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ckk1106
05-05-08, 22:43
Does anyone know the minimum and maximum about of this powder for 55 grain 223 bullets? Specifically Hornaday FMJ/BT. I can't seem to find any info on it. Thanks

PALADIN-hgwt
05-05-08, 22:47
xxxxx

toddackerman
05-06-08, 07:10
I use 24 Gns. with a WW SRP.

markm
05-06-08, 08:54
24.5 grains has been an amazing load for me.

But if you google it you can find the various loads for all of the ramshot powders.

ckk1106
05-06-08, 10:14
Thanks for the info on the link. That makes it easy. I've just started reloading for the 223, and have been using IMR4895. I've read a lot of good things about the ramshot tac here, so I think I'll try it. Also, its cheaper. Thanks.

skyugo
05-07-08, 16:49
i've been using 26 grains with 55 grain hornady FJMBT bullets. i get just a hair under 3000 FPS with my 16" 1 in 7 middy.
accuracy is decent.

markm
05-08-08, 08:37
i've been using 26 grains with 55 grain hornady FJMBT bullets. i get just a hair under 3000 FPS with my 16" 1 in 7 middy.
accuracy is decent.

Why so hot?

boltcatch
05-08-08, 14:58
Good question. I'd been trying out different loads and am currently on 25.6 grains... I may well just back it off a full grain since I mostly use 55gr for cheap fun, now.

markm
05-08-08, 15:13
I may well just back it off a full grain since I mostly use 55gr for cheap fun, now.

Let us know how it works. TAC behind the Hornady FMJBT w/c bulk bullets is as accurate a load as I've ever shoot in bulk ammo.

toddackerman
05-08-08, 21:42
Let us know how it works. TAC behind the Hornady FMJBT w/c bulk bullets is as accurate a load as I've ever shoot in bulk ammo.

I agree. Plus you'll save needless wear and tear on your rifle.

boltcatch
10-17-08, 17:07
I've been playing around with Hornady 75gr OTM's lately - 22 grains of TAC, seated to mag length with CCI #41 primers. They're chronoing 2450 to 2495 out of my 16" barrel.

I can't tell if it's just me or if it's just not a very good load, but I couldn't seem to do better than 6" at 200 yards with my 3x ACOG yesterday. With the can on it opened up to about 8". Groups at 100 yards weren't so hot either, but I don't have the targets here.

The surprise, however, was when I pulled out some of my leftover 55gr loads - the ones using 25.6 grains of TAC, mixed headstamp brass and cheapo 55gr bulk Winchester FMJ's. I shot one 6 round string (suppressed) at the head of one of my 200 yard targets just to chrono them, and got 3 3/8" center to center, strung mostly in a vertical direction.

I'm still going to try downloading them a bit given the good results people have reported, but if I keep getting that sort of performance in general I may just stick to the 55gr projectiles.

I'll be trying 24.5 grains with the 55gr FMJ as well as some other 75gr loads tomorrow.

skyugo
10-17-08, 17:49
Why so hot?

makes the steel plates ding louder :o

i've actually backed it down to 25.5 lately. my logic is that i'll get closer to 5.56 nato ballistics with a relatively hot load.
i've heard of people using 27 grains, but i'd have to work up to that real slow.

Damascus
10-17-08, 18:18
Haven't you looked at Ramshot's website? http://www.ramshot.com/powders/
Look at the "load guide" on the left side of the site. It's a .pdf file, so you'll need to have acrobat reader installed to view it.
That's where I got my starting point for loading TAC w/ 69 Sierra Matchkings. Good luck!

toddackerman
10-17-08, 18:24
Out of my 16" barrel. the heavier bullets prefer WW748 Ball over TAC. The 55 GN bullets like both.

Go figure.

Kurt Reifert
10-20-08, 08:40
I also use the 24.5 grains TAC w/55 grain projectile and it's the best general purpose/training load I've found.

For heavier bullets, I use VV N140. Results are outstanding.
A little pricey, but if I'm shooting 77 grainers, I'm not shooting cheap anyhow.

markm
10-20-08, 08:55
I also use the 24.5 grains TAC w/55 grain projectile and it's the best general purpose/training load I've found.

Same here. I had a guy telling me I should try one of the other Ramshot powders since I'm shooting 55 grainers.

Why? Are you nuts? There's NO downside to the 24.5 grain load. It's accurate, cheap, and runs great in all my guns from Rifle to SBR.

