09:58
My short list:
Bill Jeans/Morrigan Consulting - Advanced Handgun
Louis Awerbuck - Handgun/Carbine, Handgun Problem Solver, or Carbine Instructor
Magpul Dynamics - Handgun or Carbine
The first two have the advantage of having a local gig every year (thanks, Sheriff Ken!); I'll probably get at least one of those done in 2009. Hopefully, Magpul Dynamics will expand its list of venues in the years to come and offer more stuff in the midwest (i.e. within driving distance). Working two jobs and having a 2-year-old son makes a trip to FL/AZ/TX next to impossible.
Only one on my list...
Blackwater :cool:
JDurr
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Matt Edwards
06-29-08, 10:30
Because I didn't see them mentioned;
Jim Smith
Pat McNamara
I don't know if McNamara does civey classes yet. He is the polar opposite of Smith. Smith is very mellow and laid back. Although, for the most part, I was only able to observe, Mac teaches like he can't contain the information he has for another second. He is very intense.
Short term, hopefully:
Marty Hayes
Pat Rogers
GLOCKMASTER
06-29-08, 18:35
In no specific order.
LAV
Magul Dynamics
Brian Searcy aka Tiger Swan
Jim Smith aka Spartan Tactical
Paul Howe
Bill Rogers -For a second time around.
Jeff Gonzales aka Trident Concepts
It was hard...how about 5 next time?/ here goes:
Pat Rogers..a friend of a friend and a fellow New York Gunslinger
Larry Vickers..want to take that 1911 Operators Course and Larry sounds cool like Pat
Paul Howe..get me up to speed with the Ar I just ordered
Hell, here's my remaining TWO for a TOP 5:
Clint Smith...ThunderRanch and a wealth of knowledge
Louis Awerbuck...heard great things and enjoy his SWAT Magazine column
;) ;) ;) :D :D
Pat Rogers-Online for this year
Paul Howe
Larry Vickers
Scott Reitz
Clint Smith ( I was at TR in April of 2004 before he moved. Despite the ammo restrictions and logistical issues of Oregon, I would still like to a class from the Principal of a given school.)
Randy Cain
CarlosDJackal
07-28-08, 08:58
Current "short" list:
- Pat Rogers (scheduled to attend his course in August)
- Paul Howe
- Kyle Lamb
- Dave Harrington
- Dave Pennington
- Southnarc
- Clint Smith
- Louis Awerbuck
There are others, but am drawing a blank right now....
Southnarc
TriCon
Awerbuck
30 cal slut
07-28-08, 14:07
I've trained with LAV (and by extension David Harrington) and Ken Hackathorn.
Does Dave Harrington maintain a training schedule?
Has anyone here evaluated Storm Mountain? I've heard good things about them too.
Not quite "tactical," but I would also recommend Massad Ayoob for the armed citizen interested in the judicious use of lethal force.
Steve Moses
07-28-08, 19:53
Pat Rogers (taking his Carbine Operator course in September 2008)
Randy Cain
Larry Vickers
Scott Reitz
Ordered a Cardinal Armory 6.8 SPR, will repeat the Tiger Valley Defensive Dedicated Marksmanship with it.
I've been fortunate to train with most of the really good trainers out there but I'll be taking Pat Rogers Carbine course with Steve in September. I would like to train with Kyle Lamb sometime.
Great thread. I subscribed a while back, but have to say something now.
You know what would be the cat's ass here? Links. ;)
Some are easy, and I can remember the URL just by hearing their name (Pat/EAG, LAV, etc).
But some of the others....... a little harder to find.
Thanks again, guys, for all the ideas.
I'm trying to do this without having to travel so much, but eventually my wife is going to hunt down and kill each and every one of you.
Jay Cunningham
08-04-08, 14:56
Great thread. I subscribed a while back, but have to say something now.
You know what would be the cat's ass here? Links. ;)
:rolleyes:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3081
:rolleyes:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3081
Thanks, sincerely.
I saw the sticky, but the thread title never clicked with me as to what was inside.
Bill Jeans
Scott Reitz
Pat Rogers
I’ll continue to train with John Farnam. In addition I hope to attend classes with:
Pat Rogers – Pat was recommended to me by a trusted training partner who took a carbine class form Pat.
Kyle Lamb - I loved his book and his methodology makes great sense to me.
Clint Smith - Clint Smith, like John Farnam has been a successful trainer for a long time and there is a reason for that.
Well, I can now cross Louis Awerbuck off of my list (although I'd embrace any opportunity to train with him again).
