Another Newbie

[sportyr1200]

Hey guys,

Nice weapons forum you have going on here. Not many arm chair commandos and some really great information.

I have grown up with and shot since I was 3 years old and have recently gotten into IDPA at the ripe age of 25. I found this site from searching for AR info b/c I am a big personal defense advocate and I wanted to build an AR platform home defense/IDPA/class rifle. My dad has several colts and with being a police officer he or I can get the M&P series rifles at a large discount. With that I thought that $1000 is still a lot of money and felt that I could do a little better myself so here I am. I have been lurking around for about a week here and have a few questions if you guys dont mind. I will try to make this different from normal newbie questions.

With my $1000 I thought of buying all LMT upper/lower and BCG and then adding on the regular butt stock and carbine grips until I can afford something a little flashier. Of course iron sights will be on there from the beginning but I am running into issues that I am not familiar with. I have seen that some on here are using mid length rifles vs. the carbine or M4 length and I do not know the benefits of one vs the other. Also some on here have built with the Sabre defense uppers and they look nice but I know nothing of them.

I have found that I want several things:

1. 16' length barrel
2. M4 feed ramps (not sure if I NEED them?)
3. MP tested BCG
4. strong robust barrel 1:7 is preferable for home defense rounds.

A friend of mine is saying that I should use all RRA parts and build from there but on here there is so much rave over LMT...etc. and I dont know if I am really getting what I am paying for with RRA since there barrels are not chrome lined.

The rifle I end up with will be Home Defense/IDPA/Class rifle so reliability is the most important, not 1' group at 100yds. I have taken several courses through Trident Concepts and am planning on taking this rifle through the carbine course.

I guess my questions are if you had $1k would you build or buy a complete. I just want to start with the best Upper / Lower / BCG that I can while creating the most robust and parts swappable rifle. This will be the only one I can buy for a while since I just bought a Glock 34, Beneli Super 90 M1, and a DS Arms FAL.

Thanks guys.

And yes I have looked at G&R tactical and it is swaying me heavily towards LMT.

Again, thank you for your suggestions or directional advice.

[HES]

with your requirements and a budget of $1000.00 then if I was looking for an off the rifle I'd pick up an ADS or Charles Daly from G&R tactical. Or you can build an LMT through G&R. Just my two cents.

[sportyr1200]

with your requirements and a budget of $1000.00 then if I was looking for an off the rifle I'd pick up an ADS or Charles Daly from G&R tactical. Or you can build an LMT through G&R. Just my two cents.

I think that is what I was looking at...going the build route but skipping the fancy stocks and seal, delta, etc stuff. I like it simply and bullet proof.

Is there anything else that you guys can think of? RRA lower with an LMT upper? RRA lower with Sabre defense upper? What about chrome lined barrels vs. non lined.

Also I cannot get the search button to work...does it work for you guys?

[C4IGrant]

I would generally pass on most anything RRA (less their stripped lowers).

Buy a CD LEM4, ADS or LMT.


C4

[Avenger29]

I'd go with LMT or Charles Daly, even if you have to go a bit over your budget. I'd get the LMT with the standard carbine stock- the SOPMOD stock is $200. If you buy the upper and lower seperatly, that cuts out the federal excise tax.

Look at Sabre Defense, too. And the Sully SLR-15 (http://www.slr15.com)

I chose to go with the LMT upper and lower. I bought the lower last week. I've got the upper on layaway. LMT makes a rifle that just feels like high quality. It'll be a bit over 1K once I get it fitted out with the rear sight and such.

I used to be all gung ho for RRA. And, if I had begun my purchase 4 months ago, I would have went with RRA. But, fortunately, I did more research and found out how RRA wasn't so great...

[sportyr1200]

What about the differences between the carbine length and the Mid length uppers? Is there a difference in the reliability of the gas systems or is it just the length between the sights?

[Jay Cunningham]

What about the differences between the carbine length and the Mid length uppers? Is there a difference in the reliability of the gas systems or is it just the length between the sights?

The mid-length is a more reliable gas system and has a milder recoil.

[Avenger29]

The mid-length is a more reliable gas system and has a milder recoil.