RNGRPOPO
10-28-08, 08:20
I have used 24.5 grns of Ram Tac and had execellent results. I agree with everyone else here. It is a great powder not dirty and inexpensive. I have loaded many rounds with it and it works great.

markm
10-28-08, 08:39
It's the official hand load of M4carbine.net! :)

bullseye
11-04-08, 21:38
i'm gonna listen to you guys, just ordered 8 #s of tac from natchez shooting supply for 104$ plus 20$haz-mat, comparable to local prices of varget. gonna try it with 55 gr rem hp, and fmj. hope to give yall a good report, not exactly looking for extreme accuracy, just good m4 plinkering rounds.

m4fun
11-05-08, 20:33
I built up some nice 62gr loads and wanted more plinking loads with components I had lying around. Since I actually had range duty yesterday and it is usually totally dead in the mornings - I had made several batches of Ramshot handloads with pulled 55gr surplus, range pickup brass that I sized and trimmed to be uniform, etc, etc.

50-55 degrees, overcast skies and that day of infamy.

My loads were from 24.0 - 26.0gr Ramshot in .5gr increments - used a Remington LTR bolt gun to minimize external variables.

2 Best loads were determined by both low average deviation and more importantly, groups at 100yds:

24.5 RS - Avg vel 2863
25.5 RS - Avg vel 3073

I used some S&B as a base: Avg vel 3183 and the avg deviation was great than the aforementioned loads and still did not group as tightly - but that could have been me :)

thmpr
11-06-08, 00:40
Magic number....24.5 grains. It is on the lower end of the scale which is perfect for all around use.

markm
11-06-08, 07:07
Here's what Innocent_bystander (from TOS) emailed me.....



24.5 grains seems light. Quickload says it will only yield 2675 out of a 16" barrel. The case is also only 89% full and 87% of the powder is burned.

25.5 grains should yield 2790 out of a 16" barrel with 89% of the powder burned.

A load is not considered efficient unless it burns 95% of the powder. That's why I thought the faster X-Terminator looked better on paper.

I'm not so much concerned with velocity because this is practice ammo that is ridiculously accurate... But here you have it.

markm
11-06-08, 08:04
More data.


Using 55 gr Hornady FMJs.

24.5 gr of TAC out of a 20" barrel yields 2845 fps with 90% burned.

26.0 grains of TAC out of a 20" barrel yields 3022 fps with 93% burned. This has the case filled to 94% and is still only 46,300 psi. You could even go hotter.

The Sierra manual shows using up to 26.3 grains of TAC under 55s.

sandpacker21
11-08-08, 17:04
Best thing about Ramshot is its about 40 bucks cheaper than Varget for an 8lb can... At least around my neck of the woods it is.

boltcatch
11-08-08, 22:02
25.6gr TAC
bulk Winchester 55gr FMJ
mixed headstamp brass
CCI 400 primers

16" Sabre midlength barrel, 1/7 chrome lined
Vltor VIS-2
TA33R-8 (3x, chevron)
Ops Inc 15th model suppressor

off of a bipod, 200 yards, 5 shots. (haha, make that 6. I can't count) Intended POI was the center of the head.

I'm happy with it; could probably do better.

I shot the rounds just to chrono them, but they didn't register correctly.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/boltcatch/group.jpg

sandpacker21
11-09-08, 13:07
Looks like you kepted climbing or dropping. Where you flintching any? Either way Id say 200 yards that is still great shooting. Bye the way I love that color on your weapon.:D

boltcatch
11-09-08, 14:04
I doubt I was flinching with the can and all, but a portion of my attention was going towards not shooting my chrony, so... I'll see how it goes next time.

I have a bunch of rounds loaded up with 24.5 grains, as well, that I'm waiting to hit the 200 yard line with. I'm also going to try a bag to rest under the clubfoot.

bullseye
11-09-08, 18:39
i haven't loaded any rounds with tac yet,,, will yall get this worked out what is the best load before i do??? i've been using varget [main powder]. imr4895, aa2520, and aa2460 as my main .223 powders, bought 8 lbs of tac upon yall's advice. looked through my sinclair's "chrono results" book today,,, some of my groups with 2460 and 69gr smk were 1-hole at 100yds---- but that was from a heavy barre CLE. [krieger barrel] also had good velocity. frank white recommends aa2460 with 60 gr sierra hp. i'm gonna too.

jglenn
11-18-08, 10:29
anyone have any luck with TAC and the 109 projectiles?

markm
11-18-08, 10:40
anyone have any luck with TAC and the 109 projectiles?