Short list (3) of folks I haven't trained with but would like to is now:
Pat Rogers (looking to rectify this in Q1 or Q2 of 2009)
Larry Vickers (same as above)
Jeff Gonzales (unsure)
Thanks again for this thread (and the heads-up on the tacked thread).
decodeddiesel
11-12-08, 10:39
Well the only training which I have been through is what I received is the .mil training I received, and the line share of it was while I was in the 101st. Clearly the most painful and telling "training" is the baptism by fire we all received the first time we were engaged by the enemy in Iraq. Aside from that though, the massive ramp up we did prior to our second deployment was the best training I have ever received. NCOs in my unit were very luckily as there was a small trial program we had on base to have the more skilled and experienced 5th SFG guys come over and conduct a "train the trainers" course with the regular line NCOs. I really enjoy working with the SF guys as they respected us for having already done one tour, and guided us in using the lessons learned to be more proficient in our next. Had I staying in the Army I probably would have persued a career with the SF.
Anyway I digress, because of the favorable training I received from the SF guys, LAV is an obvious choice and is very high on my list for carbine and pistol. I am also very interested in a Magpul dynamics class for carbine, pistol, or shotgun.
shooter521
11-21-08, 08:27
Update to my list... my 2009 dance card is starting to fill!
1) Magpul Dynamics - Dynamic Carbine 1 - May 2009
Even though this is billed as a "basic" course, I am really looking forward to it, if only to get exposure to a different instructor/PoV/methodology with regard to the carbine. It will be interesting to compare this course with others I've taken previously, and see what I can adapt from it into my personal TTPs.
2) Pat Rogers/EAG Tactical - Pistol Level 2 - July 2009
This kills two birds with one stone for me; I wanted to get back to some pistol instruction next year, since I've spent the past few years focusing on the carbine and other skill sets. I also wanted to train with EAG again, since I always learn something and have a good time in Pat's courses. I didn't think I would get the chance in '09, then he announced this course, and in my own backyard to boot! It's like it was meant to be... ;)
I could probably still shoehorn a third course in the fall; we'll see what pops up.
Jay Cunningham
11-21-08, 08:30
I honestly did not know that Pat Rogers taught anything other than carbine.
shooter521
11-21-08, 09:10
I honestly did not know that Pat Rogers taught anything other than carbine.
While the carbine courses (including the 3-day operators course, the AK variant of same, and the 4-day tactical course) remain EAG's bread and butter, it looks like Pat is starting to branch out. He has added Level 1 and Level 2 Pistol courses beginning next year, as well as a 2-day Basic Carbine course.
Of course, these are just the "open" courses; I have no idea what sorts of training EAG might provide for its .mil and .gov contract clients. Pat and his AIs certainly have a diverse enough experience base on which to draw.
Pat taught the pistol portion of the ITOG Urban Conflict Resolution course for a few years; I liked what I saw there. His pistol methodology seems to mesh very well with what I was initially taught and have been practicing for the last decade or so.
1) Threat Solutions Group - "Basic Rifle"
2) Threat Solutions Group - "Basic Pistol"
3) Bushido Tactical - "Defensive Rifle"
-B
I would like to take a couple more classes with LAV.
I also would like to take a class with Tigerswan.
I took Jeff Gonzales's of Tricon Concepts* CP-1 pistol course last fall at Sig. The course is 8am to 5pm (with a very short break for lunch) over two days and approx 1,500 rnds. This was a great all around foundational combat handgun course that pushes your equipment and skill hard. Jeff is a great teacher and no BS individual, and I was happy I didn't embarrass myself at his course.
At around 1000rnds, the slide release lever on my 1911 broke, so it would not lock back when it was empty. Had to run it that way 'til the break, then went to a back up (gotta have a backup for such courses!) and was GTG from there.
I have heard complaints about ACT-mags and their crappy base plates. I never had any issues with them, but they were being dropped on dirt at the IDPA matches I competed in vs concrete. I had 3 ACT mags hit the concrete floor during this course, and the base plates completely shattered with springs flying, etc.
Only got my ass chewed out once, which is a record for me...
Course was an A+ for me, and I suspect everyone who attended, mostly LEO it seemed. My hands are sore as shi$, one gun is broke, down 3 mags, my back hurts, and it was all worth it.
If Jeff comes to your area, or within range (2 guys drove 7 hours up from Jersey) take a course with Jeff, you won't be sorry.
* = www.tridentconcepts.com
I hope to take courses with Larry V, more from Jeff G, Black Water, and others. Too bad uncle Sam or some dept is not covering the $$$$ for such learning....
Suarez
Farnam
Vladimir Vasiliev (H2H)
maybe Yeager
This spring/summer, I'll be attending Tactical Handgun through Defensive Edge and Dynamic Carbine through Magpul Dynamics. Can't wait!
Littlelebowski
02-17-09, 20:58
Todd, Long Range International, and Magpul Dynamics.
In no real order.
Larry Vickers because of the knowledge and experience that he has and would bring to the class. And in a round about way he got me interested in "tinkering" with 1911's.
U.S. Training Center because they seem to have good facilities and variety of courses.
Basically, anyone who won't be a waste of my time and money.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.