Yep. The midlength gas system is a better match for 16" barrels. Fitting rails to it isn't going to be a problem, as most rail systems are available in midlength. Plus, it looks better than having carbine length handguards and that long barrel sticking out.

So, go with midlength if you can. It'll be better in the long run.

But, even if you go with a carbine length gas system, it can be changed to a mid or rifle length later by rebarreling...

CMMG also makes a 16 inch barrel with a rifle length gas system IIRC, and it supposedly works OK, but I still think midlength is the way to go.

[sportyr1200]

Yep. The midlength gas system is a better match for 16" barrels. Fitting rails to it isn't going to be a problem, as most rail systems are available in midlength. Plus, it looks better than having carbine length handguards and that long barrel sticking out.

So, go with midlength if you can. It'll be better in the long run.

But, even if you go with a carbine length gas system, it can be changed to a mid or rifle length later by rebarreling...

CMMG also makes a 16 inch barrel with a rifle length gas system IIRC, and it supposedly works OK, but I still think midlength is the way to go.

Thanks!

I will look into that if it comes down to it. I dont think that LMT makes a Mid length. All I am finding is Carbine.

[Avenger29]

Well, LMT only makes carbine uppers in the standard configuration, to the best of my knowledge.

Now, I don't know what they do with their monolithic rail platform- that's out of my price/interest/knowledge range at the moment. I don't see the benefits of the MRP for my uses and budget.

[A_shizzle]

Ok im not incredibly knowledgeable or claim to be an expert on ARs but im kinda in the same boat as you.. I have an AR already but am hopfully about to begin aquiring parts for a new one.. ive decided to go the LMT carbine 16in upper. those run about 485 on most sites that ive seen.. but i was not sure on my lower for awhile. i was lookin at goin LMT for that as well but from my understanding any mil spec lower will do and your better off putting that extra money youd spend on a more expensive lower towards optics etc... I did alot of research and ive decided to use Anvil Arms for my lower.. http://www.anvilarms.com/.. ive never seen one in person but have heard nothin but good about them. Excellent quality and superb customer service. Im gana get the complete lower receiver with the callapsable stock for just 250.. not a bad deal.. then the bolt carrier group and BUIS will set you back around another 250 give or take alittle but the whole setup for around 1000 bucks.. anyways just my 2cents. Good luck.

[98z28]

I am 99% sure that LMT's 16" MRP is a midlength gas system. I have not looked up the stats, but I handled a buddy's MRP a couple weeks ago and it definitely seemed longer than the carbine gas system. I recall a post here a while back that confirmed the 16" MRP is a midlegth, but I can't seem to find it? In any case, it is way out of the OP's price range.

For $1k or under, ADS, CD and a self built LMT are the prescription. You are stuck with a carbine gas system with those brands though (at your price point). I wonder about a 1/7 middy 16" Sabre upper on a cheaper lower though? No need for Crane o-rings or h-buffers. I bet you could put one together for around $1k. Now I have to go looking...:)

[sportyr1200]

I am 99% sure that LMT's 16" MRP is a midlength gas system. I have not looked up the stats, but I handled a buddy's MRP a couple weeks ago and it definitely seemed longer than the carbine gas system. I recall a post here a while back that confirmed the 16" MRP is a midlegth, but I can't seem to find it? In any case, it is way out of the OP's price range.

For $1k or under, ADS, CD and a self built LMT are the prescription. You are stuck with a carbine gas system with those brands though (at your price point). I wonder about a 1/7 middy 16" Sabre upper on a cheaper lower though? No need for Crane o-rings or h-buffers. I bet you could put one together for around $1k. Now I have to go looking...:)

Is there no need for the h buffer or reliability package with the mid length gas system?

I have looked at the sabre defense mid length and I like it but for some reason a full LMT system just gets my blood going.

[Robb Jensen]

Is there no need for the h buffer or reliability package with the mid length gas system?

I have looked at the sabre defense mid length and I like it but for some reason a full LMT system just gets my blood going.

Midlengths run fine with CAR weight buffers (lighter than H buffers).

[Charles Daly]

Charles Daly Defense will have 2 middys ready in 2 months.