TAC is really suited better for the heavier stuff. I have some ss109s, but haven't tried to build a good load yet because I don't want to mess with my bullet seating die.

m4fun
11-19-08, 23:09
For SS109 - pulled bullets and again range pickup brass. I used loads from 24 to 26 in .5gr increments. This was done in Oct - temp was in the 60s nice day. Rifle was a 20" scoped Remington LTR, 1/9 twist. The two TAC loads that were most consistant:

25.0gr RS - Avg vel 2926
25.5gr RS - Avg vel 2992(most accurate at 100yds)

I also included some factory SS109 - S&B, Lake City and Royal Ordinance:
S&B - Avg vel 3036
LC - Avg vel 3055
RORD - Avg vel 3095(most accurate at 100yds)

Brian

jglenn
11-20-08, 06:15
perfect

thanks

Telperion
11-24-08, 15:44
This is my load data for SS109 and TAC:

7/5/08 10:30 AM, Chabot Range, 75 deg F
Rifle: 16" AR-15 type, midlength gas
Bullet: 62gr SS109 bullets w/c from Wideners
Primer: CCI #41
Brass: mixed LC
2.250" COAL
Each load tested with a 20 round string

TAC 25.0 gr
mean = 2846
standard dev = 17.7
min = 2813
max = 2875

TAC 25.5 gr
mean = 2912
standard dev = 21.3
min = 2867
max = 2948

TAC 26.0 gr
mean = 2965
standard dev = 15.3
min = 2927
max = 2992

According to this link from ar15.com, M855 should clock in at 2974 fps from a 16" barrel, so I've been pretty happy with the results from the 26.0 gr load.

jglenn
11-25-08, 06:46
thanks for your input


I also have some of the same 62s . Too bad they are out now...Did get some of the New IMI 223 and 308 brass from them the "day" they had it in stock. :D ..would buy more if they could get it.. very very nice stuff. ;)

ppro
11-27-08, 22:43
One of my favorite loads, is CCI S.R. primer, Lake City case, 25.3 grs. of TAC and a 69 gr Nosler match seated 2.255 . I have no adverse pressure signs across three different mil-spec chamber guns and it IS a very accurate load in all the guns tried. Two of my m-4's one in 9 twist and in my Sig 556 1/7 twist. Is running right at 3000 fps from the 16" barrels.

I have used lots of different powders in my AR loads over the years, but the Ramshot TAC is one of the better (for the use intended) I have run across.

I haven't checked dim light or no light muzzle flash though but then, you can still by good flash hiders so....

Paul

Damascus
11-28-08, 00:29
Anyone have any success using TAC and 69gr. Sierra Matchkings? My 1/9" twist S&W loves the 69 SMK's better than any other bullet, so that's all I use now - and have been sticking mainly with Reloder 15 for it, but since it's such a slow burning powder, I am having to really compress the powder when I seat the bullet, I'd like to start trying some TAC, as that should give me the same velocity with less grains of powder. I do have some TAC, and have loaded up some rounds @24 gr. w/ CCI SR Magnum primers just as a starting point, and it's extremely accurate, but I'd like to have an accurate load thats around 2900 fps - anyone getting anything like that? (by "accurate" I mean less than .75 MOA - my rifle is approaching .5 MOA on it's favorite RL15/69 SMK load).
I also tried some H335, but never could get accuracy below .8 MOA using the 69 SMK's, a bit too fast I suppose.. but - all rifles are different and like different loads.. so who knows...

ppro
11-29-08, 00:22
I use the same load noted above, only with a 69 Sierra and bullet seated farther out, as my long range load in my .223 bolt gun, and it IS a long range tack driver. Sub 1/2 inch out of the bolt gun and my gas guns (on a good day, run 1/2 to 3/4 without a problem. I haven't bothered with the Sierra, rather used the Nosler 69 for my M-4's as for the use intended, fangibility of the Nosler with it's J-4 jacket is better than the Sierra. Typical Sierra match bullets have a heavier jacket than J-4 jackets provide. The Sierra jacket is not what I want, for typical CQB applications, without a cannalure on the Sierra bullet to help upset. Nosler J-4 will upset more readily.

Don't be afraid to try different primers as this will often make more difference than you think. Try a speer br-2 primer, winchester and even the Remington, and before doing that, you might try running your charge a little higher, if no pressure signs showing. Use a chronograph.....

Closer tack driving accuracy is often different than long range accuracy. for the long range, you need to pay attention to your standard deviation and extreme spread......you need the chronograph to do that. Plus differences in primer performance is often indicated by s.d. and e.s. so again,,,,,use the chronograph.

good luck

Paul

vicious_cb
07-18-10, 01:47
What charge are people using with their 75gr or 77gr loads?

shootist~
07-18-10, 11:49
What charge are people using with their 75gr or 77gr loads?

I've settled on the 77 SMK (/w cannelure) over 23.7 - 23.8 grains of TAC with a Rem 7 1/2 primer for my 18" Noveske SPR barrel. This rifle/load is more accurate than I am and is working well at ranges considered about maximum for an AR15 - which was my goal.

Chronograph results at a slightly lower charge of 23.6 grains:

18" SS SPR - 2,695 fps (8 shot string)
16" N4 Light - 2,583 fps (5 shot string)
ETA: Temp was 74*F

A good day, especially for the trigger puller, resulted in this 5 shot, 5.5" group on steel at my club's maximum range of 700 Meters. Steel is an IPSC C Zone (12x18").

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4800434994_e75d456e5c.jpg

archad
07-18-10, 14:00
Got this off another site 5.56mm pressure loads with TAC
Caliber: 5.56mmx45NATO. (.223 Remington)

Pressure spec: MIL <58700 Psi “Case mouth” = <62000 Psi chamber

Barrel length: 20” (For 16” barrel reduce velocities by 5 to 6% ca 150 Fps)

Powder: Ramshot – TAC.

Bullet weight: 55 grain FMJ (M-193).

Start load: 25.0 grains (2925 – 3025 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 27.8 grains (3300 – 3400 Ft/p/sec). <62000 Psi

Bullet weight: 62 grain FMJ (M-855).

Start load: 24.0 grains (2850 – 2950 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 26.7 grains (3100 – 3200 Ft/p/sec). <62000 Psi

Bullet weight: 68 grain HP.

Start load: 23.5 grains (2750 – 2850 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 26.2 grains (3075 – 3175 Ft/p/sec). <62000 Psi

Bullet weight: 77 grain HP.

Start load: 22.1 grains (2525 – 2625 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 24.5 grains (2750 – 2850 Ft/p/sec). <62000

Chris Rhines
07-18-10, 17:48
I load 24.0 grains of TAC under a 77gr. SMK, Lake City brass, and Wolf primers.

I actually ran a few rounds over the chrono just yesterday. 16" BCM 410SS Reece barrel, 92 degF, 73% RH, ~700ft. ASL.

2746
2745
2754
2733
2758
2739
2768
2785
2765
2744

2753 fps average with 52 fps extreme spread, SD of 15. I was honestly a little surprised at how hot this load turned out, but the cases showed no pressure sign. I'll continue running with it. Please, please, do not try to duplicate this load out of the box.

This load proved very accurate as well, holding just under 1.5MOA out to 400 yards in my rifle, Trijicon ACOG TA-11, bipod and rear bag.

-C

vicious_cb
07-19-10, 05:39
Nice, looks like that load is hotter than SAAMI spec but well within NATO spec.

m4fun
07-20-10, 23:39
75gr HPBT – 23.6 TAC – Mixed LC Headcases, CCI 400 primers
1/8 twist stainless White Oak Barrel, DD rifle length Omega FF, Mostly Sunny, 70 degrees
Ave 2674
High 2692
Low 2658
ED 34.6
SD 13.6
AD 10.1
1 2680
2 2664
3 2658
4 2674
5 2692

Not truly vetted but a 1.1" group at 100m

TWR
07-24-10, 12:24
This is not meant to be scientific or anything, just showing results from different cases and rifles/chambers.

7-24-10 (85*) TAC powder, CCI #41 primers 77 gr bullets Sierra and Nosler. Guns, 18" Noveske intermediate gas, Match Mod 0 chamber. 17" Kreiger midlength, Wylde chamber.

17"
24 gr SMK Rem case = 2651 fps avg
24.5 gr SMK Rem case = 2673 fps avg
24 gr NCC Rem case = 2687 fps avg
24.5 gr NCC Rem case = 2726 fps avg (ejector marks)
24 gr SMK WW case = 2657 fps avg
24.5 gr SMK WW case =2749 fps and stuck the case, just one shot.