One will be a lightweight with a 14.5" (with perm attached phantom) "pencil" A1 profile barrel with 4150 and a 1X7 twist. The other will be with a 16" govt profile, also 4150 and 1X7.

If you can wait, this will be just what you're looking for!

[C4IGrant]

Is there no need for the h buffer or reliability package with the mid length gas system?

I have looked at the sabre defense mid length and I like it but for some reason a full LMT system just gets my blood going.

I run H buffers in my middy's, but you do not have too. I would generally say that it is better to upgrade the buffer spring and keep the car buffer (as springs wear out pretty quick).

For the extractor, I would use a black extractor in sert, 4 coil spring and a Crane O-Ring.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Ok im not incredibly knowledgeable or claim to be an expert on ARs but im kinda in the same boat as you.. I have an AR already but am hopfully about to begin aquiring parts for a new one.. ive decided to go the LMT carbine 16in upper. those run about 485 on most sites that ive seen.. but i was not sure on my lower for awhile. i was lookin at goin LMT for that as well but from my understanding any mil spec lower will do and your better off putting that extra money youd spend on a more expensive lower towards optics etc... I did alot of research and ive decided to use Anvil Arms for my lower.. http://www.anvilarms.com/.. ive never seen one in person but have heard nothin but good about them. Excellent quality and superb customer service. Im gana get the complete lower receiver with the callapsable stock for just 250.. not a bad deal.. then the bolt carrier group and BUIS will set you back around another 250 give or take alittle but the whole setup for around 1000 bucks.. anyways just my 2cents. Good luck.

There is more to a quality lower than just the receiver itself. The internals are the most important part. When you buy an LMT lower, you are getting some of the very best LPK's on the market today.


C4

[sportyr1200]

I run H buffers in my middy's, but you do not have too. I would generally say that it is better to upgrade the buffer spring and keep the car buffer (as springs wear out pretty quick).

For the extractor, I would use a black extractor in sert, 4 coil spring and a Crane O-Ring.


C4

With that in mind are there really that many issues with the AR's going down in a fight? I admit that I am not familiar with the AR system but I have a glock (12000 + rounds) that has been through 3 handgun classes and a beneli (5000 rounds) that has been through two and both without any hicups. It just seems odd to me that these AR's need that much attention to ensure reliability. Maybe I am just looking at it wrong...or do I need to carry a parts kit with me every where?

[C4IGrant]

With that in mind are there really that many issues with the AR's going down in a fight? I admit that I am not familiar with the AR system but I have a glock (12000 + rounds) that has been through 3 handgun classes and a beneli (5000 rounds) that has been through two and both without any hicups. It just seems odd to me that these AR's need that much attention to ensure reliability. Maybe I am just looking at it wrong...or do I need to carry a parts kit with me every where?


AR's are one of the most unreliable weapons made (next to the 1911). When I say that, I am comparing the AR15 against the AK and the 1911 against say a Glock 17.

The weak link in the AR platform is the magazine. These are generally the cause of about 50% of the malfunctions. The other 30% of failures are linked directly to either lack of lube or crappy ammo. The final 10% of failures are due to stupid user tricks.

By buying quality components (LMT, Colt, BCM, Noveske, etc) you are cutting down your failure rate. Using quality mags (like Mapgul or Lancer) and properly lubing your weapon you are further cutting down the possibility of malfunctions.


C4

[sportyr1200]

AR's are one of the most unreliable weapons made (next to the 1911). When I say that, I am comparing the AR15 against the AK and the 1911 against say a Glock 17.

The weak link in the AR platform is the magazine. These are generally the cause of about 50% of the malfunctions. The other 30% of failures are linked directly to either lack of lube or crappy ammo. The final 10% of failures are due to stupid user tricks.

By buying quality components (LMT, Colt, BCM, Noveske, etc) you are cutting down your failure rate. Using quality mags (like Mapgul or Lancer) and properly lubing your weapon you are further cutting down the possibility of malfunctions.


C4

So basically as long as I keep the weapon in proper running order and dont use lower quality parts then it will function the same as any other top weapons platform should when treated the same. Ok I feel a little relieved on the upcoming investment.

Thanks for your reply. I am sure this is like teaching kindergarten for you.