18"
24 gr SMK Rem case = 2661 fps avg
24.5 gr SMK Rem case = 2732 fps avg
24 gr NCC Rem case = 2701 fps avg
24.5 gr NCC Rem case = 2786 fps avg (no ejector marks)
24 gr SMK WW case = 2672 fps avg
24.5 gr SMK WW case = 2761 fps avg, (ejector marks).

I've gotten higher readings on another chrono but this is relevent to today. Each gun and component is different so remember to work up for your gun and work to find pressure not velocity! I'm gonna stick with 24 grs as it works with all 4 guns, all temps and all components. It's also very accurate. Nosler bullets yield higher velocity but accuracy was just slightly better with Sierras in both guns.

archad
07-24-10, 12:27
What how tight was your 10 shot groups with your Noveske thanks

TWR
07-24-10, 12:45
If you're referring to me, I never shoot for accuracy while chronograpghing. My 5 shot groups run around .750" at 100 yards and 1.5" at 200 yards. Though I have shot a5 shot 2" group at 300 once.

My chrono readings today were 3 shot averages, I usually shoot 5 for average, like I said nothing scientific...

davestarbuck
08-09-10, 17:56
I've settled on 24.5 gr as my only load for TAC. I only load 55 gr (montana gold) for practice and 77 gr SMK/ W cannelure, for self defense type loads. I'm lazy and I've got my powder measure set to this charge.

I've never chrono'ed the 55 gr load, but the SMK load is moving out of my WOA 18 SPR w/ Wylde chamber at an average of 2730 FPS. Accuracy at 100 yards is 1.1 MOA, at 200 yards it's 0.9 MOA. I get 1.5 MOA at 200 yards with my 16" BCM carbine with Aimpoint.

I get slightly flattened primers but no swipes or exessive extractor marks with either gun....

I've never bench tested the 55 gr load, but I've used it to good effect in "action rifle" matches out to 250 yards or so, using the carbine. Next year I'll be taking some more classes finally, so I'll need to get my butt in front of the 550 soon and crank some out..

-dave

TWR
08-09-10, 20:31
I switched to LC brass and went at it again with the 77 SMK's and TAC, CCI #41 primers. Same temp but lower humidity yielded a bit more velocity on the chrono, or something did anyway.

Used my 17" Kreiger since it's the least pressure tolerant AR I have.

24 grs = 2712 fps 5 shot avg.
24.3 grs = 2732 fps 5 shot avg.
24.5 grs = 2766 fps 5 shot avg.

I settled on 24.3 for now simply due to the nice little 1/2" or so group and at 24.5 I was getting ejector marks.

jbsmwd
08-10-10, 19:28
Is TAC temperature sensitive?

TWR
08-10-10, 23:24
Not from what I've seen.

Kevin_J
08-11-10, 14:14
I had a rifle print a 3-shot 100 yard group that measured in the 4's using 23.6 of Tac under a 77grn SMK, Rem BR primers fired from a 18.5" LW50 blank, Wylde chambered rifle. Still one of the best groups to date.

Boomer
08-12-10, 00:28
I e-mailed Ramshot about temperature sensitivity with TAC, especially since its a ball powder and received this response:

We test the powder at -40F and +140F and at these extreme levels the deviation is less than 3%.
So for your conditions it will at most be 1.0 to 1.5%

Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders

I've tested TAC from just under 20 F. to about 100 F. and have had very little deviation.

hitman1012
08-12-10, 08:31
I use 24 gr. of TAC and 77 SMK or 75 Hor. and it is always good in a wide range of weapons. I have worked up to 24.8 gr and 75 Hor and this mirrors the Hornady T2 5.56 load in fps on my crono. It is way over max though, so work up slow if you wanna try some hotter loads.

Jitterbug
01-14-11, 18:57
Lots of good info on TAC....Thanks!

goneballistic
01-26-11, 23:04
I run between 24.5 and 25 gr in the rifles I load it for. one is a blaster/self defense gun other is a 20" match barrel RRA trigger/FF tube gun. I really like TAC, good powder and meters easily.

Tigereye
03-29-11, 20:18
I worked up some Hornady 55 gr FMJBT bullets with 24.5gr of Tac and Wolf SRM primers. Velocities of 2650 to 2690 and 25yd 5 shot groups that you can cover with a nickel. This is fun! You guys are great.

markm
03-30-11, 08:44
I worked up some Hornady 55 gr FMJBT bullets with 24.5gr of Tac and Wolf SRM primers. Velocities of 2650 to 2690 and 25yd 5 shot groups that you can cover with a nickel. This is fun! You guys are great.

What barrel length???

boltcatch
03-30-11, 17:20
I wasn't doing so hot with my 75gr OTM handloads before. I've since built a new upper with a 16" midlength Bravo Co. BFH barrel.

Tried the same load with 23.4 grains of TAC, Wolf SRM primers and 75gr OTM projectiles both with and without cannelure. Muzzle velocity of about 2550 w/ 16" barrel.

My groups closed right on up to be on par with my 55gr handloads. All i have on hand right now are irons and my Aimpoint, but whenever I get out to shoot again I'll try to shoot some 10 round groups at 100yd/200yd and post them up along with some new chrono data.

Tigereye
03-30-11, 22:09
Mark,
I was shooting a DD M4 w/ 16" bbl.
Eric

markm
03-31-11, 08:09
Thanks. It gives readers a better reference point when they know the barrel length.

shootist~
03-31-11, 08:31
Thanks. It gives readers a better reference point when they know the barrel length.

The primer used and especially the specific barrel can make a huge difference in velocity. For reference, my 55 Hornady FMJBT load at 24.6 TAC with Rem 7 1/2 primers run 2,952 fps in an 18" Noveske SPR barrel.

30 cal slut
06-14-11, 12:59
Anyone work up an M193 equivalent with TAC?

archad
06-21-11, 17:17
Here you are.

Straight From Ramshot Via Email

We suggest the following.
Caliber: 5.56mmx45NATO. (.223 Remington)
Pressure spec: MIL <58700 Psi “Case mouth” = <62000 Psi chamber = CIP International <4300bar/62350psi
Barrel length: 20” (For 16” barrel reduce velocities by 5 to 6% ca 150 Fps)
Powder: Ramshot – TAC.
Bullet weight: 55 grain FMJ (M-193).
Start load: 24.7grains (2925 – 3025 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 27.4 grains (3300 – 3400 Ft/p/sec). <62000 Psi
Bullet weight: 62 grain FMJ (M-855).
Start load: 23.2 grains (2850 – 2950 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 26.0 grains (3100 – 3200 Ft/p/sec). <62000 Psi
NOTES:
It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.
2. If at all possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.


Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders
Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: johan@ramshot.com
Western Powders Inc –– Miles City – Montana.
COMPANY WEBSITES/PRODUCTS:

30 cal slut
06-21-11, 19:04
thanks! i called western powders and spoke to a ballistician (dude with an english accent) .... he referred me to the website.

p.s.

This past weekend,

Lake city 55 gr FMJBT
CCI military primer
26.0 grains TAC
Various brass
COAL = 2.25 inches

got me about 3,050 fps and so-so groups out of a BCM middy.

Temp was about 80 degrees.

SteadyUp
06-21-11, 19:40
thanks! i called western powders and spoke to a ballistician (dude with an english accent) .... he referred me to the website.

p.s.

This past weekend,

Lake city 55 gr FMJBT
CCI military primer
26.0 grains TAC
Various brass
COAL = 2.25 inches

got me about 3,050 fps and so-so groups out of a BCM middy.

Temp was about 80 degrees.

What was the size of your groups (ballpark idea)? I've tried the same load out a 16" BCM middy as well, and I've noticed that the groups aren't as good as the "M4C Load" (24.5gr TAC).

Obviously I'm not looking for one hole accuracy; just trying to duplicate XM193.

30 cal slut
06-22-11, 07:17
What was the size of your groups (ballpark idea)? I've tried the same load out a 16" BCM middy as well, and I've noticed that the groups aren't as good as the "M4C Load" (24.5gr TAC).

Obviously I'm not looking for one hole accuracy; just trying to duplicate XM193.

I didn't bother to measure, they were subjectively wider. This aforementioned session was somewhat hasty and conducted with an Aimpoint Micro with no magnification and I only had 30 minutes to squeeze it in.

They were all in the black of a 5.5 inch circle at 100 yards. Elevation wasn't terribly bad vs. my M193 reference zero - however, POI was a few inches to the right of my reference zero with some fairly wide dispersion.

I'm going to develop a range of powder varieties (Varget, TAC, and for shits & giggles some leftover IMR4064) and charges and weigh the bullets before heading out, and use an 8x rifle scope zeroed at 100 yards with M193 as a reference point.

26 grains of TAC is at the upper end of the loading range for 55 gr FMJBT - I'll start 5-10% lower and work up to see if this improves groups.

Vs. extruded powders, I'm finding TAC to be a little harder to work with (up until recently I've been exclusively a low-volume 7.62 loader, Mr. Giraud changed all that LOL). While it meters reasonably well, the flaky goodness can work against you in a plastic drop tube and funnel (static). My go-to funnel is a Satern 22 caliber funnel - the body is made of aluminum while the nozzle is brass. A small amount of TAC consistently gets stuck on the seam between the aluminum and brass and that tends to throw my charges off by about 0.1 grains. I have to use my fingers or a small watercolor paintbrush to get that powder down the funnel.

I'm still trying to clarify in my head what I'm trying to accomplish here ... get an economically reasonable load (for training) that behaves like M193 @ 100 yards, or get a load that behaves like M193, period. I'm not really sure both are one and the same.

SteadyUp
06-22-11, 09:48
I'm still trying to clarify in my head what I'm trying to accomplish here ... get an economically reasonable load (for training) that behaves like M193 @ 100 yards, or get a load that behaves like M193, period. I'm not really sure both are one and the same.

This sums up where I'm at, period. And I'm not sure how to proceed either.

Jitterbug
06-22-11, 11:00
I just use a mild 55 grain FMJ for practice, I prefer the Hornady due to it's accuracy, the Hornady 55 gr. SP when the FMJ is not available.

I'm using 24.2 grains of TAC, I know it's not approaching 5.56 velocity, nor do I want it to, my reasoning is that it I get longer case life and less were and tear on the gun, allowing me to practice more for less. Recoil or the lack thereof really isn't a concern with .223/5.56. I consider the difference negligible between the two.

This load will give me a consistent 1.25" 10 shot group off a bench at 100 yards, I use it in both my 16" BCM SS410 Midlength and 16" RR A4 SS, with excellent results from either bullet.

My SHTF load in 55 grain is a SGK using 25.2 grains of TAC, however according to Sierra #5 this can be brought into 5.56 territory with 26.3 grains...I'm still working on the load and point of impact isn't that far off from POA with the "practice" load, at least under 150 yards.

It's all a work in progress...so I may change my SHTF load criteria and "warm" it up a bit, but so far I'm happy with my solution for a inexpensive, reliable, accurate, practice load, that will duplicate what I think is a reasonable SHTF load.

The above results were obtained with a Hornady 55 gr, FMJBT w/c, CCI-450, mixed once fired brass trimmed to 1.750", COL is 2.220".

For the 55 grain SGK load I use once fired L.C. brass trimmed to 1.750, CCI-450, COL is 2.250"

The Sierra #5 is down loadable for free and has 5.56 data, as always what works in my guns may not work in yours, so please exercise your own due diligence, using load data I've provided may blow you and your guns up.

Pilgrim
09-05-11, 16:12
This thread has been a big help, thanks to all. My first try with Tac powder.

-23.6 GR of Tac

-Nosler brass

-Hornady 68 GR BTHP

-CCI BR4 primer

Yielded a 2580 fps average out of a 16" Barreled LMT.

Unable to check for accuracy today due to the storm.

akturbo
09-05-11, 20:19
How does the LOT to LOT consistency run with TAC

thanks

Bob

shootist~
09-05-11, 21:06
In at least three different lots: Five 1 pounders, and a two or three different lots of 8 pounders and I have not seen any noticeable differences with my 77 gr SMK load. Just my perception since I've never chronographed two lots side-beside.

I do see a some differences at long range due to atmospheric differences - from day to day as well as seasonal/temp changes, but that's normal.

Kill By Number
09-05-11, 23:47
Boltcatch, I noticed you mentioned magnum primers a couple of times with TAC. I have found switching from cci400 to the magnum 450 primers increased my group sizes by 2-3+ inches at 100 yards. I thought my scope had come loose and even switched scopes because I didn't think a primer could have such an effect but it seem to be a no no with my LMT MRP. Try the regular small rifle primers for better accuracy. The odd thing is with the magnum primers my Sd and extreme spread were cut in half over the chrono so I assumed They would shoot better groups but not so far.

markm
09-06-11, 08:26
How does the LOT to LOT consistency run with TAC

thanks

Bob

I had to adjust my 550b's powder measure by a pretty good amount when I re-ordered 8 lbs of TAC a few years back.